There is Something Very Wrong and I Don't Know What it Is........

[sail7seas]

I have been actively involved on CC for over 10 years as evidenced in my profile.

 

I love CC and call it my 'hobby'. For me, who loves cruising HAL ships, talking about them here on CC is the next best thing to being aboard.

 

I have never been so depressed and saddened as I am lately when I come here. Never in all these years have I read of so many unhappy HAL cruisers for so many varied reasons.

 

The poor way HAL announced the Wine Policy change was very upsetting to almost everyone here. On top of which, the new policy probably could use some 'tweaking'.

 

Mariners are discovering the more loyal they have been, the higher prices they are being charged.

 

Frequent loyal cruisers have discovered they are rarely offered upsells and upgrades in comparison to new cruisers being offered all sorts of delightful surprises.

 

Another cruiser has always purchased from HAL liquor by the bottle for her cabin enjoyment and now has to buy a full case.

 

Other people learned of a new Explore4 program and then learned the price of their cruise would have to go up in order for them to get small benefit..

 

We have to call and beg, plead, cajole to get our hands on a Cruise Atlas so we can learn what HAL is selling. Why do we have to jump through hoops to get a brochure we can enjoy reading to pick our next cruises? :confused:

 

I could go on but you get the point.

 

What in the world is going on with HAL and HAL's cruisers?

Surely it has to be me but I have never read of so much displeasure about something that is supposed to be fun and happy and exciting and relaxing and a treat.........

 

HAL may have some Mariners as loyal as DH and me but they have NO ONE MORE loyal than DH and me. We love the 'dam' ships, we love our HAL cruises and most of all we love HAL's Officers/crew/staffs. But I am not loving some of the things I've been reading here in recent weeks. We are HAL's best Mariners.... There are some as good but none better.

 

Where did all the fun go? :confused:

[magandab]

I feel the same way but I've decided to believe that the fun is on the ships and that all this negativity is here on CC. Last year before my O -dam cruise in New Zealand I was almost dreading the trip, thanks to all the doom and gloom here. It turned out to be the best cruise ever. Food, entertainment, service (with a couple of exceptions) was the best we've had. Even the exceptions weren't bad, just not as outstanding as we've come to expect from HAL service.

 

I find I spend more time on other boards than he HAL one, to avoid the constant whining.

[sail7seas]

I used to be the first to call it whining, dismiss it and run away from it but I'm not sure anymore.

Are they whining or are they right?

[sunviking90]

Very well put. This used to be a place to come and get excited about cruising and find out more info. Maybe it's because there are very few "new " HAL cruisers on this forum, the conversations turn to other things. I don't know if the recent turn is a sign of deep dissatisfaction with HAL or if it just seems that way. I notice some of the more "positive" posters are wisely being silent, but the result is a very depressing forum to read.

I have a Celebrity cruise booked in the spring (first one) and I've enjoyed reading that forum much more lately- could be because I am still learning all I can about Celebrity.

I am disillusioned with HAL right now and this forum right now unfortunately feeds that. ( I realize I just added to the negativity didn't I:rolleyes:)

[sunviking90]

I used to be the first to call it whining, dismiss it and run away from it but I'm not sure anymore.

Are they whining or are they right?

 

Like anything, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[startwin]

Perhaps, Sail, as you are their most loyal customer, you should send that posting directly to the President of HAL.

[LindaM]

I used to be the first to call it whining, dismiss it and run away from it but I'm not sure anymore.

Are they whining or are they right?

 

Friends have sailed HAL, because of our recommendations. They were not nearly as excited as we have been, following their cruises. I felt really guilty directing them towards HAL!!

 

People have different expectations. The person who said we are whining may not have any expections, or minimal at best.

[magandab]

I used to be the first to call it whining, dismiss it and run away from it but I'm not sure anymore.

Are they whining or are they right?

