Princess's new customer unfriendly booking policy.

I have just discovered that, as a customer who books well ahead, usually before travel details are available,(as many do who want to get the cabin they prefer,) if I don't like the travel arrangements Princess Cruises subsequently propose (Airline, flight times, cost etc). all important factors in the holidays, and I don't like the alternatives they offer, or even if they don't offer alternatives, guess what happens...

Princess refuse to offer refund of deposit!!

If you don't like what we are offering... tough.

What country are you booking from?

Refundability of cruise deposits varies according to where you live/book. In the UK deposits are nonrefundable as a rule while in the US most deposits are completely refundable essentially until final payment.

Some lines have a fare with a nonrefundable deposit and a higher fare with a refundable deposit.

OP list Northern Ireland as home. I think they have had non-refundable deposits for years in the UK.

Can you make your own flight arrangements?

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Wait, what? You want to cancel the cruise because you don't like their flight options?

First, don't blame the cruise line over non refundable deposits. That's a UK thing, and you'll find no difference with other lines.

Second, if you don't like their flight options, then book your own flights.

OP list Northern Ireland as home. I think they have had non-refundable deposits for years in the UK.

We've always had non-refundable deposits in the UK, for ALL holidays, not just cruises.

Yeah its not just Princess...all UK (and generally non-US cruisers) passengers book knowing their deposit is non-refundable. Actually, as the above poster rightly said I have never booked a holiday/resort/cruise etc where the deposit was refundable.

I think Oz has some refundable deposits sometimes.

Sometimes, booking ahead isn't the best route.

I wonder if OP will return and thank everyone for clearing up the issue.

I wonder if OP will return and thank everyone for clearing up the issue.

Nope! The OP's only other post was starting a thread in April 2012 (the same month joined), and was complaining on that one as well:

"Is anyone as fed up as I am with some cruise line's practice of selling off unsold cabins at up to half price when the departure date nears?"

The OP couldn't be bother to reply to comments then and I will bet the OP won't with this new complaint either.

Wait, what? You want to cancel the cruise because you don't like their flight options?

 

First, don't blame the cruise line over non refundable deposits. That's a UK thing, and you'll find no difference with other lines.

 

Second, if you don't like their flight options, then book your own flights.

What I've heard of cruiseair is that they advise of their air arrangements at a late stage?

If so, that'd be too late for the OP to book their own with best price & arrangements.

And by that time they're committed to the cruise.

On several occasions fellow-cruisers have told me of convoluted flight-plans - two that immediately spring to mind have been UK to NOLA via a change at Atlanta, and another London to Istanbul via a change and loooong layover in Amsterdam turning a 3 hour journey into an all-day journey - all because cruise lines use their pet airlines even though other air carriers providing direct flights.

Enough to prevent me from even considering cruise-air, other than the excellent packages of P&O and Marella (and until a few years back, Princess) which include chartered aircraft.

JB :)

It's been a long long time since I booked cruise air in conjunction with a Princess cruise but I'm pretty sure I was able to select dates, flights, etc.

It's been a long long time since I booked cruise air in conjunction with a Princess cruise but I'm pretty sure I was able to select dates, flights, etc.

And you still are (we used EZAir last fall and will use it again in June) at least in the US. We have always picked our airline, class of travel, flights (especially since I will do almost anything to avoid connections) and dates. Since you don't pay for your ticket until 45 days out (well past final payment for your cruise) you have the ability to make changes right up until then. If the price goes down, you can re-fare. If it goes up, you are protected at your last fare. Your itinerary is ticketed when you make payment. For example on this summer's flight I paid in full for airfare when I made final payment on the cruise fare and my reservation showed 'ticketed' on the airline's website within minutes. We were then able to call the airline and upgrade our son and daughter-in-law's seats for free since we have status with the airline. We had upgraded our own seats after making the EZAir reservations by calling the airline directly. They saw that we had status and upgraded us right then.

What country are you booking from?

 

Refundability of cruise deposits varies according to where you live/book. In the UK deposits are nonrefundable as a rule while in the US most deposits are completely refundable essentially until final payment.

 

Some lines have a fare with a nonrefundable deposit and a higher fare with a refundable deposit.

Hi underwater,

booking, of course, in the u.k.

the huge disparity in the deals ,prices ,and booking practices between us an the u.s. is of course, completely unfair, and is another bugbear of mine. Cruise companies don't seem to realise customers have access to the internet!

