Are Celebrity cost cutting and penny pinching there faithful customers off the ship?

[BlackLion 213]

19 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Sorry to hear that. Which recent Eclipse cruise were you on? We were on a 33-day B3B cruise in April/May of this year that included a 3-day cruise to nowhere out of Sydney followed by a transpacific cruise from Sydney to Vancouver by way of Hawaii and had a fantastic time in an Aqua cabin. But I have to say CD Eddy Jenkins had a lot to do with that regarding a fantastic entertainment schedule along with the food being pretty tasty in Blu.

 

July 16th to Alaska.

 

I had really enjoyed reading your "Live from…" with such anticipation for our cruise. It was apparent you had such an incredible time, it was hard to imagine ours would be anything but…

 

But it was.

 

The CD had changed to Rich Clesen by the time we were on board. He didn't make or break the cruise by any means. But the entertainment was mostly quite enjoyable. And we never ate in Blu.

 

For personal reasons, I am choosing to leave it at that. I am sure you understand that I don't need further critique of my critique from others.

 

I am glad you enjoyed your cruises. I sure wish we had travelled with you!

 

[Ken the cruiser]

6 minutes ago, BlackLion 213 said:

 

July 16th to Alaska.

 

I had really enjoyed reading your "Live from…" with such anticipation for our cruise. It was apparent you had such an incredible time, it was hard to imagine ours would be anything but…

 

But it was.

 

The CD had changed to Rich Clesen by the time we were on board. He didn't make or break the cruise by any means. But the entertainment was mostly quite enjoyable. And we never ate in Blu.

 

For personal reasons, I am choosing to leave it at that. I am sure you understand that I don't need further critique of my critique from others.

 

I am glad you enjoyed your cruises. I sure wish we had travelled with you!

 

Understand. I'm so sorry to hear that, especially that Eddy Jenkins wasn't you CD as he had only boarded the Eclipse in February. Hopefully, your future cruises regardless of the cruise line(s) you choose to sail with will be much more rewarding.

[Ken the cruiser]

53 minutes ago, RichYak said:

IMO this is the proper way to choose a cruise--a very unemotional and value-based approach. My cruising mindset has shifted from "where can Celebrity take me?" to "where do I want to go and who can provide me with the best value?" 

Well said. When cruising started back up for us in Aug 2021, we booked our first 9 cruises totaling 72 cruise days at very affordable prices exclusively with Celebrity, and don't regret doing that for one minute. Then, to expand our horizons as we have had good experiences with these other lines, we started booking some 2022 cruises and beyond with Princess (Club Class and Vista suites), NCL (Club Balcony) along with Celebrity (Aqua) and had a great time on all of them so far.

 

Funny thing, though, the Celebrity "thrill" must be waning, as most of our future cruises in 2024 and 2025 are mostly with Princess and a few with NCL. But the most unique one that recently caught our eye was this 2025 Princess itinerary that just became available. Celebrity is currently offering a similar B2B on the Eclipse in April 2024, but we were waiting to see what they had to offer with stops in Brazil for 2025.

 

Just for the fun of it, check out how much a Princess Penthouse suite is on this cruise (with the Plus package). Also note the amount of PCL OBC that comes with booking this cruise which includes in most cases a refundable deposit.

 

Cruise Details - 18-Day Brazilian Adventure - Princess Cruises

 

In our specific case we booked a corner aft-facing Penthouse suite with the Princess Plus package for $350 pp/day (net), once we subtracted our military OBC, the advertised Princess OBC, and our TA booking discount. 

 

Now check out what Celebrity is asking for their similar Eclipse B2B in Apr 2024 from BA to New Jersey.

 

7 Nights Buenos Aires to Rio De Janeiro from Buenos Aires, Argentina | Celebrity Cruises

 

14 Nights Rio De Janeiro to Cape Liberty from Rio De Janeiro, Brazil | Celebrity Cruises

  

This is one big reason why we keep looking elsewhere, especially when it comes to the more exotic itineraries.

