Oosterdam RAW SEWAGE DISASTER HOLLAND AMERICA DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THEIR GUESTS!

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, AllTheSun said:

The multiple times comment means it had to have resolved multiple times as well so this is not a “I had no toilet for the cruise” situation but more of a “I had to call maintenance multiple times” situation…

 

No, it does not mean that but that is an interpretation of what it could mean. "Multiple times" in the past we had commodes that did not flush immediately, but eventually they did.  Something in the vacuum system finally kicked it later and it flushed on its own. That was reported as a "toilet not working" - which on its face is true; but ultimately immaterial.

 

'Multiple times" OP had issues at this point remains undefined. Not sure why the OP chose not to be more precise in his now belated complaints.  Multiple times this happened?  Or multiple times he complained and was not rewarded with what he felt was just compensation. 

[Catlover54]

1 hour ago, urqu3 said:

Many of you have asked how many times this happened. Or was it an ongoing problem? 

We had raw sewage filling our toilet multiple times a day every day! I also want to reiterate this was not a backed up toilet , This was raw sewage filling our toilet from some other cabins. The excrement in the pictures was not ours!!!

 

Thank you for clarifying various issues since my questions in post #2. I frankly don't think the issue would have been any better if the excrement *had* been yours.  You paid for a luxury cabin, and your experience was not only not luxury, it was substandard and degrading and substantially and materially interfered with your ability to enjoy your cruise.  As someone who enjoys soaking in the bath tub a couple times a day on a cruise, and who otherwise has to frequently visit the bathroom at night, I would have been livid about this.  Though I'm used to 'making do' with minor failings when I travel without expecting ( much less demanding) FCC, or refunds, HAL's FCC offers of $600 or $1000 are inadequate.  If this was going on the whole cruise, multiple times a day, a reasonable cruiser could conclude that you should have been refunded your entire cruise fare along with a letter of apology.  It is disappointing to hear that HAL blew you off.

 

Your experience reinforces concerns I have about sailing on old ships.  Though  sewage problem events can happen even on new ships, reports about them seem to be more common from pax sailing on older ships. But perhaps frequent maintenance and preventive care would help avoid such messes.  My favorite cruise ship (on a German line) was built in 1999, but it is consistently in tip top functional shape. 

 

I understand if you don't want to ever return to HAL, though you were very unlucky that your first experience was unusually toxic. From what you described, HAL customer service managers did not handle this well, though as stated above, I don't think they read this forum (some lines read their CC forums).  Hopefully you will find other cruise lines you will be happy with, perhaps on newer ships. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Catlover54
Typo

[kansas2018]

We were on this ship in January 2023 for 28 days. Our toilet would flush when it wanted to flush. We reported the problem to various sources but the reply from guest services was to ask if the toilet was not flushing at all or is it just delayed flushing implying that the latter you could live with... which we did but it was no fun to be falling asleep and all of a sudden hear WHOSH......

thankfully our problem was not as serious as the op but I can understand their frustration.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

You are correct.  I suspect that the OP's toilet had a "discharge valve" (the valve that opens to empty the toilet) that was leaking slightly, so the vacuum in the system was slowly sucking the water out of the bowl, but if the toilet is flushed often enough, one of these "leakers" doesn't get the bowl dry and create a "sucking toilet" that can be heard.  Now, when the vacuum goes down in the system, sometimes there is enough vacuum at a location to trigger the flushing sequence valve, so someone's toilet could flush, but there is not enough vacuum to get the "product" all the way through the system, and then what "product" is laying in horizontal pipe runs will flow by gravity down the system.  If the "discharge valves" are all working properly, then nothing should come back through while the vacuum is down.  But, a "leaker" will allow the "product" to back flow into a toilet by gravity.

 

So, long story short, the OP's toilet was most likely an unnoticed problem, that became a problem when the vacuum system got plugged repeatedly.

 

It is a pretty rare occurrence, I would set it at about once in every couple of thousand toilet failures.

How difficult of a fix is it to replace that valve?

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, kansas2018 said:

We were on this ship in January 2023 for 28 days. Our toilet would flush when it wanted to flush. We reported the problem to various sources but the reply from guest services was to ask if the toilet was not flushing at all or is it just delayed flushing implying that the latter you could live with... which we did but it was no fun to be falling asleep and all of a sudden hear WHOSH......

thankfully our problem was not as serious as the op but I can understand their frustration.

The "ghost flush" is caused when there is no vacuum in the system at your cabin, either due to the system being opened for repair, or a blockage somewhere downstream of your cabin.  When you push the flush button, you send a pulse of air to a pneumatic control valve, but if there is no vacuum in the system, the control valve won't let the toilet flush.  When vacuum is restored, the control valve is primed to flush, and it will at that time.  It is not a problem with your toilet, it is caused by a lack of vacuum somewhere in the system.  Every toilet in the system will do the same thing if the flush button has been pushed when there is insufficient vacuum for any reason.