 

Just because they may be right doesn't make the constant negative conversation any less whining. I don't think I'm running away from the reality of the changes, good or bad, but honestly how many times do I want to read how terrible the same thing is? That's what I call whining.

[kazu]

Very well put. This used to be a place to come and get excited about cruising and find out more info. Maybe it's because there are very few "new " HAL cruisers on this forum, the conversations turn to other things. I don't know if the recent turn is a sign of deep dissatisfaction with HAL or if it just seems that way. I notice some of the more "positive" posters are wisely being silent, but the result is a very depressing forum to read.

I have a Celebrity cruise booked in the spring (first one) and I've enjoyed reading that forum much more lately- could be because I am still learning all I can about Celebrity.

I am disillusioned with HAL right now and this forum right now unfortunately feeds that. ( I realize I just added to the negativity didn't I:rolleyes:)

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head! I know there are some that are disappointed and/or disillusioned. I think for some of us it was not just the change to the wine policy but the way it was done and the drastic move that was made.

 

For others, either having to pay much more for Explore4 even though they were booked or not being able to get it. Others, different pricing, others the Atlas, etc.

 

I think the whole thing has erupted because people have started to look, explore and think.

 

I'm sure things will get back to a more positive vein but right now, I think some very loyal HAL cruisers are starting to question everything and feeling a bit blue instead of thinking of blue hulls.

 

Not trying to add to the negativity just saying;)

[startwin]

The most negative aspect of this board in recent years is when a poster protests or reports something not up to par, it's called "whining" - the word alone is offensive to me.

[OVgirl]

Perhaps, Sail, as you are their most loyal customer, you should send that posting directly to the President of HAL.

 

This is also the first thing that came to mind when I was reading your post.

 

There is a saying that "ignorance is bliss".

"What we don't know won't hurt us" seems to be true these days.

 

I think with more people posting on this type of site, we are being made aware of more details of people's experiences than in the past.

 

We know way too much, even more than many TAs. And if you are not able to sift and sort all the information, it's easy to think that you are going to have a bad cruise.

 

But, I agree, that it really seems that HAL is shortchanging their loyal Mariners. Until you reach 4*, there isn't much benefit to your loyalty.

 

Sail, you have stated it very well.

HAL and their money crunchers need to know this.

[canadarocks]

I'm sad that you are sad sail. You, and quite a few others, have always been a wonderful source of information and advice about HAL cruises. Although I have not been cruising long, we became 3star Mariners very quickly, and I truly do credit the people here for my HAL loyalty.

 

I didn't visit here unless I had a cruise planned (or afterward to post how one went), but I knew that you "regulars" and others would be here to help me when I returned.

 

When the wine debacle occurred, I began to question my loyalty to HAL. For the first time we looked to other lines, and have booked our next cruise with Princess. At this point I am excited to try something new and we shall see how that experience compares to our 5 Holland America ones.

 

Perhaps we will return to HAL, perhaps not. But the fact that I am posting this should show you how much I have come to value the HAL board, and the awesome people like you that I have come to "know" and respect.

 

Thank you sail and know that you are very much appreciated!

[sapper1]

I have been actively involved on CC for over 10 years as evidenced in my profile.

 

I love CC and call it my 'hobby'. For me, who loves cruising HAL ships, talking about them here on CC is the next best thing to being aboard.

 

I have never been so depressed and saddened as I am lately when I come here. Never in all these years have I read of so many unhappy HAL cruisers for so many varied reasons.

 

The poor way HAL announced the Wine Policy change was very upsetting to almost everyone here. On top of which, the new policy probably could use some 'tweaking'.

 

Mariners are discovering the more loyal they have been, the higher prices they are being charged.

 

Frequent loyal cruisers have discovered they are rarely offered upsells and upgrades in comparison to new cruisers being offered all sorts of delightful surprises.

 

Another cruiser has always purchased from HAL liquor by the bottle for her cabin enjoyment and now has to buy a full case.