[Baron Barracuda]

Apparently Jason Liberty believes cruises are underpriced, at least compared to land vacations

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/cruise-operators-plan-hike-prices-costs-rise-demand-swells-2023-08-03/

[hubofhockey]

On 8/3/2023 at 7:33 AM, zitsky said:

For some of us, this is about a company changing a contract after payment of a non refundable deposit or final payment.

 

I thought the policy was only changed for new booking made after a certain date.  Regardless, I view the change as a price increase because it forces those of us, who like to book at the non-refundable rates to book at higher rates.  As someone pointed out to me, the workaround is purchasing the future cruise credits or next cruise or whatever Celebrity calls them and book the nonrefundable rates with those.  It reduces the risk and allows us to book at the non-refundable rates.

 

As for Princess, been there done that and won't be returning to that line.  The new class of ships, to me, is a big turnoff, and their food, never great to begin with, is much below in quality to that of Celebrity.

 

I am starting to look more at Azamara.  I am not looking to decrease the level of the product to save money.  There are bargains to be had with better lines and have no interest in E class.  M or S is fine, but enjoy itineraries on M.  Say  what you want about Celebrity, but, unlike Princess, they keep reinvesting in their smaller ships and provide a much better experience.  

[hubofhockey]

20 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Apparently Jason Liberty believes cruises are underpriced, at least compared to land vacations

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/cruise-operators-plan-hike-prices-costs-rise-demand-swells-2023-08-03/

 

He's comparing Carnival to Disneyworld, which makes no sense because it's not apples to apples.  Compare an all-inclusive in the Caribbean to a Caribbean cruise and then get back to the real world Liberty.  

[zitsky]

18 minutes ago, hubofhockey said:

 

I thought the policy was only changed for new booking made after a certain date.  Regardless, I view the change as a price increase because it forces those of us, who like to book at the non-refundable rates to book at higher rates.  As someone pointed out to me, the workaround is purchasing the future cruise credits or next cruise or whatever Celebrity calls them and book the nonrefundable rates with those.  It reduces the risk and allows us to book at the non-refundable rates.

 

As for Princess, been there done that and won't be returning to that line.  The new class of ships, to me, is a big turnoff, and their food, never great to begin with, is much below in quality to that of Celebrity.

 

I am starting to look more at Azamara.  I am not looking to decrease the level of the product to save money.  There are bargains to be had with better lines and have no interest in E class.  M or S is fine, but enjoy itineraries on M.  Say  what you want about Celebrity, but, unlike Princess, they keep reinvesting in their smaller ships and provide a much better experience.  

I’ve not seen anything from anyone, Celebrity or pax, that says these changes apply only to certain people or dates.

 

I did just get my call / voicemail from the Executive office.  Not terribly reassuring.  I asked them, what is next?

Edited August 4, 2023 by zitsky

[MISTER 67]

On 8/1/2023 at 3:49 PM, Maisyboo said:

Unfortunately Holland America is also changing & not for the better in our opinion. After 17 cruises with HA we are done . Horrible experience  in March aboard the a Nieuw Statendam . Was thinking of going back to Celebrity.  What are the changes that are upsetting loyal customers?. 

We also had a bad experience on the Nieuw Amsterdam last December, we are 4 Star Mariners with HAL but will stick with Celebrity and Princess for future cruises. It seems like all the lines are cutting costs while raising rates and onboard costs like gratuities and drinks. So far Celebrity still has pretty good food even though the there have been cutbacks on menu selection in the MDR, they are still doing a good job in the buffet with selection and food quality. The entertainment is still pretty good even though they need to change some of the production shows which have been around a little too long. Service is still very good and we like the twice a day cabin service. We sail on the Equinox on August 13 and hope things haven’t changed much since our last cruise which was on the Reflection in April.

