Best Airline for Overseas? Worst? And Why?

I've just begun perusing this cruise air thread since next year's cruise is out of Barcelona.

What's the best airline for flying overseas and what's the worst? I know it's often a crapshoot in choosing.

For us, the best so far has been KLM:

Great customer service

Roomier seats

Free Heinekens

Comfortable flight/choice of seating

Easy arrangements

Worst for us was United:

Was unable to pre-arrange seats, ended up in the middle of a 777

Smaller seats, less room

Rude flight attendants

Best depends on how you measure what you're getting. For some people best = cheapest, for others it's the experience and I'm certainly more in the latter.

I guess a few things I take away from your observations:

-Actually United's seats are wider than KLM's and they have the same seat pitch.

-"Easy arrangements" :confused:

-I always find it bizarre when flight attendants are all tarnished with the same brush...yes, there are certain "cultures" within airlines that are adhered to (for example Virgin Atlantic are trained to be more laid back and friendly) but to say all flight attendants for a given airline are rude sounds a bit nonsensical. I've flown United many dozens of times, international and domestic in all cabins, albeit not for a few years now but I can't say they conformed to any particular stereotype. Some were great, a few weren't but that's about normal for any airline, IME.

Best depends on how you measure what you're getting. For some people best = cheapest, for others it's the experience and I'm certainly more in the latter.

 

I guess a few things I take away from your observations:

-Actually United's seats are wider than KLM's and they have the same seat pitch.

-"Easy arrangements" :confused:

-I always find it bizarre when flight attendants are all tarnished with the same brush...yes, there are certain "cultures" within airlines that are adhered to (for example Virgin Atlantic are trained to be more laid back and friendly) but to say all flight attendants for a given airline are rude sounds a bit nonsensical. I've flown United many dozens of times, international and domestic in all cabins, albeit not for a few years now but I can't say they conformed to any particular stereotype. Some were great, a few weren't but that's about normal for any airline, IME.

United seats weren't "wider" at all. At least in our case. Wider doesn't really matter, we're both smaller build. MUCH less leg room on United than KLM. Then again, we're talking about a specific aircraft - the Boeing 777. Flown them typically. Maybe you're thinking 757. Haven't flown those in a while.

Easy arrangements - I could've explained more...it was easier to get someone on the phone with KLM than any other airline we've flown with. Horrific with United.

NOT tarnishing FA's with the same brush. Depends on the flights, times, etc. I just didn't enjoy the flights on United at all.

United seats weren't "wider" at all. At least in our case. Wider doesn't really matter, we're both smaller build. MUCH less leg room on United than KLM. Then again, we're talking about a specific aircraft - the Boeing 777.

KLM's 777s all have 31" pitch and 17.5" width

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-200.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-200ER.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-300ER.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-300ER_A.php

United's 777s all have 31" pitch and either 18" or 18.3" width

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/United_Airlines/United_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_3_New.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/United_Airlines/United_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_2_New.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/United_Airlines/United_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_6.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/United_Airlines/United_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_8.php

I can only assume you were upgraded to or given seats in Economy Comfort on KLM and just weren't aware.

If one books on UA for a UA operated flight, then they can choose their seats at the time of booking.

If they booked on UA for a non UA operated flight, ie Star Alliance Partner, then they can't choose their own seats at time of booking.

If they flew the Star Alliance Partner's flight, then it was that partner's flight attendants you dealt with, not United's.

I hate flying through LHR! Therefore any airline forcing me to connect their is a no-go!

Egyptian Airlines does not served alcohol! BAD for a long flight!

Going into Barcelona, I found AA through Madrid or Iberian (one world AA partner) to both be a good alternative. Iberian goes direct (or did last year) from some US cities.

I've just begun perusing this cruise air thread since next year's cruise is out of Barcelona.

 

What's the best airline for flying overseas and what's the worst? I know it's often a crapshoot in choosing.

 

For us, the best so far has been KLM....

If you are happy with KLM, then that is the best airline for you. Perception trumps reality.