But the point of my original post is that I believe that what Princess cruises is doing is illegal. If they can not subsequent to booking provide suitable travel arrangements, then the booking is null and void, and they have no right to retain deposit which was paid for a holiday PLUS travel .

Hi underwater,

booking, of course, in the u.k.

the huge disparity in the deals ,prices ,and booking practices between us an the u.s. is of course, completely unfair, and is another bugbear of mine. Cruise companies don't seem to realise customers have access to the internet!

But the point of my original post is that I believe that what Princess cruises is doing is illegal. If they can not subsequent to booking provide suitable travel arrangements, then the booking is null and void, and they have no right to retain deposit which was paid for a holiday PLUS travel .

The differences in booking policies is due to travel protection laws in your country.

The differences in booking policies is due to travel protection laws in your country.

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Hi underwater,

booking, of course, in the u.k.

the huge disparity in the deals ,prices ,and booking practices between us an the u.s. is of course, completely unfair, and is another bugbear of mine. Cruise companies don't seem to realise customers have access to the internet!

But the point of my original post is that I believe that what Princess cruises is doing is illegal. If they can not subsequent to booking provide suitable travel arrangements, then the booking is null and void, and they have no right to retain deposit which was paid for a holiday PLUS travel .

You shall book the airline tickets yourself if time or airline is important for you.

If you let the cruiseline book your flight, "suitable travel arrangements" only means that you can get to and from the ship.

The differences in booking policies is due to travel protection laws in your country.

No it's not. There's nothing stopping them offering refundable deposits or cheaper cruises etc. Travel protection laws add £4pp to the cost of the holiday.

 

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Well, according this government website, companies are allowed to keep deposits.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/unfair-terms-explained-for-businesses-full-guide#deposits-advance-payment-and-cancellation-charges

Here is some of the wording on the site (the site is for companies, not customers):

"If your customer cancels and it's not your fault, you've got the right to protect yourself, but what you keep must take into account what your business is actually losing as a result. It must not be excessive"

"A deposit is just to reserve the goods/services and is no more than a small percentage of the total price."

"You set non-refundable payments or cancellation charges so they reflect a genuine estimate of what you will lose directly because of the customer cancellation"

This government website makes mjkacmom's comment correct.

Well, according this government website, companies are allowed to not refund deposits.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/unfair-terms-explained-for-businesses-full-guide#deposits-advance-payment-and-cancellation-charges

 

Here is some of the wording on the site (the site is for companies, not customers):

 

"If your customer cancels and it's not your fault, you've got the right to protect yourself, but what you keep must take into account what your business is actually losing as a result. It must not be excessive"

 

"A deposit is just to reserve the goods/services and is no more than a small percentage of the total price."

 

"You set non-refundable payments or cancellation charges so they reflect a genuine estimate of what you will lose directly because of the customer cancellation"

But they don't have too.

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They've got the right to keep the deposit

But they don't have too.

 

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If they incur expense or risk of loss revenue, it makes sense to keep the deposit. I am confident that there is a cost to the cruise companies when people cancel their reservations, especially when approaching sail date.

As a US citizen who enjoys the generous deposit refund policies in my country, I still have to wonder why cruise lines allow such leniency. Just before final payment is due, dozens of reservations are cancelled, which must cost the companies lost revenues because of the sudden glut of available staterooms, forcing them to lower prices to fill them. Some of these cancellations are by people who put deposits on several cruises in the same time frame only to cancel at the last minute all but the one they have decided to go on, knowing they will get those cancelled deposits fully refunded. And the cruise lines must know this is happening.

From a business standpoint, this policy doesn't make much sense. I suspect that in the US there are laws that do the exact opposite of your country - require deposits to be refundable. Can't say for sure, but just a suspicion. Otherwise, why would the cruise lines continue to create this situation for themselves.

Book the cruise early to get the cabin you want. Book flights with refundable air.

Then you can add EZ air later when you can see what flights they are proposing and if you don’t like them take your original flight?

Hi underwater,

booking, of course, in the u.k.

the huge disparity in the deals ,prices ,and booking practices between us an the u.s. is of course, completely unfair, and is another bugbear of mine. Cruise companies don't seem to realise customers have access to the internet!

But the point of my original post is that I believe that what Princess cruises is doing is illegal. If they can not subsequent to booking provide suitable travel arrangements, then the booking is null and void, and they have no right to retain deposit which was paid for a holiday PLUS travel .

