Eliminating Butlers - Spoke to Celebrity. Here is conversation.

[chisoxfan]

18 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

It seems MoveUp is a significant driver behind today's suite prices. It's put them in an ideal place. Those who are willing to pay $1,200+ a night for a Sky Suite are welcomed to it, the leftover cabins are open for MoveUps generating on average an extra of at least $2,000 in revenue for a single move from non-Retreat to Retreat. The other sub sequential moves that are triggered bring in even more revenue, they don't have to provide premium drinks or premium Wifi for the winning bids, they don't have to pay travel agencies commission on the inflated cruise fare and up until recently they didn't have to kick in the $600+ in obc. 

 

I don't pay that much attention but how many cruises today go out with any open Retreat cabins? 

We used move up on a 10 night APEX and it worked out great partially because the itinerary changed completely and we went from port intensive to a 'lets hang at the pool and enjoy the nice weather'. 

We also have a SS booked for Ascent next month because it was a 'relatively' good deal. Personally I think the move up program diminishes the suite value.. at some point people are going to feel ripped off to pay 1200 plus a night for SS (now without OBC, Grats, or Butler)  knowing that many in the now 'filled to capacity' lounge, Luminae, and Pool area are paying half price.  Kind of like  flying Business class where you cough up full fare  where almost nobody pays full tilt. 

Additionally, for us,  the move up isn't an attractive option to take a flyer on since one would be confined to IV on the new ships if you do not win.

Looking forward to our Retreat cruise but have the sinking feeling this will be our last on X for a long while, a shame since it was our go to line for years. Have some HAL cruises booked and their Club Orange is an interesting and value added concept. Also agree with comments that MSC Yacht Club is a strong value and very equivalent to Retreat.  Our cruise needs haven't changed much but X seemingly has moved away from them. JMHO

[jagoffee]

On 12/29/2023 at 8:25 AM, deliver42 said:

By not reducing the price, it means that all suites have a hefty price increase.

Difficult to know for sure that no prices with the removal of the gratuities from the AI.

I am seeing inflated prices on all of my purchases.

[terrydtx]

55 minutes ago, RichYak said:

I completely disagree. What they know in their corporate mind is that this has lowered costs, full stop. What you were told on the call was read directly from the Miami spin script. They caller doesn't believe the spin, they just want to keep their job.

 

How may ways can they gaslight their customers? $2 cookies are nostalgic. The Retreat team is better than a butler. IVs are balcony cabins. Guests don't want gratuities in AI. Guests asked for upcharge items in the MDR. I could go on.

I never said that what is in the corporate minds is accurate just what they want us to believe. I agree with all of your points 100%. Every day Celebrity gets more and more Royalized all in the name of more profits, to hell with our loyal customers we will replace them all.

 

One other thing I am noticing, there seems to be far fewer Celebrity cheerleaders in this forum that in the past would defend Celebrity no matter what they did or proposed.  The most loyal of us here are seeing the light and many have or will be jumping ship sooner than later.

Edited December 30, 2023 by terrydtx

[hcat]

1 hour ago, chisoxfan said:

We used move up on a 10 night APEX and it worked out great partially because the itinerary changed completely and we went from port intensive to a 'lets hang at the pool and enjoy the nice weather'. 

We also have a SS booked for Ascent next month because it was a 'relatively' good deal. Personally I think the move up program diminishes the suite value.. at some point people are going to feel ripped off to pay 1200 plus a night for SS (now without OBC, Grats, or Butler)  knowing that many in the now 'filled to capacity' lounge, Luminae, and Pool area are paying half price.  Kind of like  flying Business class where you cough up full fare  where almost nobody pays full tilt. 

Additionally, for us,  the move up isn't an attractive option to take a flyer on since one would be confined to IV on the new ships if you do not win.

