There is Something Very Wrong and I Don't Know What it Is........

[RJ2002]

We are returning to HAL after a brief "affair" with NCL.

 

Our cruising began with in the 1990's with a Caribbean cruise out of Florida on Celebrity. Unfortunately it was during Spring Break, a mistake that we will never make again. The ship, service, and food were all great. Some of the guests, not so much.

 

We then latched on to Princess, for 8 cruises, throughout the 2000's. We truly enjoyed Princess. It was really our style. Toward the end of our Princess run, we began mixing in sailings with HAL. In our mind, HAL took us a step higher, and we were very pleased. Very relaxing cruises with great food and service.

 

In the past few years, due primarily to timing and itinerary, we've sampled NCL a couple of times. The latest NCL cruise was in a Suite, which was an enjoyable indulgence. Service was generally good, but the MDR and Lido food was simply not up to the level of what we had become accustomed to with Princess and, then HAL. You can have better food on NCL, but you have to PAY to do so, at the multitude of fee-based restaurants on board.

 

So, we are happy to return to HAL for a Panama Canal cruise next April on the Zuiderdam.

 

As for the recent things which are troubling some... we usually don't bring wine on board. To us, it's a hassle, and once you add on the corkage fee, to us at least, we really weren't saving enough to justify lugging the wine around the hotel, port, and onboard the day of embarkation. I noted on NCL, they currently don't seem to have a limit on the number of bottles you can bring on board, but they do assess a corkage on each bottle, regardless of where it is consumed. And a point of spirits, which no-one allows you to bring on. On NCL, their charge for a bottle and setup for the room is outrageously expensive. They essentially sell you the bottle based on the number of shots. Ouch! I can say that HAL really has a nice deal on bottles of spirits. Very reasonable. So that is definitely one thing going for HAL.

 

Like others, I spot checked a couple of cruises. Our upcoming PC cruise doesn't have the 4Explore offer. However, similar cruises did have it, and they were quite a bit more expensive that what we paid for a similar cabin on our cruise. Since we are not really big drinkers, for us we are not missing out on that deal, I don't think.

 

I recognize that many folks are disappointed with some of the recent developments, and I am sorry.

 

For us, we are looking forward to returning to HAL.

[Jade13]

I wonder if it is not an example of understaffing.

When there are fewer people doing the same work, the job of finishing up a cruise is a very busy time at the front office. They have a mountain of work to do getting the final bills, debark envelopes and all the rest done on last day. There possibly were not enough people there to enable them to perform a small service for the guest. There are likely a number of such examples going on in all areas of the ship where there may be reduced crew/staff.

 

I definitely believe that is a big issue.

 

On our last cruise the wine steward was saying they were all loosing their jobs, which were being cut. I am not clear how that will work if they now plan to offer beverage packages and are trying to sell more alcohol.

 

Also, if HAL upgraded so everyone could look up their folio information on their TV's like they do on every other mainstream line we have been on, there wouldn't be such long lines at the front desk. But, they don't seem to want to put any money into doing this.

[sammiedawg]

I was struck by the story about the passenger on a world cruise needing assistance printing a boarding pass. Virtually all chain hotels and motels offer this service or they have a self service computer, printer at the front desk for this purpose. $99 Fairfield Inn's offer assistance. Referring a passenger to the Internet manager is insufficient as the Internet is mostly unattended with the manager having limited desk hours. I would be upset if I paid 35k for a world cruise and then got the run around about a boarding pass.

[Jade13]

Why would they listen to her when they don't listen to me and I am a President's Club member and personal friends of some of those at the top in Seattle, having a background of working as an officer onboard and in marketing and special projects ashore, and author of several books on maritime history.

For many many reasons we have left HAL's building. Changes made are all $$ related. That's all a public company in this era can care about.

 

What are some of the specific reasons in your view (other than you may just be finished with cruising in general)?

