Miss leading free drink package

[graphicguy]

11 hours ago, realnice46 said:

From what I can see if you choose all inclusive with Celebrity drinks and Wi-Fi include these is no extra charge on the drink package. NCL seems to be a bait and switch making you think you have all inclusive and you don’t when you view the final price.

Yeah....but their fares are much higher to make up for it.  

 

It's the total out of pocket that matters.

 

Ask yourself if individually you'll drink $22 in liquor, beer, wine and sodas per day.  That's the cost.  If not, don't include it in your FAS.

 

BTW...that figures out to be 2-3 drinks per day per person.

Edited February 16 by graphicguy

[Liljo22]

41 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

It's the total out of pocket that matters.

This is how I treat every booking.  I look at the total out of pocket and compare against other cruise lines with the drink packages added.  I get the drink package on every cruise because it makes sense for my wife and I.  NCL usually is the better deal but sometimes its not.  

 

Royal is making very hard though because they have increased their package costs so much over the last year.  I was looking at a cruise at the end of last year where the discounted package rate was $82.99pppd before gratuity.  That is 7 drink breakeven point.  

[wolft927]

Again, I look at the Total cost of the cruise. Wife and I always get a drink package no matter what the cruise line. I will say RCCL is the highest I think I ever paid. I believe it was almost $1200 for the both of us. 

[havoc315]

2 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

Depends. It is "free" as in "no cost", or "free" as in "free to enjoy drinks without the worry of a huge bar bill at the end of the cruise"? NCL's moniker is "freestyle" cruising? Does that mean you don't pay for cruises?

 

Since everyone knows that nothing is "really free", it doesn't need to be pointed out, and yes, those who want to point it out to create a narrative are being misleading.

NCL is the one trying to create a narrative. 
Yes, lots of companies in their marketing and advertising throw around the word “free” very loosely.  Because they know it’s an appealing word. 
 

And most consumers come to understand it usually just means “included in the base price.”

NCL is taking a couple more steps beyond this — not included in base price at all, but you still have to pay a pretty significant amount. 
Then, a further step — they are calling it “gratuities”— but it does not appear to actually represent gratuities. A gratuity is an optional payment given to staff above their salary. is that what the money is actually being used for? (I don’t know the answer… maybe someone here does know). And as a gratuity is an optional payment, can I opt for FAS but opt out of the gratuity?

 

and on a discussion forum, what’s wrong with discussing it????

 

 

[SeaShark]

3 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

NCL is the one trying to create a narrative. 
Yes, lots of companies in their marketing and advertising throw around the word “free” very loosely.  Because they know it’s an appealing word. 
 

And most consumers come to understand it usually just means “included in the base price.”

NCL is taking a couple more steps beyond this — not included in base price at all, but you still have to pay a pretty significant amount. 
Then, a further step — they are calling it “gratuities”— but it does not appear to actually represent gratuities. A gratuity is an optional payment given to staff above their salary. is that what the money is actually being used for? (I don’t know the answer… maybe someone here does know). And as a gratuity is an optional payment, can I opt for FAS but opt out of the gratuity?

 

and on a discussion forum, what’s wrong with discussing it????

 

How is NCL trying to create a narrative? You make accusations, but provide nothing to support them (this tactic IS, in fact, creating a narrative). You also accuse NCL of not including it in the base price...again, with nothing to support that. Why?

 

Nothing wrong with discussing on a discussion forum. However, NOBODY said there was something wrong with discussing it. So again, here is an accusation without supporting evidence...you're trying to argue something that was never said. IOW, who even said that there was something wrong with discussing it?

 

All of the information about the product and its costs are out there and available for guests to review prior to purchase. It isn't misleading on NCL's part if some people don't bother to read and understand the information.

[mjkacmom]

30 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

NCL is the one trying to create a narrative. 
Yes, lots of companies in their marketing and advertising throw around the word “free” very loosely.  Because they know it’s an appealing word. 
 

And most consumers come to understand it usually just means “included in the base price.”

NCL is taking a couple more steps beyond this — not included in base price at all, but you still have to pay a pretty significant amount. 
Then, a further step — they are calling it “gratuities”— but it does not appear to actually represent gratuities. A gratuity is an optional payment given to staff above their salary. is that what the money is actually being used for? (I don’t know the answer… maybe someone here does know). And as a gratuity is an optional payment, can I opt for FAS but opt out of the gratuity?

 

and on a discussion forum, what’s wrong with discussing it????

 

 

If you purchase a drink on a cruise, a gratuity will be added and can’t be removed. If you purchase a full price drink package, a gratuity will be added and can’t be removed. If you purchase specialty dining meal, a gratuity will be added, if you purchase a specialty dining package, a gratuity will be added. 

[havoc315]

26 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

How is NCL trying to create a narrative? You make accusations, but provide nothing to support them (this tactic IS, in fact, creating a narrative). You also accuse NCL of not including it in the base price...again, with nothing to support that. Why?

 

huh? You mean they don’t market “Free at Sea”?

