Star Princess investigation

[FLACRUISER99]

Why do some assume they know a Captain after a few words of chit-chat:D

 

Aren't you assuming they don't know the Captain? That's OK right!

[Charles4515]

I believe that this was the point of my post. Folks have been saying that the lookouts should have seen the boat in question just because they were higher up.

 

And btw, most bridge tours are still held while the ship is underway. All bridge tours that I've taken have been at sea.

 

The first two which were a while ago were at sea. The last one a couple of years ago was not and I recall they said they were no longer doing them at sea but maybe that was just that ship or that cruise line. The last one was not Princess, I think it was HAL. Been on so many cruises it starts to blend together. I have done one on Princess. Also if folks cruise on Royal Caribbean they have a peek a boo bridge on some ships where you can observe the bridge from the outside.

[Arwen]

There is an orchestrated lynch mob being organized against the Captain on the social net.

 

Agree. But there are the typical "lynch mob" comments on most of the news websites as well. What have we come to, where we call someone guilty without due process.

 

Whatever anyone feels about the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case, I found it completely beyond disgusting that the Lynch Mob was in full bloom on the internet and on T.V. Due process, due process, due process....is the American standard of law.

 

And in this case, having done 12 cruises and actually witnessing an attempted rescue of two stranded fisherman off the Baja coast five years ago, I do not believe this Captain ignored and disobeyed Maritime Law. Besides the point that it is required for the nearest ship to go to a rescue, the PR is also huge for the cruise lines.

 

The facts will come out with the investigation and until then the Captain is innocent. Period.

[Shogun]

Hi All

quote from newpaper

"Two birdwatchers on the deck of the luxury cruise ship spotted the stricken men with a long-range telescope and saw one of them waving a red cloth to attract their attention.

Captain Edward Perrin is said to have been at the helm of the ship when it is claimed to have been near the stranded fishing boat"

 

So they saw them through a long range telescope which puts the cruise ship near the fishing boat, do the folks that write this stuff read what they write.

 

The ship The Carnival Star Princess

 

yours Shogun

 

[Charles4515]

Agree. But there are the typical "lynch mob" comments on most of the news websites as well. What have we come to, where we call someone guilty without due process.

 

Whatever anyone feels about the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case, I found it completely beyond disgusting that the Lynch Mob was in full bloom on the internet and on T.V. Due process, due process, due process....is the American standard of law.

 

And in this case, having done 12 cruises and actually witnessing an attempted rescue of two stranded fisherman off the Baja coast five years ago, I do not believe this Captain ignored and disobeyed Maritime Law. Besides the point that it is required for the nearest ship to go to a rescue, the PR is also huge for the cruise lines.

 

The facts will come out with the investigation and until then the Captain is innocent. Period.

 

When I cruise, over 40 cruises, I make it a point to chat with officers, go to talks they sometimes give, and they always seemed to shine when the subject of rescues at sea comes up. I always felt it was not just PR, although it is good PR, that they were not just complying with maritime law. That is why until proven otherwise by facts I have faith a Princess Captain would not have intentionally passed by those fisherman.

[moniquet]

When I cruise, over 40 cruises, I make it a point to chat with officers, go to talks they sometimes give, and they always seemed to shine when the subject of rescues at sea comes up. I always felt it was not just PR, although it is good PR, that they were not just complying with maritime law. That is why until proven otherwise by facts I have faith a Princess Captain would not have intentionally passed by those fisherman.

 

Impossible to say...you are only seeing/hearing their public face. You really don't know your own neighbours these days let alone people paid to put on a PR show.

[Charles4515]

Hi All

quote from newpaper

"Two birdwatchers on the deck of the luxury cruise ship spotted the stricken men with a long-range telescope and saw one of them waving a red cloth to attract their attention.

Captain Edward Perrin is said to have been at the helm of the ship when it is claimed to have been near the stranded fishing boat"

 

So they saw them through a long range telescope which puts the cruise ship near the fishing boat, do the folks that write this stuff read what they write.