[Jade13]

I will give you an example of why many are unhappy. We just got off the phone with one or our TAs

 

But then we start talking with the TA about HA and she tells us a story of an incensed customer who recently completed his third World Cruise on HA. A few days before the end of his cruise (over 100 days) he went to Guest Relations to ask them for help in printing out his airline boarding passes. This man is quite old and does not normally use the internet. The Guest Relations manager simply told him he would have to go to the computer room and purchase internet time. Guest Relations suggested that he would be able to get help from the Computer expert (who is not even a HA employee). Needless to say, this guy was not happy. He had just spent over $60,000 on his third world cruise they would not even give him a small favor

Hank

 

Unbelievable!

[sail7seas]

In the time it took the GRM to tell him no and dance around not helping him, (s)he could have printed out the pass and sent him on his way. It's called 'customer service'. This is the hospitality business and the guest should not be 'too much trouble' when they make a rather common, easy to accomplish request. He did not make an unreasonable request IMO

[innlady1]

Judy...have you voiced your thoughts to the "powers that be" at HAL? If not, I wish you would...with all the days you have on their ships, I hope they would listen.

[sail7seas]

Judy...have you voiced your thoughts to the "powers that be" at HAL? If not, I wish you would...with all the days you have on their ships, I hope they would listen.

 

 

No, of course, I haven't.

They don't need me to tell them how to run a cruise line. There are many very able people on Elliott

Avenue making decisions and they are fully aware of their choices. I wouldn't have a clue how to

run HAL or any business of its sort.

 

They seem to have managed without my suggestions for more than 150 years. :D

 

It isn't for me to tell them what or how to do it. It is only for me (and DH) to decide if we still get from HAL cruises what we are seeking. So far, the answer is yes. :)

 

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

Slow dining service query: does this happen more in early fixed dining time, late fixed dining, or in the as you wish dining setting? Does this happen more at the larger or smaller tables?

 

We actually have noticed speedier dining times for late fixed dining, table for two than on earlier HAL cruises - we get there on time, and they start service right away.

 

They used to wait to take our orders until enough people in our section finally showed up, which was not fair to those who showed up on time we thought. But that is not how it has been for several of our past cruises - we are in and out with very little little waiting time at all. One course follows right after the other once it gets started. So what ever changes have been made in the past few years have worked for us.

 

In general, I think dining rooms are understaffed, and it isn't only on HAL, but it's worse there. My observations about slow service are that waiter/assistant teams have about one more table than they can reasonably serve. We saw this on our Bermuda cruise (Veendam) a few years ago, and friends saw it when they went to Bermuda on Veendam's last season to Bermuda. It seems that there's always one table in fixed-time dining that's way behind the others, even if everyone arrives on time. Doesn't seem to be related to the size of the table. And if you're the "behind" table and complain to the Matire d', which my friends did, you get prompt service and another table gets served much later than the others. They just can't seem to get it all done.

 

OTOH, on Maasdam, Rianto and Henry seemed to have a large number of people to serve and managed just fine. Because of where we were sitting, I could see all of their tables. We were far from the kitchen (back by the aft windows), yet food was hot, served promptly, and the two were such a good team that they never seemed frazzled or run off their feet. And that was open dining, not fixed, which I would think is more difficult because the courses aren't all "in sync."

 

I don't know what the difference is. Experience? Training? Management? Or just numbers?

[Hlitner]

I just can't help bring up an issue about table service. This is an area where things many not be quite what they seem. Some folks (like DW and moi) really enjoy dining and do not want to feel like we are in a fast food restaurant. In fact, we have been at large tables on HA where the entire table asked the waiter to please slow down service since we liked to dine (our tables are often among the last to leave the dining room). We know there are others who want to get in and out of the dining room quickly and they should also be accommodated. On our recent Westerdam cruise we were still in the dining room (at a large table of 8) about 9:45 when one of our neighbors stopped-by and asked if we were getting slow service. Everyone (including our waiter who overheard) had a nice laugh and we explained to this other couple (they were at a 2 top) that we liked to eat slow and socialize and they were welcome to pull up a chair and join in the fun conversation.

