Star Princess investigation

[Sunviking]

The death of the two young men is very tragic.

 

I have to say that I find it also to be a tragedy that the good name, and indeed life, of a fine seaman can be ruined by sensationalistic media and a rush to judgment by people before knowing all the facts. How often in recent years have people been tried in the court of public opinion and later found to be innocent? I can think of a number of cases as we all probably can.

[Poulsbo Cruisers]

If you go to www.gma.yahoo.com, there's a link to a story about this that includes a video taken by the birders.

 

I think what happened is a case of miscommunication. Somewhere, somehow, the report and timing don't coincide. The birders did what I would consider the appropriate action. It's what happened next that IMHO is where the stories diverge and the miscommunication occurred. The birders and the video from the link above show no other fishing or other boats. The Captain is reported to say that there were boats around (as did some of the people on the ship on this thread) and he contacted one of them. Both can't be correct for the same time period. I can't imagine Captain Perrin not responding when notified but I can speculate that the "officer" who said he would report the birder's sighting either didn't do so or told someone else who failed to notify the bridge immediately. I think we're going to see another case of human misjudgment and failure. :(

 

As for whether or not the fisherman recognized the ship, there were few or no other large cruise ships in that region at that time. We were on a repositioning cruise and few lines have itineraries going anywhere near Ecuador. Expedition ships but not big cruise ships.

 

I couldn't get the link that Pam supplied to work. Try this one if you are having trouble. http://gma.yahoo.com/princess-cruises-investigate-why-captain-ignored-distress-call-233100964--abc-news-topstories.html

[chipmaster]

Well if true, truely sad and a breakdown with sad consequences to the stranded crew as well as the officers and captaion of the Princess ship :eek:

 

A capatain in the end regardless of prior track record / history / etc. etc is fully responsble for what happens on his ship, the actions of his crew and the outcome. That after all is part of the perks of being captain is it NOT? No different than the Costa circus that it comes down to the capatain and how he leads and what he expects of his crew.

 

This item brings to mind the many times on our balcony we have looked out to sea to see a small craft only to wonder if the occupants therein were in some form of trouble. Do we say something? No. Do we bring it to anyone's attention? No. We do not want to be seen as alarmists. But this report makes us realize that it is better to be in error than to be negligent.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/17/cruise-company-ship-fishing-boat

[frediver]

And what about the responsibilities of the boat in distress?

No mirror

No radio

No smoke

No radar reflector

No Sea Dye

If they can afford gas then they can also afford all the above except

possibly the radio.

Just waving hands and maybe a small flag??

After watching the video I would say nothing there to catch my eye,

indicate distress, warrant a change in course or stopping the ship.

Is there a different video available?

Perhaps deep pockets are at work here??

[chipmaster]

What if one of those you men was your child or grandchild and it could have been prevented?

 

The death of the two young men is very tragic.

 

I have to say that I find it also to be a tragedy that the good name, and indeed life, of a fine seaman can be ruined by sensationalistic media and a rush to judgment by people before knowing all the facts. How often in recent years have people been tried in the court of public opinion and later found to be innocent? I can think of a number of cases as we all probably can.

[Sunviking]

What if one of those you men was your child or grandchild and it could have been prevented?

 

I can only surmise you didn't read what I wrote. The deaths of the 2 men were tragic. That being said, do you not believe that the facts should be ascertained before condemning the captain of the ship?

[Pam in CA]

And what about the responsibilities of the boat in distress?

No mirror

No radio

No smoke

No radar reflector

No Sea Dye

If they can afford gas then they can also afford all the above except

possibly the radio.

Just waving hands and maybe a small flag??

After watching the video I would say nothing there to catch my eye,

indicate distress, warrant a change in course or stopping the ship.

Is there a different video available?

Perhaps deep pockets are at work here??

These were just kids, 16 and 18 years old. They're invincible at this age. When was the last time your 16- or 18-year old made sure there were flares, reflective signs, blankets or whatever in the car when driving at night on a snowy road? Do any of you/us? This wasn't a commercial fishing boat with adults onboard, like you'd see on Deadliest Catch. It was a local boat that did fishing. We don't even know whether these kids took the boat out fishing or "joyriding."

[gdisney]

And what about the responsibilities of the boat in distress?

