Star Princess investigation

[negc]

Open eyes and the light of day is what is needed to assure both the public and to make sure these floating cash machines do the right and safe thing all the time.

 

 

Let us all keep the light on this until reasonable "third parties" have reached a conclusion, and with luck the Comadore of the fleet has some retraining/refreasher class' for the bridge crew, ASAP.!!!

 

Of course the conclusion reached by your "reasonable third parties" might be that the bridge crew doesn't need a retraining/refresher class. You really should allow for that possibility if you really want to be objective about this situation. Only after that investigation is completed are we likely to find out who, if anyone, was at fault.

[voyageur9]

Efforts to blame the (two-now-dead) Panamanian fishermen for failing to properly stock their small boat, and/or the Panamanian authorities for failing to conduct a better search, or the bird-watching passengers for failing to raise more of a fuss or make a greater follow-through (although it boggles the mind that some of you are trying to fault them) are amusing but irrelevant and quite diversionary.

 

The Captain is responsible for the ship and his crew.

 

This isn't the Captain not knowing about a crewmember failing to clean a toilet.

 

Capt Perrin will need to explain if there wasn't an unambiguous set of orders requiring that he (or the officer of the watch) be immediately informed of any and all issues involving life and death (person believed overboard, vessel in distress etc etc.) or the safety of the ship. If those orders existed and weren't followed, then claiming ignorance is no defence. Blaming underlings for failing to follow orders is hardly the mark of an honourable officer nor a reputable company. If the orders didn't exist then Capt. Perrin and Princess are in deeper (hot) water.

 

The obligation is render assistance to vessel in distress at sea is not optional and if some Princess employee/crewmember failed to pass the information up the chain of command or independently made a decision that it wasn't worth reporting, then Capt. Perrin is still on the hook. That's what command responsibility and accountability are all about.

 

In this instance, there seems to be no question that a life-threatening situation was reported to Princess crew members on board the Star in a timely fashion with the appropriate amount of urgency and evidence. This wasn't idle gossip or rumour-mongering.

 

Capt Perrin will -- no doubt -- be called to account to explain why he and his officers failed to act as required under maritime law. That he is 'devastated' as claimed by Princess public relations people is understandable. Not only are two people dead but his command competence is in question, no matter how much he has charmed and impressed passengers previously.

[rtlk]

Voyageur9 is right on.... The Captian is the responsible party and should and must take that responsiblity, regardless of how much the ladies on this posting think he his charming at the Captains cocktail parties.

Ask the passangers on Carnival's Concordia how charming that Captain was before his irresponsible and cowardly actions Killed over 30. Either way this is yet another black mark on Carnival...

[FLACRUISER99]

Boy I'm really tired of trial by the INTERNET folks who think with the guilty until proved Innocent mentality!

[moniquet]

Mistakes were made, lessons will be learnt...how often do we hear this rubbish nowadays. I don't understand why some are defending the indefensible.

[cruisemom42]

Boy I'm really tired of trial by the INTERNET folks who think with the guilty until proved Innocent mentality!

 

Yes, because surely in the history of the world there was never, ever a lynch mob mentality before the days of the Internet...

[moniquet]

In the British newspaper...breakdown in communications....right:rolleyes:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133102/Carnival-Star-Princess-ignored-passenger-pleas-help-stranded-fishing-boat.html

[voyageur9]

No lynch mob mentality at all in what I posted.

 

I entirely agree that Capt. Perrin is innocent. That he should be held accountable for his actions and/or his failure to act and/or the failure of the crew he commands to inform him is hardly a lynch mob mentality. I suspect Capt Perrin -- if he is one-tenth the man so effusively described by some posters -- will want to answer what seem to be fairly serious questions about his performance.

 

Star Princess under his command passed close by small fishing boat nearly 200 kilometres from shore. No other boats were in the vicinity. At least one member of his crew was informed -- in a timely, detailed fashion with appropriate urgency -- that those aboard the small boat appeared to be signalling and might be in distress.

 

In broad daylight and calm seas, the Star Princess sailed on. Two people subsequent died.

 

At this stage, Capt Perrin is innocent.

So, at this stage, is Capt. Schettino, of the Costa Concordia.

 

While there are many, many differences, both were captains of modern, well-equipped ships in non-threatening situations that ended with evidently unnecessary deaths. In both cases, the performanace of the captains deserves to be examined.

 

There may be criminal, professional and/or disciplinary issues to be examined and judge by the appropriate tribunals

[richard1s]

No lynch mob mentality at all in what I posted.

 

I entirely agree that Capt. Perrin is innocent. That he should be held accountable for his actions and/or his failure to act and/or the failure of the crew he commands to inform him is hardly a lynch mob mentality. I suspect Capt Perrin -- if he is one-tenth the man so effusively described by some posters -- will want to answer what seem to be fairly serious questions about his performance.

 

Well written and well said; one of the few comments on this entire thread that makes any real sense.

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

Pity folks do not post the facts, or at least provide reference,

 

eg

 

UK news papers report that other passengers confirm other fishing boats were seen,

 

Princess states no bridge officer was informed,

 

Now I understand the way some folks are thinking so following that it must be the Doctors fault as he has a duty to save life, OK knowone told him two folks were dying , but that is not important.

