Star Princess investigation

[BugsyCruiser]

none of our discussions will have any bearings on the outcome of the investigations, so you can cease being concerned.

 

Last time I checked I have a right to say what I want, thanks. My response was to another person who clearly made a statement that Captains can no longer be trusted.

[H82seaUgo]

Last time I checked I have a right to say what I want, thanks. My response was to another person who clearly made a statement that Captains can no longer be trusted.

 

 

you certainly do, as do we.

 

unfortunately, this incident had more deaths than the star princess fire.

[PescadoAmarillo]

So many new people hired by all the cruise lines to staff all the new ships over the last few years. Plus most of the staff on a cruise ship are not seamen. They are dealing with the hotel side and hospitality side. It is easy to see how there could be a miscommunication or non comunication to the bridge.

Exactly this. Certainly the Concordia incident proved that we mat not be able to count on the ship's photographers and shops' crew in the event of an emergency. For things to go exactly as planned and practiced, everyone has to perform their assigned role with courage and endurance. There are plenty of opportunities for things to go wrong.

[BugsyCruiser]

you certainly do, as do we.

 

I understand that. All I was doing was responding to another poster who seems to have already leveled judgement against the Captain. I know that poster is not the only one to do it, but just my opinion of course, I wish people would wait till the investigation is completed before the rush to judgement.

 

However I will agree with you that with so many incidents happening this year in the cruising industry it does make one stop and think

[H82seaUgo]

I understand that. All I was doing was responding to another poster who seems to have already leveled judgement against the Captain. I know that poster is not the only one to do it, but just my opinion of course, I wish people would wait to the investigation is completed before the rush to judgement.

 

 

and that posters opinion will have no direct impact on the captain, which is my point. i'm reading people rush to judgement on both sides.

 

pretty common these days.

[caribill]

"Perhaps it would be in the interests of a complete and thorough and fair investigation not to make determinations about the conclusions of an investigation before they've even been reached,"

 

Above quote is from a representative of President Obama commenting on the investigation into recent Secret Service activities in South America.

 

Seems the same quote applies here.

[H82seaUgo]

"Perhaps it would be in the interests of a complete and thorough and fair investigation not to make determinations about the conclusions of an investigation before they've even been reached,"

 

Above quote is from a representative of President Obama commenting on the investigation into recent Secret Service activities in South America.

 

Seems the same quote applies here.

 

he seemed to miss that line of thinking with the boston police, the firing of that woman whose speech was taken out of context, and numerous other occasions.

[BugsyCruiser]

he seemed to miss that line of thinking with the boston police and numerous other occasions.

 

Where's the "like" button? You hit the nail on the head right there

[SnowBird Cruzer]

1. People jump to conclusions.

2. They make conclusive statements about what MUST have happened but they weren't there.

3. Then they turn on each other, hiding behind their anonymity

 

I noticed the same thing when the Carnival Splendour had its fire a year or two ago. Everyone knew what Carnival would do. And they were almost all wrong, in the end.

 

My only comment on the issue at hand, though, is I don't know who or how I would report something such as spotting a ship in (possible) distress. I've never thought about it. We have muster drills but this would be something different. My next cruise isn't for some time. I wonder if I'll remember to inquire about the process.

 

Final thoughts.

As for the Captain. You don't get to be a ship's captain if you aren't an upstanding person.

As for the 3 youngsters. Hindsight is 20/20 and we all have had situations where we woulda, coulda, shoulda done something different.

As for Princess (and other organizations involved) The bottom will be gotten to.

 

I've never subscribed to any conspiracy theories.

It's sad that two young men died due to an accident.

[Eileen G]

This is possibly not relevant, but I found myself wondering how many false (mistaken, really) reports the bridge gets on each cruise. With so many people on board, many of them not having any experience at all about the sea and the people who sail it, you would think there would be many panicked reports that are really nothing at all.

 

My DH and I were discussing this situation last night and wondered the same thing. It is possible that they frequently get passangers tell them they saw a small boat and thought it was stranded. Who knows maybe that is why the report didn't go any further.

[H82seaUgo]

1. People jump to conclusions.

2. They make conclusive statements about what MUST have happened but they weren't there.

3. Then they turn on each other, hiding behind their anonymity

 

I noticed the same thing when the Carnival Splendour had its fire a year or two ago. Everyone knew what Carnival would do. And they were almost all wrong, in the end.