Looking forward to our Retreat cruise but have the sinking feeling this will be our last on X for a long while, a shame since it was our go to line for years. Have some HAL cruises booked and their Club Orange is an interesting and value added concept. Also agree with comments that MSC Yacht Club is a strong value and very equivalent to Retreat.  Our cruise needs haven't changed much but X seemingly has moved away from them. JMHO

the move up game was the Royal approach for a long time.. On  many roll calls, some of the cruisers obsessed on  " the move up fairy"..

 

Big  upgrades were offered  last minute to D + cruisers at no cost, making other cabins available for  sale at market rate.  Those who playd the game, discussed  all their past upgrades.

 

I recall being at one roll call dinner night before sailaway where someone " got the call"  and  he went totally nutso!

 

Seems Celeb has refined this to a profitable bid system which adds to the suite population..most of whom paid big bucks!   We always pick a room and stick with it!

Edited December 30, 2023 by hcat

[Oceangoer2]

2 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

Hardly. I just priced out a new sandwich at a nearby Subway and it came to $ 19.99 plus tax.

Of course YMMV.

Guess my 😉didn't register....Subway sandwiches are known to be longgggg ones...ergo a 'stretch'.  Too subtle.

[C4HCG]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

One other thing I am noticing, there seems to be far fewer Celebrity cheerleaders in this forum that in the past would defend Celebrity no matter what they did or proposed.  The most loyal of us here are seeing the light and many have or will be jumping ship sooner than later.

I have been called a cheerleader but never once defended Celebrity on the butler issue as never sailed in suites, no intention of doing, so none of my business. I post here far less than before because I was boring myself and no doubt others with repeat posts on repeat threads, no other reason than that. Maybe other cheerleaders are doing the same as me.

[weregoingcruising]

Psycotherapy may help some constant unhappy suite guests that keep posting on this topic.

27 minutes ago, C4HCG said:

I have been called a cheerleader but never once defended Celebrity on the butler issue as never sailed in suites, no intention of doing, so none of my business. I post here far less than before because I was boring myself and no doubt others with repeat posts on repeat threads, no other reason than that. Maybe other cheerleaders are doing the same as me.

 

[Joker54]

5 hours ago, RichYak said:

I completely disagree. What they know in their corporate mind is that this has lowered costs, full stop. What you were told on the call was read directly from the Miami spin script. They caller doesn't believe the spin, they just want to keep their job.

 

How may ways can they gaslight their customers? $2 cookies are nostalgic. The Retreat team is better than a butler. IVs are balcony cabins. Guests don't want gratuities in AI. Guests asked for upcharge items in the MDR. I could go on.

Actually LHB responded to an email inquiry stating that the new butler system was working very well and that if it needed to be tweaked that I had her commitment to do so……..

 

of course she could have been reading a script from the CEO……

[calicakes]

6 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

Hardly. I just priced out a new sandwich at a nearby Subway and it came to $ 19.99 plus tax.

Of course YMMV.

That is crazy.  I just bought a 6' for 4.99 with a coupon.  The footlongs with a coupon were 7.99.  That is just the basic sandwich, not the new " fancy" sandwiches.  The bread still sucks. 

[Joker54]

1 hour ago, weregoingcruising said:

Psycotherapy may help some constant unhappy suite guests that keep posting on this topic.

 

Or those who continue to read a thread they think should no longer exist………..

[phoenix_dream]

6 hours ago, terrydtx said:

The problem is in Celebrity's corporate mind they believe the Butler Team is providing the same level or better service than before the change, so they see no reason to reduce the auto grats. That was what was basically told to me in the follow-up phone call I got from my email before our Apex cruise.

I'm not sure they believe that, but they definitely are trying to sell it as such!  Which of course it isn't.

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, terrydtx said:

I never said that what is in the corporate minds is accurate just what they want us to believe. I agree with all of your points 100%. Every day Celebrity gets more and more Royalized all in the name of more profits, to hell with our loyal customers we will replace them all.

 

One other thing I am noticing, there seems to be far fewer Celebrity cheerleaders in this forum that in the past would defend Celebrity no matter what they did or proposed.  The most loyal of us here are seeing the light and many have or will be jumping ship sooner than later.

