There is Something Very Wrong and I Don't Know What it Is........

[OlsSalt]

....

 

I think the problems that people are complaining about are real. But they aren't entirely Carnival's fault. It's economics. I think the industry expanded too quickly. Fifteen, maybe more, years ago, the percent of the US population that had cruised was small, under 10 percent. The cruise industry saw that as a huge untapped population, and tried harder to get people to cruise. Landlubbers were wooed with "floating hotels" in which they'd be "guests" instead of "ships" in which they'd be "passengers."

....

 

We have noticed the rapid expansion of the international market, which is where a huge numbers of new HAL passengers are now coming from. It is no longer a primarily North American market any longer. It is a not unreasonable possibility that HAL might actually want to spin off its heavily discounted 4-5 star Mariners to create openings for the new markets that now exist outside North America.

 

Re-positioning the Oosterdam to Australia instead of primarily the Mexican Riviera is but one example of this possible new market exploration. The entire south east asia area of this world now has more upper middle class dollars, than American and Canada combined.

 

This will change the HAL experience even more - expect more multi-lingual offerings, not just exclusively in English. This dramatically changes scheduling of common ship activities as well, when programs need to be presented in several languages.

[cruisetrail]

I am not loyal to any cruise line.

I am loyal to best ships.

 

I cannot judge about how good/bad the cruise line was in 1995.

What I can say for sure - I wouldn't cruise on this cruise line nowadays if there were no Signature class ships.

I am a vacation cruiser (not a retirement cruiser), so I simply don't have time for the older and smaller ships.

Who knows, probably I would try Westerdam once - to sample the product and get to HMC.

 

We've had a few cruises on the Signature class ships over last few years.

Every next cruise turned out to be better than the previous one.

I consider the Signature class to be the best mass market cruise ships afloat after the QM2 and QE.

 

I have recently researched the offers for a budget Caribbean cruise in inside cabin for a group of four.

The best offer happened to be from HAL (Signature class) - a better price than we had from super budget MSC (that almost got our business).

Now we have more spacious cabin on a ship that delivers incomparably better product - for less $$$.

 

There will be first time cruisers in our group.

What ship to recommend for the first timer?

The best one that offers everything we love in cruise life - all in one.

What ship?

HAL Signature class, of course!

What itinerary?

Eastern Caribbean with Grand Turk and HMC!

So we are happy that the best offer came from the best ship.

 

Miraculously, recent upheavals do not concern us.

We don't drink wine on board (except a glass of wine in a specialty restaurant). We don't buy any beverage "packages" on any ship.

On the Signature class we'll have an ocean of juices and beverages included in the price.

 

What we might need - good weather.

 

I am going to start my review in pictures of the Signature class ships tomorrow.

Hope this will somehow "refresh" the situation on this board.

 

Happy cruising to all!

[PathfinderEss]

Melodie: I think the problems you encountered on your last cruise was the ship. I was not the least bit impressed with the Zuiderdam nor the service. Sorry I spent my money on that cruise.

 

You may be right, we have cruised on that ship 3 times, 2 cruises did not go well and one was great. I think I'm going to say away from her for awhile.

I can remember when we had 100, 300, 500 days and were always invited to the VIP parties.

 

We always sail in either the PS or SA suites (like you) and on that disastrous cruise we weren't even invited to the VIP party (one more incident on that cruise).

 

HAL's captains, hotel directors and whomever are playing games and inviting whom they like.

 

It is like they roll out the red carpet for their favorite passengers and figure that some of us won't be sailing much longer on HAL -- so why bother with inviting the old geezers to anything.

 

Well you know KK when we all started with Hal we were the young ones and I think Hal needs to be aware of that fact. Everyone gets older if your lucky including them.

Hopefully we all have many more years of cruising left, and I for one hope it will be on Hal. We've been cruising with them since '96, we have also have been fairly exclusive with them. We did drift off a few times to try other cruise lines but we kept coming back to them.

Sorry Sails, did not mean to drift off your original post, for a pity party about me. I believe Hal has given lots of bennies to their Mariners, which were never ask for by us but we all now have a problem when they start taking away those bennies, and in especially they manner they have taken away the wine allotment.

[nana51]

I guess because we are relative new to cruising, we don't have that feeling that many of you describe. I have been part of these boards for a long time but we did our first cruise last year, and earlier this year our second. Both on HAL and that's it.

 

And as we have no reference, we do not see what you guys apparantly see. We just love the whole cruising experience and we love HAL.

