One-sided changes in last 3 months...

[OBX-Cruisers]

SciFiMonkey (Post #19) made a number of very inciteful comments about the changes at Celebrity on the various activities, charges and packages. First, Michaels is not really any loss to most passengers as I would bet few passenger even knew it had beers and most times it was so quiet in there that the word "dead" is very appropriate as very few passengers ventured in the door since it looked pretty much like a nice room with no people in it. On the Eclipse, Celebrity put Perry Grant in there and that was a good move but now he will be in the new Pub that is replacing Cellar Masters. Why they don't share this wonderful performer on the other X ships is a true mystery since so many people love him and cannot always go on the 14 day Eclipse itineraries.

 

Celebrity has been very effective in irritating a lot of people with their bait and switch tactics in advertising the 123Go packages with clear guidelines in the advert and then switching the rules. This is not a very classy or tasteful procedure Mr. Bayley ...........as the Brits would say: This is a slimy **** procedure. Yes we understand that your contract says you can change anything you want to at any time regardless what you advertised to attract new cruisers, but a warning would have been appreciated by your loyal repeat cruisers who now cannot trust what Celebrity advertises.

I agree with SciFi who called the loss of the Brunch as not significant as we only went once in 3 cruises and decided that the lack of seating and mass of humanity grabbing at food was not worth our time or effort. We have 2 X cruises booked for 2014 and will probably not book any in 2015 until we see what other surprises come out of the Corporate brain trust at Celebrity central. What's next Mr. Bayley, the Glass show on the ships that have that performance or maybe do away with the lawn and tree on S class ships to save fertilizer and the cost of the gardener

 

 

Edited May 12, 2014 by OBX-Cruisers

[OBX-Cruisers]

It should be noted that many of the "enhancements" you mentioned are venues meant to collect additional revenue and are certainly not free or in compensation to losses of services and amenities elsewhere on the ship. Those specialty restaurants for example have some of the highest surcharges of any of the other major cruise lines (e.g., CCL, RCI, NCL, HAL)

So yes everything is relative if you think those pay venues are enhancements

 

 

Prices on Summit haven't changed much in the last few years. During that time, they added the new martini bar, introduced my time dining, added 2 new restaurants, added new cabins, added aqua class and Blue, I could go on. Even drink packages, a great deal for many, are pretty new. So, all in all, I'd say over time the cruise line has added as many enhancements as cut backs, with prices fairly stable.

 

It just depends on your frame of reference. Cruise lines are like good restaurants. Always changing to stay relevant and profitable. If you want exactly what's on the Web site today, leave tomorrow. Otherwise, you have to expect changes. Some you'll like, some you won't, but in the end it is what you make it.

 

 

 

 

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[Duanerice1]

On one hand I agree on the other hand I don't. First of all look at the cool stuff you'll be getting that I missed last week on Carnival Breeze. Couple that we really missed were the free pasties at the Cova Café and breakfast room service with hot options such as omelets. OK, those are just a few of the things I missed last week although I had a great time. And yea, a lobster dinner on the balcony is a great option on the Summit.

 

Last time I went to Disney, March 2014, Splash Mountain was closed. When I booked the trip many months before they never told me that. When I went to the website it still showed pictures of Splash Mountain. They never offered me anything in its place. No discount, no fast passes, nothing. How is that different than Celebrity getting rid of the Zumba classes? And yea Splash Mountain will reopen but they did get rid of other rides without a replacement.

 

I guess with your reasoning, which I do understand as all these changes are happening at the same time, there is no way to Celebrity to change things. For example if they wanted to take away the Zumba or increase Bistro on 5, how would they do it? Do they say beginning X date these things will be gone? Well that date would need to be more than a year in the future as people already have cruises booked more than a year out so they'd feel cheated. That is really not possible.

 

I am not sticking up for Celebrity as I don't like some of the changes either but I'm not sure how they, or any other travel company can change things so some people won't feel cheated. And face it, all companies are taking away perks and usually not adding new ones.

