New CA law and cruise planner

[whitshel]

Why do you suppose the new California Law doesn't apply to the cruise planner purchases.  Gratuities are not included in the price shown but you are charged for them and you cannot remove them.  Seems like this falls directly under that law, the price they show is not the price you pay???  And yes I do live in CA just in case they can geo locate people. 

 

 

[smokeybandit]

Because cruise planner items are all optional purchases, where as a cruise fare of course is mandatory.

 

[leaveitallbehind]

....and there are no additional charges, such as taxes or fees so the price shown is the total price.  I'm going to make the assumption that the price shown includes gratuities.

Edited July 15 by leaveitallbehind

[cruisegus]

@whitshel 2 day before the Law was enacted your CA legislature bowed down to the Restaurant Lobby and exempted restaurants.

 

The power of lobbies to defeat a good law.

 

Note the gratuities for specialty restaurants ARE mandatory and cannot be removed but CA changed the original law to exempt restaurants 

Edited July 15 by cruisegus

[whitshel]

10 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Because cruise planner items are all optional purchases, where as a cruise fare of course is mandatory.

 

Ummm, but isn't a cruise an optional purchase too?

Edited July 15 by whitshel

[whitshel]

8 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

....and there are no additional charges, such as taxes or fees so the price shown is the total price.  I'm going to make the assumption that the price shown includes gratuities.

No the 1st price is what you see when you click on it and add it to your cart.  The second is after its in the cart.  $100.42 more then what the advertised

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, whitshel said:

Ummm, but isn't a cruise an optional purchase too?

The point of the law is to show up front your total minimum cost and protect consumers from hidden mandatory costs. Your total minimum cost is cruise fare plus taxes/fees.

You do not need to purchase anything in the cruise planner to partake in a cruise.

[LobsterStalker]

31 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Because cruise planner items are all optional purchases, where as a cruise fare of course is mandatory.

 

how is a cruise fare anymore mandatory than anything else ? 

You choose whether or not to go on a cruise do you not ?

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, LobsterStalker said:

how is a cruise fare anymore mandatory than anything else ? 

You choose whether or not to go on a cruise do you not ?

A cruise fare is mandatory if you want to go on a cruise.

Internet, a shore excursion or a dining package are not.

[whitshel]

16 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The point of the law is to show up front your total minimum cost and protect consumers from hidden mandatory costs. Your total minimum cost is cruise fare plus taxes/fees.

You do not need to purchase anything in the cruise planner to partake in a cruise.

I completely agree.  But if you do partake in a cruise planner purchase it should follow the same rule as everything else.  The law isn't just for travel, its basically for everything.  And as I said before nothing is mandatory to buy, not the cruise, not a hammer, not a burger, but they all need to have all mandatory fees included in the price you see. 

 

SB 478 is a transparency law. A business can generally charge whatever amount it wants for a good or service, but the posted price must include the full amount that a consumer will pay for that good or service. The statute does not change what price a business can charge or what may be included in that cost. It simply requires that the price listed include all mandatory charges consumers will pay. 

SB 478 applies to the sale or lease of most goods and services that are for a consumer’s personal use including event tickets, hotels and other lodging, restaurants, and food delivery. SB 478 eliminates bait and switch tactics and demands transparency, so that consumers know what they are paying for and the total cost of a good or service upfront. 

[LobsterStalker]

1 minute ago, whitshel said:

I completely agree.  But if you do partake in a cruise planner purchase it should follow the same rule as everything else.  The law isn't just for travel, its basically for everything.  And as I said before nothing is mandatory to buy, not the cruise, not a hammer, not a burger, but they all need to have all mandatory fees included in the price you see. 

 

SB 478 is a transparency law. A business can generally charge whatever amount it wants for a good or service, but the posted price must include the full amount that a consumer will pay for that good or service. The statute does not change what price a business can charge or what may be included in that cost. It simply requires that the price listed include all mandatory charges consumers will pay. 

SB 478 applies to the sale or lease of most goods and services that are for a consumer’s personal use including event tickets, hotels and other lodging, restaurants, and food delivery. SB 478 eliminates bait and switch tactics and demands transparency, so that consumers know what they are paying for and the total cost of a good or service upfront. 

Hmmm , Either way I don't see anything written there about mandatory...

 

Cheers

[whitshel]

12 minutes ago, LobsterStalker said:

Hmmm , Either way I don't see anything written there about mandatory...

 

Cheers

What do you mean, I underlined it?

 

 It simply requires that the price listed include all mandatory charges consumers will pay. 

[ONECRUISER]

Irony is when the Specialty/Extra Cost Restaurants started on Royal with Voyager 25yrs ago the $5ea for Johnny R's and the $20ea for others was the Gratuity... 

[Jetdriver787]

They have been doing this in Europe for a long time. All intrinsic charges such as taxes (for retail customers,) port fees etc, must be included in the price offered (whether it is itemised or not.) The “nonsense” charges, such as “resort fees” and other miscellaneous padding, can still be charged, but even where itemized must be presented as the offered price, unless those items are optional.

[LobsterStalker]

21 hours ago, whitshel said:

What do you mean, I underlined it?