 

 

 

actually, the only ones that got it wrong was the press, and those that were not reading the john heald blogs. we were fully updated daily and regularly.

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

It is sad that people have died, however can we spare a thought for

 

Captain Ed Perrin, his photo has been published in newspapers,

 

he has been blamed for there the loss of life on the fishing boat,

 

I think a few here need to say sorry, but with the internet we

 

can say almost what we want and hide behind our key boards.

 

 

yours Shogun

[islegroove]

Apparently it's a Bermuda-registered vessel.

 

http://bermudasun.bm/main.asp?FromHome=1&TypeID=1&ArticleID=58072&SectionID=24&SubSectionID=896

 

Derrick Burgess, Deputy Premier of Bermuda and Minister of Transport, said today: “We have met with our counsel from the Attorney General Chambers and fully apprised him of the situation. We have also met with the Bermuda Police Service and they have confirmed their commitment to assist as required.

 

“The gravity of the situation requires Bermuda to take appropriate steps to ensure “due diligence” is exercised in determining the legitimacy of the allegations. Therefore the Department of Maritime Administration has determined that it is the best interest of all concerned to commence its independent investigation.”

[Pam in CA]

That would make sense. Princess ships are registered either in Bermuda or the Bahamas.

[Shogun]

Hi all

 

 

"it is the best interest of all concerned to commence its independent investigation.”

 

 

nothing else needs to be said

 

yours Shogun

__________________

[RickEk]

Doesn't surprise me... that's what I said in the other thread should happen. :cool:

[gdisney]

1. People jump to conclusions.

2. They make conclusive statements about what MUST have happened but they weren't there.

3. Then they turn on each other, hiding behind their anonymity

......

As for the Captain. You don't get to be a ship's captain if you aren't an upstanding person.

As for the 3 youngsters. Hindsight is 20/20 and we all have had situations where we woulda, coulda, shoulda done something different.

As for Princess (and other organizations involved) The bottom will be gotten to.

......

It's sad that two young men died due to an accident.

 

I think this all sums it up rather nicely :)

[frediver]

And another spin on this may be relevant:

The Captain is responsible for his Ship.

The Captain is responsible for the passengers on

his Ship as well.

I can think of a couple of reasons why the Captain

might be suspicious of any small boat " in distress"

even if the report made it to him.

Launching a small boat from a Cruise ship is not

something to be undertaken lightly. He is putting his

ship, crew, and passengers in jeopardy by doing so!

I am sure if that small boat was showing any normally

recognizable signs of distress he would have launched a boat.

Unfortunately it is the Captains fault even if it is not !

The Costa Disaster is a totally different situation and

has no relevance to this thread except to say the Cruise Blood

is in the water and the reporters are circling waiting to

take a bite.

[Princess Chatterer]

I think that the Bridge definitely heard from the Princess sales rep. who had confirmed what the birdwatchers saw. Then most likely an officer on the bridge pulled out their binoculars to see the fisherman’s boat which was by then at some distance and difficult to see clearly. At that point the watch captain chose to ignore the birdwatchers phone call and let the ship’s autopilot keep the ship on schedule rather than manually turn the ship around for a second look.. I’m betting that Perrin was not on the bridge at the time and the watch captain felt that he would need the captain’s permission to change course, which would take a little time to get, and it was just soooo much easier to just let the ship sail on. So far there is zero evidence that the fishermen even had a radio or that the bridge "contacted" them.

 

Based on what I've read so far it appears that the Princess PR spin machine in Santa Clarita is running wild rather than coming clean about what the birdwatchers told the bridge and what the bridge did to respond.

[H82seaUgo]

I think that the Bridge definitely heard from the Princess sales rep. who had confirmed what the birdwatchers saw. Then most likely an officer on the bridge pulled out their binoculars to see the fisherman’s boat which was by then at some distance and difficult to see clearly. At that point the watch captain chose to ignore the birdwatchers phone call and let the ship’s autopilot keep the ship on schedule rather than manually turn the ship around for a second look.. I’m betting that Perrin was not on the bridge at the time and the watch captain felt that he would need the captain’s permission to change course, which would take a little time to get, and it was just soooo much easier to just let the ship sail on. So far there is zero evidence that the fishermen even had a radio or that the bridge "contacted" them.

