Star Princess investigation

[Charles4515]

We met the 'Bird Watchers' on board during that cruise and talked to them on a couple of occasions. Whilst they seemed quite nice genuine people they were a little odd to say the least. We have a phrase here in the UK which I think fits 'typical anoraks' or 'lefty do-gooders! comes to mind. Nuff said!!

 

So what if they were a little odd or lefty do-gooders? Any passenger should report anything unusual they see in the ocean or on the ship. The expression that has come into vogue since 911, See Something, Say Something, I think all should follow.

[Starry Eyes]

The "odd","lefty do-gooders" may not post on this board...maybe they are on a birdwatching board, as is seems to be a passion. but, in their absence, maybe these quotes for a witness on that cruise is worth reading...the name, reportedly is Ricardo...Hope that helps.

When the bird watchers reported to the Captain CIrcle representative, who reported to the bridge, who sent two officers to investigate, the passengers believed the situation is under control and in safe hands. So much for future trust after all the issues Carnival Corporation has experienced this year. Although I liked the Captain he is also the one that left this very cruise early morning in San Francisco while the new Captain was more interested in getting pastries from the International Cafe rummaging behind the counter while many of us had hours of unsafe delay in getting off the ship. Seems to be a theme here "captain selection" and their priorities & responsiveness to the safety and well being of passengers and others". Who is responsible - the board of directors and it's chosen CEO. Time for a change, has a stock holder and customer, not an employee, I've let them know it. Has anyone else?

 

My wife and I were sitting waiting to see the future cruise consultant were our chairs were adjacent the Captain Circle desk. We heard the lady rundown and tell the captain circle guy, Ricardo, about the boat waving a white flag of sorts. Ricardo called someone and than two of the ships officers came to the desk and spoke to the lady. Ricardo has the facts and the coast guard should get the straight facts from him. We have been on more than one cruise with Ricardo and he seems like a straight and honorable guy. Carnival will cover their butts on this one. Time for Big Mickey to step aside and get someone to run the business full time. And the USA shouldn't let him go to Israel with billions untaxed like his father did! Sorry but two young men die while corporate carnival is covering themselves from the Costa, the burning ship and many cancelled nirovirsus laten cruises.

I 'll be Happy to testify!

 

Now THAT'S just funny. This is getting completely out of hand. I've read about 10ish articles on this incident and this one contradicts them all.

 

Suddenly, Betancourt has gone from 24 to 31. Also, while everyone may experience the stages of dehydration differently, nobody who is going to DIE from it a few hours later is up in a fishing boat signaling for help. Ocala.com is reporting the sighting as March 1, as opposed to March 10, like all the other stories.

 

Here's a question.....why hasn't the name of the "salesperson" on Princess (the one the birdwatchers alerted) been released by anyone? The birdwatchers were so thorough that they rushed to their cabin to get their coordinates and emailed them to the coast guard, they took pictures of the tiny boat, they flagged down an officer to report the issue; surely they had the presence of mind to get his name and write it down somewhere.

 

It would be nice if he could get a little of the public scrutiny that the captain is getting. No one even knows if the captain ever received the proper information, but the birdwatchers know what they told the crew member they talked to. I think it's time we hear from him!

[richard1s]

What a sad, tragic event.

 

And it is disturbing to read the shameful comments on this site suggesting that the individual rescued is trying to exploit the situation for a "payday", or that the people reporting the incident are "do-gooders" who should have done more. And, perhaps there was a lapse in protocol, but to vilify the Captain is simply mean-spirited. What is wrong with some of you people?

[freetocruise]

I have to question the actions of the birdwatchers. I know that they meant well but some of their actions expose their lack of knowledge which could have contributed to their ineffectiveness.

 

Like many passengers who have not served/worked on a cruise ship, they did not make the distinction between the Capt. Circle Rep. who is more a part of the "hotel" aspect of the cruise ship and not a part of the "ship's crew" who tend to the deck and engineering functions. Also, who exactly from the ship's "crew" came out on deck to observe? Was it a watch officer or part of the hotel staff? Do they know the difference? All people in uniform are not equal.

 

Also, what makes them think the U.S. Coast Guard were the right people to contact for a distressed vessel off South America? The U.S. Coast Guard doesn't normally have any presence in that part of the world unless it happens to be an icebreaker on its way to the Antartic. The correct move would have been to contact the Coast Guard of the nearest country. Often times the "contact us" email goes to the Public Information office.