 

Other people learned of a new Explore4 program and then learned the price of their cruise would have to go up in order for them to get small benefit..

 

We have to call and beg, plead, cajole to get our hands on a Cruise Atlas so we can learn what HAL is selling. Why do we have to jump through hoops to get a brochure we can enjoy reading to pick our next cruises? :confused:

 

I could go on but you get the point.

 

What in the world is going on with HAL and HAL's cruisers?

Surely it has to be me but I have never read of so much displeasure about something that is supposed to be fun and happy and exciting and relaxing and a treat.........

 

HAL may have some Mariners as loyal as DH and me but they have NO ONE MORE loyal than DH and me. We love the 'dam' ships, we love our HAL cruises and most of all we love HAL's Officers/crew/staffs. But I am not loving some of the things I've been reading here in recent weeks. We are HAL's best Mariners.... There are some as good but none better.

 

Where did all the fun go? :confused:

 

It must be contagious. I thought it was just me and I needed an attitude adjustment, but I have been receiving FB and email messages from other CC members saying much the same thing. The fun is gone.

 

Old friends on CC have disappeared and it takes a while to get to know newcomers and build up a rapport.

 

Hopefully it is all temporary and things will settle down.

[Wakepatrol]

Yes when things aren't up to par and people complain it's not whining.

 

When a poster tells us the same old tired story, day after day, post after post,then it becomes whining. We get it,you've mentioned it 8,000 times

[dmcfad2]

All in all, I am guessing that maybe 5% of HAL passengers post on CC. I am just pulling that figure out of the air, but my point is that it is a small group in comparison to the number of people that cruise on HAL ships. These negative posts I have been reading lately seem to be mainly loyal HAL customers and they are disillusioned with some of the new things they are seeing and experiencing. I have been bummed out reading the posts. I understand they are disappointed and frustrated, but the complaining on these boards goes on and on and on..... The best thing to do is complain directly to HAL, in my opinion. I have always enjoyed CC to find out port information, cruising tidbits, chat with fellow passengers and to help me get more excited for any upcoming cruise I may have! There doesn't seem to be much of that on the HAL boards lately. I have always had wonderful cruises, I love them! I'm not much of a wine drinker, so that policy doesn't affect me, but I think I would just suck it up and pay for my wine on the ship. There HAS to be something worth drinking. When I cruise, I go for the itinerary and the experience of seeing new places, meeting new people, dining, entertainment, being waited on (I love that part!) and just plain relaxing. I choose to believe that the majority of passengers love their cruises on HAL. I do. My cruises haven't always been perfect, but attitude is everything. You can't always control what happens to you, but you can control how you react to it.

 

 

Debbie

[magandab]

The most negative aspect of this board in recent years is when a poster protests or reports something not up to par, it's called "whining" - the word alone is offensive to me.

 

I agree, when a poster reports something not up to par, that is not whining. When everyone piles on, and it goes on and on and on, and anyone who has something good or upbeat to say is called a cheerleader, it starts to sound like whining.

 

I find that being called a cheerleader in this context is also offensive.

 

And here we go with more negativity. See how contagious it is?

[taxmantoo]

Although I'm certain HAL does monitor the CC boards and Facebook religiously (if not, they should as any business does), the negative comments on these media are quite negligible. If you take into account that only 5% of cruisers are actually CC members and only a minute percentage of those post regularly, the negative comments we have seen recently tend to come from the same 10 or 12 people continually. They do get tiresome after a while and I do not know whether to consider them ranting or whining. Either way, if you continually threaten to move to another cruise line, please do so soon so that the rest of us can move on with our lives. Otherwise, you will soon be considered like "the boy/girl who cried wolf ..."

[rafinmd]

I want to respond to this and I'm a bit unsure how. I frequent many forums and I see a lot of disenchantment everywhere. I think it may resonate a little more for single cruiseline people because so many of the complaints they see come from people they see as their friends.