 

I did come very close to cancelling our Veendam cruise, due to what I read on CC. Veendam was literally trashed in all kinds of reviews and topics and the whole "Veendam needs to be junked" feeling got me very upset. I went ahead with the cruise and am glad that I did.

 

Had I not read these boards, I would never have known Veendam had problems. It was the best vacation ever and I was a bit shocked at myself that I almost cancelled just because of what I was reading here. From that experience I learned to take things here with a grain of salt. There is truth but there are also overreactions and sometimes this group-frenzy thing going on ( I don't think I describe that well but I don't know how better to put into words).

 

I really am sorry for those who feel there is something wrong. Alot of you guys seem like great people, there are many I would love to cruise with some time, and I mostly enjoy reading the posts. Even those sarcastic posts from some of the "grumps", that sort of remind me of the two guys on the muppet show up on the balcony. They sort of grow on you :D

 

So.....not sure what to say but I hope this feeling of "something" wrong lets up and everybody finds the joy and adventure in cruising again. As well as the fun in participating on these boards.

I agree with you completely. This board has become so negative I didn't tell my neice about before she went on her first cruise with us. We had a few glitches but nothing to stop me from cruising on HAL. I first cruised in 2007 so I don't have a backlog of memories about what "used to be". It is reasonably priced and lots of fun. There are other more expensive cruiselines out there if you want a "fancier" time.

[RetiredNow]

Could not agree with you more, Sail. We, too, have come to love HAL over the last 27 years. It seems to be changing and changing fast. Great company....but it may be getting to hard to do business with them. Here's hoping things look up in the near future!

[startwin]

I just returned from a 7 day Volendam Cruise on the Inside Passage---a short cruise for me but was taking my family and that involved work and vacation time. Even though there have been cutbacks in service the cruise was great! I was at the Mariner's Brunch and Hotel Manager James Deering was our table host. When asked by someone at our table why certain things were happening on HAL ships he replied that usually it was because of behavior of many guests. I (as well as others at the table) was appalled to hear of the actions and demands of some guests. It seems we are living in a world of "I want" and to me it's very sad.

 

James Deering said that? Hmm, great tact and P.R. but not surprised to hear that he would blame the customers. Perhaps you should share with us what he had to say about those guests.

[Katie333]

This type of negativity is all over CC, especially when something goes bump in the night. There is a big dust-up over the Royal Princess not meeting on some people's expectations and disappointing in some ways despite being shiny and new, there was a bloodbath over on Carnival boards when they were having incident after incident.

 

HAL has just announced the wine changes, and they were done poorly. Well before this announcement I read posts time and again, where folks were so happy about HAL's wine policy. I get the discontent.

 

Same thing with explore4, a great program IF you were lucky enough to get it without a price increase (and I feel a bit guilty now to say I'm in that bucket).

 

I'm a HAL newbie for sure, but we've done a few cruises elsewhere and I really enjoyed my first experience with HAL earlier this year. We'll sail them again next year.

 

I always treat CC as my 'inside information'. Sometimes it comes in a disgruntled package, sometimes it's very legitimate information, good or bad.

[OlsSalt]

James Deering said that? Hmm, great tact and P.R. but not surprised to hear that he would blame the customers. Perhaps you should share with us what he had to say about those guests.

 

Sounded like it was more background information.

[startwin]

Thanks Silver to Gold, our Zaandam cruise was awesome, it was the Zuiderdam cruise that failed miserably.

That is exactly what I'm trying to do too, go on the next one with no expectations.

 

Melodie, can you share what was wrong with the Zuiderdam cruise? Wondering if she still has mechanical/plumbing issues, and getting a bit nervous now about having two more cruises on her. After my disasters the last time, I felt assured that those issues had been fixed.

[matondo]

I'm new here and I've never sailed on HAL before, to be honest if I'd have come here before booking I may have no done so. Having had terribly bad cruise experience elsewhere I felt booking with someone with HAL's reputation would be the best guarantee of not bring disappointed.

 

My holiday is precious to me, I love to travel but haven't been able to do so for a while due to severe illness, which in turn means I have to get the best value possible as cash is short. I thought I had made the best choice and then I came on here ... To be honest I started to panic about my choice but the obvious loyalty of other posters particularly the OP made me feel a little less anxious.

 

I was mainly looking here for tips, inside info, good advice. I'm already dreading the fact that I'm in an inside cabin and I was hoping to find happy stuff to calm my anxious mind.

 

I hope to see more jolly stuff soon. Oh by the way the funny cruise stories made me giggle :D

 

We love HAL. Our last cruise was on the Disney Dream and I doubt I will ever get my husband back on another Disney ship. The food on Disney was OK but not out of this world. On HAL we have had very few misses in the food category (OK the desserts aren't amazing but they are good). We miss HAL. Our next cruise will hopefully be an Alaskan cruise on HAL for our 35th wedding anniversary!