No mirror

No radio

No smoke

No radar reflector

No Sea Dye

 

Actually, when I first heard about this story I found myself wondering why they didn't have oars on board in case of engine failure, so they could potentially row back before drifting too far to sea. I guess hindsight is always 20/20 :(

[frediver]

If it was my child or grand child I would not be letting them out on the boat UNLESS they had a few basic safety items. There is personal responsibility.

Darwin sucks but does work. When you require and expect people to be responsible you often find they act that way.

Yes it is sad this happened but from what I saw in the video posted there was no reason to stop the ship, ie: no regular distress signal given !

[picklebongo]

Capt Perrin took a long scheduled vacation and it had nothing to do with any "incident". He is a captain above reproach and if he had knowledge of a boat in distress, he would have stopped and helped. All this jumping to conculsions makes my blood boil. I was on this sailing and we heard nothing, saw nothing.

 

Just because you heard nothing and saw nothing doesn't mean nothing happened.

[Astro Flyer]

And what about the responsibilities of the boat in distress?

No mirror

No radio

No smoke

No radar reflector

No Sea Dye

If they can afford gas then they can also afford all the above except

possibly the radio.

Just waving hands and maybe a small flag??

After watching the video I would say nothing there to catch my eye,

indicate distress, warrant a change in course or stopping the ship.

Is there a different video available?

Perhaps deep pockets are at work here??

These are the 1st links in this chain of events that those on the fishing boat (if you can call a 10' boat one) had control over. If they notified others about their fishing trip, then there should have been a search much sooner by the local authorities to rescue them. Just another link in the chain of events leading up to this tragedy that was under the control of the fisherman. If they had done all of these things, they shouldn't have been stranded at sea when the Star Princess was transiting the area.

 

I'm not going to judge anyone until the investigation is completed but speculating about different scenarios is how investigators try to discover the truth...or at the very least a 'probably cause'...and ways to prevent such tragedies in the future. As tragic as this situation is, it would only add to the tragedy by not discovering the truth in order to prevent it from happening again.

[Pam in CA]

If it was my child or grand child I would not be letting them out on the boat UNLESS they had a few basic safety items. There is personal responsibility.

Of course you would. But these kids came from a very different society, a 3rd world country, where people do things the way they've been done for generations and don't think or plan the way we would. Americans do just as stupid things when in their countries. Heck, a couple of years ago, a woman did a jungle walk in Costa Rica in flip flops. What the hell was she thinking? She got bitten by a poisonous snake and anti-venom had to be flown in.

[frediver]

That kinda of proves my point.

It is not always someones else's fault.

[Mycruises62]

Right.. :rolleyes:

 

This is the Princess Chat Board, and a Princess ship[ is in the news...

 

If you don't want to discuss it don't. Don't go dish people who are interested in learning more about what happened that day on the Star.

 

Well said. I think the captain is in a lot of trouble. and should be

[H82seaUgo]

well, it looks like princess is assuming guilt.

 

http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na1230

 

 

 

 

 

:(

[AKman2495]

What if one of those you men was your child or grandchild and it could have been prevented?

 

What if the whole thing never happened? What if the people saw the wrong boat-or perhaps no boat at all! Why do we assume the birders are telling the truth? Perhaps they did see something, but were mistaken.

 

Remember, they were looking at a far distant object with high powered optics. But, they were also on a moving ship on a moving sea. It isn't like the alleged fishing boat would have appeared as a stationary thing nice and clear for a nice long period of time-it would have looked out of focus, bobbing up and down while the ship is moving at 20 knots away from the object. Good luck in being sure about anything you see under those conditions.

 

I mean what ifs can go on forever. What ifs are useless without facts. So far we have very few facts and a whole lot of allegations and a lot of jumping to conclusions.

 

People often see what their minds want to see. It is quite conceivable that they saw something and interpreted it as a boat in distress.

 

Finally, did they know that a boat had been missing? A guy waving a cloth could mean anything. How did they know it was a boat in distress?

 

These are thinks we all should think about.

[Liz54]

Princess Statement on Facebook:

 

Princess Cruises deeply regrets that two Panamanian men perished at sea after their boat became disabled in early March. Since we became aware of this incident, we have been investigating circumstances surrounding the claim that Star Princess failed to come to the aid of the disabled boat, after a crew member was alerted by passengers.

