Passport Clarification Needed..

[navybankerteacher]

Clearly by your snippy undertones it is sufficiently clear to my imagination that someone needs a vacation...

I thought this poster was asking for opinions. Oops, my bad.

Have a nice day!

 

Thank you, but I have plenty of vacation time. Your fatuous certainty that no one could ever be left behind by a ship was an exercise which needed to punctured. It's unfortunate that you feel you may express any opinion (regardless of how inane) but others may not opine on what you say.

[topaz123]

Dont be an alarmist...we have a whole industry ( insurance ) profiting on what "might" happen. I suppose you can buy ingrown toenail insurance, rainy day insurance, on and on. Of all the once in a million examples of someone who got left behind or had a health problem ...there are overwhelmingly examples of people that do not have a problem. SAVE YOUR MONEY...relax.....and remember to bring your Driver's Lic. and B. Certificate...you will be just fine.

[navybankerteacher]

Dont be an alarmist...we have a whole industry ( insurance ) profiting on what "might" happen. I suppose you can buy ingrown toenail insurance, rainy day insurance, on and on. Of all the once in a million examples of someone who got left behind or had a health problem ...there are overwhelmingly examples of people that do not have a problem. SAVE YOUR MONEY...relax.....and remember to bring your Driver's Lic. and B. Certificate...you will be just fine.

 

Good to hear another "guarantee" that no one ever gets left behind. On about 20 cruises, with an average of less than 2,500 passengers per, I have twice seen people left behind. That works out to twice in fifty thousand -- a lot higher ratio than the "...once in a million..." you cite.

 

Sure, the odds are against anyone being left behind, but only an idiot refuses to recognize the risk, however slight, of it happening. Of course, a reasonably organized person can make a reasonably safe decision to cruise without a passport and simply make sure he knows what he is doing. I do not argue with that thought process: what I find moronic is the tendency of people to make unfounded statements of a certainty which does not exist/

[vjmatty]

[crazzyd77]

lol:p

[KCinBAMA]

I have always left my passport locked safely in my cabin when taking shore excursions. Now, after reading a few incidents of folks missing a departure time in port and their subsequent efforts of rejoining the ship or flying home, I am rethinking this tactic.

 

Here is my thought process. I am comparing the risk of losing a passport vs not having one in a foreign country. If I lose a passport in port, I will not be able to reenter the US without a hassle (the NCL Dawn sailing from Tampa recently changed from a closed loop to an open loop). However, I will be physically located in the US while going through whatever the necessary steps are required. If I miss a ship departure from port without a passport, I will be in a foreign country attempting the same necessary steps plus possible travel and hotel arrangements.

 

While missing a ship departure is rare, I believe the consequences outweigh a possible lost passport issue. I now think I should keep my passport with me while in all ports.

 

Any thoughts? Anything else I should consider?

[njhorseman]

I have always left my passport locked safely in my cabin when taking shore excursions. Now, after reading a few incidents of folks missing a departure time in port and their subsequent efforts of rejoining the ship or flying home, I am rethinking this tactic.

 

Here is my thought process. I am comparing the risk of losing a passport vs not having one in a foreign country. If I lose a passport in port, I will not be able to reenter the US without a hassle (the NCL Dawn sailing from Tampa recently changed from a closed loop to an open loop). However, I will be physically located in the US while going through whatever the necessary steps are required. If I miss a ship departure from port without a passport, I will be in a foreign country attempting the same necessary steps plus possible travel and hotel arrangements.

 

While missing a ship departure is rare, I believe the consequences outweigh a possible lost passport issue. I now think I should keep my passport with me while in all ports.

 

Any thoughts? Anything else I should consider?

 

There's no absolute right or wrong answer to this question, but I believe most experienced travelers leave their passports in their room safe because they believe the risk of losing their passport or having it stolen or damaged if carried ashore outweighs the likelihood they will miss their ships departure. Further, many if not most cruise lines will now attempt to retrieve the passports of passengers who will miss the ship by opening the cabin safe. The retrieved passport is turned over to the ship's port agent, who is responsible for assisting you in making arrangements for your onward travel.

