Star Princess investigation

[BugsyCruiser]

I'm not willing to be judge, jury, and executioner. Was there mistakes made? Perhaps and probably. Did the Captain intentionally ignore this boat in distress? No, I absolutely cannot see that. From what I gather this man has been sailing for quite some time and I cannot believe for one second that he would intentionally ignore boaters in distress and not do everything he could in his power to help. I think it's a shame that so many people are willing to crucify him and the cruise line over this. The investigation continues and for now everyone should leave it at that IMHO

[Buddy604]

I thought that Princess' statement was fair. They take responsibility by agrreing that the fishing boat was there and the passengers reported it. There was a problem in communication to the bridge and they are investigating that. Clearly the Captain takes responsibility and feels terrible. Bad things happen and human error occurs. I think Princess is taking ownership of their role.

 

As the mother of 3 young men who think they are invincible I find the story heartbreaking, but it is not the fault of Princess. As stated they have rescued 30 boaters in 10 years. In this case they made a human error. Lets see what their investigations reveal.

Ok, I admit I am something of a Princess cheerleader, but I'm not so sure I would absolve them of fault in this instance. Was there malicious intent, or mens rea for a crime? I strongly doubt it. But there was actus reus and two teenagers are dead. I'm not quite ready to chalk it all up to "it's not their fault" yet.

[Putterdude]

Princess Statement on Facebook:

 

Princess Cruises deeply regrets that two Panamanian men perished at sea after their boat became disabled in early March. Since we became aware of this incident, we have been investigating circumstances surrounding the claim that Star Princess failed to come to the aid of the disabled boat, after a crew member was alerted by passengers.

 

The preliminary results of our investigation have shown that there appeared to be a breakdown in communication in relaying the passenger's concern. Neither Captain Edward Perrin nor the officer of the watch were notified. Understandably, Captain Perrin is devastated that he is being accused of knowingly turning his back on people in distress. Had the Captain received this information, he would have had the opportunity to respond.

We all understand that it is our responsibility and also the law of the sea to provide assistance to any vessel in distress, and it is not an uncommon occurrence for our ships to be involved in a rescue at sea. In fact, we have done so more than 30 times in the last ten years. We deeply regret this incident and are continuing our investigation to fully understand the circumstances.

 

Looks like a terrible series of errors.

 

I am happy to see this post and I feel extremely upset for Captain Perrin and angry with those who have condemned him. In an earlier post I provided a link to an article about a rescue that Perrin had been involved in a few years ago, he knows the law of the sea and has demonstrated that. However, on the surface this seems to reflect what I have been saying for a while now and that is Princess needs to invest more in training of their front line people, far too often when you approach them they look like deer caught in a car's headlights.

[flvol77]

Out of curiousity how did the US Coast Guard fail???

 

from the article, so the bird watchers DID try another means to help the people on the boat, but as I said the system failed, completely.

 

 

"Now the cruise ship was steaming away, and the castaways were fading towards the horizon, but Judy still would not give up. Determined to do something to try to help these men, she returned to her cabin and actually sent a message to the United States Coast Guard, in a frantic last-ditch effort to get help for the men on the fishing vessel. This is the text of the email Judy sent to the US Coast Guard;

• "Sent to US coast guard at 6 pm local time ( between CR and Ecuador) While on a cruise ship the Star Princess, between Ecuador and heading to Puntarenas Costa Rica, 3 of us are birding off the starboard deck with good optics and spotted a boat at about position 06 12.25 N and 083 29.08 W today, possibly about 10 miles SW of that location. The boat appeared to be a disabled fishing boat with one person aboard and nets strung up from the masts. The person was actively waving a shirt or fabric object up and down with both hands. Since we were so many miles off shore and had not seen ANY watercraft all day, we summoned a representative from the ship and asked him to phone the bridge. The rep then came back after calling the bridge of the Star Princess and looked through our scopes himself and could see the man waving something. By this time, he appeared farther away and was now waving a red flag. We took this to be a sign of distress. The boat could be disabled and the man adrift. The Star Princess did not turn around or appear to make any active attempt to deal with the information so we were bothered and decided to send information somewhere ourselves although we realize this is NOT US waters. We are 3 birders with a lot of experience at sea and were using Swarovski binoculars 10/50, a Swarovski spotting scope at 30 to 60 power and my KOWA scope at 30 to 60 power. We have no doubt whatsoever that we saw a man appearing to be in distress and want to be sure that someone who is able to communicate such information knows about it. Respectfully submitted, Judy Meredith, Bend, Oregon, 97701, but presently at sea and unable to make a phone call."
  