[chengkp75]

Just now, ldtr said:

How difficult of a fix is it to replace that valve?

20 minutes.

[cccole]

We are on the opposite aft wrap cabin as OP for 22 days in January.  If this type of thing is not fixed I will be so upset.  I don't know that it has been effecting our cabin but this type of problem should not be tolerated by anyone.  I agree with the poster who indicated a full refund is in order.  FCC...are you crazy HAL?  I like the idea of sailing on an older ship but not if the ship is not in "tip top shape."  JMO. Cherie

[OlsSalt]

27 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

20 minutes.

 

Why would HAL not fix this?

 

Which the OP claimed HAL refused to do, so he/she was forced to deal with "raw sewage" every day for the entire cruise.

[3rdGenCunarder]

54 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Why would HAL not fix this?

 

Which the OP claimed HAL refused to do, so he/she was forced to deal with "raw sewage" every day for the entire cruise.

 

Maybe they didn't have the part to fix it? Maybe it was something more complicated?

 

Someone on social media said they had that cabin next cruise with the same problem. If the ship was sold out, should HAL have cancelled the next people's cruise because the cabin wasn't habitable? Or if they knew about it before OP boarded, should their cruise have been cancelled since they couldn't be moved?

[kazu]

1 hour ago, cccole said:

We are on the opposite aft wrap cabin as OP for 22 days in January.  If this type of thing is not fixed I will be so upset.  I don't know that it has been effecting our cabin but this type of problem should not be tolerated by anyone.  I agree with the poster who indicated a full refund is in order.  FCC...are you crazy HAL?  I like the idea of sailing on an older ship but not if the ship is not in "tip top shape."  JMO. Cherie

 

Hang in there.  It is a rare occurrence but now you have a ton of information and if it is a 20 minute fix, there is no reason to tolerate it.

 

Stand your ground and tell the concierge to get the head of engineering, housekeeping or the HD in the Neptune Lounge to meet with you.  

 

The OP should have NEVER been sent to Guest Services as I said many posts ago.  Do NOT let them do that.  Be firm but polite.  

Hopefully this is a one off and it will not be your problem.  I’m on the ship next year and not cancelling.  Sailed her in November last year and there are several on our roll call who enjoyed it so much last year, they have signed on for next year if that helps you feel better.

[cccole]

Thank you Kazu, We board on January 7 and January 8 is a sea day.  If we have this problem we will address it as you have encouraged and we will be off the ship with bags in hand on the 9th if they cannot fix it. 

 

I'm so looking forward to this cruise and this ship.   Your post does make me feel better!!!  Cherie 

[Guest ldtr]

Considering the rarity of a problem like this occurring and  relative ease of the fix where is Paul Harvey when you need him..  

[urqu3]

Just to be more specific maintenance was in our cabin every day they took the toilet apart multiple times and they claim they replaced everything there was to replace! When that did not resolve the problem they went outside to the balcony and accessed some piping out there and carried many buckets of waste water through our cabin. That also did not resolve the issue. For those of you that claim I am ranting We were patient for 10 days of the cruise all the while being promised they would compensate us for the problem. When that compensation turned out to be an insult that's when I started to really complain and when Holland America just decided to ignore me completely that when I started to "rant" if you want to call it that. For all of you that don't believe this happened or keep defending HAL just think if it happened to you! we are not new cruisers. MY wife and I have been on over a dozen cruises (and yes we know how to use a cruise ship toilet) most with Celebrity where we enjoy Elite status! We took an Alaskan cruise with HAL in 2022 and loved it, that's why we decided to forgo our perks with Celebrity and cruise with HAL again. That turned out to be a big mistake. 

[GatorMomInNC]

2 minutes ago, urqu3 said:

Just to be more specific maintenance was in our cabin every day they took the toilet apart multiple times and they claim they replaced everything there was to replace! When that did not resolve the problem they went outside to the balcony and accessed some piping out there and carried many buckets of waste water through our cabin. That also did not resolve the issue. For those of you that claim I am ranting We were patient for 10 days of the cruise all the while being promised they would compensate us for the problem. When that compensation turned out to be an insult that's when I started to really complain and when Holland America just decided to ignore me completely that when I started to "rant" if you want to call it that. For all of you that don't believe this happened or keep defending HAL just think if it happened to you! we are not new cruisers. MY wife and I have been on over a dozen cruises (and yes we know how to use a cruise ship toilet) most with Celebrity where we enjoy Elite status! We took an Alaskan cruise with HAL in 2022 and loved it, that's why we decided to forgo our perks with Celebrity and cruise with HAL again. That turned out to be a big mistake. 

Ugh, gross!!  I don't blame you for being upset.  It sounds as if HAL dropped the ball.  I would have preferred to be in an inside cabin with a working toilet than in a suite with raw sewage issues....

[RuthC]

6 minutes ago, urqu3 said:

For those of you that claim I am ranting We were patient for 10 days of the cruise all the while being promised they would compensate us for the problem. When that compensation turned out to be an insult that's when I started to really complain and when Holland America just decided to ignore me completely that when I started to "rant" if you want to call it that.

