Are Celebrity cost cutting and penny pinching there faithful customers off the ship?

[NutsAboutGolf]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:41 AM, basenji56 said:

If you don't have Elite and Elite Plus cruisers, more people are likely to purchase the drink packages because there are no free drinks.

 

As I always say, if cruise lines lost money on drink packages, they wouldn't sell them.  

 

 

It's a strategy to offer packages, Virgin doesn't follow this.  When X crew (often the bartender) says "X loses money on every drink package" they mean compared to the person who pays $15 for a cocktail that costs X less than a dollar in supplies

[Gracie115]

2 hours ago, Joker54 said:

  We also hardly ever ever dine in Luminae (E-Class), tending to eat more in specialty restaurants. My military career ruined my hearing and my hearing aids do a great job but not in really noisy environments. The noise is loud enough in Luminae on the Apex that is painful.

 

This is so true in Luminae on the E class ships.  The front part of the room is a bit quieter but if you sit in the main portion during dinner, well good luck hearing your table mates, especially if there are more than 2 of you at the table.  It is so loud it is reminiscent of why we immediately started booking Aqua and Blu back in 2009 when the S class first appeared.  We couldn't wait to get away from the MDR and now Luminae on E class is just as loud.  Funny thing was the couple of nights we dined in one of the MDR's on Apex it was QUIETER than Luminae.....  go figure...

[Joker54]

1 hour ago, Gracie115 said:

 

This is so true in Luminae on the E class ships.  The front part of the room is a bit quieter but if you sit in the main portion during dinner, well good luck hearing your table mates, especially if there are more than 2 of you at the table.  It is so loud it is reminiscent of why we immediately started booking Aqua and Blu back in 2009 when the S class first appeared.  We couldn't wait to get away from the MDR and now Luminae on E class is just as loud.  Funny thing was the couple of nights we dined in one of the MDR's on Apex it was QUIETER than Luminae.....  go figure...

Thank you, amazing how some things work out. We have yet to try the MDR but plan to give it a go in October 

[markeb]

Several things on this thread are interesting. Beginning with titles. I just looked again at the RCG leadership page, and only Liberty and Bayley have CEO titles; Bethge (Celebrity) and Muckermann (Silversea) are brand presidents. LLP was President and CEO of Celebrity. People noticed that in the original announcement, but we were all waiting to see what was actually posted, and based on that, LHB is not a CEO. They should have just posted their 10-Q and I'm curious what it actually says about corporate governance. But if that's accurate, Celebrity could now be one step further removed from the board, and LHB could largely be an implementer as others have suggested (Bo, for instance)...

 

Loyalty programs are at their heart customer retention programs. Old school metrics are that it costs 5-7X as much to acquire a new customer as to retain an existing customer. I've seen studies that question those numbers especially with targeted marketing and the internet.  If the retention program starts costing more than it's bringing in, it's time to change the program. You want to retain customers that spend money or acquire new ones that will. So if Elite/Elite +/Zenith members aren't spending on the high margin add-ons that a lot of CC'ers complain about and profess to not purchase (drink packages, internet packages, and ship's excursions, for instance), then at some point you either change the program or "fire them" if you seriously believe you can acquire new customers for less (big if). And bluntly, they already have our past spending; it's our future spending that matters.

 

There's a looooong thread on butlers running beside this one. I don't know that the sky is falling on that, but it is another in a series of operational decisions (vaping, for instance) that turns into brand strategy by operational decisions and honestly I think they're losing a niche they had almost to themselves in favor of competing with lines they probably could have maneuvered around. The strategy of providing an upscale experience priced better than true luxury/premium lines gave them a nice space in the market. The more they look like everyone else, the more they're competing on price (see several posts on this thread), and those are shark infested waters!

 

To quote Stan, 'nuff said...

[1Virgo]

22 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

Is it my misconception or am I seeing more and more people, who never spoke ill about Celebrity before, now  considering broadening their bookings to several other lines?  I don't recall it being this prevalent previously.

We are Elite, close to Plus, and looking at other options. 

[QuestionEverything]

Well we moved from Celebrity in 2018 due to cutbacks and a desire to have a fully open ship to enjoy, not agreeable to segregation. Went to Oceania, like many former Celebrity customers. Now cancelling Oceania, along with our many travel mates, due to their forced purchase of alcohol and shore excursions called the "Free Simply More" scam. 

