Alcohol now being destroyed

[Aus Traveller]

Well, I did ask several DR staff on our recent cruise about the sommelier job and what he/she actually did, and was met with mostly smirks. I suppose the F&B manager will lead the wine tasting from now on (LOL).

Whoever it is, I think they would do a better job than the sommelier on the Grand Princess. We were on board for four b2b cruises and we were told that the first of these cruises, was the sommelier's first on that ship. He took well over an hour to do the wine tasting and, unfortunately because of his heavy accent, a lot of what he said wasn't understood by many in the room. Over the next three cruises, he managed to cut back the time to 50 minutes or so. :)

 

In the past we have been to wine tastings that were entertaining and fun.

[GHDPeter]

Up until now, they have rarely if ever actually done this, which is kind of the point of the thread, so they've never really needed the facilities to do so (and it would not be a stretch to therefore assume that one factor in the lack of prior enforcement would be the lack of facilities).

 

All of the Princess and P & O ships operating out of Australia have always collected spirits purchased ashore (Duty Free) and held it until the last night of the cruise where it has been delivered to passengers, so the systems and facilities are available and in place for this.

 

Slightly off topic, I recently completed a section of P&O UK Aurora world cruise. The policy onboard was that you could bring any wine or spirit onboard at any port. You could also purchase Duty Free liq onboard for consumption on the cruise.

[caribill]

For only the 8 millionth time, the prices are not exorbitant. Unless they're giving wine away where you live. The prices on Princess are comparable, if not in many cases below, the standard mark-up charged in most restaurants. And I'm not even in a high-cost-living city. But on visits back home to DC, I've paid far more for a middling Kendall-Jackson or a bottom-tier C-du-Pape than Princess charges.

 

The land restaurants are marking the price up from the wholesale price of bottles that have all the taxes included.

 

Princess is marking the price up from the wholesale price of bottles that do not have all the land taxes.

[paul929207]

There are lots of complaints on this thread about the new Princess Alcohol Policy and its implementation. However, there are only about 600 posts here, so probably less individual posters than that. 600 is a tiny percentage of the Princess passengers. What about all those passengers that don't us Cruise Critic? Were they aware of the de facto policy before? Did they know Princess allowed unlimited wine? Or did they read the rules and believe they could only take one bottle onboard?

 

How many of them view the new policy as a libralization of the rules since they can now take more wine onboard (at $15 each)? Many of these people like the new rule and will sail Princess more not less.

[GHDPeter]

There are lots of complaints on this thread about the new Princess Alcohol Policy and its implementation. However, there are only about 600 posts here, so probably less individual posters than that. 600 is a tiny percentage of the Princess passengers. What about all those passengers that don't us Cruise Critic? Were they aware of the de facto policy before? Did they know Princess allowed unlimited wine? Or did they read the rules and believe they could only take one bottle onboard?

 

How many of them view the new policy as a libralization of the rules since they can now take more wine onboard (at $15 each)? Many of these people like the new rule and will sail Princess more not less.

 

It is already happening in Australia, more pax are bringing wine onboard and many for the first time since they are now aware of the rules.

 

I am happy with the new rules and policy.

[JimmyVWine]

The land restaurants are marking the price up from the wholesale price of bottles that have all the taxes included.

 

Princess is marking the price up from the wholesale price of bottles that do not have all the land taxes.

 

Why would you think that this is true? Princess (or CCL) has to pay whatever taxes are assessed in the state where it purchases and takes possession of the wine, same as any other business or restaurant. If you buy a case of wine direct from a California winery, you are going to be charged California taxes, even if you tell them that you intend to drink (or re-sell) that case in international waters. Same is true if you buy 5,000 cases from a distributor. Wherever the deal goes down, the taxes will get collected and paid. Princess is not tax-exempt.

[LH25]

It is really hard to believe that experienced business executives of a large corporation, such as Princess could make such a huge cockup and antagonise so many people (Customers) without sitting down first and seriously thinking through the problem, the action and its repercussions. Somewhere I once read that the customer was king and always right.

 

Maybe a little off topic, but there is a funny website called notalwaysright.com, that has some good stories about customers who truely believed they were always right. They aren't.