 

The ship The Carnival Star Princess

 

yours Shogun

 

 

Much of media these days is lazy. Most just do rewrites and don't check facts. They are picking this stuff up from a campaign run by several people who have come to hate the cruise industry so much that they have lost objectivity. The cruise industry does not have clean hands, there are issues, problems, but the campaign against Captain Perrin is disgraceful. One of these campaigners is a lawyer who frequently sues cruise lines. He should understand innocent until proven guilty.

[Charles4515]

Impossible to say...you are only seeing/hearing their public face. You really don't know your own neighbours these days let alone people paid to put on a PR show.

 

I know people. Been on a lot of cruises. Not a newby. So I trust what I have observed and my intuition. I also believe in innocent until proven guilty.

[BugsyCruiser]

I know people. Been on a lot of cruises. Not a newby. So I trust what I have observed and my intuition. I also believe in innocent until proven guilty.

 

Charles I'm with you... Captain Perrin is innocent till proven guilty. But wouldn't you agree with me that no matter how many times you, others, or I say it that we still will have plenty who will say that the Captain should fry including the lawyer you mentioned? I only say this because as you saw from one of my earlier posts I tried to state that on Princess's Facebook page and it didn't matter... I was immediately dismissed as being as some kind of "cheerleader" for Princess

[pinkfloyd4]

Lets not blame the Captain or Officer of the Watch until we know how far up the chain of command the message got ,after it was reported to the first crew member.

If it stopped before reaching the senior officer,then you can point fingers

Till the give the Captain a break.

 

Dave

[sarafinadh]

Here is how this is going to go down in a maritime court.

 

The Captain is at fault. The deal with being the Captain is that you are ALWAYS at fault for anything that goes wrong on your boat.

 

The 26' panga was 120 miles off shore, where it had no business being. This was the result of the inoperable motor.

 

The Star was in the vicinity.

 

The Star carried on it a passenger who took a picture, with a powerful camera, of a panga with a red (distress) flag/signal/tshirt clearly visible. She notified a crew member.

 

The Star did not divert to pick up the drifting fishermen.

 

Two of the three of them died.

 

Somewhere between the passenger reporting what she had sighted, and the ship responding, someone dropped the ball. Two souls were lost as a result of that.

 

It is entirely possible that the notice never reached the Captain. Or that he made contact by radio with some other boat that did have business in the area and waved the Star off.

 

This matter not a bit.

 

As the Captain he is legally and morally responsible for what goes on aboard his vessel. He did not render aid to the stranded vessel.

 

He feels terrible, I am sure. And I would be astounded to find that he made a decision to abandon the boys to their fate. But it just doesn't matter.

 

There may be others who are more directly to blame, but he remains responsible. That's just the way it goes on a boat.

[Lynniepoo]

I had heard that the Captain noted in the log that they had seen the Panga but the people were "just waving hi." Now, this came from NPR, so its entirely possible that they added that bit themselves, but if it is true it certainly casts a different light on things.

 

Can't people go back to disliking airlines? So much more just cause! ;)

[Mom33]

Here is how this is going to go down in a maritime court.

 

The Captain is at fault. The deal with being the Captain is that you are ALWAYS at fault for anything that goes wrong on your boat.

The 26' panga was 120 miles off shore, where it had no business being. This was the result of the inoperable motor.

 

The Star was in the vicinity.

 

The Star carried on it a passenger who took a picture, with a powerful camera, of a panga with a red (distress) flag/signal/tshirt clearly visible. She notified a crew member.

 

The Star did not divert to pick up the drifting fishermen.

 

Two of the three of them died.

 

Somewhere between the passenger reporting what she had sighted, and the ship responding, someone dropped the ball. Two souls were lost as a result of that.

 

It is entirely possible that the notice never reached the Captain. Or that he made contact by radio with some other boat that did have business in the area and waved the Star off.

 

This matter not a bit.

 

As the Captain he is legally and morally responsible for what goes on aboard his vessel. He did not render aid to the stranded vessel.

 

He feels terrible, I am sure. And I would be astounded to find that he made a decision to abandon the boys to their fate. But it just doesn't matter.