This is basically an issue of YOUR definition of 'suitable' being different than that of Princess. Illegal? Almost certainly not. Unreasonable? Maybe - we know zero specifics so cannot judge! Unreasonable ENOUGH that you have a case...? Check the policy wording - unless they actually guarantee that you will be put on a specific category of flight, the most direct possible flight, give the customer a choice of X flight times and routes, I have a strong suspicion that any flight that gets you to the cruise before it departs (or if you also booked a pre-cruise hotel, the appropriate number of days beforehand) with no more than one stop more than the most efficient routing would be seen as 'suitable' by almost anyone, and definitely would by an arbitrator/mediator/judge unless there was a ridiculous layover time during which multiple other flights could have been taken.

Having successfully made several complaints against UK travel companies while we lived there, I'm very aware that when it comes to arbitration or Small Court claims at least, words like 'suitable' and 'reasonable' are interpreted by the mediator/judge as 'would Joe Q Public or Ford Mondeo Man think this offering meets the definition?'

e.g. if you COULD book a non-stop from say Belfast to Rome but Princess choose to put you on a small plane to London first with a 4 hour layover, you have absolutely zero hope of a claim. But if they route you to Oslo, then Prague, then Barcelona before eventually getting to Rome you'd win that case - only an idiot would say that is a 'reasonable' choice of route from Belfast.

Look at your specifics with that in mind - the UK has strong travel protection rules, and they are relatively easy for consumers to access and understand. If Princess are screwing with you - raise a complaint! But if you're just venting because your travel is taking a few hours more than you'd prefer, or on an airline you don't collect points with, in future you simply need to book your own flights using your preferred airline/route/class.

If they incur expense or risk of loss revenue, it makes sense to keep the deposit. I am confident that there is a cost to the cruise companies when people cancel their reservations, especially when approaching sail date.

 

As a US citizen who enjoys the generous deposit refund policies in my country, I still have to wonder why cruise lines allow such leniency. Just before final payment is due, dozens of reservations are cancelled, which must cost the companies lost revenues because of the sudden glut of available staterooms, forcing them to lower prices to fill them. Some of these cancellations are by people who put deposits on several cruises in the same time frame only to cancel at the last minute all but the one they have decided to go on, knowing they will get those cancelled deposits fully refunded. And the cruise lines must know this is happening.

 

From a business standpoint, this policy doesn't make much sense. I suspect that in the US there are laws that do the exact opposite of your country - require deposits to be refundable. Can't say for sure, but just a suspicion. Otherwise, why would the cruise lines continue to create this situation for themselves.

It's because it is popular with the public and results in more bookings.

You shall book the airline tickets yourself if time or airline is important for you.

 

If you let the cruiseline book your flight, "suitable travel arrangements" only means that you can get to and from the ship.

Hi, thanks for your input.

Let me expand my argument a little.

Of course I can book my own travel arrangements, and the cruise company loves this.. why? because it lets them off the hook in the event of delays or flight cancellations.

If they arrange my travel, then they are obligated to get me there and back, no matter what happens.

If I book and the same thing happens.... tough!.

Hi, thanks for your input.

Let me expand my argument a little.

Of course I can book my own travel arrangements, and the cruise company loves this.. why? because it lets them off the hook in the event of delays or flight cancellations.

If they arrange my travel, then they are obligated to get me there and back, no matter what happens.

If I book and the same thing happens.... tough!.

Possibly in the UK, but not in the US. They are obliged to TRY to get you there. Read the fine print.

Possibly in the UK, but not in the US. They are obliged to TRY to get you there. Read the fine print.

I think this is the same as in the UK. You cannot guarantee anything, remember the "no fly" situations which occurred in the past, post 911 and the volcano ash in more recent years. The point is with your own flight arrangements the ship is more likely to sail without you sooner then the legal position is different too with sorting out the aftermath. You have a better situation with cruise line arrangements if it comes to this.

Personally I would choose my own flights and with a transatlantic or other long haul plan at least one day near port in a hotel. Staying within Europe I would book own flights based on what is on offer to get to nearest airport at an early morning arrival on the day. I think one of the problems inexperienced travellers have is sales pressure based on price which leads to inconvenient flight times and convoluted routing. Inexperienced travellers do not know the pitfalls and if they go to a travel agent which lacks in depth knowledge of cruising there could well be a problem. The original poster comes from Northern Ireland which is a tricky start point.

Regards John