 

While I'm sure they are very sincere, I don't think we should be taking them at 100% face value when they speak.

[Ethel5]

This whole incident smells like last week's fish!

 

There are too many discrepancies in each story that is told/published/reported. first it was a 10' boat; then a 25'; then a moderate sized boat. First the birders reported to a crew member; then it was an officer; now it's the Captain's Circle rep. First there were no other boats in sight, then there was a bunch of boats fishing. How did the two other men die and the survivor last 28 days without food and only a little rain water? Something doesn't make sense here and all of you who are condemning the Captain should really wait until all the FACTS are in and not just the rumors.

[Starry Eyes]

I have to question the actions of the birdwatchers. I know that they meant well but some of their actions expose their lack of knowledge which could have contributed to their ineffectiveness.

Like many passengers who have not served/worked on a cruise ship, they did not make the distinction between the Capt. Circle Rep. who is more a part of the "hotel" aspect of the cruise ship and not a part of the "ship's crew" who tend to the deck and engineering functions. Also, who exactly from the ship's "crew" came out on deck to observe? Was it a watch officer or part of the hotel staff? Do they know the difference? All people in uniform are not equal.

Also, what makes them think the U.S. Coast Guard were the right people to contact for a distressed vessel off South America? The correct move would have been to contact the Coast Guard of the nearest country. Often times the "contact us" email goes to the Public Information office.

when they speak.

 

Wait...doesn't every single crew member receive emergency training? EVERY one of them, including "hotel" aspect, which is most of the crew? Dancers have been muster leaders on some of my sailings, and I believe they are up to the task. Didn't the entertainer show more valor on Concordia than the Captain and his first and second officers? Are not passengers told to find the nearest crew member if somebody goes overboard...or does Princess say to find a non-hotel employee? Let us not sell the "hotel" employees short...if they do not act in the event of an emergency, tpas passengers are surely in jeopardy.

 

The birdwatchers found a crew member. While I do not know Ricardo, I suspect he is an intelligent, responsible man with excellent language skills. Evidently Richardo made the call and officers responded...Which officers and what did they do with the visual data. Valid questions, and I bet those questions are central Princess' investigation. If the "Officer of the Watch" and Captain were not informed, did those officer do their jobs properly?

 

yes the bird watcher's knew US coast guard was not the ideal back up contact. But, maybe they did not know which agency of which country in which language to contact with their meager on board resources...They were using the ship's ssssllllooooooooowwwwwww internet, not high speed surfing in their armchair at home. they tried. They tried hard.

[KenP]

One lesson I have learned here. If you have a significant severe safety concern like this, get on a house phone and dial 911. That way you will get real officers responding and the event will be logged. Not blaming the birdwatchers, they were trying to help, but if they had bypassed the hotel crew and got to the real ship crew things may have turned out differently. The hotel staff didn't get the message through, at this point, rather than send an email to the US coast guard, a 911 call on the house phone might have been more effective.

[Hunwolf]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving...

[Charles4515]

I have to question the actions of the birdwatchers. I know that they meant well but some of their actions expose their lack of knowledge which could have contributed to their ineffectiveness.

 

Like many passengers who have not served/worked on a cruise ship, they did not make the distinction between the Capt. Circle Rep. who is more a part of the "hotel" aspect of the cruise ship and not a part of the "ship's crew" who tend to the deck and engineering functions. Also, who exactly from the ship's "crew" came out on deck to observe? Was it a watch officer or part of the hotel staff? Do they know the difference? All people in uniform are not equal.

 

Also, what makes them think the U.S. Coast Guard were the right people to contact for a distressed vessel off South America? The U.S. Coast Guard doesn't normally have any presence in that part of the world unless it happens to be an icebreaker on its way to the Antartic. The correct move would have been to contact the Coast Guard of the nearest country. Often times the "contact us" email goes to the Public Information office.

 

While I'm sure they are very sincere, I don't think we should be taking them at 100% face value when they speak.

 

I don't question most of their actions because there is no reason most passengers would know the difference between a Captain Circle rep., the difference between the hotel aspect of the ship, and the operations aspect, and who in uniform are seaman and who in uniform are supervising that the restrooms are cleaned. Passengers on a cruise ship are in in environment that is alien to our normal life.

