Miss leading free drink package

[MoCruiseFan]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:35 PM, realnice46 said:

From what I can see if you choose all inclusive with Celebrity drinks and Wi-Fi include these is no extra charge on the drink package. NCL seems to be a bait and switch making you think you have all inclusive and you don’t when you view the final price.

Nothing was switched.  The full terms of the FAS are explained pre-purchase,  They advertise free drinks and that is what you get, free drinks.  You still pay the gratuities and rightfully so.  If it makes you feel better to pay full price for soemting you can have for free then by all menas turn down the free drink package and pay for it out of pocket.  That'll show 'em!

[MoCruiseFan]

On 2/16/2024 at 3:25 AM, havoc315 said:

It’s literally a thread about what NCL calls gratuities.  

Literally? WOW!

[MoCruiseFan]

On 2/16/2024 at 6:12 AM, rodndonna said:

I just checked today's banner - 

 

FREE 2nd ,FREE $250, FREE Ulimited OpenBar, AIR,More

 

Do I really think when it shows a fare of $1000 - my husband will be Free and we will get $250 and the bar is free and the airfare is free ....

 

so $750 fare for 2 of us to fly, cruise, drink and more - sign me up!!!! 

 

"FREE" is a term used very liberally in marketing ... by everybody and all cruiselines.

 

TANSTAAFL!

[tcmagnum]

If more people would do the research, then there would be more people not mistaken.  Not misleading.  It’s how THiS cruise line does things.  Each cruise line does things their own way.  When you pick a cruise, then you should do your research and not assume.  We need more people to be ‘responsible for their decisions’.  

[havoc315]

4 hours ago, bortman23 said:

 

Yes, I believe that the gratuities are such, and are going to team members. 

Anyone can "suspect" anything. I suspect you're a bot, that doesn't mean it's true or correct. I'll believe NCL pockets the money when I'm shown undeniable proof of it.

I honestly don’t know.  But if every penny is being given to the bat staff, then the bartenders would be making about $1,000-$2,000 per day. (Or about $7,000-$14,000 per week… $30,000-$60,000 per month). If that’s the case, great for them!

If that’s not the case, then suggesting the 20% is a gratuity is extremely misleading

 

And I wonder, if they are willing to give unlimited alcohol and soda for “free” to those over 21, why aren’t they willing to give “free” soda to those under 21?  Doesn’t make sense… if the 20% is truly just being used for bar staff gratuities.  

 

[havoc315]

2 hours ago, tcmagnum said:

If more people would do the research, then there would be more people not mistaken.  Not misleading.  It’s how THiS cruise line does things.  Each cruise line does things their own way.  When you pick a cruise, then you should do your research and not assume.  We need more people to be ‘responsible for their decisions’.  

Think you’re confusing a lie for a misleading statement. 
 

If you have to do “research”… finding that the words don’t have their usual meaning.. that’s what makes something misleading. 
It’s not a “lie”—- since there is an asterisk, and on page 5 of the terms and conditions, you can learn there are charges so it’s not actually free… 

 

A “lie” is a statement plainly untrue.

A “misleading statement” is a statement that suggests one thing, but more “research” shows is means something else.  
 

Yes— lots of cruise lines use misleading marketing. yes, lots of companies engage in misleading marketing, not just cruise lines.  
Jist because it’s common, doesn’t mean it’s not misleading. 

 

[bortman23]

18 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

bartenders would be making about $1,000-$2,000 per day. (Or about $7,000-$14,000 per week… $30,000-$60,000 per month).

 

You have no way of knowing the total number of bar staff per ship, so you're not able to make an accurate calculation. There are also way more behind the scenes staff that support the bar staff who likely share the gratuities (much like land bars and restaurants)

 

A100% of the guests in the sailing do not get the drinks package (via FAS or otherwise), and there's also no way to know this number.

 

[zqvol]

2 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

 

You have no way of knowing the total number of bar staff per ship, so you're not able to make an accurate calculation. There are also way more behind the scenes staff that support the bar staff who likely share the gratuities (much like land bars and restaurants)

 

A100% of the guests in the sailing do not get the drinks package (via FAS or otherwise), and there's also no way to know this number.

 

Please don’t confuse him with facts. 

[IAcruising]

30 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

But if every penny is being given to the bat staff, then the bartenders would be making about $1,000-$2,000 per day. (Or about $7,000-$14,000 per week… $30,000-$60,000 per month). If that’s the case, great for them!

 

Wow. Pulling numbers out the arse is easy. How about backing them up?

