Virgin fires a shot across Celebrity’s bow

[cgolf1]

We were briefly tempted to do a 3rd cruise this year and found VV to be above the price point we want to pay for a cruise, but we are pretty thrifty so I know that doesn't apply to all. Like others have said their itineraries really didn't jump out at us either. That said X didn't fair well either in that search and we would have ended up on HAL or most likely Princess. I have a coworker going on VV soon, so I will be interested to hear what he thought of it. VV sounds like an experience heavy cruise with an active nightlife. We go on a cruise to relax and not do much other than puzzle books and a few of the ships activities and shows, so VV may not be a fit for us, but we will try it some day.

[Cap_D]

Bravo VV for bringing attention to Celebrity's identity and service crisis.  Very similar to when Virgin America flew in the U.S.,  and to Virgin Group's image overall.  For those that want it, it will likely never be better as they build the brand and spend to grow. 

 

But, I don't see VV and Celebrity going for most of the same market.   VV is oriented to capture the adult fun with better than average food market in the Caribbean, and perhaps elsewhere, only.  For couples that desire that type of boutiquey vibe, Celebrity won't be able to compete with the possible exception of the Retreat (yet everything is still more laid back than VV) on Edge Class ships or those wanting more of a Westin vibe on the older ships.  VVs included food seems to win, and given the options, it doesn't seem close. 

 

Respectfully, the Caribbean and Mexican ports are all very interchangeable, and to the extent there's a favored beach club it's still not as nice as a beach at any resort of comparable cost (of an exterior cabin) or ship run island.  So, I don't think the ports options matter at least for the first cruise, and then only if there's a strong desire to explore and see a different similar port.  

 

Yet, for couples plus families, wanting a more relaxed experience, less music, more traditional food (regardless of the descriptions), and a bigger spread among fellow passengers than that's Celebrity.  There may be a few kids, ages from 20s to 100, maybe some music (more likely Sweet Caroline and not the latest Taylor Swift or electronica), and more conventional entertainment, and so on.  

 

VV seems to win though for younger couples or anyone wanting modern plus interesting food (and no excessive meat loaf or oddly cut steak) for a shorter cruise. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Cap_D

[Ex-Airbalancer]

Does Virgin America still flying ? 
There  was a Virgin cellphone company in Canada for about 5 years before the sold the company to a competitor 

maybe this will also happen to VV ? 

[markeb]

1 minute ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

Does Virgin America still flying ? 
There  was a Virgin cellphone company in Canada for about 5 years before the sold the company to a competitor 

maybe this will also happen to VV ? 

Probably. The holding company is owned in part by a venture capital firm. 

[rmedistro]

21 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

Does Virgin America still flying ? 
There  was a Virgin cellphone company in Canada for about 5 years before the sold the company to a competitor 

maybe this will also happen to VV ? 

They have flights from Orlando to Heathrow UK

[RedIguana]

The strange couch to bed to couch setup in the balcony cabins is the one point that makes me leery to try them. Hard to hang out on the couch while the other half naps if you don't have both at the same time. Also the Miami departures. As someone who drives to all the Florida ports, Miami is by far my least favorite.

[warmwinds]

25 minutes ago, markeb said:

Probably. The holding company is owned in part by a venture capital firm. 

I believe Virgin America was purchased by Alaska Airlines several years ago.

[scubagal44]

Just want to point out that VV does in fact offer longer than 4/5 night Caribbean sailings, I'm booked on a 7 night sailing in February.  

 

I've cruised both X and VV, and I don't think I'll be returning to X anytime soon with all of the goings on.  I also think most of you would be surprised by the actual demographic and atmosphere on board, but I get that you only know what you've seen in marketing campaigns and such.  Spoiler alert - all adult ages are on board!  It's much less "Las Vegas" than you'd think.

 

I couldn't care less who tries VV or not, I'd just caution against the quick assumptions.  In trying something new, you just might find something you really enjoy.  

[ISABELLA]

At this point, after cruising for over 30 years, we don't particular about Caribbean itinerary, but enjoying the food, service and some evening Entertaiment is important to us. 

[warmwinds]

21 minutes ago, scubagal44 said:

Just want to point out that VV does in fact offer longer than 4/5 night Caribbean sailings, I'm booked on a 7 night sailing in February.  

 

I've cruised both X and VV, and I don't think I'll be returning to X anytime soon with all of the goings on.  I also think most of you would be surprised by the actual demographic and atmosphere on board, but I get that you only know what you've seen in marketing campaigns and such.  Spoiler alert - all adult ages are on board!  It's much less "Las Vegas" than you'd think.