 

I've really never been a fan of cruise line loyalty. Cruise lines are a business and I expect them to earn my business every time I sail. Knowing that I always have several other cruise lines to choose from really makes me far more committed to my choice than if I just went with the default.

 

The grass always looks greener on the other side. I think anybody who is not happy with HAL should give somebody else a try. It's a business, not a marriage. I think it's hard to have a bad cruise and the opportunity to say I chose this and here's why is very satisfying.

 

Roy

[innlady1]

Perhaps, Sail, as you are their most loyal customer, you should send that posting directly to the President of HAL.

 

I was just going to suggest that. Sail, be our ambassador, please? If they don't listen to you, they won't listen to anyone!

[startwin]

Interesting to see the attacks beginning again. In spite of your good intentions, Sail, it just opened the door wide and and it began again. There you go, the negatives posts.

[cruisun]

Actually many things and you mentioned several of them in your original post. Many of us are sad that HAL is not quite what it used to be. Some of us have moved on, some are looking at other options and I think some are trying to hold on and continue to complain or voice concerns, wishing things would change.

 

Maybe sail, judging from your post, there is a tiny crack in your iron clad loyalty. Nothing wrong with it but it seems that may be why your feeling sad.

 

I have moved on to other cruise lines for now but still visit HAL boards hoping to hear of positive change and out of curiosity. I do hope to sail HAL again but after my last few HAL cruises my experience is that the negativity is not only here on the boards. IMHO

[MMOMOM]

I have been actively involved on CC for over 10 years as evidenced in my profile.

 

I love CC and call it my 'hobby'. For me, who loves cruising HAL ships, talking about them here on CC is the next best thing to being aboard.

 

I have never been so depressed and saddened as I am lately when I come here. Never in all these years have I read of so many unhappy HAL cruisers for so many varied reasons.

 

The poor way HAL announced the Wine Policy change was very upsetting to almost everyone here. On top of which, the new policy probably could use some 'tweaking'.

 

Mariners are discovering the more loyal they have been, the higher prices they are being charged.

 

Frequent loyal cruisers have discovered they are rarely offered upsells and upgrades in comparison to new cruisers being offered all sorts of delightful surprises.

 

Another cruiser has always purchased from HAL liquor by the bottle for her cabin enjoyment and now has to buy a full case.

 

Other people learned of a new Explore4 program and then learned the price of their cruise would have to go up in order for them to get small benefit..

 

We have to call and beg, plead, cajole to get our hands on a Cruise Atlas so we can learn what HAL is selling. Why do we have to jump through hoops to get a brochure we can enjoy reading to pick our next cruises? :confused:

 

I could go on but you get the point.

 

What in the world is going on with HAL and HAL's cruisers?

Surely it has to be me but I have never read of so much displeasure about something that is supposed to be fun and happy and exciting and relaxing and a treat.........

 

HAL may have some Mariners as loyal as DH and me but they have NO ONE MORE loyal than DH and me. We love the 'dam' ships, we love our HAL cruises and most of all we love HAL's Officers/crew/staffs. But I am not loving some of the things I've been reading here in recent weeks. We are HAL's best Mariners.... There are some as good but none better.

 

Where did all the fun go? :confused:

 