 

It was illogical to contact the US Coast Guard if they thought the US Coast Guard had jurisdiction or had stations there that could make a rescue, but if they had reached the US Coast Guard, the US Coast Guard could have contacted an authority that did have forces in the area. I believe that if they had successfully reached the US Coast Guard that the Coast Guard would have passed the info along. Unfortunately email is about the least effective means of any time sensitive communication. I would have chosen my cell phone. Also sending out a mass of tweets on twitter would have been more effective than any email and possibly got some authorities attention.

 

I take them at 100% face value that they saw something and tried to do something about it. I don't have any expectation that most of the cruise public would have done any better.

[Charles4515]

One lesson I have learned here. If you have a significant severe safety concern like this, get on a house phone and dial 911. That way you will get real officers responding and the event will be logged. Not blaming the birdwatchers, they were trying to help, but if they had bypassed the hotel crew and got to the real ship crew things may have turned out differently. The hotel staff didn't get the message through, at this point, rather than send an email to the US coast guard, a 911 call on the house phone might have been more effective.

 

Yes, that would have been better, dialing 911 on the house phone as far as the ship responding because there is also a time element. The cruise ship is moving and the boat would not be.

[bdjam]

Wait...doesn't every single crew member receive emergency training? EVERY one of them, including "hotel" aspect, which is most of the crew? Dancers have been muster leaders on some of my sailings, and I believe they are up to the task. Didn't the entertainer show more valor on Concordia than the Captain and his first and second officers? Are not passengers told to find the nearest crew member if somebody goes overboard...or does Princess say to find a non-hotel employee? Let us not sell the "hotel" employees short...if they do not act in the event of an emergency, tpas passengers are surely in jeopardy.

 

The birdwatchers found a crew member. While I do not know Ricardo, I suspect he is an intelligent, responsible man with excellent language skills. Evidently Richardo made the call and officers responded...Which officers and what did they do with the visual data. Valid questions, and I bet those questions are central Princess' investigation. If the "Officer of the Watch" and Captain were not informed, did those officer do their jobs properly?

 

yes the bird watcher's knew US coast guard was not the ideal back up contact. But, maybe they did not know which agency of which country in which language to contact with their meager on board resources...They were using the ship's ssssllllooooooooowwwwwww internet, not high speed surfing in their armchair at home. they tried. They tried hard.

You're entire argument is based on an "eyewitness" account posted on a cruise critic message board. With all the other discrepancies in the story, how do we know we should accept this version as truth?

[Starry Eyes]

You're entire argument is based on an "eyewitness" account posted on a cruise critic message board. With all the other discrepancies in the story, how do we know we should accept this version as truth?

 

Argument? I am not arguing. I do not thing people should attack the birdwatchers...they tried and tried again. I also think accusing the victim of nefarious activities is distasteful.

 

If nobody told the Captain, he could not act them...but if his crew mishandled an emergency, he does have a huge issue with which to deal...he is the authority and, to a significant extent, must account for his crew's actions.

 

I do throughly believe every employee on every cruiseship need to be well versed in emergency situations. sometimes there may be mild language barriers, and in that regard the Circle Rep would have been decent choice.

 

discrepencies occur when many news outlets and bloggers and message boards and such all get a story. Some of those may just the typos, like 1 vs 10. some may be miscommunications. Some are people looking for discrepancies:rolleyes:

[SUNSHINE COASTERS]

I really feel the need to add my voice in support of the integrity of Captain Ed Perrin. This is a supremely qualified officer, decent to a fault and I'm sure is suffering right now. Wish there was a way to let him know how highly he is thought of by many, many people who have comfortably and safely sailed under his guidance as both passengers and crew. This is a tragedy on so many different levels and nobody comes out of this one untouched.

What is truly sad is how our culture has become so driven to find "blame" (thanks legal system for nothing!). As with most such events it will be found to be a series of unfortunate events that lined up in a terribly sad way and a tragic event resulted. Ignorance and speculation get us nowhere folks. Lets shut this down and, as mature and responsible adults, wait for the proper investigation and findings.

[Mom33]

I really feel the need to add my voice in support of the integrity of Captain Ed Perrin. This is a supremely qualified officer, decent to a fault and I'm sure is suffering right now. Wish there was a way to let him know how highly he is thought of by many, many people who have comfortably and safely sailed under his guidance as both passengers and crew. This is a tragedy on so many different levels and nobody comes out of this one untouched.