Just curious: at any point in that 'rant' (as you call it) did you make any references to 'legal action', talking to a lawyer, or anything at all that could be construed as potential litigation? 

Something like that would shut down any communication from shipboard staff. 

[urqu3]

Not yet, I was hoping HAL would do the right thing and stand behind their product! But I guess that is always an option!

[cccole]

urqu3 - Did you book direct with HAL or with a TA?  I will let our TA know that if this is a problem for us he will be the first to know!  So sorry for your experience,  Cherie

Edited August 24, 2023 by cccole

[Destiny0315]

27 minutes ago, urqu3 said:

Just to be more specific maintenance was in our cabin every day they took the toilet apart multiple times and they claim they replaced everything there was to replace! When that did not resolve the problem they went outside to the balcony and accessed some piping out there and carried many buckets of waste water through our cabin. That also did not resolve the issue. For those of you that claim I am ranting We were patient for 10 days of the cruise all the while being promised they would compensate us for the problem. When that compensation turned out to be an insult that's when I started to really complain and when Holland America just decided to ignore me completely that when I started to "rant" if you want to call it that. For all of you that don't believe this happened or keep defending HAL just think if it happened to you! we are not new cruisers. MY wife and I have been on over a dozen cruises (and yes we know how to use a cruise ship toilet) most with Celebrity where we enjoy Elite status! We took an Alaskan cruise with HAL in 2022 and loved it, that's why we decided to forgo our perks with Celebrity and cruise with HAL again. That turned out to be a big mistake. 

You do realize that if you had been more forthcoming in your original post instead of leaking out more and more information as this thread continues you would have had even more support here for your cause. You obviously have the receipts with your photos and possibly more info about a continuing problem. Airing it out here though will not achieve much in getting you a better resolve of the issue. 

[urqu3]

I guess you are correct but I could have written 10 pages on what took place. I was trying to consolidate the information as I did not think anyone would read 10 pages! 

[urqu3]

We booked direct with HAL

[Boatdrill]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:21 PM, cbr663 said:

 

 The deck condition alone warrants the cabin not be available.  

Why ?

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, urqu3 said:

Just to be more specific maintenance was in our cabin every day they took the toilet apart multiple times and they claim they replaced everything there was to replace! When that did not resolve the problem they went outside to the balcony and accessed some piping out there and carried many buckets of waste water through our cabin. That also did not resolve the issue. For those of you that claim I am ranting We were patient for 10 days of the cruise all the while being promised they would compensate us for the problem. When that compensation turned out to be an insult that's when I started to really complain and when Holland America just decided to ignore me completely that when I started to "rant" if you want to call it that. For all of you that don't believe this happened or keep defending HAL just think if it happened to you! we are not new cruisers. MY wife and I have been on over a dozen cruises (and yes we know how to use a cruise ship toilet) most with Celebrity where we enjoy Elite status! We took an Alaskan cruise with HAL in 2022 and loved it, that's why we decided to forgo our perks with Celebrity and cruise with HAL again. That turned out to be a big mistake. 

 

I hope ChengKP can offer us more insights regarding your report.  He has long been the go-to guy on all technical issues onboard ships. 

 

We had seriously  funky smells from our scuppers once on a cruise making our verandah unusable - the best they offered while on board (Amsterdam -Tales of the South Pacific) was to flush it out frequently and a later compensation.

 

Not pleasant, did not get the cabin we had anticipated but we carried on. And on that cruise into the tropics the verandah was often too hot to even enjoy anyway. We did chalk this up to accepting these things can and do happen on closed system ships. 80% rule.

 

All I can say is I am glad I did not let this one-off experience on a HAL cruise ruin our relationship, feel they did not "care" about us or keep the animosity festering months later hoping to score every tree in the forest.

 

And yes, we too had plumbing issues too and a few days where we had to work around it. There was a siege of posts a number of years back with lots of similar plumbing issues being reported. And then nothing until this one came up again. 

 

I see in the dry dock report President of HAL did specifically state they would be modernizing these basic ship utility services on the Vista class ship. Your squeaky will probably played a big part in this. 

[pmjnh]

7 hours ago, urqu3 said:

Not yet, I was hoping HAL would do the right thing and stand behind their product! But I guess that is always an option!

 

This is a horrible situation. We will be on the Oosterdam this fall after the dry dock. It will be interesting to hear if there are any plumbing issues after dry dock.

 

I am curious, though, and perhaps I missed it. When they had no cabins available, was this because the ship totally sold out or did they offer you a cabin in another category??

[BobbiSox]

That is a horrible situation and I'm so sorry that you had to tolerate it. The whole thing was  handled poorly. You should have been offered an apology, another cabin, and\or a full refund. The  'settlement' of the few dollars they offered was poor judgement on their part. It's shocking, really. I can't blame you if you never sail HAL again. 

[alwaysfrantic]

Apparently you are not the only one with issues.