I am sorry you're sad too Sail ..... you were so helpful to me when we booked our first HAL cruise. Normally, I wouldn't get on the boards till I either booked or had just come back from a cruise. Now I get some 'feeds' in my email and so I'm looking at all the board lines more than usual. At the time we booked HAL I thought all you people were so nice and so helpful. Really enjoyed it. Not mentioning which one, but some boards just 'aren't so nice'! LOL! :rolleyes: We loved our HAL cruise and were always looking at something that might fit the budget as well as timing. Just hadn't found anything yet. We told our neighbors when we returned how great the cruise was and they immediately booked and had the same wonderful time. We are usually RCCI cruisers and have a lot of loyalty perks with Diamond .... at least for our purposes (some still complain, LOL!) and also a 'next cruise certificate' we bought last time, so of course that holds weight when the time comes to book. But, we still always look at HAL .... you never know. I have to say some of the things I'm reading are making me wonder about HAL in general. Do you suppose it has anything to do with being owned by Carnival and all of their recent problems? Makes one wonder. I just don't know ... hoping that maybe as some posters say, it's just a few whining? But, I also agree that someone like you definitely should forward what you said, very nicely I might add, to HAL. Might help, who knows? A lot of what people are complaining about really don't make a difference to us, but I'm just wondering about the general integrity of the cruise itself. We are not wealthy and when we cruise, like others, we want it to be worth it for that kind of $. Hope no one thinks I'm 'whining' .... I don't mean it to sound like that. I'm just stating that reading all of this is making me cautious of taking the plunge with that kind of $ if it's not going to be worth it. I hope things change and will keep reading the boards. Regardless of negativity at times (on all boards), it's still a wealth of knowledge and there are a lot of very nice people on here. We won't be cruising again till at least next year since we have a couple of land trips planned, but like I said, I'm always 'looking'!! In the meantime, thanx to all the great and helpful HAL posters .... appreciate it! :)

[Crazy For Cats]

Sail, all of your points are valid and do concern me as well. I am still a happy HAL customer. My plan is to book a b2b on the Maasdam for next June (14 days are not yet priced) when I am on the Veendam in a week. I take all of the criticisms as words of caution and hopefully allow me to plan my cruises with more and better information. As I read the boards I learn some very interesting tips on how to better plan and enjoy my vacation with HAL.

 

Over my few cruises, HAL has treated me fairly when I expressed some dissatisfaction on how my vacation went. Even when I wasn't looking for anything back. I also make it a point to let them know what I think they did well and anyone who made our vacation special. I will always be grateful for the crew of the Westerdam and how wonderful they were to my mother last year. The crew went out of their way to make her stay memorable.:D

 

In short yes they, and most companies, could do some things better. But when I sum it all up HAL is still the place that I would like to continue to sail with. I have many fond memories on those dam ships.

[jer_l]

This board has become more negative recently. I cruise other lines so I wouldn't consider myself as loyal to HAL as Sail, but HAL is one of our top 2 choices for cruising.

 

Cruise lines, HAL included, are continually making changes. Unfortunately, people who have difficulty with change are often the most vocal. With recent HAL changes we have heard more and more from these posters. Some of the most vocal I have blocked because I have tired of the constant complaining and attacking. (I also have reported posts that are clearly posted to incite or attack others rather than add to the conversation and have seen those posts removed.)

 

Our recent cruise on the Amsterdam to Alaska was a very good experience overall. The weather was amazing. We had a great time. I had planned to post a review here along with some of my photos, but here was my dilemma: I could have written a glowing review that wouldn't really be a true "picture" of our cruise since there were a couple of "issues" during our cruise. If I had written a honest review I knew that the thread would probably be hijacked and there would have been post after post asserting "HAL has changed", "HAL standards have been lowered", "HAL is becoming a mass market cruise line", "I'm going to look for cruises on other lines" . . . . Then there would be the arguing back and forth as to whether those assertions were valid. My, final decision was "IT'S NOT WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT TO SHARE MY CRUISE EXPERIENCE". Instead. I loaded my pictures on my IPad and share with my friends, family and co-workers. They are excited for me--in fact I am working on planning a group cruise next year for some of my co-workers.

 

Sail--you add a lot to these boards and keep things in perspective, but you also get attacked at times by others. Do whatever it takes to make reading these boards fun to you. If you need to block the whiners and distracters--DO IT. (Believe me, it can feel good to read through a thread and come upon "This message is hidden because xxxxxxxx is on your ignore list." When I see that I know that I have avoided reading a negative or whining post that could have taken the wind out of my sails.)

[Krazy Kruizers]

HAL wants rid of we old, loyal timers!!