 

By the way, the statement that the Norwegian Dawn cruises that picked up passengers in Cozumel were turned into "open loop" cruises isn't true. For passengers that boarded and disembarked in Tampa it was still a closed loop cruise and no documentation beyond that normally required was mandated. If you cruised with a birth certificate and drivers license rather than a passport that was still OK. The only thing that happened is CBP has a procedure requiring clearance processing to be carried out as if the cruise was not closed loop. (That's much different from saying it wasn't closed loop.) That means individual passengers' documents were examined closely by CBP rather than simply clearing the ship for disembarkation from the information on the passenger manifest. What happened on the Dawn isn't even remotely relevant to answering the question of whether you should carry your passport ashore. If anything it would provide support for the practice of not taking it ashore because if it was lost or stolen you might have even a harder time disembarking than you normally would.

[TPKeller]

I have always left my passport locked safely in my cabin when taking shore excursions. Now, after reading a few incidents of folks missing a departure time in port and their subsequent efforts of rejoining the ship or flying home, I am rethinking this tactic.

 

Here is my thought process. I am comparing the risk of losing a passport vs not having one in a foreign country. If I lose a passport in port, I will not be able to reenter the US without a hassle (the NCL Dawn sailing from Tampa recently changed from a closed loop to an open loop). However, I will be physically located in the US while going through whatever the necessary steps are required. If I miss a ship departure from port without a passport, I will be in a foreign country attempting the same necessary steps plus possible travel and hotel arrangements.

 

While missing a ship departure is rare, I believe the consequences outweigh a possible lost passport issue. I now think I should keep my passport with me while in all ports.

 

Any thoughts? Anything else I should consider?

One definition of risk that is often used by businesses who are analyzing and preparing for contingencies is this:

 

Risk = probability * consequence

 

In other words, you factor together the probability of an event happening with the expected consequence of how it would affect you. For example, if there's a 0.1% chance of your building catching on fire in the middle of the night, but a 99% chance that such a fire would be a disaster, you will probably spring for the fire alarm and sprinkler system, even though the probability is very small.

 

This is just such an equation. If you leave the passport on the ship, then your equation becomes:

 

Risk = [probability of missing the ship] * [hassle of catching up or returning home without passport]

 

And if you take with, then:

 

Risk = [probability of losing passport] * [hassle of reentry to US at end of cruise]

 

I tend to take my passport when at non-US ports, because in my personal assessment, I believe it's more likely to miss the ship due to things beyond my control, such as traffic, etc. And I carry my items fairly securely and I tend to stay aware of my surroundings, so short of outright robbery, I have decided my probability to lose it is lower.

 

Your process is correct, this is the analysis that each person must do for themselves as they make this decision.

 

There's no absolute right or wrong answer to this question, but I believe most experienced travelers leave their passports in their room safe because they believe the risk of losing their passport or having it stolen or damaged if carried ashore outweighs the likelihood they will miss their ships departure. Further, many if not most cruise lines will now attempt to retrieve the passports of passengers who will miss the ship by opening the cabin safe. The retrieved passport is turned over to the ship's port agent, who is responsible for assisting you in making arrangements for your onward travel.

I can't cite the thread, but I do recall reading a post a few months back which described someone who missed the ship and were not provided with their passport. At the time, the comment on the thread was made that apparently this commonly held presumption must not be true. It would be beneficial if we could find more and current data points on this matter, as this does provide a very important factor to the decision process.

 

Theron

[njhorseman]

One definition of risk that is often used by businesses who are analyzing and preparing for contingencies is this:

 

Risk = probability * consequence

 

In other words, you factor together the probability of an event happening with the expected consequence of how it would affect you. For example, if there's a 0.1% chance of your building catching on fire in the middle of the night, but a 99% chance that such a fire would be a disaster, you will probably spring for the fire alarm and sprinkler system, even though the probability is very small.

 

This is just such an equation. If you leave the passport on the ship, then your equation becomes:

 

Risk = [probability of missing the ship] * [hassle of catching up or returning home without passport]

 

And if you take with, then:

 

Risk = [probability of losing passport] * [hassle of reentry to US at end of cruise]

 

I tend to take my passport when at non-US ports, because in my personal assessment, I believe it's more likely to miss the ship due to things beyond my control, such as traffic, etc. And I carry my items fairly securely and I tend to stay aware of my surroundings, so short of outright robbery, I have decided my probability to lose it is lower.