 

There may be others who are more directly to blame, but he remains responsible. That's just the way it goes on a boat.

 

The owner of the fishing boat is responsible for the welfare of those who ride in his boat as well.

[voyageur9]

The Bermuda Government has launched an investigation into whether or not the Star Princess cruise ship failed in its duty to assist a fishing boat in distress.

 

Derrick Burgess, Deputy Premier of Bermuda and Minister of Transport, said today (Fri. Mar 20) : “As the duty to assist ships, etc, in distress is explicitly defined in the Merchant Shipping Act 2002 including the failure to do so as an offence, we have met with our counsel from the Attorney General Chambers and fully apprised him of the situation. We have also met with the Bermuda Police Service and they have confirmed their commitment to assist as required.

 

“The gravity of the situation requires Bermuda to take appropriate steps to ensure “due diligence” is exercised in determining the legitimacy of the allegations. Therefore the Department of Maritime Administration has determined that it is the best interest of all concerned to commence its independent investigation.”

 

The Full Princess Cruises statement

“Princess Cruises deeply regrets that two Panamanian men perished at sea after their boat became disabled in early March. Since we became aware of this incident, we have been investigating circumstances surrounding the claim that Star Princess failed to come to the aid of the disabled boat, after a crew member was alerted by passengers.

 

The preliminary results of our investigation have shown that there appeared to be a breakdown in communication in relaying the passenger's concern. Neither Captain Edward Perrin nor the officer of the watch were notified.

Understandably, Captain Perrin is devastated that he is being accused of knowingly turning his back on people in distress. Had the Captain received this information, he would have had the opportunity to respond.

 

We all understand that it is our responsibility and also the law of the sea to provide assistance to any vessel in distress, and it is not an uncommon occurrence for our ships to be involved in a rescue at sea. In fact, we have done so more than 30 times in the last ten years.

 

We deeply regret this incident and are continuing our investigation to fully understand the circumstances.”

 

Full statement from Minister Derrick Burgess

 

 

Mr. Speaker,

 

On Wednesday afternoon April 17th 2012 the Department of Maritime Administration received information of an alleged incident involving the Bermuda registered cruise ship “Star Princess” on or about March 10th, 2012.

 

Mr. Speaker,

 

It is alleged a fishing vessel was observed by bird watchers onboard the ship to possibly be in trouble (they had the benefit of high power optics and thought they could see people onboard waving for help). They notified the bridge team on ship, who may have downplayed what was seen. Approximately two weeks later around March 24th it has been reported that the fishing vessel was in trouble and only 1 of the 3 crew was rescued.

 

Following receipt of the above information DMA contacted the operators of Star Princess (Princess Cruises) to inquire about the alleged incident. Princess initial reply was that they have just been informed about an incident that may have involved their ship over a month ago and they are investigating the matter. We have since received information from a Senior Princess official who is their lead and primary contact on the investigation, and he provided the following statement:

 

Quote:

 

We are aware of these apparent allegations and our company council and our attorneys are conducting an internal investigation to find out the facts in this case. We have a press statement, which I will ask be forwarded to you. Obviously we will keep you in the loop as we learn more.

 

Unquote

 

Mr. Speaker,

 

As the “Duty to assist ships, etc. in distress” is explicitly defined in the Merchant Shipping Act 2002 including the failure to do so as an offence, we have met with our counsel from the Attorney General Chambers and fully apprised him of the situation. We have also met with the Bermuda Police Service and they have confirmed their commitment to assist as required.

 

Mr. Speaker,

 

The gravity of this allegation requires Bermuda to take the appropriate steps to ensure “due diligence” is exercised in determining the legitimacy of the allegations. Therefore the Department of Maritime Administration has determined that it is the best interest of all concerned to commence its independent investigation.

 

Mr. Speaker,

 

We will keep this Honorable House and members fully apprised on this very important matter and provide additional information as it becomes available.

 

 

 

Thank you, Mr. Speaker,

[Hunwolf]

The owner of the fishing boat is responsible for the welfare of those who ride in his boat as well.