We all have our own preferred airlines, so listing good and bad here might make for some entertaining reading, but will ultimately not be helpful to you. How would you react if someone posted they hated KLM? Would you continue to fly KLM?

I share the OP's dislike of UA. As far as I am concerned there is always a better choice. Not crazy about Lufthansa either. We have had good luck with Delta. I like the fact that for a reasonable fee you can book the "economy comfort " seats for the transatlantic leg which really helps imho. One thing that factors heavily in our decisions for long haul flights are the airport we connect through. In Europe we try hard to avoid Frankfort and Paris. Amsterdam or Dublin are so easy for us. We hate flying back into the US through Dulles and will avoid those flights like the plague.

We love SAS and like Aer Lingus but doubt if either of those would be good for Barcelona. If you like KLM (we like it as well) go with them. You would almost certainly connect through Amsterdam

I would suggest checking something like kayak to see what your decent options are from wherever you fly out of. Then you can always Google reviews of those airlines. There are lots of sites that have them

My absolute least favorite: AA. Did TATL - home-DFW-LHR/LAX-home. 777 for the long legs of the trip. Big IFE boxes under the seat on the way out left no room for feet or a small bag, making it especially cramped. The FAs only make one pass with drink, so if you got thirsty, you had to disturb your aisle mates. On the way home, I scored the aisle bulkhead that had no wall between business and economy. FAs kept hitting my legs because they wouldn't make the little turn from the wide Business aisle to the smaller Econ aisle. Couldn't sleep at all with that. I went to the back once to get some water and one FA chastised me for not getting the water when they went through a few hours before!! (they were engaged in personal conversation when I asked).

My favorite economy TATL is still Delta. FAs consistently walk through the cabin with water at all hours of the flight. Actually have foot room under the seat in front of me. Food is unremarkable, but that is a good thing in Economy ;) I've flown DL from home to MUC, FRA, FCO, MXP, BCN, CDG and also at the end of service to/from CAI and AMM. Nothing to complain about, just solid service.

My current favorite business TATL is Alitalia. Yes, Alitalia. Great private seat with comfy lay-flat seat. Nice Frette duvet and pillow. A really nice Ferragamo amenity bag. The food and wine service was excellent. Food served seat-side from carts. I got to pick what I wanted for each course (if there were 2 choices, I could pick 2 small portions of each or 1 normal portion). The pasta (I always get the plain red sauced pasta) is always done just right - not rubbery or undercooked. I have been surprised by the fish dishes I've had - again done just right. I fell in love with anchovy on Alitalia! The wine was good and the FAs were happy to pour what you wanted, when you wanted. The FAs also were quick to respond to requests for additional water overnight.

BA First is my favorite, Air France Premium Economy sucked. I have been on AA (US) in Envoy/Business a few times and have always been at least happy with it. My next flight to Europe will likely be on IcelandAir in Business.

 

For us, the best so far has been KLM:

 

Great customer service

Roomier seats

Free Heinekens

Comfortable flight/choice of seating

Easy arrangements

 

Worst for us was United:

 

Was unable to pre-arrange seats, ended up in the middle of a 777

Smaller seats, less room

Rude flight attendants

So much depends on the ticket you purchase and/or where you purchase it. Ex. Were you unable to choose your UA seat because it was on a partner airline? booked through a 3rd party? was a super discounted fare that restricts seat selection? Same with seat size... did you perhaps luck out with a comfort+/economy+ type seat on KLM? Or maybe a bulkhead or exit row seat compared to maybe a middle seat in a regular economy row on UA? B

You say KLM had "easy arrangements." What does that mean?

Sounds like maybe this was an apples and oranges comparison. Either way, deciding what airline is "best" or "worst" is highly subjective and largely depends on what is important to each individual person. Seat selection and seat location seems to be a big thing for you (as it is for many) so the obvious suggestion is in the future, buy a ticket fare class that allows you to select seats in advance, regardless of the airline you're flying.