You mean they don’t charge more for it?

 

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Nothing wrong with discussing on a discussion forum. However, NOBODY said there was something wrong with discussing it. So again, here is an accusation without supporting evidence...you're trying to argue something that was never said. IOW, who even said that there was something wrong with discussing it?

 

 

You blatantly stated “it doesn’t need to point it out”..

and claimed that pointing out well established facts is somehow “misleading”

 

An honest discussion of facts is “misleading” — your bizarre accusation. 
 

 

 

26 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

All of the information about the product and its costs are out there and available for guests to review prior to purchase. It isn't misleading on NCL's part if some people don't bother to read and understand the information.

Lol.  Companies in American jurisdiction have gotten into lots of trouble burying terms in fine print. Under some circumstances, it meets the definition of consumer fraud.  

[Two Wheels Only]

44 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

Then, a further step — they are calling it “gratuities”— but it does not appear to actually represent gratuities.

 

NCL has called it a "gratuity".

NCL has called it a "service charge".

NCL has called it a "gratuity and service charge".

 

47 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

And as a gratuity is an optional payment, can I opt for FAS but opt out of the gratuity?

 

No. The two are together. 

You can take the promo and not pay for the PBP but pay the 20% on the PBP.

or

You can not take the promo and pay for each drink and pay 20% on each drink. 

 

7 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

Lol.  Companies in American jurisdiction have gotten into lots of trouble burying terms in fine print. Under some circumstances, it meets the definition of consumer fraud.  

 

One of the differences with NCL is that you can see the total and can see the added gratuities/service charges before you even enter names and way before entering a payment. 

 

A better argument could be made for the DSC since newbie cruisers might not know about that and won't know about it until after they book/pay. On the flip side, the DSC can be removed if the newbie knows that it can be removed. That's a topic for another day but as far as the 20% added to drinks, specialty dining, souvenirs, spa treatments, etc., those things are optional even if the 20% isn't optional. 

[yakcruiser]

It's amazing how many threads eventually work their way back to tipping.

[WickedRed]

They do sell a drink package.  It's $109.00 per day plus gratuity and service charge.  If you take the free promo, then you're not paying the $109.00 a day.  Sounds like free to me, especially since the gratuity and service charges aren't included in the regular fee either. 

 

Who buys the beverage package anyways?  Even if you get a sailaway room that doesn't include the FAS promo, getting the beverage package is NOT a deal. 

[havoc315]

3 minutes ago, WickedRed said:

They do sell a drink package.  It's $109.00 per day plus gratuity and service charge.  If you take the free promo, then you're not paying the $109.00 a day.  Sounds like free to me, especially since the gratuity and service charges aren't included in the regular fee either. 

 

Who buys the beverage package anyways?  Even if you get a sailaway room that doesn't include the FAS promo, getting the beverage package is NOT a deal. 

Since it’s a promo that runs 100% of the time, I don’t think anybody is paying the $109.  

[kylenyc]

Hopefully this will all be moot in the future in light of...

• Recent California legislation to ensure fees are clear and visible. i.e. fees are presented up front at the start and not at the end of the billing process.
• Similar legislation in the works at the federal level and by other cities and states.

 

 

Edited February 16 by kylenyc

[hallux]

11 minutes ago, kylenyc said:

fees are presented up front at the start and not at the end of the billing process.

It can be argued that the fees ARE presented - if you read the terms and understand that the beverage service charge of 20% of the retail cost of the package is the responsibility of the passenger.

[LloydJr]

11 minutes ago, kylenyc said:

Hopefully this will all be moot in the future in light of...

I think it's all moot right now.  Everybody here knows exactly how it works, but some just feel compelled to complain about something/everything.  Regardless of how laws change, there will still be complaining.

[PTC DAWG]

14 hours ago, Russiamomm said:

Completely agree with this.  I always look at the total cost vs. the so-called “free” perks.  We went on an RCCL trip last year and declined the drink package because of the cost.  One frozen drink at the pool was more than $17!  That would have almost paid for a full day of drinks on NCL.

 

I haven’t been on Celebrity, but I’m willing to bet that that all inclusive package is significantly higher than a bare bones fare.  You have to compare apples to apples.

I sail Celebrity a good bit, it is higher than the bare bones fare..math is hard for some people...

[PTC DAWG]

19 minutes ago, kylenyc said:

Hopefully this will all be moot in the future in light of...

• Recent California legislation to ensure fees are clear and visible. i.e. fees are presented up front at the start and not at the end of the billing process.
• Similar legislation in the works at the federal level and by other cities and states.

 

 

High we're from the Govt and we're here to help, that rarely works out in cases like this.  The math here is not hard people...2-3 drinks a day FAS is a no brainer.  

 

I'll also ask, where is the Miss leading us regarding the drink package? 🙂

Edited February 16 by PTC DAWG

[detroitlions]

All the NCL ships are booking 100% full so I guess people do not mind paying the not so free fees.

