Huge brawl on the Legend, with video.

So, what if you or a family member was in that potentially lethal hold? How would you want them to help you? Just asking

By their employers spending a bit of their profits on training their staff on how to tackle unruly people and deal with it properly.

I’m pretty sure a few pressure point pinches to get them release is preferable to assault.

I’m fairly sure everyone on the forum would be singing the praises of the staff for doing so, though I’ve read enough to believe any excuse for s bit of violence is good enough so maybe not everyone.

If I was an Australian government official, I would want an investigation into this. The cost of Australian governmental resources used to supplement Carnival's apparent lack of proper onboard security would be a legitimate concern.

again check out msn.com news .the Washington post has a lot better view about what went on.it wasn't just one incident.a lot more info than the video.

Really bad situation with Carnival looking pretty bad after.

However the most worrying part for me is the inability and general ineptitude of security to handle a bunch of drunk bogans.

Its just a matter of time until the terrorist types click and say hmmm, a 3000 person vessel with a dozen unarmed, untrained security guards in the middle of nowhere. Hazard waiting to happen, I just hope I'm not on that ship.

Carnival loyalists need to step in here now. It is getting difficult for those of us who try to see mass market cruise lines being very similar and not trying to be so condescending to those who choose Carnival over other mass market cruise lines.

Really bad situation with Carnival looking pretty bad after.

 

 

 

However the most worrying part for me is the inability and general ineptitude of security to handle a bunch of drunk bogans.

 

 

 

Its just a matter of time until the terrorist types click and say hmmm, a 3000 person vessel with a dozen unarmed, untrained security guards in the middle of nowhere. Hazard waiting to happen, I just hope I'm not on that ship.

I love cruising but I indeed am also scared it is just a matter of time before ship’s poor security encourage terrorists attacks. God help us.

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Correct but the super cheap fares are attracting certain types of people.

 

 

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Not every person of limited means taking their dream vacation spends their time getting drunk and brawling.

I've seen people in premium seating areas at sports events where the tickets are $500 each act that way.

”... but I can think of no reasonable excuse for a security guard to kick someone when they're already down on the ground.

I think the security were totally justified in laying the boot to the perpetrators, providing they were kicking the right combatant. If you read the news story linked posted a few posts up, guests were saying this family of 20 was making a habit of starting fights the entire cruise. The article further states that security sought it necessary to follow the around due to their fighting and harassing other guests. As another poster pointed out, security did not have the necessary equipment to deal with such a situation (tasers, stun weapons, or anything more than a notepad and pencil). They had no alternative other than enter the melee to protect other guests, and it would have been foolish for 5’2” Filipino security guards to engage in fisticuffs with those goons.

Quite frankly, though, most of the kicks were pretty wimpy. They should have launched some good authoritative kicks to the head given the size, history and combativeness of the hooligans. I hope Carnival develops some proper training programs out of this.

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I believe it has been stated here before from posters with active or past law enforcement experience. They do not agree that kicks to a human being on a floor is an acceptable response.

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I love cruising but I indeed am also scared it is just a matter of time before ship’s poor security encourage terrorists attacks. God help us.

 

 

 

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I hope not; that is a very scary thought.

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I think the security were totally justified in laying the boot to the perpetrators, providing they were kicking the right combatant. If you read the news story linked posted a few posts up, guests were saying this family of 20 was making a habit of starting fights the entire cruise. The article further states that security sought it necessary to follow the around due to their fighting and harassing other guests. As another poster pointed out, security did not have the necessary equipment to deal with such a situation (tasers, stun weapons, or anything more than a notepad and pencil). They had no alternative other than enter the melee to protect other guests, and it would have been foolish for 5’2” Filipino security guards to engage in fisticuffs with those goons.

 

Quite frankly, though, most of the kicks were pretty wimpy. They should have launched some good authoritative kicks to the head given the size, history and combativeness of the hooligans. I hope Carnival develops some proper training programs out of this.

 

 

 

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If they had been walking around doing this the whole cruise; the why weren’t they kicked of the ship while in port, or sitting in the brig?

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The security staff appears out numbered in this case. I doubt any cruise line has the on board security staff to deal with 20+ thugs. Most ship’s staff security to deal with the occasional confrontation between one or two passengers. You can staff ships with a large squad of well trained security guards on every ship, but it will be reflected in your cruise fare. You would also have to resigned ships with larger detention facilities.

I have been on many cruises, and never seen anything like this incident. It is a cost benefit decision. Are passengers willing to pay more for a large security presence that is needed one out of a thousand cruises, or is current security staffing sufficient in most instances? Many passengers might answer they want ample security and no fare increase. However, the world does not work that way. I am fine with current security arrangements on cruise lines. This incident is clearly an abboration, and should not be the basis for setting security protocol on all future sailings

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Snoody much?! Those lowered prices have afforded my family to expand our vacation options and also allow for more that just one trip a year. Now that more schools are going to a balanced calendar with a 2 week Spring Break and a week long Fall Break, we have 3 decent chances for getaways. So maybe instead of referring to us frugal conscious consumers as “Ferals” you should remember that my family’s money spends just as well as yours.

 

 

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Thanks for this. I’m cheap and at times in my life I’ve also been poor but in 51 years I’ve never been violent. It’s poor logic to assume so. Anyway I have known plenty of people who spend $$ they can’t really afford so charging more just means more debt for them that they are not managing very well. Furthermore some moneyed people get it through inheritance or questionable means. Hardly guarantees a perfect class of humanity.

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Thanks for this. I’m cheap and at times in my life I’ve also been poor but in 51 years I’ve never been violent. It’s poor logic to assume so. Anyway I have known plenty of people who spend $$ they can’t really afford so charging more just means more debt for them that they are not managing very well. Furthermore some moneyed people get it through inheritance or questionable means. Hardly guarantees a perfect class of humanity.