I've jumped to suites on Royal the next two cruises.  If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

[billc23]

21 hours ago, paulh84 said:

 

It seems MoveUp is a significant driver behind today's suite prices. It's put them in an ideal place. Those who are willing to pay $1,200+ a night for a Sky Suite are welcomed to it, the leftover cabins are open for MoveUps generating on average an extra of at least $2,000 in revenue for a single move from non-Retreat to Retreat. The other sub sequential moves that are triggered bring in even more revenue, they don't have to provide premium drinks or premium Wifi for the winning bids, they don't have to pay travel agencies commission on the inflated cruise fare and up until recently they didn't have to kick in the $600+ in obc. 

 

I don't pay that much attention but how many cruises today go out with any open Retreat cabins? 

The Retreat always seems to be full to me - even if the ship is at 30%! My question is: how many suites are filled by the move up program? I think quite a few but I have no hard data, just my observations. I think that Celebrity sells the suites to suckers like me. I book when the sailing is first released to get the cabin I want and it had always been that supply and demand would allow me to reprice at a lower rate most of the time. Recently, with the move up program in place, they will put the suites out at a high price and never lower the price so those who already booked cannot reprice. More profit for them. They even offer move up cabins that are not available in case of a last minute cancelation.

21 hours ago, chisoxfan said:

... Personally I think the move up program diminishes the suite value.. at some point people are going to feel ripped off to pay 1200 plus a night for SS (now without OBC, Grats, or Butler)  knowing that many in the now 'filled to capacity' lounge, Luminae, and Pool area are paying half price.  Kind of like  flying Business class where you cough up full fare  where almost nobody pays full tilt. 

 

Completely agree. The supply and demand pricing no longer exists. 

[OceanCruise]

3 hours ago, billc23 said:

The Retreat always seems to be full to me - even if the ship is at 30%! My question is: how many suites are filled by the move up program? I think quite a few but I have no hard data, just my observations. I think that Celebrity sells the suites to suckers like me. I book when the sailing is first released to get the cabin I want and it had always been that supply and demand would allow me to reprice at a lower rate most of the time. Recently, with the move up program in place, they will put the suites out at a high price and never lower the price so those who already booked cannot reprice. More profit for them. They even offer move up cabins that are not available in case of a last minute cancelation.

Completely agree. The supply and demand pricing no longer exists. 

My observation is that our March 2024 Silhouette cruise now has 6 Royal Suites available, several  Celebrity Suites, 2 Horizon Suites and a lot of Sky Suites also available before next week's final payment date. In my experience, this is very different than past cruises we have been on where most or all of suites were typically sold out at this point. 

[CHEZMARYLOU]

We like the upper level suites so booked when the itinerary we wanted opened up, usually at a good price and no hope of a reduced price before final payment. 

We cancelled a RS on Beyond for a March 2024 Panama Canal cruise in September because we needed to put a new roof on.  At the time we cancelled there were no suites available and our RS was apparently wait listed because it never showed up as available. 

Fast forward to today, there are a number of suites now available but still at high prices based on what we were paying.

I think the FCC have all been used up and people are doing a reality check with pricing.  I know we are because we also cancelled an open passages. We will be looking at other lines or all inclusives after our December 2024 cruise.

[buncosquad]

18 minutes ago, OceanCruise said:

My observation is that our March 2024 Silhouette cruise now has 6 Royal Suites available, several  Celebrity Suites, 2 Horizon Suites and a lot of Sky Suites also available before next week's final payment date. In my experience, this is very different than past cruises we have been on where most or all of suites were typically sold out at this point. 

Not here to argue anyone's preference for a given ship, but Celebrity's non-Edge class ships make their prior generations look woefully dated.

 

There appears also to be a significant change underway in cruise passenger demographic. Celebrity (and all lines, really) appears simply trying to get its footing.