[mariner]

Sail,

 

There are a few things at play.

 

First, HAL isn't the same line today that it was when you first crossed its gangway.

 

Second, neither are the passengers.

 

Third, 1 + 2 = Cruise Critic. They're wants are quite different than yours. And the twain shall never meet because the line doesn't have to.

 

There are other options that you don't want to consider.

 

So the discussions on here will likely not be what you used to see.

 

Change came. Either keep riding the bus or switch carriers. There actually are some chatrooms on CC that look like the HAL room of old.

[sail7seas]

I 'hear you' but it's HAL for us ...... only. :)

 

The day we stop sailing HAL, we stop sailing but I hope that day is a long way off.

 

[mariner]

Well send Stein an email. But don't be surprised if the answer is stock or no answer at all. He knows you'll be back. He wants the ones who have never sailed. He needs them to keep the large fleet afloat.

[dmcfad2]

And unfortunatly at some point in time the older demographics will not be sailing anymore.Hal has always targeted the older affluent traveler. Changing a company image is one of the hardest things to do. A lot of people who are entering the retirement age and have time to travel now grew up in the rock and roll era. Not listening to string quartets. And while I think it is true that new cruisers spend more I think that most new cruisers on Hal are ones moving up from different lines. So they have already experienced the buying and spending. They are not attracting new cruisers per se like Carnival or Rccl. So cost cutting and generating more revenue by limiting wine brought on board is just one way that they can remain competitive. Just my opinion and I could be wrong. :D

 

Yes! I love that old time rock and roll. :)

[Jade13]

Several other incidents happened on that cruise as well. And when we got home we wrote a letter to the president. That was the first part of December 2011. After we got home from a cruise in March 2012, a letter arrived from HAL.

It basically was a joke -- they hemmed-hawed around all our issues and basically said that they felt we would be better off sailing on another cruise line. That letter prompted us to cancel several cruises.

We like HAL -- over 800 days -- and sadly a letter like that has left a bitter taste in our mouths.

I could go on and on ..........

 

Unbelievable. You really received a letter from HAL that said that? Have you been back on board since?

[OlsSalt]

Unbelievable. You really received a letter from HAL that said that? Have you been back on board since?

 

It would probably be helpful to have seen both letters, rather than relying upon what was "basically" said; not what was actually said.

[Skorpora]

I still love HAL. My 1st cruise was in 2000 on the Westerdam to celebrate paying off our mortgage. It was the best vacation I have ever had! Some of my other family members were cruising HAL before us, and they highly recommended HAL to us. As well, my husband's parents, and brother and sister sailed with HAL when they emigrated to Canada from the Netherlands in 1955. Same thing with my BIL, they also sailed HAL from the Netherlands in 1952.

 

Due to family circumstances - putting the kids through university, money pit house etc., it was 9 years until we had our next cruise. Our TA suggested trying Celebrity, even though we had originally asked for HAL. We said ok we will give them a shot. Nope. Sorry Celebrity. It's HAL for us until cruising is no longer an option for us.

 

Yes, the 2 cruises we've been on with HAL in the meantime are somewhat different from our 1st one, not in a bad way though. I see no reason for us to go to another line. I feel comfortable and right at home on a HAL ship. At least on the Westerdam lol. Finally on a different ship next year.

 

I am 2* but I am not being wooed by HAL with fab offers, but I AM getting literally spammed by Celebrity! I am expecting them to show up at my door one day soon on their knees begging for our return!

 

I guess my point is that despite the cutbacks, hamfisted policy changes, and on and on, HAL appeals to my personality, likes, and comfort level. I hope that others will be able to focus on the positive, the good times had on their holiday, and roll with the changes.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[PathfinderEss]

Melodie, can you share what was wrong with the Zuiderdam cruise? Wondering if she still has mechanical/plumbing issues, and getting a bit nervous now about having two more cruises on her. After my disasters the last time, I felt assured that those issues had been fixed.

 

Oh sorry didn't mean to scare you Startwin, not to worry, nothing wrong with plumbing or airconditioning. All was in good working order. I'm sure you will have a great cruise.

[PathfinderEss]

 

<snip>

 

Why are some experiences better than others? The leadership of the ship makes a huge difference, in my opinion. Who the Captain, Hotel Manager, Dining Room Manager, Culinary Operations Manager, Bar Manager, and Chief Housekeeper is makes the difference in the on-board product offered to the guest.