[C 2 C]

On 8/1/2023 at 3:49 PM, Maisyboo said:

Unfortunately Holland America is also changing & not for the better in our opinion. After 17 cruises with HA we are done . Horrible experience  in March aboard the a Nieuw Statendam . Was thinking of going back to Celebrity.  What are the changes that are upsetting loyal customers?. 

We spent 10 weeks on N  Statendam and loved it, except for the shows.  However shows on Celebrity don't change often enough if one is a frequent cruiser.  The food choices on NS were fantastic and the desserts are way better on HAL and I have the pounds to prove it.

[paulh84]

1 hour ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Apparently Jason Liberty believes cruises are underpriced, at least compared to land vacations

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/cruise-operators-plan-hike-prices-costs-rise-demand-swells-2023-08-03/

 

This is not a new or original thought at all. Even before the COVID travel rush analysts were pointing at cruise lines for easily hitting occupancy at over 100%. If demand is that strong they need to push the price. They all can say all the want about providing memorable vacations and bucket list experiences, etc. etc. etc. but their job is to produce profits. That's it. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Apparently Jason Liberty believes cruises are underpriced, at least compared to land vacations

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/cruise-operators-plan-hike-prices-costs-rise-demand-swells-2023-08-03/

 

Exec's that say "I believe we're OVERpriced" don't stay at their jobs for very long

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, hubofhockey said:

 

He's comparing Carnival to Disneyworld, which makes no sense because it's not apples to apples.  Compare an all-inclusive in the Caribbean to a Caribbean cruise and then get back to the real world Liberty.  

 

There's still the pricing "dirty little secret" no cruise execs ever talk about which are the "fire sales", or when they lower their pricing if there isn't enough occupancy often peaking 4 weeks or less...There's some for Alaska right now

[tfred]

1 hour ago, hubofhockey said:

 

He's comparing Carnival to Disneyworld, which makes no sense because it's not apples to apples.  Compare an all-inclusive in the Caribbean to a Caribbean cruise and then get back to the real world Liberty.  

I did take a quick look at Sandals Jamaica and it is within spitting distance of an equivalent X cruise  - food, booze (no hard liquor) tips etc.  

 

Everyone know DisneyWorld resort so that is easy for a consumer to understand. There are many hotel resorts that are not all inclusive but when you add in standard a la carte food and booze and resort fees it is expensive,  That is the customer that X is looking for 

[hubofhockey]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

I’ve not seen anything from anyone, Celebrity or pax, that says these changes apply only to certain people or dates.

 

I did just get my call / voicemail from the Executive office.  Not terribly reassuring.  I asked them, what is next?

 

I canceled my Japan itinerary after the rules changed.  It was booked well before the rules changed.  I did lose the $200 of my $900 and got the $700 credit to a similar itinerary three weeks later (at a much lower price).  My booking was handled by the monster wholesale club travel and they followed through for me.  It goes by booking date and not cancelation date.

[tfred]

Just now, tfred said:

I did take a quick look at Sandals Jamaica and it is within spitting distance of an equivalent X cruise  - food, booze (no hard liquor) tips etc.  

 

Everyone know DisneyWorld resort so that is easy for a consumer to understand. There are many hotel resorts that are not all inclusive but when you add in standard a la carte food and booze and resort fees it is expensive,  That is the customer that X is looking for 

 

1 minute ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

There's still the pricing "dirty little secret" no cruise execs ever talk about which are the "fire sales", or when they lower their pricing if there isn't enough occupancy often peaking 4 weeks or less...There's some for Alaska right now

True, but that requires a very flexible schedule.  most working people can't take vacation at the last moment in a department 

[NutsAboutGolf]

3 minutes ago, tfred said:

 

True, but that requires a very flexible schedule.  most working people can't take vacation at the last moment in a department 

 

Absolutely won't for everyone yet many may be surprised that your boss may let you have a week of vacation off within 2-4 weeks.  Present it something like this (everyone's job is a little different)  "Sorry for the short notice but my S.O. and I found a fantastic deal on a cruise that leaves in 3 weeks.  My S.O. was just approved for the time off, if you approve me to go I have spoken to Mr./Ms. ABC who will back me up and I will be available by email if a work emergency arises...If there's anything else you want me to take care before I leave just let me know"...Again, won't work for everyone but it may work for you if you ask

[hubofhockey]

4 minutes ago, tfred said:

I did take a quick look at Sandals Jamaica and it is within spitting distance of an equivalent X cruise  - food, booze (no hard liquor) tips etc.  