[LH25]

Bear in mind that a very large portion of cruisers, especially first timers, will not know or be aware of the difference. The CC population is a very small but vocal portion of overall cruise passengers.

 

Good point. And even this smaller portion of passengers doesn't agree that what Princess did was wrong.

[42CruiseCrazy]

Good point. And even this smaller portion of passengers doesn't agree that what Princess did was wrong.

 

It seems most people on this thread are not against the policy but dislike the way it has been communicated and enforced. Many passengers may be accused of smuggling simply because they did not know that they MUST bring their wine onboard in their carry on luggage. Others who went shopping or received gifts of alcohol prior to their cruise with Princess will be upset because the cruise line is not willing to store their alcohol for the duration of the cruise. Princess (or Carnival) should establish reasonable policies and procedures that enforce the rules and still show respect, reasonableness and courtesy to their passengers. Too much damage has been done to the Princess reputation already.

[81Zoomie]

Princess just called me in response to my email. I was told wine packages are only offered on cruises 10 days and longer. As for the current bring your on wine policy the rep first said it was only one bottle per passenger. When I asked about the corkage fee for extra she said no. When I pointed out that guidance was in conflict with the Princess press release, she was confused and said she would have to do some research. Then she came back with "oh yes",you can pay corkage for extra bottles. It was obvious she was as confused as everyone else. I explained I would like to have the policy in writing because the crews implementing the policy were confused as well. The rep said she would email me the current guidance.

[robtulipe]

Why would you think that this is true? Princess (or CCL) has to pay whatever taxes are assessed in the state where it purchases and takes possession of the wine, same as any other business or restaurant. If you buy a case of wine direct from a California winery, you are going to be charged California taxes, even if you tell them that you intend to drink (or re-sell) that case in international waters. Same is true if you buy 5,000 cases from a distributor. Wherever the deal goes down, the taxes will get collected and paid. Princess is not tax-exempt.

There is either no excise tax paid or it can be drawn back (refunded) when wine is exported from CA or any other US state. It is subject to that other area's taxes if exported to another state or country but there would not be any for cruise ships in international waters. There is even a category for use as supplies for vessels and aircraft. Also exported products, when sold and consumed in international waters are not subjected to state and local sales tax which probably applies when sold in land based restaurants and businesses.

 

See http://www.ttb.gov/itd/wine_wholesaler_taxpaid.shtml

[ONT-CA]

Why would you think that this is true? Princess (or CCL) has to pay whatever taxes are assessed in the state where it purchases and takes possession of the wine, same as any other business or restaurant. If you buy a case of wine direct from a California winery, you are going to be charged California taxes, even if you tell them that you intend to drink (or re-sell) that case in international waters. Same is true if you buy 5,000 cases from a distributor. Wherever the deal goes down, the taxes will get collected and paid. Princess is not tax-exempt.

 

Alcohol beverages when delivered to vessels that are to sail into international waters are shiped in bond as "ship stores" and are free of all federal, state and local taxes and duties. Because the product is to be consumed only within international waters boundaries is the reason the bars are closed when the ships are in port.

[paul929207]

Princess just called me in response to my email. I was told wine packages are only offered on cruises 10 days and longer. As for the current bring your on wine policy the rep first said it was only one bottle per passenger. When I asked about the corkage fee for extra she said no. When I pointed out that guidance was in conflict with the Princess press release, she was confused and said she would have to do some research. Then she came back with "oh yes",you can pay corkage for extra bottles. It was obvious she was as confused as everyone else. I explained I would like to have the policy in writing because the crews implementing the policy were confused as well. The rep said she would email me the current guidance.

The wine package is available on all cruises of more than 10 days that I am not on. I have been on 7 cruises, all at least 12 days long on three Princess ships in the past year and not one offered the wine package.

[JimmyVWine]

There is either no excise tax paid or it can be drawn back (refunded) when wine is exported from CA or any other US state. It is subject to that other area's taxes if exported to another state or country but there would not be any for cruise ships in international waters. There is even a category for use as supplies for vessels and aircraft. Also exported products, when sold and consumed in international waters are not subjected to state and local sales tax which probably applies when sold in land based restaurants and businesses.