 

<snip>

 

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

Hope you have a wonderful cruise.

[erewhon]

I think it's not so much the original "complaining" post that is the problem, but rather in the way it is received on this forum. There is far too much trashing of posters who report issues onboard.

 

Some may remember my (sort of) "Live from...." thread on the Zuiderdam last year. I reported back on the non-working toilet, and the air conditioning problems, for pretty much all of our 22-day cruise. I was immediately pounced on and lost count of the negative responses (though I still chuckle over being called a "petulant troll":D) However anyone who cared to read the whole thread also read that we had a heck of a good cruise, in spite of it all. Few responses to that aspect of the thread. Just the flag-wavers continually doubting my word and calling me a "whiner" - yes I hate that word.

 

FWIW - because of the great time we had, I'm also booked on the same ship for the same cruise for next year. I'll let you know if things have improved since the last time - if we don't cancel. Though I will likely find out quicker - I'm also on the Zuiderdam at the end of this month, to Alaska. That cruise was well past final payment date when HAL tried to dump the new wine policy on us, but they certainly didn't alert us to it. Only thanks to Lisa that we even heard about it.

 

I remember your posts from that cruise, was amazed that some CC members were doubting your comments.

 

Best wishes to you and your DH for a marvellous trouble free Alaskan cruise.

[startwin]

I remember your posts from that cruise, was amazed that some CC members were doubting your comments.

 

Best wishes to you and your DH for a marvellous trouble free Alaskan cruise.

 

Thank you:) I still have fond memories of our cruise on the Volendam - it was so nice to meet you and your DH.

[Seago2]

My HAL experience is a whopping two Vista ships long, so take what I say FWIW.

 

I have never had a bad cruise or even a marginal cruise. Every cruise is "the best cruise ever". I mean- I got off 12 days on MSC "loving the service" so that shows my level of requirements ;). However, after I sailed 29 days in a calendar year in 2011 I stepped off the final cruise was was less than thrilled. It was because the thrill was gone- waayyyyy too many nights at sea for me. So I think that people posting here who have 500 nights at sea with HAL may be wondering where that ol' magic has gone- but how could it ever feel the way it used to? To me, HAL is the top of the top, better than Cunard, almost neck and neck with Princess, and I can't look back at my two cruises and think of a single thing wrong.

 

As regards CC, which we know is night and day from being on a cruise, let those without sin cast the first stone. Every HAL board regular has a responsibility not to inflame others. Please do not think that because you are just "expressing your opinion" and using complete sentences and genteel turns of phrase that you are not just as rude as a barely coherent drive by. I see many people on here absolutely fawning over a few of the queen bee regulars. When someone asks a question and someone with 50,000 posts answers it, it's not necessary to say "thank you, thank you, you've always been so helpful, you're so great!" because chances are that person is going to respond to every single thread on here within five minutes, anyway. It's nice to say thank you but the HAL board is now stratified into queen bees, sycophants, disgruntled HAL regulars who are touchy because they've been insulted for their points of view 100 times, common sense Canadians, friendly travel agents, and innocents who are soon to step out of line, ask the wrong question and then respond defensively. That is the dynamic of the HAL board.

 

I don't know if I've ever been so happy that I gave up drinking 15 years ago. That the wine issue is such a lightning rod is amazing to me. I miss luggage tags, the leatherette travel portfolios, the good bags, good baked Alaska, full adagio strings- I remember these and it would be nice to have them back. But for God's sake- does it really matter?

 

Well- we would all do well to consider our answers very carefully for the next month or two and see if we can turn this ship around. And people- I know you know this, but ignore is the best function... If someone irritates you, put them on ignore. You won't have to confront them and bring everyone else down.

[thepoint]

I love reading the HAL forum. I have gained lots of valuable information from seasoned travelers. We have taken five HAL cruises. We have the Southern Caribeaan booked for 2014 and the Panama Canal for 2015. Our last cruise was the 20 day Med in September of 2013. I have found that you do need to take some if the information with a grain of salt. I wrote a lengthy review of the Med cruise. Here are some of the issues which I read on the boards before our trip which I did not find to be true:

 

The food in the MDR - we thought it was very good. No awful gravy on prime rib, just normal au jus.

 

Wine Service in MDR: it was not slow. Once the wine steward knew that we were going to order a glass of wine each night, he was there right away.

 

Lido: The Asian food in the Lido was excellent. If you order a sandwich you must tell the server you want it thick and gesture with your hands, otherwise you will have one slice of meat between lots of bread. You just need to be polite and specific about what you want.