 

Hank

[innlady1]

In general, I think dining rooms are understaffed, and it isn't only on HAL, but it's worse there. My observations about slow service are that waiter/assistant teams have about one more table than they can reasonably serve. We saw this on our Bermuda cruise (Veendam) a few years ago, and friends saw it when they went to Bermuda on Veendam's last season to Bermuda. It seems that there's always one table in fixed-time dining that's way behind the others, even if everyone arrives on time. Doesn't seem to be related to the size of the table. And if you're the "behind" table and complain to the Matire d', which my friends did, you get prompt service and another table gets served much later than the others. They just can't seem to get it all done.

 

OTOH, on Maasdam, Rianto and Henry seemed to have a large number of people to serve and managed just fine. Because of where we were sitting, I could see all of their tables. We were far from the kitchen (back by the aft windows), yet food was hot, served promptly, and the two were such a good team that they never seemed frazzled or run off their feet. And that was open dining, not fixed, which I would think is more difficult because the courses aren't all "in sync."

 

I don't know what the difference is. Experience? Training? Management? Or just numbers?

 

Interesting. We've been on 3 "S" class ships and our best service was on the Veendam, 2nd on the Ryndam, and Maasdam last.

[OlsSalt]

.......

So, we are happy to return to HAL for a Panama Canal cruise next April on the Zuiderdam.

 

.....

For us, we are looking forward to returning to HAL.

 

We thought the Zuiderdam had consistently the best food of any HAL ship we have been on. Good news although our trip was several years ago, similar reports keep coming in. Looks like you will be in for a good return welcome from HAL. Best wishes.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Interesting. We've been on 3 "S" class ships and our best service was on the Veendam, 2nd on the Ryndam, and Maasdam last.

 

That's what makes it so interesting but also hard to generalize. Everyone's experience is different.

[hypercafe]

I think part of the problem is the perception. If you went on a HAL trip and was told it was a Carnival trip all would be great. HAL likes to say they are a better line, premium cruise line so more personal service is expected, better ships, people with lots of days treated like royals, less people on board. HAL has added more cabins to the ships and really cut back staff and IMO cut back on ship maint. so now there little difference.

[innlady1]

That's what makes it so interesting but also hard to generalize. Everyone's experience is different.

 

Exactly!

[OlsSalt]

We approach sailing on HAL as an easy transportation mode to cover large distances with a good choice of ports, interesting range of shore excursions, comfortable cabins, friendly staff, adequate banquet and/or cafeteria style dining, occasional use of their excellent specialty restaurant for more refined dining experiences, comfortable public rooms, wonderful wrap around deck for strolling, small intimate sized ships.

 

This is basically all we what we want from our cruising experience and we get it from HAL for a good price. We don't expect much more, nor need or even want much more.

[TomBeckCruise]

I just can't help bring up an issue about table service. This is an area where things many not be quite what they seem. Some folks (like DW and moi) really enjoy dining and do not want to feel like we are in a fast food restaurant. In fact, we have been at large tables on HA where the entire table asked the waiter to please slow down service since we liked to dine (our tables are often among the last to leave the dining room). We know there are others who want to get in and out of the dining room quickly and they should also be accommodated. On our recent Westerdam cruise we were still in the dining room (at a large table of 8) about 9:45 when one of our neighbors stopped-by and asked if we were getting slow service. Everyone (including our waiter who overheard) had a nice laugh and we explained to this other couple (they were at a 2 top) that we liked to eat slow and socialize and they were welcome to pull up a chair and join in the fun conversation.

 

Hank

 

We Americans have been conditioned by chain restaurants to be herded in and rushed out. Many of us believe this is normal.

Eating out is much more enjoyable in areas of the world where you are able to enjoy your meal and visit, although I ocassionally see and hear Americans complaining about the slow service.

[cruz chic]

In general, I think dining rooms are understaffed, and it isn't only on HAL, but it's worse there. My observations about slow service are that waiter/assistant teams have about one more table than they can reasonably serve. We saw this on our Bermuda cruise (Veendam) a few years ago, and friends saw it when they went to Bermuda on Veendam's last season to Bermuda. It seems that there's always one table in fixed-time dining that's way behind the others, even if everyone arrives on time. Doesn't seem to be related to the size of the table. And if you're the "behind" table and complain to the Matire d', which my friends did, you get prompt service and another table gets served much later than the others. They just can't seem to get it all done.