 

I couldn't care less who tries VV or not, I'd just caution against the quick assumptions.  In trying something new, you just might find something you really enjoy.  

Totally agree.  I was surprised how much we liked VV.  It sounds stupid to say I was expecting to dislike something, but we went in expecting that since we purposely chose something we felt would be the "anti-X", didn't want another mainstream clone.  Thought we would think, this was awful, let's stick with Celebrity.  Wow were we wrong.  I really think their commercials do the line a disservice - as evidenced by some of the comments here, some are expecting a hedonistic drunk fest with all young people, and nothing could have been further from reality. 

[basenji56]

51 minutes ago, warmwinds said:

.  I really think their commercials do the line a disservice - as evidenced by some of the comments here, some are expecting a hedonistic drunk fest with all young people, and nothing could have been further from reality. 

The commercials are what turned me off.  Seemed like it was Carnival for trust fund kids.

[markeb]

9 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

The commercials are what turned me off.  Seemed like it was Carnival for trust fund kids.

 

I've only found one commercial. Reminds me of early iPod commercials or commercials for W Hotels. I didn't find the commercial very representative of the product in either case (the product was better, for me, in both cases).

 

Doesn't everyone on the X board think Celebrity's commercials are totally non-representative of the actual cruise? That's a (exaggeration of) recurrent theme on this board over the years...

[markeb]

1 hour ago, rmedistro said:

They have flights from Orlando to Heathrow UK

 

That's Virgin Atlantic. Virgin America is now part of Alaska Airlines and doesn't exist as an independent company.

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

Does Virgin America still flying ? 
There  was a Virgin cellphone company in Canada for about 5 years before the sold the company to a competitor 

maybe this will also happen to VV ? 

 

Virgin America was acquired and killed off by Alaska Airlines.  Virgin Samoa is also gone while Virgin Australia and Virgin Atlantic (Europe) still exist

 

It doesn't appear Virgin Voyages is in jeopardy of being acquired yet perhaps a major cruise line's parent company buys a non-majority percentage

[NutsAboutGolf]

Another thing to remember about VV is they pay their crew a salary with benefits, give them free wi-fi and let them eat where passengers eat 

[hcat]

7 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

Another thing to remember about VV is they pay their crew a salary with benefits, give them free wi-fi and let them eat where passengers eat 

Crew area  on E Class is amazing as shown in the ship's tour..They get phone cards and days off as reward..no idea abt wifi, salary or benefits.

 

Some clients/customers will  peel off to other lines. some will stay. Some will not book anything for awhile!

[Cachecara]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:08 PM, Baggy178 said:

In all fairness who needs a cabin cleaned more than once a day anyway.

But for the rest Virgin seems to have their finger on the pulse.

Amen.  I don’t want someone in more than once a day.  
How does price compare across the staterooms, would be my issue.  

[kwokpot]

20 hours ago, Team Stag said:

I like their edgy advertising.  And strike while the iron is hot. 

We booked our fall cruise this year with Virgin.  We haven't really had a bad Celebrity trip.  But for us, the one thing Covid changed for us - we will always sail with a real balcony going forward.  Which meant, the E-Class Oceanview room with glass that goes down but controlled by someone else is not an option.  We did some Sky Suites while the prices were low; but now that demand is back it was time to look for something else.  Just to see.  And when we returned; we booked our next cruise with Celebrity.

They do some stuff different for sure.  They cover it in the ad.  Let's start with the room.  The red hammock is a nice touch.  One night - I dozed off in it while listening to the music from the pool deck & looking at the starts.  It was great.  But the other chair is so uncomfortable that you aren't sitting in it long.  Which means two people don't get the chance to enjoy the balcony together for any extended period of time.  The room looks like it's decorated by Ikea.  The bed is so low to the ground that you have to unzip your suitcases in half to get them to fit.  Not a huge deal; except for being a little older & trying to get out of bed at 3:00 a.m. with a bad knee was always a fun experience.  And for the record, they only clean the room.  I did't think it would matter; but we really missed the turndown service.  We didn't know how much we enjoyed it; until it wasn't there.  And the lack of couch in a standard balcony room was also missed.  There one chair - slightly more comfortable than the metal thing on the balcony but not comfortable enough to sit long term.  I never thought I'd miss a couch; but apparently I sit on it more than I remember.  