 

Everyone know DisneyWorld resort so that is easy for a consumer to understand. There are many hotel resorts that are not all inclusive but when you add in standard a la carte food and booze and resort fees it is expensive,  That is the customer that X is looking for 

 

My point is that people don't decide on Disney vs Cruise.  Disney is a destination, and even more so, for parents with young kids.  Also, the all inclusives give you the beach for a week and resort living with much nicer living space.  It's a different product.  To be honest, I'm in SWFL from October through April and don't even need that kind of vacation.  My cruise itineraries are Europe or Asia.  On those, we do a land portion and a cruise portion.  After booking my Japan cruise, I immediately had second thoughts, knowing I easily could have done had done 5 nights in Tokyo, 3 in Kyoto, and 2 in Osaka and 1 up north and gotten the same experience for less $.  I am happy it's 4 nights in Tokyo, 2 in Kyoto, and the 12 day cruise (with the seas days) because the cruise element is more relaxing and I am not limited to Japanese food for 2+ weeks.

[tfred]

1 minute ago, hubofhockey said:

 

My point is that people don't decide on Disney vs Cruise.  Disney is a destination, and even more so, for parents with young kids.  Also, the all inclusives give you the beach for a week and resort living with much nicer living space.  It's a different product.  To be honest, I'm in SWFL from October through April and don't even need that kind of vacation.  My cruise itineraries are Europe or Asia.  On those, we do a land portion and a cruise portion.  After booking my Japan cruise, I immediately had second thoughts, knowing I easily could have done had done 5 nights in Tokyo, 3 in Kyoto, and 2 in Osaka and 1 up north and gotten the same experience for less $.  I am happy it's 4 nights in Tokyo, 2 in Kyoto, and the 12 day cruise (with the seas days) because the cruise element is more relaxing and I am not limited to Japanese food for 2+ weeks.

I think the attraction of all inclusive vacations (which include cruises, all inclusive resorts and destination resorts a la carte) is that there is no thinking. Everything is thought out and all you have to do is show up.  This is especially true with adult families of 2,3 or 4 couples. No worry about when to eat breakfast, Are they coming with us? kind of questions.  It is a different product but is a variation on the theme of "no thinking " on the part of the purchaser

 

In all cases, all inclusive are going to be more expensive because they can be and people will pay for convenience.  How much they pay and what is the value is also total price and are you satisfied at what you get   A $4K vacation can be a great value as well as a $12k - just depends on your money and taste 

 

X thinks they can compete for  the upper middle level crowd with a few splurges in there as well (for those who dont like Silversea nightlife or formality. )

[hubofhockey]

Yes, I am pretty much past that point in my life.  Liberty is really speaking more to RCCL if he's talking about pricing because it's more of a family line and those cruises, parents really can leave their worries behind.  There's something to be said for that, no doubt.  I don't hate the mass market cruise experience, but there is the crowding, food prepared for the masses, etc.  Maybe that makes me a vacation snob and not the target for them.

[Iamcruzin]

Loyalty programs are a trap and if you put your eggs all in one basket you are now feeling slighted. I always found them limiting so I never based the perks when making my decision. Overall price and promotions saves me more money than a load of free laundry and at this point any free wifi through a loyalty perk is a joke.  The good old days theme is played out and it will never go back to where it was. They have you where they want you and know that you won't leave so they just keep cutting. Some of you act as if it's a sin to make a profit. These same people are probably the same ones who hold shares with the cruise line. 