[Mom33]

Ok, I admit I am something of a Princess cheerleader, but I'm not so sure I would absolve them of fault in this instance. Was there malicious intent, or mens rea for a crime? I strongly doubt it. But there was actus reus and two teenagers are dead. I'm not quite ready to chalk it all up to "it's not their fault" yet.

 

Lets put some blame on all involved:

 

The birders for not following through when the ship didn't turn around. They should have made sure the message got to the bridge.

 

The person or persons on the crew that did not transmit the message to the Captain or the person on watch on the bridge.

 

The boaters for their lack of preparedness in such a situation. They should never have been in a boat without rescue flares, marine radio and any other number of other coast guard safety equipment. I know this is difficult to say, and will upset some, but true non the less.

 

One thing that I am sure of is that Capt. Perrin did not refuse to turn away from a boater in need. I would stake my life on that!

[Putterdude]

Here is a link to Princess's news release on this topic:

 

http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na1230

[Mom33]

from the article, so the bird watchers DID try another means to help the people on the boat, but as I said the system failed, completely.

 

 

"Now the cruise ship was steaming away, and the castaways were fading towards the horizon, but Judy still would not give up. Determined to do something to try to help these men, she returned to her cabin and actually sent a message to the United States Coast Guard, in a frantic last-ditch effort to get help for the men on the fishing vessel. This is the text of the email Judy sent to the US Coast Guard;

• "Sent to US coast guard at 6 pm local time ( between CR and Ecuador) While on a cruise ship the Star Princess, between Ecuador and heading to Puntarenas Costa Rica, 3 of us are birding off the starboard deck with good optics and spotted a boat at about position 06 12.25 N and 083 29.08 W today, possibly about 10 miles SW of that location. The boat appeared to be a disabled fishing boat with one person aboard and nets strung up from the masts. The person was actively waving a shirt or fabric object up and down with both hands. Since we were so many miles off shore and had not seen ANY watercraft all day, we summoned a representative from the ship and asked him to phone the bridge. The rep then came back after calling the bridge of the Star Princess and looked through our scopes himself and could see the man waving something. By this time, he appeared farther away and was now waving a red flag. We took this to be a sign of distress. The boat could be disabled and the man adrift. The Star Princess did not turn around or appear to make any active attempt to deal with the information so we were bothered and decided to send information somewhere ourselves although we realize this is NOT US waters. We are 3 birders with a lot of experience at sea and were using Swarovski binoculars 10/50, a Swarovski spotting scope at 30 to 60 power and my KOWA scope at 30 to 60 power. We have no doubt whatsoever that we saw a man appearing to be in distress and want to be sure that someone who is able to communicate such information knows about it. Respectfully submitted, Judy Meredith, Bend, Oregon, 97701, but presently at sea and unable to make a phone call."
  

 

 

A waste of time. She should have demanded to talk to the bridge directly instead of wasting time e-mailing the Coast Guard.

[flvol77]

just read the statement and its sad the information didn't get to the proper people, very sad.

This is something that concerns me about cruise lines, and I may get blasted but it has happened a lot to us.

I have noticed that people that are running the pursers desk don't take what passengers are saying very serious at all, I don't know if its a language barrier or the fact that they are working too many hours dealing with too many problems, Its been a problem especially on Princess, we have had a couple of serious situations that I brought to the pursers desk attention and they brushed it off.

I have no clue who the bird watchers went to, one would assume the pursers desk? But, they said they spoke with an officer, and that person felt it wasn't important enough to pass that information along to the bridge? That is a hell of a judgment call, one that should have been made by the captain, not some officer who thought he or she knew better.

I guess this hits me hard as I am studying to get a captain's license (sure it’s only a 6 pack) but its a serious reasonability, honestly I was upset with the captain at first now I just feel for him, as him crew let him and the people in charge down but not getting them the information and allowing him to make the call, now he has to live with that.

[Charles4515]

I am happy to see this post and I feel extremely upset for Captain Perrin and angry with those who have condemned him. In an earlier post I provided a link to an article about a rescue that Perrin had been involved in a few years ago, he knows the law of the sea and has demonstrated that. However, on the surface this seems to reflect what I have been saying for a while now and that is Princess needs to invest more in training of their front line people, far too often when you approach them they look like deer caught in a car's headlights.

 

So many new people hired by all the cruise lines to staff all the new ships over the last few years. Plus most of the staff on a cruise ship are not seamen. They are dealing with the hotel side and hospitality side. It is easy to see how there could be a miscommunication or non comunication to the bridge.

[BugsyCruiser]

Lets put some blame on all involved:

 

The birders for not following through when the ship didn't turn around. They should have made sure the message got to the bridge.

 

The person or persons on the crew that did not transmit the message to the Captain or the person on watch on the bridge.