As a rule of thumb [and I totally agree that there are lots of variables that can make some flights better than others], I would suggest the following priority list, in purely generic terms:

1. Far East Airlines

2. Mid East Airlines [but beware of cramming in Economy on Emirates]

3. Northern European/Antipodean Airlines

4. Southern European Airlines

5. North American Airlines

Obviously purely subjective, and I haven't flown on any Southern American or African airlines, so cannot comment on these.

As a rule of thumb [and I totally agree that there are lots of variables that can make some flights better than others], I would suggest the following priority list, in purely generic terms:

 

1. Far East Airlines

 

2. Mid East Airlines [but beware of cramming in Economy on Emirates]

 

3. Northern European/Antipodean Airlines

 

4. Southern European Airlines

 

5. North American Airlines

 

 

 

Obviously purely subjective, and I haven't flown on any Southern American or African airlines, so cannot comment on these.

Considering a measurable number of Africa based airlines can't even pass FDOT/FAA/NTSB/DHS/TSA/[insert initials of another Federal Administration or Agency of your choice] requirements to operate in US & Canadian airspace, That's probably a good thing. ;)

Considering a measurable number of Africa based airlines can't even pass FDOT/FAA/NTSB/DHS/TSA/[insert initials of another Federal Administration or Agency of your choice] requirements to operate in US & Canadian airspace, That's probably a good thing. ;)

One of the best flights I've ever had was this summer, JNB-GRU, in business on SAA.

A lot of it depends on how long the flight is and the timing. For example an aisle seat in economy BOS to DUB on a daytime or late night arrival flight would be perfectly fine for me on pretty much any carrier. But an overnight flight that crosses more than three time zones? Ugh. Lay flat seat or I'm staying home.

KLM's 777s all have 31" pitch and 17.5" width

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-200.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-200ER.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-300ER.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-300ER_A.php

 

United's 777s all have 31" pitch and either 18" or 18.3" width

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/United_Airlines/United_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_3_New.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/United_Airlines/United_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_2_New.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/United_Airlines/United_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_6.php

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/United_Airlines/United_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_8.php

 

I can only assume you were upgraded to or given seats in Economy Comfort on KLM and just weren't aware.

Yeah, that's quite possible. And, these planes are continuously swapped out seats of varying pitch/width too so they can convert arranged cargo shipments as well. Even the space between rows change as well. I've seen center aisles with only four seats on the 777's with three seats on both sides instead of the usual two, and as we know, most have five in the center and two on the sides.

I share the OP's dislike of UA. As far as I am concerned there is always a better choice. Not crazy about Lufthansa either. We have had good luck with Delta. I like the fact that for a reasonable fee you can book the "economy comfort " seats for the transatlantic leg which really helps imho. One thing that factors heavily in our decisions for long haul flights are the airport we connect through. In Europe we try hard to avoid Frankfort and Paris. Amsterdam or Dublin are so easy for us. We hate flying back into the US through Dulles and will avoid those flights like the plague.

We love SAS and like Aer Lingus but doubt if either of those would be good for Barcelona. If you like KLM (we like it as well) go with them. You would almost certainly connect through Amsterdam

I would suggest checking something like kayak to see what your decent options are from wherever you fly out of. Then you can always Google reviews of those airlines. There are lots of sites that have them

Absolutely....now, on AIRPORTS, my worst is Charlotte/Douglas. Constantly have had delays there. One time, we were STUCK just sitting outside of the gate for 45 minutes. This caused us to miss our connecting flight to San Diego and we missed seeing our son getting his dolphins pinned on (he's in the navy). That, after a few other flight delays in and out of that hell hole, made me decide that, if I have to pay more money for a flight out of Saskatchewan Canada instead of Charlotte, I'm doing it!