 

See http://www.ttb.gov/itd/wine_wholesaler_taxpaid.shtml

 

The cruise line is not an exporter or wholesaler.

 

The publication cited states:

Anyone other than a qualified proprietor of a bonded wine cellar who plans to engage in the business of exporting taxpaid wine out of the United States must first obtain a basic permit under the Federal Alcohol Administration Act (FAA Act). The FAA Act requires that anyone purchasing alcohol beverages for resale at wholesale, either domestically or in foreign commerce, to first obtain a Wholesaler's Basic Permit before commencing business.

 

Princess does not resell at wholesale. They sell at retail to the end user consumer.

[LARGIN]

The wine package is available on all cruises of more than 10 days that I am not on. I have been on 7 cruises, all at least 12 days long on three Princess ships in the past year and not one offered the wine package.

 

We took advantage of the wine package on the Sapphire last month..

[robtulipe]

The cruise line is not an exporter or wholesaler.

 

The publication cited states:

Anyone other than a qualified proprietor of a bonded wine cellar who plans to engage in the business of exporting tax paid wine out of the United States must first obtain a basic permit under the Federal Alcohol Administration Act (FAA Act). The FAA Act requires that anyone purchasing alcohol beverages for resale at wholesale, either domestically or in foreign commerce, to first obtain a Wholesaler's Basic Permit before commencing business.

 

Princess does not resell at wholesale. They sell at retail to the end user consumer.

The cruise line buys from an exporters/wholesalers so that would give them access to the tax free wine prices since the product is being exported out of the US and typically sold to the passenger in international waters.

It is the same for other products like alcohol, jewelery, cigarettes, etc that can be purchased onboard duty and tax fee when the ship is in international waters.

That is the reason the ship's shops are typically closed when in port since those purchases would then be subject to taxes.

The only time bar drinks are subject to taxes, local, state and federal, is when consumed in port. I experienced that on our last X cruise with the drinks we had at the Sunset bar while waiting to sail out of Pt. Everglades.

[paul929207]

We took advantage of the wine package on the Sapphire last month..

Only because I was on the Grand. :)

[JimmyVWine]

The cruise line buys from an exporters/wholesalers so that would give them access to the tax free wine prices since the product is being exported out of the US.

It is the same for other products like alcohol, jewelery, cigarettes, etc that can be purchased onboard duty and tax fee when the ship is in international waters.

 

Ah. That makes sense. Provided, of course, that they buy from said exporters/wholesalers. There might be cost incentives to buy direct from wineries given the volume that they are purchasing. And if they did that, they would have to pay the tax.

 

Here's a quote from an article that I found. Can't link the article, because it is from an industry publication that requires a membership to view.

 

An important factor driving wine sales on ships is an aggressive pricing strategy. For the most part, cruise lines don't have to pay taxes on wines sold at sea and markups can hover as low as 1.5, which is unheard of in the restaurant sector where they usually range between 2.5 and 3. These two factors combined make for some great deals on cruise line wine lists and great opportunities for producers.... The bulk of cruise lines purchase their wines through brokers or buy directly from their favorite vineyards in bulk.

 

Note that if they buy direct from their "favorite vineyard", I don't see how they could avoid payment of the state tax. However, this article was focusing more on the higher end, smaller cruise lines and ships and did not mention Princess or CCL at all, (though it did discuss HAL).

[johnmik1]

Alcohol beverages when delivered to vessels that are to sail into international waters are shiped in bond as "ship stores" and are free of all federal, state and local taxes and duties. Because the product is to be consumed only within international waters boundaries is the reason the bars are closed when the ships are in port.

 

When have bars ever been closed when ships are in port?Am I missing something?

[AcaCandy]

AhNote that if they buy direct from their "favorite vineyard", I don't see how they could avoid payment of the state tax. However, this article was focusing more on the higher end, smaller cruise lines and ships and did not mention Princess or CCL at all, (though it did discuss HAL).

 

 

 

The winery would simply have them fill out (and they would keep on file) a state tax exempt form.