 

The boaters for their lack of preparedness in such a situation. They should never have been in a boat without rescue flares, marine radio and any other number of other coast guard safety equipment. I know this is difficult to say, and will upset some, but true non the less.

 

One thing that I am sure of is that Capt. Perrin did not refuse to turn away from a boater in need. I would stake my life on that!

 

Excellent comment and agree with you 100 percent

[Ethel5]

A waste of time. She should have demanded to talk to the bridge directly instead of wasting time e-mailing the Coast Guard.

 

In another article it stated she "attempted" to e-mail the Coast Guard and got no reply. I don't think her e-mail to the CG went through.

 

There are too many changes in the stories being told. My biggest question is how did the one teen survive 28 days at sea while his two friends died after only a few days?

[PescadoAmarillo]

Lets put some blame on all involved:

 

The birders for not following through when the ship didn't turn around. They should have made sure the message got to the bridge.

 

The person or persons on the crew that did not transmit the message to the Captain or the person on watch on the bridge.

I could not disagree more with your first statement nor agree more with your second. The birders went above and beyond what most of us could have or would have been able to do. To place ANY blame on them as a Monday mining quarterback is cruel.

 

As I feared, it appears that the information was never relayed to the bridge. And that is very, very sad. The crew are the same people we're told to notify in the event of a man overboard situation. They are supposed to be well trained in the case of this sort of emergency. It gives me no amount of comfort to read of another maritime situation where the people in which we place our trust fail to live up to expectations.

 

I can't stand to think about those on the distressed boat- the joy at seeing a cruise ship and then the borrow and dismay as it sailed on past. It really does cause heartache to think about those people in those moments.

[Loonbeam]

The problem is, if the bridge was not notified, Princess has no way of verifying if the boat was there or not, because no one on the ship was looking for it until possibly too late to see it if at all.

 

But at least we have some facts to work with based on Princess' statement My comments are prefaced by >> to segregate them from the facts:

 

1> The Birders did in fact communicate to the ships crew (they said an officer, but yet to be confirmed) that there may be a ship in distress. We cannot confirm it is the boat in question, but that is now irrelevant to the discussion - the key issue now is the communication problem.

>> I am comfortable in making the assumption that if the bridge had received the concern in a timely manner it would have been acted on.

2> That message was not communicated to an active Bridge officer (I am making the assumption the Captain was on duty at the time). The reasons for this lack are unclear and are key to the situation.

>> There is a huge difference between someone disregarding the passenger's concern and not bothering to report, versus a message getting transferred incorrectly. The former should equal serious disciplinary issues, the latter requires a better procedure.

3> There was no followup with the passengers. I find this important because I would expect that if I reported this type of issue to the crew I would be contacted by a bridge officer to follow up.

>> If that did not happen, I would wonder why not and escalate. (Having learned that the alarm for the shower cord rings on the bridge on the UST I would have probably gone back to my cabin and pulled it to be sure I was put in contact, but that's not common knowledge).

 

 

The Princess statement did not say that the fishing boat was there.

 

It said a passenger tried to relay there was a boat but the message did not get to the bridge. Princess did not verify in this statement there was actually a boat.

[Pam in CA]

We don't know exactly who the birders reported this to but I believe they did what they thought was right. If they reported it to the Passenger Services Desk, I know from personal experience that they (the PSD) not only don't pass on reports but don't even log it in. Granted, my issue was one of a non-working toilet but I called, begged and went down there literally in tears to do something 3x/day for eight (8) days in a row. No response. That didn't happen on the Star but from that experience, I know it can happen. You think you're doing everything right but the system is flawed.

 

I feel very badly for Captain Perrin as I'm sure he's taking this personally and it will likely damage his career.

[bbq]

My wife and I were sitting waiting to see the future cruise consultant were our chairs were adjacent the Captain Circle desk. We heard the lady rundown and tell the captain circle guy, Ricardo, about the boat waving a white flag of sorts. Ricardo called someone and than two of the ships officers came to the desk and spoke to the lady. Ricardo has the facts and the coast guard should get the straight facts from him. We have been on more than one cruise with Ricardo and he seems like a straight and honorable guy. Carnival will cover their butts on this one. Time for Big Mickey to step aside and get someone to run the business full time. And the USA shouldn't let him go to Israel with billions untaxed like his father did! Sorry but two young men die while corporate carnival is covering themselves from the Costa, the burning ship and many cancelled nirovirsus laten cruises.

I 'll be Happy to testify!

[DizzyDallasDi]

Princess Statement on Facebook:

 

<snip>

 

The preliminary results of our investigation have shown that there appeared to be a breakdown in communication in relaying the passenger's concern. Neither Captain Edward Perrin nor the officer of the watch were notified.

 

<snip>

 

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

 

Happens all the time and there is never an excuse for it.