Marketing is all around us for everything. Try buying a car for the price that draws you in for that test drive that they bug the hell out of you to do. I guarantee you pay a lot more in the end for that car. By the way I hate that sales pitch to come in for a test drive such a scam. I also hate the over priced warrantees they make you say yes or no too. I always say no.

[Liljo22]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

I sail Celebrity a good bit, it is higher than the bare bones fare..math is hard for some people...

This is what I never get.  I shop around a lot and I never find Celebrity to have a free drink package.  I am sure it happens but more often its not given free.  If you want to all included package that has drinks and wi-fi, its $1000 more a person for a 14 day cruise.  The OP is more than happy to pay the extra $2k because they don't call it tips but complains about $690 because of how its worded.  SMH

 

Edited February 16 by Liljo22

[graphicguy]

It says right on the front page....."terms and conditions apply".

 

And, they provide the link for them.

 

Here they are in case you get confused (as some always seem to be regardless of Cruiseline promo)...

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/terms-and-conditions/promotions

[G-DawgMN]

7 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

It says right on the front page....."terms and conditions apply".

 

And, they provide the link for them.

 

Here they are in case you get confused (as some always seem to be regardless of Cruiseline promo)...

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/terms-and-conditions/promotions

 

 Why should people have to read?

 

 

[SeaShark]

37 minutes ago, Liljo22 said:

This is what I never get.  I shop around a lot and I never find Celebrity to have a free drink package.  I am sure it happens but more often its not given free.  If you want to all included package that has drinks and wi-fi, its $1000 more a person for a 14 day cruise.  The OP is more than happy to pay the extra $2k because they don't call it tips but complains about $690 because of how its worded.  SMH

 

 

Gotta laugh when you look at the above and notice that the "All Included" description even says "Tips charged separately".

 

Not to mention the marketing aspect of "All Included" vs "All Inclusive".

[SeaShark]

1 minute ago, KSSS2013 said:

 

 Why should people have to read?

 

 

 

They actually don't. That is what is great about it. You can call your PCC or TA and they can explain it all to you verbally. 

 

No reading required.

[Panhandle Couple]

Miss Leading was my 3rd grade teacher, if my memory is correct.

 

 

[SeaShark]

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

huh? You mean they don’t market “Free at Sea”?

You mean they don’t charge more for it?

 

You mean, you mean, you mean...no, I don't mean your misleading interpretation, I only mean what I specifically wrote. Your continued confusion over the no cost vs no worry aspect of the marketing shows your continued attempts to promote your bad faith narrative. I'm simply not buying it, but you'll still try to sell it nonetheless.

 

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

You blatantly stated “it doesn’t need to point it out”..

and claimed that pointing out well established facts is somehow “misleading”

 

An honest discussion of facts is “misleading” — your bizarre accusation.

 

I did no such thing. I said pointing out well established facts as though they weren't well established is misleading. I never said an honest discussion of facts is "misleading". 

 

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

Lol.  Companies in American jurisdiction have gotten into lots of trouble burying terms in fine print. Under some circumstances, it meets the definition of consumer fraud.  

 

Shame is that there is no "fine print" here. It's all right there, something you've already admitted that is known and well established. Again..."under some cirucumstances" a phrasing that is misleading as it infers that this circumstance is one of the "some" referred to. Accusation without evidence. Textbook misleading.

[havoc315]

1 hour ago, SeaShark said:

 

You mean, you mean, you mean...no, I don't mean your misleading interpretation, I only mean what I specifically wrote. Your continued confusion over the no cost vs no worry aspect of the marketing shows your continued attempts to promote your bad faith narrative. I'm simply not buying it, but you'll still try to sell it nonetheless.

 

 

???? Bad faith. By having a discussion on an Internet forum? Only bad faith here, is your bizarre attempt to squash discussion. 

 

 

1 hour ago, SeaShark said:

 

I did no such thing. I said pointing out well established facts as though they weren't well established is misleading. I never said an honest discussion of facts is "misleading". 

 

 

They aren’t well established at all. 
So ok, does 100% of the gratuity charge go to the bartending staff?

You said this is well established. So what’s the answer? 
 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, SeaShark said:

 

Shame is that there is no "fine print" here. It's all right there, something you've already admitted that is known and well established. Again..."under some cirucumstances" a phrasing that is misleading as it infers that this circumstance is one of the "some" referred to. Accusation without evidence. Textbook misleading.

It is misleading. It’s known to frequent NCL cruisers… it’s known to the people on this forum.  It is not so clear and known to every person who books a NCL cruise. 
 

I had a friend tell me recently, that if I didn’t book my cruise by the next day, I’d miss out on NCL’s free drinks promotion. 
 

So you’re saying —- since people already know that NCL is misleading, it is misleading to discuss how they are being misleading?!?

 

And I still don’t understand why you care whether people discuss that NCL’s marketing is misleading. Ok, you don’t personally feel it’s misleading. Good for you. What’s your problem with other people discussing they do feel it’s misleading?