 

 It simply requires that the price listed include all mandatory charges consumers will pay. 

Sorry for the confusion , I guess I quoted wrong poster ... I was agreeing with you 

Point I was trying to make was a cruise was no more "mandatory "than cruise planner items.

 

Cheers

[pstone1]

22 hours ago, cruisegus said:

@whitshel 2 day before the Law was enacted your CA legislature bowed down to the Restaurant Lobby and exempted restaurants.

 

The power of lobbies to defeat a good law.

 

Note the gratuities for specialty restaurants ARE mandatory and cannot be removed but CA changed the original law to exempt restaurants 

Thank you for sharing the answer!

[taglovestocruise]

Restaurants were carved out and dropped from the law. It was the service fee that restaurants charge that is still somewhat hidden. There are several restaurants that we will no longer visit because of the ridicules 4 - 8 % fee that is charged but listed nowhere on the menu. Unfair to customers and unfair to the servers as many customers now deduct the fee from the tip. We have a sit down Mexican place in our town that still charges a 10% add on Covid fee. 

[cruisegus]

17 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

 Unfair to customers and unfair to the servers as many customers now deduct the fee from the tip.

Yup,  that's me, stupid add-on equal reduced tip.

And no future business from me

[ONECRUISER]

Whats the Fee for? Have huge Family, Mom had 6 Sisters, I have 10 Siblings where we have 41 Kids/Cousins, not counting my 4 Grand Daughters that have around 25 cousins so far. A lot of Restaurants have mandatory Tip for large parties. First time saw this we had just 12(10 Adults/2 babies) and I almost Tipped again after already having 15% added to our $340 Bill

[nelblu]

13 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

Restaurants were carved out and dropped from the law. It was the service fee that restaurants charge that is still somewhat hidden. There are several restaurants that we will no longer visit because of the ridicules 4 - 8 % fee that is charged but listed nowhere on the menu. Unfair to customers and unfair to the servers as many customers now deduct the fee from the tip. We have a sit down Mexican place in our town that still charges a 10% add on Covid fee. 

That is one item that annoys me the dreaded 3-5% CC charge fee.   Then to make things worse they calculate the grats with the local taxes included.  The grats % used to be 10, 15, 18%s, now in some restaurant the range is 18-22%.

Edited July 16 by nelblu

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, nelblu said:

That is one item that annoys me the dreaded 3-5% CC charge fee.   Then to make things worse they calculate the grats with the local taxes included.  The grats % used to be 10, 15, 18%s, now in some restaurant the range is 18-22%.

This is something that has always bugged me, the "normal" tipping percentage going up over time.  Since it's based on prices that are also going up, it seems like double-dipping to me.

[nelblu]

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

This is something that has always bugged me, the "normal" tipping percentage going up over time.  Since it's based on prices that are also going up, it seems like double-dipping to me.

Inflation is the killer.😟

[sandy toes]

I have a sweet granddaughter that works as a server 50-60 hrs each week all summer break while home from the University. Those earning pay the difference between scholarship and total costs of college for the next year. She is a great student and consistently makes the Dean's List. She depends on tips as her "pay" is $2.10/hr. She tells me stories that are wonderful, and those that are horrible, a 40 something guy treating his Dad and Grandfather on Father's Day spent less than $200, and then left her a tip of $60, while a group of 8 that spent over $500 (meal and drinks) and left her only a $5 bill. Servers can be treated like poo at home and on ship. We all need to remember and treat the good ones with a fair tip. 

[PhillyFan33579]

26 minutes ago, sandy toes said:

I have a sweet granddaughter that works as a server 50-60 hrs each week all summer break while home from the University. Those earning pay the difference between scholarship and total costs of college for the next year. She is a great student and consistently makes the Dean's List. She depends on tips as her "pay" is $2.10/hr. She tells me stories that are wonderful, and those that are horrible, a 40 something guy treating his Dad and Grandfather on Father's Day spent less than $200, and then left her a tip of $60, while a group of 8 that spent over $500 (meal and drinks) and left her only a $5 bill. Servers can be treated like poo at home and on ship. We all need to remember and treat the good ones with a fair tip. 

Unfortunately there are lots of people out there that don’t realize/care that a lot of workers depend on tips to survive. This website contains countless posts from people who say they always remove gratuities, therefore literally taking money out of the pockets of crew staff who depend on gratuities to survive and who work extremely hard on the ship to ensure the passengers have a great time. In my book if you can’t afford the tip you can’t afford the restaurant and if you can’t afford the gratuities you can’t afford the cruise. 

[time4u2go]

10 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Unfortunately there are lots of people out there that don’t realize/care that a lot of workers depend on tips to survive. This website contains countless posts from people who say they always remove gratuities, therefore literally taking money out of the pockets of crew staff who depend on gratuities to survive and who work extremely hard on the ship to ensure the passengers have a great time. In my book if you can’t afford the tip you can’t afford the restaurant and if you can’t afford the gratuities you can’t afford the cruise. 

I'm not saying that it's OK to remove gratuities, but I suspect that most of the people that remove them do so for reasons other than their ability to afford them.