 

Your process is correct, this is the analysis that each person must do for themselves as they make this decision.

 

I can't cite the thread, but I do recall reading a post a few months back which described someone who missed the ship and were not provided with their passport. At the time, the comment on the thread was made that apparently this commonly held presumption must not be true. It would be beneficial if we could find more and current data points on this matter, as this does provide a very important factor to the decision process.

Theron

 

A few days ago, poster "BruceMuzz" said the following..just the opposite of what you're saying:

 

If you do have a passport and leave it on the ship, you need not worry.

Most countries today require the ship to offload the passports of any passengers who do not make it back to the ship for any reason. As soon as we know or suspect that you are not returning, Security visits your cabin to search for your passports. The passports are passed over to the agent, who is then legally responsible for you until local authorities issue a temporary visa for your stay there. If we do not find passports in your cabin, you are on your own. As soon as the ship departs, you are illegally in that particular country and must sort out things with the local officials.

 

Here's a link to his post: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=41103977&postcount=12

Edited January 6, 2014 by njhorseman

[TPKeller]

A few days ago, poster "BruceMuzz" said the following..just the opposite of what you're saying:

 

If you do have a passport and leave it on the ship, you need not worry.

Most countries today require the ship to offload the passports of any passengers who do not make it back to the ship for any reason. As soon as we know or suspect that you are not returning, Security visits your cabin to search for your passports. The passports are passed over to the agent, who is then legally responsible for you until local authorities issue a temporary visa for your stay there. If we do not find passports in your cabin, you are on your own. As soon as the ship departs, you are illegally in that particular country and must sort out things with the local officials.

 

Here's a link to his post: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=41103977&postcount=12

Very interesting, but one man's story. And no cites to any official law or policy backing up "most countries today require..."

 

I guess I'll have to see if I can dig up that other report.

 

Theron

[KCinBAMA]

njorseman and Theron,

Thanks for the answers and comments. They are very helpful.

[njhorseman]

Very interesting, but one man's story. And no cites to any official law or policy backing up "most countries today require..."

 

I guess I'll have to see if I can dig up that other report.

 

Theron

 

What you're citing is "one man's story" . The person I'm citing claims to be a long-time cruise ship officer, and based on his many postings here I'm inclined to believe him.

 

You do realize that since no one is saying all cruise lines will attempt to retrieve a passenger's passport in all circumstances, but rather that many or most cruises will do so and many countries require it, the story you cite in no way contradicts what BruceMuzz says.

 

I don't know how you can reasonably expect to find a published source for such documentation. It's hard enough (make that impossible) to find published sources for all US regulations and procedures, much less those of other nations.

[TPKeller]

What you're citing is "one man's story" . The person I'm citing claims to be a long-time cruise ship officer, and based on his many postings here I'm inclined to believe him.

 

You do realize that since no one is saying all cruise lines will attempt to retrieve a passenger's passport in all circumstances, but rather that many or most cruises will do so and many countries require it, the story you cite in no way contradicts what BruceMuzz says.

 

I don't know how you can reasonably expect to find a published source for such documentation. It's hard enough (make that impossible) to find published sources for all US regulations and procedures, much less those of other nations.

Sure, they are both one story. The one I read right here on Cruise Critic was certainly just as sincere, and since it was personally experienced by the poster, perhaps more so than an observer of happenings. I have no reason to doubt the truthfulness of either account.

 

My point is that while it certainly is a nice thing for the cruise line to try to find a passport, I have no reason to believe it is a law or even a policy that a genuine effort must be made to do so in every case. I would not be at all surprised if such efforts are made at the convenience of the cruise line, depending entirely on the availability of someone to send at that critical moment. Remember, there is only a very small amount of time we're talking about here. They have reached the point where the time to leave is imminent, and the decision has to be made that they are likely not going to appear. Each minute the ship stays after their scheduled time to leave means more gas burned to get to the next port on time. So after they decide they aren't coming, THEN they send someone to the cabin to look through who knows how many piles of stuff before they find a passport, which very well may be in the pocket of the person/s who is/are missing! I'm guessing they open the safe, if it's not in there, they take a quick look around and call it "done."

 

The bottom line is that there is truthfully no way to know for sure what will happen in each case of a missed ship. All one can do is read of others' past experiences, and make the decision they believe they can live with in case things don't go as planned.