 

[SeaShark]

2 minutes ago, IAcruising said:

 

Wow. Pulling numbers out the arse is easy. How about backing them up?

 

 

Come now, he isn't going to back up his misleading numbers...he has a narrative to push.

[PaperSniper4]

5 hours ago, UKstages said:

 

how exactly were you "stung?"

 

are you saying the price you paid was somehow different than your invoice or included charges, fees or gratuities not mentioned in your contract?

 

As others have probably said, I had to pay gratuities on the drinks and specialty dining package. Yes, that I would have to is buried somewhere in the contract or elsewhere, but I still think it's sneaky the way NCL does it. Doesn't bother me anymore, I know I will be charged that unless I have my TA get me the prince including those gratuities and putting that info on my invoice.

 

 Doug

 

[hallux]

19 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

You have no way of knowing the total number of bar staff per ship, so you're not able to make an accurate calculation. There are also way more behind the scenes staff that support the bar staff who likely share the gratuities (much like land bars and restaurants)

and it's more than bar staff - the Sommelier's (spelling?) at the dining rooms and specialty restaurants would also get a cut...

[IAcruising]

5 minutes ago, hallux said:

and it's more than bar staff - the Sommelier's (spelling?) at the dining rooms and specialty restaurants would also get a cut...

 

And don't forget the runners who have to go to the coffee shop every time an espresso martini is ordered!  (had to throw in a Bird reference there) 

 

[havoc315]

8 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

 

You have no way of knowing the total number of bar staff per ship, so you're not able to make an accurate calculation. There are also way more behind the scenes staff that support the bar staff who likely share the gratuities (much like land bars and restaurants)

 

A100% of the guests in the sailing do not get the drinks package (via FAS or otherwise), and there's also no way to know this number.

 

Correct, the $1,000-$2,000 per day was pretty conservative. May be more like $4,000-$6,000 per day.  Could be at low as $500 per day… if there are more bar attendants than room stewards and housekeepers.  
 

We actually can do the math backwards. 
 

According to Glassdoor, NCL bartenders earn $1,000-$2,000 per month in tips. So $33 to $66 per day in tips. 
 

If guests are paying $22 per day — that means there is 1 bartender / bar staff for every 1.5-3 people paying for the drink package. 
 

Let’s do the math… NCL Encore — capacity of 4,000 with 2 people per cabin. Those first 2 are typically adults, getting FAS.  But let’s be conservative — only 3,000 on FAS.  So 1.5-3 people per 1 bar staff.  
That would mean the Encore has 1,000-1,500 bar staff members.. But total crew is 1735. 
So, if the gratuities are truly being used as gratuities for the bar staff (including sommeliers, bar waiters, etc) — that means  60-90% of the staff is bar staff. 
 

Hmmm, the numbers just aren’t adding up.  
 

 

 

[Greenpea2]

On 2/15/2024 at 10:05 PM, Two Wheels Only said:

You can also decline the promo and pay for drinks à la carte.

You will then have a 20% service charge added to each drink. 

Your choice. 

 

 

Exactly. It really is pretty simple--you get a choice. I can understand the first time someone has the opportunity to get "Free Beverage Package" and clicks to get it--then you see there are gratuities. An initial thought of "Well, that was misleading..." but then you decide. Is it worth it? If you drink a few alcoholic bevs each day, yup. Totally worth it. You choose and go on. Marketing is what it is. Always read the fine print.

Edited February 17 by Greenpea2

[havoc315]

41 minutes ago, IAcruising said:

 

Wow. Pulling numbers out the arse is easy. How about backing them up?

 

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-Holdings-Ltd-Bartender-Salaries-E9937_D_KO35,44.htm

 

https://cruiseradio.net/smallest-to-largest-norwegian-cruise-line-ships-by-size/

[Greenpea2]

On 2/15/2024 at 10:23 PM, Mrearl said:

Celebrity free drink package includes gratuities in their drink package. 
Their 14 day cruises are basically cheaper due to not paying gratuities for the drink package.

They should not advertise free drink packages,it is not if you have to pay and additional $690 for gratuity 

I do understand what you are saying. But technically the drinks ARE free. Any drink you buy with/without the package has automatic gratuities added. May sound sneaky (and I suppose it is, a little) but I think most people look closely at a deal to see what it really is worth. 

[Greenpea2]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:41 AM, havoc315 said:

NCL is the one trying to create a narrative. 
Yes, lots of companies in their marketing and advertising throw around the word “free” very loosely.  Because they know it’s an appealing word. 
 