[robtulipe]

Note that if they buy direct from their "favorite vineyard", I don't see how they could avoid payment of the state tax. However, this article was focusing more on the higher end, smaller cruise lines and ships and did not mention Princess or CCL at all, (though it did discuss HAL).

IMO cruiseline corporations as large as RCCL and Carnival probably have a division in their purchasing department to act as the exporter for the direct purchase of large volume products such as alcohol and wine.

Also the larger wineries or distillers could act as the exporter for their large volume direct export sales.

[PunkiC]

It seems most people on this thread are not against the policy but dislike the way it has been communicated and enforced. Many passengers may be accused of smuggling simply because they did not know that they MUST bring their wine onboard in their carry on luggage. Others who went shopping or received gifts of alcohol prior to their cruise with Princess will be upset because the cruise line is not willing to store their alcohol for the duration of the cruise. Princess (or Carnival) should establish reasonable policies and procedures that enforce the rules and still show respect, reasonableness and courtesy to their passengers. Too much damage has been done to the Princess reputation already.

 

Precisely. A well-presented policy, complete with all of the facts, would have gone a long way to making it more palatable for all.

 

Yes there will be some new passengers who won't know the difference, but cruise lines depend very heavily on their repeat business and really shouldn't risk those loyal passengers by behaving foolishly.

 

johnmmik1 writes:

 

When have bars ever been closed when ships are in port?Am I missing something?

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. I know we have met many people for a drink prior to sail away and most certainly had wine with dinner while we were in the harbor in Victoria.

[Loonbeam]

If your volume is large enough, you could probably convince the provider to pay the tax. That said, if I was going to do it, I would set up my own wholesaler as a subsidiary, pay the tax there and offset it as a cost at the parent level.

 

I'd have to sit down and do the math to see if its worth it or just contract a broker.

 

Ah. That makes sense. Provided, of course, that they buy from said exporters/wholesalers. There might be cost incentives to buy direct from wineries given the volume that they are purchasing. And if they did that, they would have to pay the tax.

 

Here's a quote from an article that I found. Can't link the article, because it is from an industry publication that requires a membership to view.

 

An important factor driving wine sales on ships is an aggressive pricing strategy. For the most part, cruise lines don't have to pay taxes on wines sold at sea and markups can hover as low as 1.5, which is unheard of in the restaurant sector where they usually range between 2.5 and 3. These two factors combined make for some great deals on cruise line wine lists and great opportunities for producers.... The bulk of cruise lines purchase their wines through brokers or buy directly from their favorite vineyards in bulk.

 

Note that if they buy direct from their "favorite vineyard", I don't see how they could avoid payment of the state tax. However, this article was focusing more on the higher end, smaller cruise lines and ships and did not mention Princess or CCL at all, (though it did discuss HAL).

[JimmyVWine]

IMO cruiseline corporations as large as RCCL and Carnival probably have a division in their purchasing to act as the exporter for their large volume requirements for such products as alcohol and wine.

They all use brokers, like Intervine. The whole process is too complex for cruise lines to wade in. They outsource this and have in-house people to whom the brokers report. But the brokers do the vast majority of the work.

 

Also the larger wineries or distillers could act as the exporter for their large volume direct export sales.

 

True. But when the cruise line wants to obtain wines from a small producer without large volume, they simply have the broker go in and negotiate the best price and buy it direct. Or do it themselves. The service that the broker provides (just got off the phone with one to discuss), includes bringing smaller producers into the tax-free fold, but sometimes it doesn't make sense to do that, and the cruise line or airline (through the broker) simply buys the wine the way anyone else would, if they want it that badly, negotiating the best possible price, and pays tax. Bottom line, based on what I was told, is that the majority of wine on the ship is tax free. But some of it is not. But the volume that is not is not enough to worry about. And again, this discussion was generic and not related to Princess. It is possible that Princess has no tax-free wine on board.

[robtulipe]

When have bars ever been closed when ships are in port?Am I missing something?

Correct, this has been my experience also.

The only differences is that bar drinks purchased/consummed in port may have local taxes added to the bill.