Considering a measurable number of Africa based airlines can't even pass FDOT/FAA/NTSB/DHS/TSA/[insert initials of another Federal Administration or Agency of your choice] requirements to operate in US & Canadian airspace, That's probably a good thing. ;)

I had two flights on Kenya Airways, LHR-NBO and back. Quite nice flights in the back of the bus, even with the flight totally full. I remember a nice dinner, with a lamb stew over rice. FAs brought water down the aisles throughout the flights. These were flights that connected with my dreaded AA flights. No comparison - Kenya was MUCH nicer!!! AND I got SkyMiles on those 2 flights...

We flew SAA from Dulles to South Africa last year on the recommendation of a FA I know. The economy section was very full but seats were roomy enough not to be uncomfortable. I ordered Indian vegetarian food for the trip which was pretty good while husband had regular fare which was good enough. It is a 16 hr flight but makes a stop in Dakar or another city on the west coast of Africa so that it is possible to sleep for a few hours and then stand up and walk around during the hr stopover. I would use this airline again and recommend it to others. Of course, first or business would be more comfortable as mentioned above but SAA economy was way more comfortable than some North American flights to Europe. Do not dismiss South American airlines either without looking for recommendations first (many years since we flew one but many good enough flights when we did). I do like to support our US airlines but there are too many airlines around the world that are as good or better when traveling abroad. Our airlines seem to pay more attention to the bottom line than to our comfort on longer flights.

Hard question. All coach classes suck. It doesn't matter which airline are you on pitch is similar, seats are usually made by the same companies and standard, food is bad in all of them.

What makes it different for me is that I usually travel alone and go on a window seat. In order to have less people between me and the aisle I avoid the side three seats rows. B777, A350, B787, B747 or A380

I love the B767 and A330.

Just wait for 2019 & Jetblue A321LR's...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-jetblue-airways-airplane-idUSKBN0OW04F20150616

Just wait for 2019 & Jetblue A321LR's...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-jetblue-airways-airplane-idUSKBN0OW04F20150616

OP wants to fly to Europe, not South America.

I would probably say that the best airline experience across the pond would probably be the Etihad Residence. Separate living room, bedroom and private bathroom. No worries about seat pitch or width, no rude and surly seatmates.

Just look for their A380 service.

I would probably say that the best airline experience across the pond would probably be the Etihad Residence. Separate living room, bedroom and private bathroom. No worries about seat pitch or width, no rude and surly seatmates.

 

Just look for their A380 service.

Of course a few round trips that way would pay for a house in most areas. :D

My best flights (great service, on time, bags made it) -- Pan Am (I do go way back), TWA, Piedmont, Texas International, Continental, United, Singapore, Thai, Delta, NW, BA, Virgin, KLM, LH, Swiss Air, Air France, SAS.. among others.

My worst flights (poor service, late, bags misconnected) -- Pan Am, TWA, Piedmont, Texas International, Continental, United, Singapore, Thai, Delta, NW, BA, Virgin, KLM, Swiss Air, Air France, SAS... among others

Then there are those that I never had a good flight -- Aeroflot, Air China, China Southern, China Northern, China Eastern, Vietnam Airlines -- where service is not part of the party line :)

My best flights (great service, on time, bags made it) -- Pan Am (I do go way back), TWA, Piedmont, Texas International, Continental, United, Singapore, Thai, Delta, NW, BA, Virgin, KLM, LH, Swiss Air, Air France, SAS.. among others.

 

My worst flights (poor service, late, bags misconnected) -- Pan Am, TWA, Piedmont, Texas International, Continental, United, Singapore, Thai, Delta, NW, BA, Virgin, KLM, Swiss Air, Air France, SAS... among others

 

Then there are those that I never had a good flight -- Aeroflot, Air China, China Southern, China Northern, China Eastern, Vietnam Airlines -- where service is not part of the party line :)

Arghh..thanks Paul, I have two of your dirty half dozen booked for our next trip, with three flights on Vietnam and one on Air China. But, we have survived flights on two of the others ( and I think we shouldn't have eaten the inflight meals on one of them...can't remember if it was the China Southern or Eastern flight...it was a long time ago.). Uhmm..if Vietnam or Air China serve anything, I think we'll pass.:)