 

Theron

[Wanna_Cruize]

Not to jump in the middle of this, but there is another option here. As part of our last renewal, DH & I got the passport card also. So, now when we cruise, if we are at a port, the passport card stays in the safe, and the passport itself comes with us. We can return to the US from a cruise with just the passport card, but need the actual passport to fly back to the US.

[TPKeller]

Not to jump in the middle of this, but there is another option here. As part of our last renewal, DH & I got the passport card also. So, now when we cruise, if we are at a port, the passport card stays in the safe, and the passport itself comes with us. We can return to the US from a cruise with just the passport card, but need the actual passport to fly back to the US.

That's probably the best reason I've ever heard to get both the card and the book!

 

Theron

[KCinBAMA]

Not to jump in the middle of this, but there is another option here. As part of our last renewal, DH & I got the passport card also. So, now when we cruise, if we are at a port, the passport card stays in the safe, and the passport itself comes with us. We can return to the US from a cruise with just the passport card, but need the actual passport to fly back to the US.

 

Excellent idea! :)

[sparks1093]

Not to jump in the middle of this, but there is another option here. As part of our last renewal, DH & I got the passport card also. So, now when we cruise, if we are at a port, the passport card stays in the safe, and the passport itself comes with us. We can return to the US from a cruise with just the passport card, but need the actual passport to fly back to the US.

 

If one is on a closed loop cruise having your birth certificate in your safe would achieve the same end.

[14Terry]

Not to jump in the middle of this, but there is another option here. As part of our last renewal, DH & I got the passport card also. So, now when we cruise, if we are at a port, the passport card stays in the safe, and the passport itself comes with us. We can return to the US from a cruise with just the passport card, but need the actual passport to fly back to the US.

 

 

This is exactly what DW & I do.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kirsty_r]

This is exactly what DW & I do.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

also to add, some cruise ports (definitely UK ones) will check passports for all passengers!

[Jobeth66]

If one is on a closed loop cruise having your birth certificate in your safe would achieve the same end.

 

We do the same (passports with us, passport cards in the safe). Hubby was born on a US Air Force base abroad that no longer exists and we lost his copy of his birth certificate once during a military move. It took 6 months, a lot of paperwork, and intervention of our Congressman to get a replacement copy. That is now securely locked in a waterproof bag inside a safe-deposit box along with a few copies of his DD214. It does not leave our possession. Much easier to replace a lost or stolen passport.

[kitty9]

And, many cruise lines take, and keep, passports for the duration of the cruise. So, if the cruise line feels its not necessary to have your passport off the ship, unless its required by a country, who's to argue? From experience with our relatives from Eastern Europe, Celebrity took their passports, and I've even had my passport taken for Caribbean and Alaska cruises.

[TPKeller]

And, many cruise lines take, and keep, passports for the duration of the cruise. So, if the cruise line feels its not necessary to have your passport off the ship, unless its required by a country, who's to argue? From experience with our relatives from Eastern Europe, Celebrity took their passports, and I've even had my passport taken for Caribbean and Alaska cruises.

Just curious, are you a US citizen? I have never heard even one report of any US based cruise taking the passport of a US citizen. It is common for them to take and hold passports of non-US citizens, but never heard of it for US citizens.

 

Theron

[Markanddonna]

I am an American citizen and the only time our passports were taken was on a transatlantic cruise. Everyone's were taken and given back when we were a day out from the Bahamas. Never had it taken in Alaska or the Caribbean.

[TPKeller]

I am an American citizen and the only time our passports were taken was on a transatlantic cruise. Everyone's were taken and given back when we were a day out from the Bahamas. Never had it taken in Alaska or the Caribbean.

Interesting. Never been on a transatlantic. But this is the first I've heard of it happening ship-wide.

 

Theron

[njhorseman]

Interesting. Never been on a transatlantic. But this is the first I've heard of it happening ship-wide.

 

Theron

 

We've had ours held on a few cruises in Europe and South America. On some itineraries local officials insist on having all passengers' passports available for their inspection upon the ship's arrival in port, which is often at 4 or 5 am, a time when the typical passenger isn't going to be too thrilled about standing in line to have their documents inspected. We even have a couple of stamps in our passports from ports where we were not in possession of our passports when they were stamped. It was done during the early morning passport check.