 

The preliminary results of our investigation have shown that there appeared to be a breakdown in communication in relaying the passenger's concern. Neither Captain Edward Perrin nor the officer of the watch were notified. Understandably, Captain Perrin is devastated that he is being accused of knowingly turning his back on people in distress. Had the Captain received this information, he would have had the opportunity to respond.

We all understand that it is our responsibility and also the law of the sea to provide assistance to any vessel in distress, and it is not an uncommon occurrence for our ships to be involved in a rescue at sea. In fact, we have done so more than 30 times in the last ten years. We deeply regret this incident and are continuing our investigation to fully understand the circumstances.

Looks like a terrible series of errors.

[cruiselovers20]

We, as Pam, Gerry and others, were on that Star Princess cruise. It is very hard to believe Capt Perrin didnt take any action if it was warranted. We were very impressed with the Capt - very professional, excellent rapport with his crew/team, excellent communications on an ongoing basis with the passengers, thinking ahead on how to tackle fog, rough weather, etc. We thought he was one of the best captains we ever sail with. We truly believe Capt Perrin would have gone out of his way to provide assistance if he thought it was a distress issue. This is so out of character for Capt Perrin ....we need to wait for all the facts before making any judgements that can negatively impact the career of one of the finest captains in the Princess fleet.

Re. his vacation - we learned way before we started the 2nd leg of the cruise in Valparaiso (March 3rd) that he was going on a well-deserved vacation after our cruise ended, along with other key crew members.

So, let's wait until all the facts are available.

[ONT-CA]

And what about the responsibilities of the boat in distress?

No mirror

No radio

No smoke

No radar reflector

No Sea Dye

If they can afford gas then they can also afford all the above except

possibly the radio.

Just waving hands and maybe a small flag??

After watching the video I would say nothing there to catch my eye,

indicate distress, warrant a change in course or stopping the ship.

Is there a different video available?

Perhaps deep pockets are at work here??

 

Totally agree we should not blame the ship's staff until such time as all the facts are know. But to now blame the victims? How typical today.

[Hunwolf]

These were just kids, 16 and 18 years old. They're invincible at this age. When was the last time your 16- or 18-year old made sure there were flares, reflective signs, blankets or whatever in the car when driving at night on a snowy road? Do any of you/us? This wasn't a commercial fishing boat with adults onboard, like you'd see on Deadliest Catch. It was a local boat that did fishing. We don't even know whether these kids took the boat out fishing or "joyriding."

 

Thank you. I came over here to see what the latest was and was shocked to see grown ups actually blaming the victims.

 

OTOH...people certainly should not rush to judge the captain as it's very possible that a communications breakdown led to the information not being relayed to him. Even in that case though...that is something that needs to be corrected. Here you apparently have someone (or more than one person) that actually caught a small vessel in distress and yet lives were lost. That cannot and should not just be "explained away".

[Pam in CA]

Well said. I think the captain is in a lot of trouble. and should be

Please see Princess' statement that Bill posted. This is exactly what I thought was the case. Is the Captain responsible? Yes, because he is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on the ship. Is he criminally responsible? Did he deliberately not respond to a call for help? No. You are right in that the Captain is in trouble but not to the extent you've implied he should be.

[Liz54]

I thought that Princess' statement was fair. They take responsibility by agrreing that the fishing boat was there and the passengers reported it. There was a problem in communication to the bridge and they are investigating that. Clearly the Captain takes responsibility and feels terrible. Bad things happen and human error occurs. I think Princess is taking ownership of their role.

 

As the mother of 3 young men who think they are invincible I find the story heartbreaking, but it is not the fault of Princess. As stated they have rescued 30 boaters in 10 years. In this case they made a human error. Lets see what their investigations reveal.

[Renmar]

In the court of the all mighty internet public opinion the Captain & Princess are already accused & tried. Now we only have to sentence them.

Come on people, wait and see what the FULL investigation will turn up before we react.

Theo

[johnmik1]

Well said. I think the captain is in a lot of trouble. and should be

 

I assume you are joking as your statement is totally absurd!

[caribill]

I thought that Princess' statement was fair. They take responsibility by agrreing that the fishing boat was there and the passengers reported it. There was a problem in communication to the bridge and they are investigating that.

 

The Princess statement did not say that the fishing boat was there.

 

It said a passenger tried to relay there was a boat but the message did not get to the bridge. Princess did not verify in this statement there was actually a boat.