What is truly sad is how our culture has become so driven to find "blame" (thanks legal system for nothing!). As with most such events it will be found to be a series of unfortunate events that lined up in a terribly sad way and a tragic event resulted. Ignorance and speculation get us nowhere folks. Lets shut this down and, as mature and responsible adults, wait for the proper investigation and findings.

 

Excellent post!

[RickEk]

Their flag state is Bermuda. :)

 

Yes, from what I know, all Princess ships are registered in Hamilton, Bermuda.

 

Embarkation - Sea Day1 012 by RickEk, on Flickr

[vkuehne]

What an awful, sad story. We spent 36 days on Star Princess a year-and-a-half ago with Ed Perrin at the helm, TA and then Antarctica.

 

While it's understandable that many here post messages in defense of the captain and feel for him (after all we're on a cruise board), my gut turns imagining what these poor dying Panamanian men must have felt seeing this huge white ship appear, and then watching it disappear for a long time. I doubt that they had ever been on a cruise ship, but knowing the incredible luxury we enjoy on these ships and then imagining them being left to die is just too much.

 

I also really feel for the birdwatchers - they clearly showed compassion and got active, and it's unfortunate that they are now left with the feeling that yes, they could maybe have done more had they known the right "protocol" on the ship for the rest of their lives. Any messages attacking them (or even mocking them)...or the Panamanians here are really hard to stomach.

 

With that said, some of my thoughts and observations:

 

- I loved Perrin as a captain. For his awesome announcements, for his friendly and informative talks. I also don't think he'd let someone out there to die had he known about it (however! you never really know. A few months ago none of us would have believed a cruise ship captain would take his ship close to shore to show off. Or abandon ship like a coward. Princess: what exactly is the protocol when a passenger contacts a crew member about a boat he thinks is in distress? How often does this happen?)

- nonetheless I also observed a darker side - lip service and him not being completely in control of things going on around the ship. The Antarctic cruise was quite special, lots of "environmental" precautions were taken (no food or smoking on open decks, for example). They were announced with lots of fanfare. It really seemed like lip service, because not a word was wasted on all the dirty fuel we were burning down there, and one night steaming through Antarctica this point was really driven home to me when another engine was turned on and we blasted out huge wads of thick black smoke into the pristine environment.

- him not being completely in control: I personally observed three times that crew was blatantly disobeying the environmental orders he had given himself/announced and talked about (smoking on deck by a bartender, a used cup that was in the same very visible place on an open deck in Antarctica...and I rediscovered it just as we arrived in Ushuaia...having crossed Drake Passage, but most disturbingly an alcohol-selling-cart right outside on deck complete with plastic cups and all). Yes, these are minor things compared to the story at hand, and I basically just came away happy that big ships (supposedly) will be banned down there. But they did point to something being wrong with the chain of command on the ship (because, you now, if the captain announces: no food and drinks outside for these 4 days...and then his own crew pushes carts around selling booze...something is wrong).

 

Since we will probably never know for sure exactly where the communication problem happened in this case, all we can really do is speculate. I don't understand people urging to wait for "proper investigations and findings". Who is going to do this "proper investigation"? The Bermudas??? It'll be Princess doing their own investigation, and all we'll get to hear is what makes them appear in the best of lights. Unless we keep asking. By now they for sure know exactly who was notified on the ship and where the message got lost (if it did)...but instead of telling us a detailed timeline of events and positions of the people that were involved, they put out this carefully worded statement.

 

Yes, it's sad, but in the end, we - the customers of cruise lines - are the "judge and jury"...because these lines ultimately only bow to our demands.

 

All being said, this was a failure by a Princess cruise ship to rescue three poor souls floating at sea - it doesnt really matter if ultimately a cruise consultant, third officer or captain takes the personal blame - the systems on the ship obviously didnt work. I really hope Princess does the right thing and comes out clean, makes sure the Panamanian survivor never has to work another day in his life, the birdwatchers are getting some special treatment as the caring compassionate people they showed to be, and all routines on the ships are checked and double checked so this never happens again.

[kwahl1]

OMG! That's the cruise I was on. Never heard anything about it on the cruise nor did I see anything.

 

 

Hey Neighbor, me again. OMG I heard the Star and didn't learn until tonight, "that was our cruise". Small world.