 

I can see why those, like me, are willing to give Celebrity a try, and will only sail their newest class of ships. I just booked two more IC staterooms for 2025, now giving me 45+ days in 2025 in these staterooms. Totally worth every penny.

 

I should think the top suites would be a good price on these old(er) ships of theirs.

Edited December 31, 2023 by buncosquad

[CHEZMARYLOU]

2 minutes ago, buncosquad said:

 

I should think the top suites would be a good price on these old(er) ships of theirs.

Not necessarily. Looking at a PH on a Canadian cruise the price is more than we are paying on Beyond and no longer includes gratuities and OBC.

[buncosquad]

Just now, CHEZMARYLOU said:

Not necessarily. Looking at a PH on a Canadian cruise the price is more than we are paying on Beyond and no longer includes gratuities and OBC.

I would think itinerary and historical demand would also be a factor.

[Lena11033]

I'm booked for Constellation in a Celebrity suite, a sky suite currently is going for twice what I paid with less things included.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

1 minute ago, buncosquad said:

I would think itinerary and historical demand would also be a factor.

True, but our Beyond cruise is to the Panama Canal, not a full transit, and there are not very many cruises that Celebrity does there. 

[buncosquad]

2 minutes ago, CHEZMARYLOU said:

True, but our Beyond cruise is to the Panama Canal, not a full transit, and there are not very many cruises that Celebrity does there. 

That is the same itinerary for one of my 2025 11-night cruises on Beyond in an IC.

 

I also bought a southbound 19-night Transpacific in 2025 on Edge, again in an IC. However, for this one, I just checked and the cost is about $30k less (versus the Panama Canal 11-night on Beyond) for the two of us, yet the Transpacific has eight more nights.

 

I think the pricing is right. Cruise lines are adjusting their offerings and pricing, in spite of the complainers. Some will give up on Celebrity (if we go by accounts of so many on here who state they'll do so), but I think Celebrity is wise to move on to a different kind of traveler.

 

Similar to Cunard when you're in Queens Grill Q1 or Q2 staterooms. There were changes ever so slowly in this tier of traveler, as they work to attract replacements for the old guard who, frankly, can't travel quite so neatly.

 

For Celebrity, love those ICs and EVs.

 

In fact, just grabbed two more ICs for 2025 that are shorter itineraries, but the ICs (and EVs) are so worth it. Incredible memories.

[calicakes]

9 minutes ago, buncosquad said:

In fact, just grabbed two more ICs for 2025 that are shorter itineraries, but the ICs (and EVs) are so worth it. Incredible memories.

What is an IC? 

[buncosquad]

4 minutes ago, calicakes said:

What is an IC? 

Iconic Suite

[Joker54]

1 hour ago, buncosquad said:

 

I think the pricing is right. Cruise lines are adjusting their offerings and pricing, in spite of the complainers. Some will give up on Celebrity (if we go by accounts of so many on here who state they'll do so), but I think Celebrity is wise to move on to a different kind of traveler.
 

There were changes ever so slowly in this tier of traveler, as they work to attract replacements for the old guard who, frankly, can't travel quite so neatly.

 

For Celebrity, love those ICs and EVs.

 

Good for you

 

please define travel neatly…..are you referring to those who can afford a 60K suite vs those who can only afford say 6k…….

I can’t wait to see your reply, after which I will put you on ignore so I no longer have to read your humble posts………

 

[buncosquad]

17 minutes ago, Joker54 said:

Good for you

 

please define travel neatly…..are you referring to those who can afford a 60K suite vs those who can only afford say 6k…….

I can’t wait to see your reply, after which I will put you on ignore so I no longer have to read your humble posts………

 

By "neatly," I mean by age, by mobility issues due to age, or they (and we) all one day die and so new demographics are catered to.

 

There is a reason why shore excursions are age limited.

 

Alas, people do grow old, even very old, and can't physically handle the demands of travel.

 

That's what I mean by "neatly."

 

Thank you for pre-judging me.