What we have done is booked two escorted tours; 1 with Trafalgar and 1 with Globus. We return from both trips on the QM2. Now that are trips; a total indulgence of vistas, history, geography, local food and culture.

So to the OP - YES indeed, faithful cruise customers are Cancelling cruising indeed.

 

[shipshape sam]

On 8/1/2023 at 3:49 PM, Maisyboo said:

Unfortunately Holland America is also changing & not for the better in our opinion. After 17 cruises with HA we are done . Horrible experience  in March aboard the a Nieuw Statendam . Was thinking of going back to Celebrity.  What are the changes that are upsetting loyal customers?. 

Maybe for the same reasons you are leaving HAL.

[Rick&Jeannie]

I have to admit...I've read through this thread with great amusement.  We have been loyal to Princess for some time but we have our 2nd Celebrity cruise booked.  If you could go through and substitute "Celebrity" with "Princess" you would have a thread exactly like MANY over on the Princess board.  We may not like it (and it's for certain that many of us do NOT) but business is "in the business of making money" and changes are inevitable.  They know we are not going to live forever...so they are trying to build a model that they *hope* will appeal to that younger demographic.  Just an observation...

[gardengalaz]

For us, the ship IS the destination, so the onboard offerings and experience matter most — and even with all of the changes happening across the industry, a cruise still offers us a value proposition that's FAR more attractive than any comparable land-based vacation.  So we're definitely "Cruisers for Life."

 

That said, loyalty is the most valuable asset a cruise line can accrue, but it's tough to hold on to when the product is no longer what the customer (we) became loyal TO. Bottom line: if our expectations aren't being met, it's time to try some alternatives.  There's a LOT of ships on the sea!

 

That's just our 2¢ --

Edited August 3, 2023 by gardengalaz

[Ipeeinthepools]

Nope, all of the cutbacks and cost increases are not affecting my decision to book future cruises on Celebrity.   It’s the E-class ships that have sent me to the exit gate.  The lack of a real balcony for non-suite guests and the allocation of prime space on the ship to the suite guests are the real issues for me.  Celebrity is now assigning their best itineraries to E-class ships, so it’s getting more difficult to avoid the E-class ships.  The ride has been nice, but Celebrity has left me on the dock.

[lf4UA]

Here’s the thing about the cost cutting.  I had a 7-day Caribbean cruise out of San Juan booked on Celebrity Summit in March 2020 (canceled, of course).  The total cost of that cruise including concierge, drinks, tips, etc… $2,000.  The cost of that same cruise now… at least $3,600.  I went on HAL Rotterdam in March 2022 for $2,400, a year later over $3,200. With those kinds of price increases, you expect to have at least the same experience as before and certainly not a worse experience. 

[Ipeeinthepools]

1 hour ago, lf4UA said:

Here’s the thing about the cost cutting.  I had a 7-day Caribbean cruise out of San Juan booked on Celebrity Summit in March 2020 (canceled, of course).  The total cost of that cruise including concierge, drinks, tips, etc… $2,000.  The cost of that same cruise now… at least $3,600.  I went on HAL Rotterdam in March 2022 for $2,400, a year later over $3,200. With those kinds of price increases, you expect to have at least the same experience as before and certainly not a worse experience. 

Here’s the thing about the prices increases and service cutbacks.  The ships are sailing full and as long as the ships are full and the bookings are strong, prices will continue to increase.   Until demands starts to level off, it only makes sense for the cruise lines to continue to raise prices.  Why shouldn’t the cruise line raise prices?  Even if you or I choose not to book, there are still plenty of people to take the cabin at higher prices.

[wineoclock]

I’m finding that everything has gone up. We went to book a short night break to Cornwall same hotel we’ve stayed before 2 years ago & its £250pn for the same room! We passed. 

[TowandaUK]

We’ve decided to rest X until things settle down. Two reasons being the lovely Silhouette will no longer sail from Southampton. We have no wish to fly and E class ships have no interest for us with infinity balconies and inflated prices. Secondly you are unlikely to get what you booked, by the time you sail. So many alterations after you book.
 