[DugboatLarry]

Eventually we will know this, maybe. In the mean time we will wash our hands before believing anything printed these days. It is called reading between the lines, and picking what ever your works for you. We will wait to pass judgement, and wear dark denim on shore. No one knows at this point exactly what happened.

[flag fan]

Deleted upon further reflection.

[Putterdude]

So many new people hired by all the cruise lines to staff all the new ships over the last few years. Plus most of the staff on a cruise ship are not seamen. They are dealing with the hotel side and hospitality side. It is easy to see how there could be a miscommunication or non comunication to the bridge.

 

I fully appreciate what you are saying but unfortunately it is no excuse for poorly trained staff.

[RickEk]

Most assuredly, whatever Maritime agency that governs the operation of these ships should investigate. Maybe it should be Bermuda, since that is where the ship is flagged.

 

http://www.gov.bm/portal/erver.pt?open=512&objID=251&mode=2&in_hi_userid=2&cached=true

[landnsea]

This item brings to mind the many times on our balcony we have looked out to sea to see a small craft only to wonder if the occupants therein were in some form of trouble. Do we say something? No. Do we bring it to anyone's attention? No. We do not want to be seen as alarmists. But this report makes us realize that it is better to be in error than to be negligent.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/17/cruise-company-ship-fishing-boat

 

 

OH MY GOD.......we just learned of this today, we were onboard The Star aswell for this sailing, we were in skywalkers, I remember looking out to the sea and seeing a very small boat in the distance, I thought to myself why would such a small boat be so far from land, I watched it as it finally fell from sight, I said nothing, now today I cant help but think about it.

I just feel so bad, if in fact that was the boat and for not saying anything.

 

The fact that others saw the boat and did in fact report it to the crew and nothing was done is.......just tragic to say the least.

 

John,Laura and Gaby

Seattle,Wa.

[rdsqrl]

My first thought was that it was indeed a hoax. Sounds like the set-up for a perfect murder --the kid kills his two "friends," probably on day one, but has to avoid being found for long enough that it seems like they would have died of exposure/dehydration. Meanwhile, he has plenty of water and food, although maybe miscalculated and did run out because it took longer to be found than he thought once he was ready to be "rescued." He probably did see a cruise ship at some point and realized that blaming them for not stopping to pick him up could result in a nice hefty settlement for him. I smell a CSI episode. . . .

 

Hey, it makes as much sense as the knee-jerk blaming of a respected, experienced captain who is notable for having participated in other at-sea rescues, or blaming Mickey Arison (seriously?).

 

[gdisney]

My biggest question is how did the one teen survive 28 days at sea while his two friends died after only a few days?

 

Well, according to the timeline reported in the initial article posted here, it was 14 days before the first person died, then 5 days later the second one died, then 9 days later the third guy was rescued. Another article I read somewhere said a passing rainstorm a few days after the second guy died allowed the lone survivor to collect enough fresh water to survive.

 

Edit: here's the article that talked of the rain; this one says 26 days not 28, and gives a little more info on their timeline at sea. This is linked in the article the OP posted initially

[RickEk]

My first thought was that it was indeed a hoax. Sounds like the set-up for a perfect murder --the kid kills his two "friends," probably on day one, but has to avoid being found for long enough that it seems like they would have died of exposure/dehydration. Meanwhile, he has plenty of water and food, although maybe miscalculated and did run out because it took longer to be found than he thought once he was ready to be "rescued." He probably did see a cruise ship at some point and realized that blaming them for not stopping to pick him up could result in a nice hefty settlement for him. I smell a CSI episode. . . .

 

Hey, it makes as much sense as the knee-jerk blaming of a respected, experienced captain who is notable for having participated in other at-sea rescues, or blaming Mickey Arison (seriously?).

 

 

What, you don't believe that Captain Perrin was on the line with Arison and Arison said "let 'em die..." ?? :rolleyes:

[bdjam]

"Sent to US coast guard at 6 pm local time ( between CR and Ecuador) While on a cruise ship the Star Princess, between Ecuador and heading to Puntarenas Costa Rica, 3 of us are birding off the starboard deck with good optics and spotted a boat at about position 06 12.25 N and 083 29.08 W today, possibly about 10 miles SW of that location.

I'm wondering how Judy knew the exact position, within 10 miles due southwest, where the boat was? Or where Star Princess was for that matter...?

Time for Big Mickey to step aside and get someone to run the business full time. And the USA shouldn't let him go to Israel with billions untaxed like his father did! Sorry but two young men die while corporate carnival is covering themselves from the Costa, the burning ship and many cancelled nirovirsus laten cruises.

:rolleyes:

Understandably, Captain Perrin is devastated that he is being accused of knowingly turning his back on people in distress.

'nuff said