 

Accurate but largely irrelevant to the larger issue here.

[Mom33]

Accurate but largely irrelevant to the larger issue here.

 

It isn't at all irrelevant. The actions of the fishing boat started this tragedy.

[Boatdrill]

Impossible to say...you are only seeing/hearing their public face. You really don't know your own neighbours these days let alone people paid to put on a PR show.

 

 

You're correct. Licensed captains of immense sea-going vessels are simply public relations people in disguise. :rolleyes:

[Hunwolf]

It isn't at all irrelevant. The actions of the fishing boat started this tragedy.

 

Again...nobody is arguing that "mistakes were/were not made" on that end.

 

However...that doesn't absolve anyone on the other end from potential responsibility depending on what a review may show.

 

A disaster can often be averted at more than one point along the way...

[voyageur9]

Mom33

Even if demented person with a death-wish paddled a leaky canoe into the middle of the ocean without any water and then continued to behave with utter foolishness increasing risk to him/herself, it would not reduce the legal obligation of any passing ship's captain to render all assistance.

 

Blaming the fishermen (and they may be responsible entirely for their predicament) makes no difference -- repeat no difference -- to whether or not Capt Perrin is accountable for the action/inaction/failings/performance of his officers and crew.

[Loucat]

I think their only purpose is to look ahead to avoid collision. They would not be normally looking at boats that are not at risk of collision.

 

I have been on a several of bridge tours. Years ago even one with the ship moving when they allowed it, I think now all tours are only in port, and they had one lookout on each side of the bridge looking ahead with binoculars. Not on a tripod either. Hand held.

 

Your having been on many bridge tours, as have we, they make it a point to let passengers know the capability of their radar systems. We have been on a tour in a moving ship and you could clearly see other ships in the area.

If they relied on their "watchers" in a fog to avoid collision, or at night, we would have alot more accidents. All on the bridge are looking out as the view as you know is so expansive.

[Loonbeam]

Its important to note that the radar bubble, as it were, is oriented forward and aft and has a little less range and visibility on the sides. That said, its entirely possible the fishing boat blipped on the radar, but if the radar operator had not been alerted to look for it, it would not have been a matter of concern or review unless it was heading at speed towards the ship or into its path.

 

Your having been on many bridge tours, as have we, they make it a point to let passengers know the capability of their radar systems. We have been on a tour in a moving ship and you could clearly see other ships in the area.

If they relied on their "watchers" in a fog to avoid collision, or at night, we would have alot more accidents. All on the bridge are looking out as the view as you know is so expansive.

[sarafinadh]

The owner of the fishing boat is responsible for the welfare of those who ride in his boat as well.

Yes, he is. But that is not the topic of this thread and has no weight in the issue facing the Captain of the Star.

[Mom33]

Mom33

Even if demented person with a death-wish paddled a leaky canoe into the middle of the ocean without any water and then continued to behave with utter foolishness increasing risk to him/herself, it would not reduce the legal obligation of any passing ship's captain to render all assistance.

 

Blaming the fishermen (and they may be responsible entirely for their predicament) makes no difference -- repeat no difference -- to whether or not Capt Perrin is accountable for the action/inaction/failings/performance of his officers and crew.

 

I am aware of the maritime laws that Capt. Perrin faces if the investigation finds that his ship failed to rescue a boat in need of help. But you see, the investigation has not been completed, except in the minds of those who want the results to be their way.

[voyageur9]

I am aware of the maritime laws that Capt. Perrin faces if the investigation finds that his ship failed to rescue a boat in need of help. But you see, the investigation has not been completed, except in the minds of those who want the results to be their way.

 

.... and we are entirely like-minded about that. Certainly, I've come to no conclusions. Culpability may hinge on whether the "breakdown in communication in relaying the passenger's concern" will prove exculpatory or damaging to Captain Perrin but your are quite right, it's too early to judge.

 

In any event, enjoy your cruise

[richard1s]

Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, the Captain's career is damaged and it is only a question of degree. If the comment is accurate and he truly is devastated; I feel for him since it is a stigma that will always tarnish his career, no matter how great it was.