 

 

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I don't think this was a money issue, it was a 'attitude' issue!

A large group who thought because they were a large group could do/say/act anyway they wanted!

99.9% of large groups would never think of acting like this, cause its not normal, its mentally ill! From the reporting, this large group had an 'attitude', as those on the ship stated, they were looking for trouble from day one!

Security behavior was abysmal.

 

 

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/02/16/06/29/carnival-legend-cruise-passengers-violent-brawl

 

I wonder if carnival does any training for security personnel, or do they higher thugs off the street? Not sure if I want to do my Australian cruise with them in 2019.

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By their employers spending a bit of their profits on training their staff on how to tackle unruly people and deal with it properly.

 

I’m pretty sure a few pressure point pinches to get them release is preferable to assault.

 

I’m fairly sure everyone on the forum would be singing the praises of the staff for doing so, though I’ve read enough to believe any excuse for s bit of violence is good enough so maybe not everyone.

It's too bad they were let on in the first place. I know that the manifest isn't checked to see if anyone onboard has warrants out against them until after the ship sails.

So, if we have to do an online check in prior to showing up at the port, you mean the authorities don't have some way to, I don't know, quick scan the passenger list to see if anyone might be a potential issue? I can't imagine this family not having a rap sheet of some kind already.

It would have been nice for them to have been flagged prior and then denied boarding.

I wonder if carnival does any training for security personnel, or do they higher thugs off the street? Not sure if I want to do my Australian cruise with them in 2019.

Wow, you have hit on the answer....cancel the cruise that will show them

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Well this is a great precedent to set for potential copycats. You can wreak havoc for up to 9 days, threatening, punching, choking, and throwing out ethnic slurs like "Australian Dogs"? Without consequence or restraint???

And hey, when you finally take it too far, security will finish the job, by slapping and punching passengers, to get those pesky cameras away. This will be considered by some, 15 minutes of fame and fun:

I believe it has been stated here before from posters with active or past law enforcement experience. They do not agree that kicks to a human being on a floor is an acceptable response.

 

 

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They may not agree, but there have been videos of them doing exactly that or worse.

Most law enforcement are very, very good, however even they have bad apples that kick, hit with batons, etc. while the perpetrator is down.

The very small in stature security certainly wasn't going to subdue the morons.

Is it poor training and lack of means YES probably.

Let's put the blame where it belongs and THAT is with the trouble makers.

The security staff appears out numbered in this case. I doubt any cruise line has the on board security staff to deal with 20+ thugs. Most ship’s staff security to deal with the occasional confrontation between one or two passengers. You can staff ships with a large squad of well trained security guards on every ship, but it will be reflected in your cruise fare. You would also have to resigned ships with larger detention facilities.

 

I have been on many cruises, and never seen anything like this incident. It is a cost benefit decision. Are passengers willing to pay more for a large security presence that is needed one out of a thousand cruises, or is current security staffing sufficient in most instances? Many passengers might answer they want ample security and no fare increase. However, the world does not work that way. I am fine with current security arrangements on cruise lines. This incident is clearly an abboration, and should not be the basis for setting security protocol on all future sailings

 

 

 

 

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One word, DEPUTIZE.

What exactly was crew supposed to do instead of kicking someone to get them off of someone? What if they had them in a chokehold and that was the only way to get them off? What would you do? Suppose that person was getting strangled? What then? This was an extreme circumstance. If that was me being pinned by some psychotic drunk i would thank the crew members. Some of these reactions about the crew are ridiculous. I agree they should have all been removed at the first port for being a danger. But since they weren't and it was out of control the crew did the best they could.

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The security staff appears out numbered in this case. I doubt any cruise line has the on board security staff to deal with 20+ thugs. Most ship’s staff security to deal with the occasional confrontation between one or two passengers. You can staff ships with a large squad of well trained security guards on every ship, but it will be reflected in your cruise fare. You would also have to resigned ships with larger detention facilities.

 

I have been on many cruises, and never seen anything like this incident. It is a cost benefit decision. Are passengers willing to pay more for a large security presence that is needed one out of a thousand cruises, or is current security staffing sufficient in most instances? Many passengers might answer they want ample security and no fare increase. However, the world does not work that way. I am fine with current security arrangements on cruise lines. This incident is clearly an abboration, and should not be the basis for setting security protocol on all future sailings

If I were in management at Carnival, I’d look for a way to make a small public area lockable in case the need to detain a large group ever arose again. For the ships with conference rooms, this would probably be the easiest, but for those without, something like Ocean Plaza could be redesigned to be closed off (like the gates that close off stores in the mall). Obviously the goal is still to put them off at first opportunity, but in the event that wasn’t possible, it would at least buy some time to arrange some interior cabins to sequester them until they could be put off.

If I were in management at Carnival, I’d look for a way to make a small public area lockable in case the need to detain a large group ever arose again. For the ships with conference rooms, this would probably be the easiest, but for those without, something like Ocean Plaza could be redesigned to be closed off (like the gates that close off stores in the mall). Obviously the goal is still to put them off at first opportunity, but in the event that wasn’t possible, it would at least buy some time to arrange some interior cabins to sequester them until they could be put off.

Agree!

Since most cruises(other then trans-ocean) are within 1 day of land, the reported 3 days of violence would seem totally unacceptable for most cruisers!

It's too bad they were let on in the first place. I know that the manifest isn't checked to see if anyone onboard has warrants out against them until after the ship sails.

Very interesting. Where did you get this information? I thought online check in is closed 72 hours before the ship sails so that the manifest can be provided to authorities, including homeland security in the USA?