 

OTOH, on Maasdam, Rianto and Henry seemed to have a large number of people to serve and managed just fine. Because of where we were sitting, I could see all of their tables. We were far from the kitchen (back by the aft windows), yet food was hot, served promptly, and the two were such a good team that they never seemed frazzled or run off their feet. And that was open dining, not fixed, which I would think is more difficult because the courses aren't all "in sync."

 

I don't know what the difference is. Experience? Training? Management? Or just numbers?

I just don't know why HAL struggles so much. I was on Princess in April and the service was excellent. The dining room staff also brings all the cocktails, wine etc. The service from the wine stewards on HAL is dismal and that's all they have to do! Either there is way more high maintrnance people on HAL or HAL is very disorganized. I would think both Princess and HAL have similiar # of staff.

[cruz chic]

We Americans have been conditioned by chain restaurants to be herded in and rushed out. Many of us believe this is normal.

Eating out is much more enjoyable in areas of the world where you are able to enjoy your meal and visit, although I ocassionally see and hear Americans complaining about the slow service.

I know some folks like to sit and eat for about 4 hours. I've dined with people like that. I have a short attention span and it's just not easy for me to sit there that long. Also I'm getting old :Dand my muscles stiffen up after that long especially since I had knee surgery this summer.

[arewethereyet]

I just don't know why HAL struggles so much. I was on Princess in April and the service was excellent. The dining room staff also brings all the cocktails, wine etc. The service from the wine stewards on HAL is dismal and that's all they have to do! Either there is way more high maintrnance people on HAL or HAL is very disorganized. I would think both Princess and HAL have similiar # of staff.

Ya know what? I just realized why I probably get good service in the MDR and the wine stewards. We have selected open dining now for about as long as it has been offered on all the lines we sail. We made a mistake and ended up with fixed dining on our last X cruise, and the service was awful - wine service worse than non-existent. But, we have never had slow, or bad service when we have open seating. I know for certain that the pace and promptness is better with open seating.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

Not proud of it, but I am a "dine and dash" person myself.....my mother used to say I "ate like I was a fireman on the way to a fire" when I was a kid. It is a hard habit to break. Working for many years conditioned me to eating "on the run" or in between phone calls. That just made it worse. I am trying to slow down some and take my time.......but it is hard to do.

Glad some folks can do it..........it must make it very pleasant.

[OlsSalt]

With as many reports still being made about diners getting excellent service on HAL ships, it is not necessarily the universal conclusion that all HAL dining service has declined or has become unacceptable. We have always seen roving head staff persons who will stop by every table or can be flagged down if necessary, where any personal complaints can be registered immediately. That is their job to oversee the dining room service delivery at the time problems are noted.

[OlsSalt]

Ya know what? I just realized why I probably get good service in the MDR and the wine stewards. We have selected open dining now for about as long as it has been offered on all the lines we sail. We made a mistake and ended up with fixed dining on our last X cruise, and the service was awful - wine service worse than non-existent. But, we have never had slow, or bad service when we have open seating. I know for certain that the pace and promptness is better with open seating.

 

That's funny. We always had late fixed-dining on HAL and have gotten very nice dining and very helpful wine service, so I was wondering if the complaints were coming from those in open dining. :rolleyes:

[cruz chic]

Ya know what? I just realized why I probably get good service in the MDR and the wine stewards. We have selected open dining now for about as long as it has been offered on all the lines we sail. We made a mistake and ended up with fixed dining on our last X cruise, and the service was awful - wine service worse than non-existent. But, we have never had slow, or bad service when we have open seating. I know for certain that the pace and promptness is better with open seating.

I've done open the last several cruises too. I would say it was much better when I did fixed:D. I like to go kinda early, around 6 or 6:30 so maybe it's better later on.

[cruz chic]

With as many reports still being made about diners getting excellent service on HAL ships, it is not necessarily the universal conclusion that all HAL dining service has declined or has become unacceptable. We have always seen roving head staff persons who will stop by every table or can be flagged down if necessary, where any personal complaints can be registered immediately. That is their job to oversee the dining room service delivery at the time problems are noted.

I really don't see that many people saying that.