 

Neptune Lounge: the service is excellent. You do not have place your order from the MDR menu early in the day. The staff is wonderful. I have to say the service we got from the concierge was outstanding.

 

Pinnacle Grill: breakfast is great. Sebastian is going to the Oosterdam. Noordam's lost - Oosterdam's gain.

 

Room Service: always delivered at the exact time we asked for it. We would write in a specific time and we could depend on the knock on the doormat the exact time.

 

Room Stewarts: work very hard. Husband asked once for a bar of soap and every few days a new one would miraculously appear. Asked what kind of fruit we liked and from then on we received two bananas every day. Laundry was done within hours.

 

Entertainment: the entertainment for the most part is lacking in quality. But, on this type of cruise we were so exhausted we didn't really care. On the times we did go to the show the vista lounge was less than 1/2 full. HAL seems to depend on passengers to provide the entertainment with karaoke and TV game show type activities. However, we do thing the HAL Cat Band is very good. One night they are playing rock and roll and the next they are backup to a concert violinist.

 

For the most part I don't believe people are whining when they report negative comments, I believe they are sharing their their experience. However, I do feel there does appear to be a very few with either unreal expectations or an attitude of greatness that was not recognized by HAL.

 

We are creatures of habit, we book the same Neptune Suite every time. We just are not interested in any other line. We don't want to be on a mega ship. We have always been treated with respect. I continue to read HAL boards, but don't post very often. I thank you all for your great information, both positive and negative. It has helped us a great deal.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

I have only sailed HAL once to Alaska, but it was a wonderful cruise and tour. Loved every minute of it. The only complaint I had at the time was the pre-night hotel in Anchorage, which I wrote HAL about and got compensated with $OBC. I don't have any complaints about HAL right now except that I cannot get a brochure out of them, and I feel the markup on wine prices are a little steep. Other than that, I am okay with them. I have not had the experience of sailing them 20 - 25 years ago, so I don't have any comparisons to how it used to be long ago. I have not sailed them in over 2 years, so this next cruise, to a different area, may give me a good comparison as to how the line has evolved in that period of time. I am looking forward to my cruise with a happy attitude, despite a lot of grumbling here on this board. Vacations are few and far between and mean a lot to us (as it does to many) so it would take a pretty lousy experience for me to complain about it. I hope all goes well.

[jbhcw]

My HAL experience is a whopping two Vista ships long, so take what I say FWIW.

 

I have never had a bad cruise or even a marginal cruise. Every cruise is "the best cruise ever". I mean- I got off 12 days on MSC "loving the service" so that shows my level of requirements ;). However, after I sailed 29 days in a calendar year in 2011 I stepped off the final cruise was was less than thrilled. It was because the thrill was gone- waayyyyy too many nights at sea for me. So I think that people posting here who have 500 nights at sea with HAL may be wondering where that ol' magic has gone- but how could it ever feel the way it used to? To me, HAL is the top of the top, better than Cunard, almost neck and neck with Princess, and I can't look back at my two cruises and think of a single thing wrong.

 

As regards CC, which we know is night and day from being on a cruise, let those without sin cast the first stone. Every HAL board regular has a responsibility not to inflame others. Please do not think that because you are just "expressing your opinion" and using complete sentences and genteel turns of phrase that you are not just as rude as a barely coherent drive by. I see many people on here absolutely fawning over a few of the queen bee regulars. When someone asks a question and someone with 50,000 posts answers it, it's not necessary to say "thank you, thank you, you've always been so helpful, you're so great!" because chances are that person is going to respond to every single thread on here within five minutes, anyway. It's nice to say thank you but the HAL board is now stratified into queen bees, sycophants, disgruntled HAL regulars who are touchy because they've been insulted for their points of view 100 times, common sense Canadians, friendly travel agents, and innocents who are soon to step out of line, ask the wrong question and then respond defensively. That is the dynamic of the HAL board.

 

I don't know if I've ever been so happy that I gave up drinking 15 years ago. That the wine issue is such a lightning rod is amazing to me. I miss luggage tags, the leatherette travel portfolios, the good bags, good baked Alaska, full adagio strings- I remember these and it would be nice to have them back. But for God's sake- does it really matter?

 

Well- we would all do well to consider our answers very carefully for the next month or two and see if we can turn this ship around. And people- I know you know this, but ignore is the best function... If someone irritates you, put them on ignore. You won't have to confront them and bring everyone else down.

 

Thanks for the post...now I don't have to say anything:) I have been amazed at the wine issue....we love our wine...but hey next time we sail Hal..we'll suck it up and buy their wine...and perhaps not drink quite as much....but life is just way too short to be as miserable as some on this board.