[rtlk]

Regardless if the passengers reported it to a non crew officer, the folks on the bridge should

have been using their good eyes and binoculars to observe what is happening in the area around the ship. THEY SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT WHAT THE PASSENGERS SAW AND TAKEN ACTION. LIKELY THE SHIP WAS BEHIND SCHEDULE AND DIDN'T WANT TO DELAY TO CHECK OUT THIS FISHING BOAT, THIS INCOMPETENCE LED TO THE DEATH OF TWO PEOPLE. The press should be all over this company and crew. THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS HAVE SHOWN A COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR SAFETY.

 

AS A PASSENGER WITH 15+ CRUISES ON PRINCESS I THINK ITS TIME WE SET SAIL ON THIS SINKING SHIP BEFORE WE GO DOWN WITH IT.....

[caribill]

Regardless if the passengers reported it to a non crew officer, the folks on the bridge should

have been using their good eyes and binoculars to observe what is happening in the area around the ship. THEY SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT WHAT THE PASSENGERS SAW AND TAKEN ACTION.

 

Per the passengers that saw the boat they say was in distress, it was at a distance not in the path that the ship was sailing.

 

The observers on the bridge are looking at the path the ship will take and a reasonable distance on each side of the path. They are not looking far to the left or right and should not be expected to see unusual things far from the path of the ship.

[moniquet]

Regardless if the passengers reported it to a non crew officer, the folks on the bridge should

have been using their good eyes and binoculars to observe what is happening in the area around the ship. THEY SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT WHAT THE PASSENGERS SAW AND TAKEN ACTION. LIKELY THE SHIP WAS BEHIND SCHEDULE AND DIDN'T WANT TO DELAY TO CHECK OUT THIS FISHING BOAT, THIS INCOMPETENCE LED TO THE DEATH OF TWO PEOPLE. The press should be all over this company and crew. THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS HAVE SHOWN A COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR SAFETY.

 

 

Yes, I am amazed at the excuses for Princess coming up on this thread, even to the point of actually blaming the people who saw and reported it:(

[jollyjones]

Yes, from what I know, all Princess ships are registered in Hamilton, Bermuda.

 

Embarkation - Sea Day1 012 by RickEk, on Flickr

 

Yes, that's one reason that I feel right at home on Princess!

[FLACRUISER99]

Yes, I am amazed at the excuses for Princess coming up on this thread, even to the point of actually blaming the people who saw and reported it:(

 

And blaming folks that are not even responsible.

[Charles4515]

Regardless if the passengers reported it to a non crew officer, the folks on the bridge should

have been using their good eyes and binoculars to observe what is happening in the area around the ship. THEY SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT WHAT THE PASSENGERS SAW AND TAKEN ACTION. LIKELY THE SHIP WAS BEHIND SCHEDULE AND DIDN'T WANT TO DELAY TO CHECK OUT THIS FISHING BOAT, THIS INCOMPETENCE LED TO THE DEATH OF TWO PEOPLE. The press should be all over this company and crew. THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS HAVE SHOWN A COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR SAFETY.

 

AS A PASSENGER WITH 15+ CRUISES ON PRINCESS I THINK ITS TIME WE SET SAIL ON THIS SINKING SHIP BEFORE WE GO DOWN WITH IT.....

 

They use their binoculars to see what is happening ahead of the ship on the ships route. The passengers were birdwatching. Two different agendas. It is easy to see how the birdwatchers could see something that the watchmen did not. An analogy is when I am driving. I am paying attention to the road ahead. My passenger sees things on the side. I never saw what they saw and if they mention it we are often too far past for me to see waht they saw.

 

As far as your idea that you picked up from the organized campaign that the ship was behind schedule and did not want to delay......which borders on defamation.......where is your proof? Having been on 41 cruises I don't think that is likely. Unless it is proved, backed by facts, I have faith that was not what happened.

[Beopthtuh]

seems folks have nothing better to do than princess bashing on this thread theres accidents happeing all over the world and all you seem to do is pick on a single instance of negitivity ,or is it just some americans bashing a honourable british captain ,seems c c is going down the drain no longer worth being on

[iain48]

We met the 'Bird Watchers' on board during that cruise and talked to them on a couple of occasions. Whilst they seemed quite nice genuine people they were a little odd to say the least. We have a phrase here in the UK which I think fits 'typical anoraks' or 'lefty do-gooders! comes to mind. Nuff said!!

I don't know about anoraks but I certainly know several people whose politics are left of centre who do a lot of good. Lifeboatmen, firemen, health workers, and many more. I think the term lefty do gooder should not be used as criticism.