The food.  We love food.  Our family celebrates life with food.  We love all food and respect the effort and style of the different chefs who prepare it.  It doesn't have to be fancy or expensive for us to enjoy a product that those in the kitchen work so hard to make.  So hearing about Celebrity taking a step back was always concerning to us.  Hearing how great VV food is was a big reason we booked with them.  The food is really good. The sourcing (quality) is better than standard Celebrity fare - if we are looking solely at base ingredients.  The preparation was a more basic than Celebrity.  It lacked flavors to make a meal outstanding.  We complain on this board about Lobster.  VV solved that issue by not serving any.  We did order the seafood platter in Wake to compare to raw on 5.  The quality of VV platter was not as good as what we have on Celebrity.  Many on here would have fun reviewing their lobster tail 😄 .  There was tons of fun food that we liked around the ship - Popcorn, soft pretzels, etc.  The hamburger was definitely better than the grill (but not better than lumanie burger).  And we complain on here about menu cuts; the VV menus are pretty simple as well - just a handful of dishes; so longer cruises the food will get repetitive.  

We have done the all included so regularly with Celebrity; items like no Tips, or wifi included was not a noticeable change for us.  Leaving with a bar bill was.  Everyone we talked to was having an incredible time.  A common theme was "one of the best cruises I've ever been on".  And most of those people were coming from Carnival.  With a few from Norwegian.  I did not meet anyone who cruised Celebrity regularly.  Although we did see one of their beach bags on someone's shoulder.

The night time entertainment was lively.  I can honestly say we willingly stayed up later than we have on any other cruise & we danced (we don't often) more than any other cruise.  It was a great product.  We will return. But as someone who plays an Engineer in real life and is focused on Efficiency & Water Reduction (& Lean manufacturing & Six Sigma and whatever buzz word to increase production, eliminate waste and raise profits is) - there were noticeable things.   For example, no table clothes.  Even in their "fine dining / speciality restaurants".  One less thing to change, one less thing to wash.  No real uniforms for the staff.  They basically wore polos.  Again - no uniforms for them to clean and press.  The crew ate with the passengers (no additional dining area).  And bottled water was no where to be found.  Anywhere.  It was fill up your cup at the water station (although carafe of water in the room was nice).

 

I encourage people to branch out and try something new.  You may find something you like better than Celebrity.  You also may realize that Celebrity isn't that bad.  Cheers.

Your review of Virgin hits it pretty much on the head. I whole hardly agree that the Virgin cabins below suites are not as luxurious as Celebrity's E-Class and having sailed 2x in an XL Terrace cabin, the top cabin below suites, the design while modern resembles a college dorm room. The large bathroom is the best thing about it and their innovative bed to couch doesn't really work and I also prefer a traditional bed and sofa combination. 

 

I always like say a Virgin cruise is an upscale adults only Carnival cruise in that the spirit and overall experience on a Virgin cruise is closer to Carnival than Celebrity. Celebrity consistently wants to go in the direction that Virgin does, hence the Edge Class, but it consistently has to pull back and introduce more traditional cruise vacation elements because the Celebrity loyalists aren't interested in the avant garde cruise experience (remember the Eden Interactive show push backs?)

As always do your research. Someone on this thread rightly determined Virgin isn't for them and will consider Crystal vs Celebrity or Virgin. Not remotely in the same league. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by kwokpot

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

Crew area  on E Class is amazing as shown in the ship's tour..They get phone cards and days off as reward..no idea abt wifi, salary or benefits.

 

Some clients/customers will  peel off to other lines. some will stay. Some will not book anything for awhile!

 

According to Business Insider for 2018 on the big three based on an average of 35 workers, these are the salaries for those regular workers not in leadership roles.  We have to remember often they work 100+ hours a week, often work seven days a week, and rarely work an entire year as their contracts give them time off

 

Annual 2018 salary:

Carnival: $16,622
Royal Caribbean Cruises: $19,396
Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings: $20,101

 

You would have to imagine Celebrity and Princess do not pay much more

[NutsAboutGolf]

38 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

Your review of Virgin hits it pretty much on the head. I whole hardly agree that the Virgin cabins below suites are not as luxurious as Celebrity's E-Class and having sailed 2x in an XL Terrace cabin, the top cabin below suites, the design while modern resembles a college dorm room. The large bathroom is the best thing about it and their innovative bed to couch doesn't really work and I also prefer a traditional bed and sofa combination. 

 

I always like say a Virgin cruise is an upscale adults only Carnival cruise in that the spirit and overall experience on a Virgin cruise is closer to Carnival than Celebrity. Celebrity consistently wants to go in the direction that Virgin does, hence the Edge Class, but it consistently has to pull back and introduce more traditional cruise vacation elements because the Celebrity loyalists aren't interested in the avant garde cruise experience (remember the Eden Interactive show push backs?)

As always do your research. Someone on this thread rightly determined Virgin isn't for them and will consider Crystal vs Celebrity or Virgin. Not remotely in the same league. 