 

Based on what I've read so far it appears that the Princess PR spin machine in Santa Clarita is running wild rather than coming clean about what the birdwatchers told the bridge and what the bridge did to respond.

 

I think this all sums it up rather nicely :)

[H82seaUgo]

http://www.ocala.com/article/20120420/WIRE/120429989

[Beopthtuh]

Hi All

 

It is sad that people have died, however can we spare a thought for

 

Captain Ed Perrin, his photo has been published in newspapers,

 

he has been blamed for there the loss of life on the fishing boat,

 

I think a few here need to say sorry, but with the internet we

 

can say almost what we want and hide behind our key boards.

 

 

yours Shogun

everyone is judge judy on here ,

they get half the information and got the noose round cptn perins neck.

 

 

1. People jump to conclusions.

2. They make conclusive statements about what MUST have happened but they weren't there.

3. Then they turn on each other, hiding behind their anonymity

 

I noticed the same thing when the Carnival Splendour had its fire a year or two ago. Everyone knew what Carnival would do. And they were almost all wrong, in the end.

 

My only comment on the issue at hand, though, is I don't know who or how I would report something such as spotting a ship in (possible) distress. I've never thought about it. We have muster drills but this would be something different. My next cruise isn't for some time. I wonder if I'll remember to inquire about the process.

 

Final thoughts.

As for the Captain. You don't get to be a ship's captain if you aren't an upstanding person.

As for the 3 youngsters. Hindsight is 20/20 and we all have had situations where we woulda, coulda, shoulda done something different.

As for Princess (and other organizations involved) The bottom will be gotten to.

 

I've never subscribed to any conspiracy theories.

It's sad that two young men died due to an accident.

 

the truth will come out in time ,

[generichandle]

Sums it up. Except to say this.

 

Princess/Carnival, even RCI, have indeed rescued MANY people in need. Of course, when something goes wrong the press will indeed notice it more. BUT, a certain positive publicity does accrue from rescues of people in need. And NEVER, as at least having been admitted, has a Captain been admonished for checking, even if it turns out to not be an emergency.

 

All that being true, it is hard to imagine why Captain Perrin would NOT have stopped had he been aware. Therefore; I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, that he likely never was informed.

 

It is sad that such an opportunity was lost, and that two young men were lost with it. But let us see.

 

PS: Yes, I find it difficult to reconcile the actions of GZ in the death of TM too, but I WILL give the system time to resolve what it can there, too. Sadly, in all cases, no system works to perfection.

 

Doug

[Loonbeam]

Except for the fact there is absolutely no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise to support this view. None. According to the Princess statement (and I will take that statement to represent fact because legal exposure would be brutal if they lied and they know it), the officer of the watch was not informed.

 

"Neither Captain Edward Perrin nor the officer of the watch were notified."

 

NO ONE other than the people involved right now know exactly what was said to whom when once it got past the PSD or CC host or whomever. And even that is subject to debate unless confirmed by another party.

 

Until that comes out, we can't assume anyone did anything. It WILL come out, but these things take time. You basically accused the Officer of the Watch of manslaughter without evidence that he (or she) even knew what was occurring.

 

 

 

I think that the Bridge definitely heard from the Princess sales rep. who had confirmed what the birdwatchers saw. Then most likely an officer on the bridge pulled out their binoculars to see the fisherman’s boat which was by then at some distance and difficult to see clearly. At that point the watch captain chose to ignore the birdwatchers phone call and let the ship’s autopilot keep the ship on schedule rather than manually turn the ship around for a second look.. I’m betting that Perrin was not on the bridge at the time and the watch captain felt that he would need the captain’s permission to change course, which would take a little time to get, and it was just soooo much easier to just let the ship sail on. So far there is zero evidence that the fishermen even had a radio or that the bridge "contacted" them.

 

Based on what I've read so far it appears that the Princess PR spin machine in Santa Clarita is running wild rather than coming clean about what the birdwatchers told the bridge and what the bridge did to respond.

[BugsyCruiser]

Just went to Princess's Facebook page and so many on there just absolutely crucifying Princess and Captain Perrin... they basically have their mind made up that the Captain intentionally left them there and that he should be put to death.

 

Again as some other posters have said, we shouldn't rush to judgement. Let the investigation be completed and then we can decide. But alas I'm well aware that won't matter to those who have already made their mind up about this tragedy