 

yours Shogun

[repo-cruiser]

Voyageur9 is right on.... The Captian is the responsible party and should and must take that responsiblity, regardless of how much the ladies on this posting think he his charming at the Captains cocktail parties.

 

Ask the passangers on Carnival's Concordia how charming that Captain was before his irresponsible and cowardly actions Killed over 30. Either way this is yet another black mark on Carnival...

Just trying to keep this thread factual, it was the COSTA Concordia not Carnival Concordia, unless of course you call this ship the Carnival Star, rather than the Star Princess

[WeBeGone]

How can Captain Perrin be responsible if no one ever told him?

[richard1s]

How can Captain Perrin be responsible if no one ever told him?

 

Because in naval customs and tradition, the Captain is responsible for everything that happens on his or her ship; even if for some reason they are not onboard, it is still their responsibility. Whether the Captain was advised or not is immaterial.

[Mom33]

Efforts to blame the (two-now-dead) Panamanian fishermen for failing to properly stock their small boat, and/or the Panamanian authorities for failing to conduct a better search, or the bird-watching passengers for failing to raise more of a fuss or make a greater follow-through (although it boggles the mind that some of you are trying to fault them) are amusing but irrelevant and quite diversionary.

 

There is nothing amusing in my post, nothing irrelevant in my post, and it was not written for diversionary purposes. It is the sad truth.

[rtlk]

just trying to keep this thread factual, it was the costa concordia not carnival concordia, unless of course you call this ship the carnival star, rather than the star princess

 

its all cranival and carnival is the owner, i'm sure the shareholders are rather upset that all these things seem to be comming up, carnival needs to control it children and retrain them so these things don't happen again.

 

These deaths are not nitpicky, the are real and should not have happend.....

[Pam in CA]

How can Captain Perrin be responsible if no one ever told him?

Because, right or wrong, the Captain is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on the ship. That goes for someone choking on a bone, slipping and falling on a wet deck, or a harbor pilot giving mis-direction which causes the ship to strike a sand bar (it's happened.) It doesn't matter whether there was a failure to communicate or if the Captain had anything to do with it, he will assume the blame and most likely, his career is in jeopardy and probably ruined. :(

[Boatdrill]

I wouldnt even know who to contact to insure that they listened to me if I saw something like that.

 

Call the emergency number on the phone in your room, and tell them what you saw.

[frediver]

It might not be his fault but it is his responsibility.

On board ship it all roll's uphill !

A Captain is responsible to have the right people in the right positions under his command and by default is responsible for both the good and bad decisions they

make.

[Pam in CA]

Call the emergency number on the phone in your room, and tell them what you saw.

And, you should be calm, clear and concise, giving as much detail as you can as quickly as you can. If you're too general or over-excited, you won't be taken as seriously. Before calling, take a few seconds to think about what you'll say and how to present the facts and urgency. You'll be taken far more seriously and the message will be more clearly conveyed/repeated to the person(s) in charge.

[Boatdrill]

We the crusing public can not let this pass, with more than a white wash from the cruise operator. This seems to involve several pasasangers reporting to ship's officers about a vessel in distress and an ineffective ships leadership doing nothing.

 

Where did it say that the passengers talked to an OFFICER ? :confused:

[Loucat]

I have been on ships where the captain slowed the ship as something was seen from the bridge and they wanted to stop and help if needed. This happenened several times from the Western Caribbean to Florida route. It always turned out what they saw was not someone needing helped, but could this ship at least not slow down to look?

[worldspan]

Saw the whole thing tonight (Saturday) on ABC World News. The woman from Oregon who saw and reported the whole thing comes across as quite mature and sincere.

 

I think Princess has a major problem on its hand!

 

Worldspan

131 cruises strong

[DugboatLarry]

from all you posters? We will just wait until the results are confirmed. Doesn't seem too difficult, unless the debate club is make in session with the what ifs, and I think comments. Just another thread that is too long.

[Boatdrill]

I have no clue who the bird watchers went to, one would assume the pursers desk? But, they said they spoke with an officer, and that person felt it wasn't important enough to pass that information along to the bridge?

 

And this is how stories get changed...

 

The articles I read said that the birders contacted "a sales rep" onboard who came out on deck and looked through their binoculars/scopes/whatever and saw the boat.

 

Another report said they spoke to someone at the purser's desk who called the bridge immediately.

 

And yet another poster on this thread said the passengers spoke to "ship's officers".

 

:rolleyes:

[Pam in CA]

Saw the whole thing tonight (Saturday) on ABC World News. The woman from Oregon who saw and reported the whole thing comes across as quite mature and sincere.

Absolutely. But we don't know what she or the others were like when they were reporting what they saw. If they weren't calm, clear and concise, as they are now that they've had time to think about it, it's possible that the message transmitted to the bridge wasn't clear or complete. I'm not saying they weren't but from their previous interviews, it's my impression that they were upset and anxious, and might not have been very clear. We don't know and this is something that will hopefully come out in the investigation, i.e., what was said and how it was communicated.