 

I have never been on VV yet have been told it's like an NCL experience with Crystal/Silver Seas caliber food, no idea if others feel the same way

[kwokpot]

4 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I have never been on VV yet have been told it's like an NCL experience with Crystal/Silver Seas caliber food, no idea if others feel the same way

I don't see how Virgin is like NCL.  

[warmwinds]

6 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I have never been on VV yet have been told it's like an NCL experience with Crystal/Silver Seas caliber food, no idea if others feel the same way

I guess you would have had to be recently on both NCL and Silver Seas/Crystal to be able to make the comparison.  Very few people would have that range of experience.

 

Several years ago when in Blu, who at the time we loved, there was a couple who were refugees from a cancelled Crystal Cruise, their first choice.  We happened to sit next to them a couple of times in Blu and they were very nice.  On the last night, I asked them what they thought of Celebrity compared to Crystal....WELL, I have never been dressed down so severely in my life.  She went on and on about how Celebrity was a JOKE, do they call this gourmet? (this was when Blu was in its prime)...she said the food  is not even what they throw away on Crystal...at that moment I knew I would NEVER be happy on Crystal with people who had their noses so far up in the air.  Couple that with someone my husband worked with who was also a Crystal fan and who was also one of the biggest snobs I've ever met.

 

NCL?  Although it was my first cruise back in 1976 I know very little about them.

 

And on my recent, first, VV cruise, we really enjoyed the food, from the most upscale dinner to the most basic breakfast or lunch.  It just resonated with us.

 

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 minute ago, warmwinds said:

I guess you would have had to be recently on both NCL and Silver Seas/Crystal to be able to make the comparison.  Very few people would have that range of experience.

 

Several years ago when in Blu, who at the time we loved, there was a couple who were refugees from a cancelled Crystal Cruise, their first choice.  We happened to sit next to them a couple of times in Blu and they were very nice.  On the last night, I asked them what they thought of Celebrity compared to Crystal....WELL, I have never been dressed down so severely in my life.  She went on and on about how Celebrity was a JOKE, do they call this gourmet? (this was when Blu was in its prime)...she said the food  is not even what they throw away on Crystal...at that moment I knew I would NEVER be happy on Crystal with people who had their noses so far up in the air.  Couple that with someone my husband worked with who was also a Crystal fan and who was also one of the biggest snobs I've ever met.

 

NCL?  Although it was my first cruise back in 1976 I know very little about them.

 

And on my recent, first, VV cruise, we really enjoyed the food, from the most upscale dinner to the most basic breakfast or lunch.  It just resonated with us.

 

 

 

Interesting.  I was on one single Crystal sailing but that was Genting owned, no idea if the food is the same/better/worse currently with the new owners.  Food on my sailing was great, they had a Nobu (for a fee) but nothing knocked our socks off yet was better than most.  X has some food winners and losers, IMO, the winners double cheese souffle, jerk chicken, and onion soup.  Are they the best ever?  No, but they are better than most.  IMO the X food losers are the hot dogs which are the only things I've said are awful/throw-away, Mast Grill burgers and the baked desserts which just aren't worth the calories and some cakes have lots of gelatin in them for some reason.  You're much better off with the ice cream

[cluso]

47 minutes ago, warmwinds said:

  On the last night, I asked them what they thought of Celebrity compared to Crystal....WELL, I have never been dressed down so severely in my life.  She went on and on about how Celebrity was a JOKE, do they call this gourmet? (this was when Blu was in its prime)...she said the food  is not even what they throw away on Crystal...at that moment I knew I would NEVER be happy on Crystal with people who had their noses so far up in the air.  Couple that with someone my husband worked with who was also a Crystal fan and who was also one of the biggest snobs I've ever met.

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting.  My parents were big time cruisers. Our first cruise as a family was from Honolulu to Los Angeles in 1971.  SS Monterey.  LA was so full of smog, it was awful.  My mother had done some banana boats to Cuba in the 40's with girlfriends.  Fast forward.  They did lots of cruises in the 80's and 90's.  They did 1 Crystal cruise and were totally turned off by the snobbish clientele.  They liked the ship and even bought me the Crystal Cookbook.  But they never booked a Crystal cruise again.  

[eroller]

Brilliant marketing by Virgin and 100% true.  I’m glad they are calling out other players in the industry.  All the majors are guilty of charging more while cutting back and providing less.  Yes they all put a spin on it but the end result is the same.  Pay more to get less.  
 

I’ve only sailed on one VV cruise and absolutely loved it.  I was prepared to hate it and the opposite was true.  I even put down a future deposit while on the cruise, which is something I never do.