We initially booked a Princess cruise but have since cancelled and booked a Cunard cruise. I had always thought Cunard was too pricey but actually it compares favourably with X. Excursions actually seem a lot cheaper than X!  We love dressing up so are ok with the stricter dress code and are looking forward to trying Cunard. Would like to think we might sail with X again but time will tell. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by TowandaUK
Missed a section

[Lena11033]

2 hours ago, wineoclock said:

I’m finding that everything has gone up. We went to book a short night break to Cornwall same hotel we’ve stayed before 2 years ago & its £250pn for the same room! We passed. 

 

Its shocking, I go back between Canada and UK a lot (especially when my mum was sick). My air fair I've compared has actually doubled, there are no good deals. Hotels in London, they are no better 

[Gracie115]

6 hours ago, Rick&Jeannie said:

I have to admit...I've read through this thread with great amusement.  We have been loyal to Princess for some time but we have our 2nd Celebrity cruise booked.  If you could go through and substitute "Celebrity" with "Princess" you would have a thread exactly like MANY over on the Princess board.  We may not like it (and it's for certain that many of us do NOT) but business is "in the business of making money" and changes are inevitable.  They know we are not going to live forever...so they are trying to build a model that they *hope* will appeal to that younger demographic.  Just an observation...

 

Interesting, our next cruise is on the Sky Princess. We found pricing to be quite a bit lower and have already had a price DECREASE on our sailing, saving us over $1200.  I've been on the Princess boards and it looks like what people are most upset with are the recent changes adding room service charges and a charge for Alfredo's pizza venue.  70+ pages of comments about it.  I get that no one wants to spend more, we booked the Premier package so this change doesn't impact us and even with the additional cost for that package our sailing is still significantly less than it would be on X.  

[wineoclock]

22 minutes ago, Lena11033 said:

 

Its shocking, I go back between Canada and UK a lot (especially when my mum was sick). My air fair I've compared has actually doubled, there are no good deals. Hotels in London, they are no better 

London hotels are even worse! We live in Hertfordshire but often stayed in town after nights out when dh used to get business discounts. He’s now retired so that’s no longer an option! 

[chromered7]

As the OP it has been very interesting to read the various contributions and points of view. We are due to sail on Millennium towards the end of the year and what we experience will dictate if we cruise with X again. As Elite Plus customers you get accustomed to and expect the same standard we have had before. The removal of butlers in some cabin classes, the $10 charge for hot food room service and reports that beds may not be changed every day are some reasons to suggest all is not well. 

 

 

 

[SoBe2010]

13 hours ago, markeb said:

Several things on this thread are interesting. Beginning with titles. I just looked again at the RCG leadership page, and only Liberty and Bayley have CEO titles; Bethge (Celebrity) and Muckermann (Silversea) are brand presidents. LLP was President and CEO of Celebrity. People noticed that in the original announcement, but we were all waiting to see what was actually posted, and based on that, LHB is not a CEO. They should have just posted their 10-Q and I'm curious what it actually says about corporate governance. But if that's accurate, Celebrity could now be one step further removed from the board, and LHB could largely be an implementer as others have suggested (Bo, for instance)...

 

Loyalty programs are at their heart customer retention programs. Old school metrics are that it costs 5-7X as much to acquire a new customer as to retain an existing customer. I've seen studies that question those numbers especially with targeted marketing and the internet.  If the retention program starts costing more than it's bringing in, it's time to change the program. You want to retain customers that spend money or acquire new ones that will. So if Elite/Elite +/Zenith members aren't spending on the high margin add-ons that a lot of CC'ers complain about and profess to not purchase (drink packages, internet packages, and ship's excursions, for instance), then at some point you either change the program or "fire them" if you seriously believe you can acquire new customers for less (big if). And bluntly, they already have our past spending; it's our future spending that matters.

 

There's a looooong thread on butlers running beside this one. I don't know that the sky is falling on that, but it is another in a series of operational decisions (vaping, for instance) that turns into brand strategy by operational decisions and honestly I think they're losing a niche they had almost to themselves in favor of competing with lines they probably could have maneuvered around. The strategy of providing an upscale experience priced better than true luxury/premium lines gave them a nice space in the market. The more they look like everyone else, the more they're competing on price (see several posts on this thread), and those are shark infested waters!