[shipshape sam]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:56 AM, Ipeeinthepools said:

Nope, all of the cutbacks and cost increases are not affecting my decision to book future cruises on Celebrity.   It’s the E-class ships that have sent me to the exit gate.  The lack of a real balcony for non-suite guests and the allocation of prime space on the ship to the suite guests are the real issues for me.  Celebrity is now assigning their best itineraries to E-class ships, so it’s getting more difficult to avoid the E-class ships.  The ride has been nice, but Celebrity has left me on the dock.

i too do not like the IV cabins and look more towards S class sailings.  I did like a number of things on the E class ships and IMHO, liked very much the Oceaniew Cafe and how spacious it felt.  

[NMTraveller]

7 minutes ago, shipshape sam said:

i too do not like the IV cabins and look more towards S class sailings.  I did like a number of things on the E class ships and IMHO, liked very much the Oceaniew Cafe and how spacious it felt.  

In the evenings or the morning?  For us it was packed in the mornings even though they added extra space.  OMG the whole ship felt packed due to the reduced number of public spaces.  

 

I guess that loud and shouty and packed is a positive with the younger generation.

Edited August 5, 2023 by NMTraveller

[hubofhockey]

58 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Loyalty programs are a trap and if you put your eggs all in one basket you are now feeling slighted. I always found them limiting so I never based the perks when making my decision. Overall price and promotions saves me more money than a load of free laundry and at this point any free wifi through a loyalty perk is a joke.  The good old days theme is played out and it will never go back to where it was. They have you where they want you and know that you won't leave so they just keep cutting. Some of you act as if it's a sin to make a profit. These same people are probably the same ones who hold shares with the cruise line. 

The loyalty stuff is fascinating in much the same way people get upset when Amex Platinum users ask for retention offers rather than just be happy to fork over the $695 for the privilege holding onto that card.  If you look hard enough, you can do more than clip coupons from AMEX or Celebrity.  

[villauk]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:36 PM, bigbenboys said:

Well, I did something I have not done in 12 years. I talked to our TA about booking Princess. I'm booking a PH3 with Princess Premier on the Discovery (2022). I know there have been changes over at Princess. I'm sure a lot has changed in 12 years.

With over 30 cruises with X from Balcony to CS. We mostly book sky suites. The butler change for us is not a big deal. But, many other changes by X has made me look elsewhere. We do have 3 cruise booked with X. I'm going to cancel one more. 

 

 

 

Princess are just as bad. We’ve just discovered, still waiting for Princess to inform us though, with two weeks until we cruise, that we need to pay more to use their Medallion (which they pushed heavily), for room service and to visit the pizza restaurant which were all included when we paid for our cruise 3 months ago - and we have their Plus package (same for those on the Premier Package who booked before Dec)! No official communication from them! To say that I’m not a happy bunny is an understatement. I believe, according to posts over on the Princess board, suites have to pay for room service too!

 

No doubt, X will change things before our Millie cruise next year. It’s definitely making us think about other forms of vacations.

Edited August 5, 2023 by villauk

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, villauk said:

 

Princess are just as bad. We’ve just discovered, still waiting for Princess to inform us though, with two weeks until we cruise, that we need to pay more to use their Medallion (which they pushed heavily), for room service and to visit the pizza restaurant which were all included when we paid for our cruise 3 months ago - and we have their Plus package (same for those on the Premier Package who booked before Dec)! No official communication from them! To say that I’m not a happy bunny is an understatement. I believe, according to posts over on the Princess board, suites have to pay for room service too!

 

No doubt, X will change things before our Millie cruise next year. It’s definitely making us think about other forms of vacations.

 

No, full suites on Princess don't have to pay for room service.  

 

 

It IS lousy that Princess isn't grandfathering in all those who bought the Plus or Premier packages before December.  Doesn't make sense.  We are still VERY pleased with the cost of our Sky Princess sailing in 2024, the same type room and itinerary on Celebrity would be nearly double what we are paying  for Princess.