And most consumers come to understand it usually just means “included in the base price.”

NCL is taking a couple more steps beyond this — not included in base price at all, but you still have to pay a pretty significant amount. 
Then, a further step — they are calling it “gratuities”— but it does not appear to actually represent gratuities. A gratuity is an optional payment given to staff above their salary. is that what the money is actually being used for? (I don’t know the answer… maybe someone here does know). And as a gratuity is an optional payment, can I opt for FAS but opt out of the gratuity?

 

and on a discussion forum, what’s wrong with discussing it????

 

 

But even without the "Free" package, gratuities are added to all alcoholic drink tabs (among some others as well). So yes, it actually IS a gratuity. One you would pay either way. You don't get a choice on that either way you go.

[Greenpea2]

1 hour ago, havoc315 said:

Think you’re confusing a lie for a misleading statement. 
 

If you have to do “research”… finding that the words don’t have their usual meaning.. that’s what makes something misleading. 
It’s not a “lie”—- since there is an asterisk, and on page 5 of the terms and conditions, you can learn there are charges so it’s not actually free… 

 

A “lie” is a statement plainly untrue.

A “misleading statement” is a statement that suggests one thing, but more “research” shows is means something else.  
 

Yes— lots of cruise lines use misleading marketing. yes, lots of companies engage in misleading marketing, not just cruise lines.  
Jist because it’s common, doesn’t mean it’s not misleading. 

 

Honestly? To me, as asterisk only means "Better check what that asterisk means before I decide."

[bortman23]

24 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-Holdings-Ltd-Bartender-Salaries-E9937_D_KO35,44.htm

 

https://cruiseradio.net/smallest-to-largest-norwegian-cruise-line-ships-by-size/

 

Again, all assumptions and guestimations.

 

"Glassdoor salaries are powered by our proprietary machine learning model" - aka basically useless in your scenario 

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, PaperSniper4 said:

As others have probably said, I had to pay gratuities on the drinks and specialty dining package. Yes, that I would have to is buried somewhere in the contract or elsewhere, but I still think it's sneaky the way NCL does it.

 

If you DIDN'T have a package, you would have paid 20% on each drink and on each meal in addition to the cost of the drink and/or meal. 

 

Knowing what you now know, would you rather take the promo and pay the 20% on the package(s) or pay a la carte? Neither is wrong (personal preference) but more people than not are better off with the promo. 

Edited February 17 by Two Wheels Only

[rodndonna]

1 hour ago, PaperSniper4 said:

As others have probably said, I had to pay gratuities on the drinks and specialty dining package. Yes, that I would have to is buried somewhere in the contract or elsewhere, but I still think it's sneaky the way NCL does it. Doesn't bother me anymore, I know I will be charged that unless I have my TA get me the prince including those gratuities and putting that info on my invoice.

 

 Doug

 

 

I didn't think you could book FAS and not have the gratuities for those added to your invoice. It adds them in automatically on the invoice the same way it adds port charges and taxes. They're not like DSC gratuities that you  can "optionally" choose to add to the invoice. 

[cruiser2015]

6 hours ago, julig22 said:

Do you believe that 100% of any tips (manditory or optional) you leave at a restaurant go just to your server? Maybe they do, maybe they are distributed among all the employees, maybe management takes a cut.

And I have seen what was purported to be a pay-stub for a bar tender - real or not, I cannot say.  But it it did show tips based on the hours worked in the bar.

Odds are that the #'s on that document do not represent the funds that actually changed hands

[hallux]

24 minutes ago, rodndonna said:

I didn't think you could book FAS and not have the gratuities for those added to your invoice.

You absolutely CAN book a FAS room and decline the beverage package, removing the need to pay the beverage service charge.  I've done it on every cruise I've taken on NCL.

[IAcruising]

1 hour ago, havoc315 said:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-Holdings-Ltd-Bartender-Salaries-E9937_D_KO35,44.htm

 

 

Would you agree that somewhere on the Internet I can find that bartenders on cruise ships are making far more than $1000 per month?

 

In addition, your 3000 out 4000 passengers may be far too high. You have to exclude anyone under 21, and anyone who declines the drink package. For example, that would be 3/4 of my extended family who might, might have a glass of wine or a beer at dinner.

 

Finally, you have no clue who is included in the receipt of the drink package gratuities. How about the MDR servers who bring 4 drinks to the table? How about the runners who stock the bar? The staff that washes the bar glasses? Maybe the laundry staff who wash the bartender/server uniforms?

 

Point is, it's all pure speculation.