 

To quote Stan, 'nuff said...

Well said 👌

[hubofhockey]

6 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

Nope, all of the cutbacks and cost increases are not affecting my decision to book future cruises on Celebrity.   It’s the E-class ships that have sent me to the exit gate.  The lack of a real balcony for non-suite guests and the allocation of prime space on the ship to the suite guests are the real issues for me.  Celebrity is now assigning their best itineraries to E-class ships, so it’s getting more difficult to avoid the E-class ships.  The ride has been nice, but Celebrity has left me on the dock.

 

Best itineraries?  Doubtful.  The best itineraries go to M class ships.  They can do it at smaller ports, giving them better access to real cities and have unique itineraries.  

[cruzeluver]

Interesting.....but hardly new. The weakening of the cruise product has been a topic for years and years. Some see ANY change as bad and I do feel for those folks as it must be an awful way to go through life since change is inevitable. 

 

I would be curious to know what percentage of the very frequent Elite Plus and up customers still purchase shore excursions, shop at the "recommended" stores, buy photos, art etc. In other words, bring in ancillary revenue.

 

"Familiarity breeds contempt"

Edited August 3, 2023 by cruzeluver

[wineoclock]

Our first cruise on X was in a SS 2000. We then sailed DCL (1 bedroom suite) and went back to X (in PS x 2, CS x 1 & Aqua x 1) when the dcs were older. Things were different but we enjoyed all the same.

 

We loved Aqua as much as suites tbh. Our next 2 cruises are in a suite guarantee & a CS.

 

We will make the most of the trips whatever changes come.

 

I’ll not be cooking or cleaning so I’ll be happy! 

[zitsky]

8 hours ago, Rick&Jeannie said:

I have to admit...I've read through this thread with great amusement.  We have been loyal to Princess for some time but we have our 2nd Celebrity cruise booked.  If you could go through and substitute "Celebrity" with "Princess" you would have a thread exactly like MANY over on the Princess board.  We may not like it (and it's for certain that many of us do NOT) but business is "in the business of making money" and changes are inevitable.  They know we are not going to live forever...so they are trying to build a model that they *hope* will appeal to that younger demographic.  Just an observation...

For some of us, this is about a company changing a contract after payment of a non refundable deposit or final payment.

[tfred]

18 hours ago, Joker54 said:

Your expectations and ours are different.

 

And yes I may have rebooked on principle. We are not fans of the E-class ships and these days spend very little time in the retreat lounge. We also hardly ever ever dine in Luminae (E-Class), tending to eat more in specialty restaurants. My military career ruined my hearing and my hearing aids do a great job but not in really noisy environments. The noise is loud enough in Luminae on the Apex that is painful.

 

I also do not find the prime rib dinner example to be a relevant comparison.

 

I am curious what industry you work in?

I worked in capital equipment sales for 40 years   Software, hardware, support services changed all the time. Along the way I put in 2000+ nights in hotels and 2 million air miles so I know something about the receiving end of the hospitality business

 

The "prime rib" comment is one that is constantly used here on CC.  It seems to be the determinator of "good food" on board. Every time there is a food change (4 shrimp cocktail instead of 5) a handful of people fly off and start complaining instead of looking at the overall quality of the meal

 

my guess is that the team concept will be absolutely the same experience for 99% of suite pax

[QuestionEverything]

7 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

Nope, all of the cutbacks and cost increases are not affecting my decision to book future cruises on Celebrity.   It’s the E-class ships that have sent me to the exit gate.  The lack of a real balcony for non-suite guests and the allocation of prime space on the ship to the suite guests are the real issues for me.  Celebrity is now assigning their best itineraries to E-class ships, so it’s getting more difficult to avoid the E-class ships.  The ride has been nice, but Celebrity has left me on the dock.

I agree.

The E class is absolutely canceled for me for the reasons you mention, and specifically the loss of a forward viewing area for ALL guests. Disgusting.

I cruise for the itinerary, so Celebrity is not likely to have me as a guest as the premium and luxury lines have far more wide ranging itineraries.

I have cancelled two cruises on Oceania due to their cost cutting and their increasing tendency to skip ports (they are the worst cruise for that). Replaced O with two land tours in Europe with each including a return on the QM2. 

So cruising is losing me for many reasons...............