 

I know you guys will have a great time. There will be plenty to eat and drink and the gym is has great hours :)

[countingbackwards]

This isn't about whether the OP will enjoy the cruise or not, he makes it clear that he expects to enjoy it. What this is about is the changing the conditions on a contract. Even if Celebrity is within their legal rights, I for one find it disturbing.

 

We are going on the june 27 alaska cruise, and some of the reasons I chose celebrity was because of several of the perks that have been eliminated. I probably would have chosen them anyway, but I would have liked to have had that option.

 

Bill

 

Agreed 100%. This is exactly what I'm saying: I feel like I'm not quite getting the product that I signed up for. Of course I'm expecting a great time, but all these cutbacks in short order between final payment and the cruise is unfair.

 

I didn't read all the posts, but thought I pitch in my experience on this item since it requires timing. We've done this on several cruises (Summit + Reflection) and had the following experience.

1. When we called room service we were referred to our room steward for ordering.

2. We needed to know exactly what we wanted to order from the menu of that day so we could place our order through the cabin steward. On both occasions the cabin steward did't know what was on the menu for that day. The first time the steward ran up to the MDR to get us a menu. The second time we knew better and wrote down what we wanted to order and handed it to him.

3. All dishes were served at the same time, meaning they didn't arrive as courses like they do in the MDR.

4. The meal arrived to the room at the same time when the main entree was served in the MDR. This means that you need to place the order well enough in advance so you can locate your cabin steward, figure out the order, and have the meal retrieved from the MDR kitchen. This can feel like a long wait for little ones, so be sure to plan ahead.

5. You can place an order for first or second seating, but the meal will still be served when the main entree is served. I mention this because if you miss the first seating ordering window then it's a long wait for the second seating entree.

6. Both times our meals arrived hot and were great!

 

Thanks very much for this information - it is very helpful! My plan would be to go to the MDR, grab a menu, order room service from the MDR for us and perhaps standard room service fare (a burger or something) or pick up from the buffet for the kids, feeding them dinner first, and then eating ours on the balcony when they go to sleep.

[countingbackwards]

On one hand I agree on the other hand I don't. First of all look at the cool stuff you'll be getting that I missed last week on Carnival Breeze. Couple that we really missed were the free pasties at the Cova Café and breakfast room service with hot options such as omelets. OK, those are just a few of the things I missed last week although I had a great time. And yea, a lobster dinner on the balcony is a great option on the Summit.

 

Last time I went to Disney, March 2014, Splash Mountain was closed. When I booked the trip many months before they never told me that. When I went to the website it still showed pictures of Splash Mountain. They never offered me anything in its place. No discount, no fast passes, nothing. How is that different than Celebrity getting rid of the Zumba classes? And yea Splash Mountain will reopen but they did get rid of other rides without a replacement.

 

I guess with your reasoning, which I do understand as all these changes are happening at the same time, there is no way to Celebrity to change things. For example if they wanted to take away the Zumba or increase Bistro on 5, how would they do it? Do they say beginning X date these things will be gone? Well that date would need to be more than a year in the future as people already have cruises booked more than a year out so they'd feel cheated. That is really not possible.

 

I am not sticking up for Celebrity as I don't like some of the changes either but I'm not sure how they, or any other travel company can change things so some people won't feel cheated. And face it, all companies are taking away perks and usually not adding new ones.

 

I know you guys will have a great time. There will be plenty to eat and drink and the gym is has great hours :)

 

While it stinks that Splash Mountain was closed, there are published refurb schedules with Disney that are typically up-to-date prior to final payment date…but also, an attraction or 2 in refurb there is part of standard procedure that you would find out about in pre-vacation research (unlike all these service cuts on Celebrity that could not have been foreseen). The equivalent to what's been happening on Celebrity would be if Disney were to suddenly exclude restaurants from the dining plan, restaurants that gave the plan its value, without advance notice. They do regularly change the dining plan, but never overnight like this.

 

At 75 days out, I can't make a change in my decision to cruise with Celebrity without taking a financial hit. Is it too much to ask that they be held to the same standard? They should absolutely be expected to publish any and all changes in on-board service, pricing, etc. a minimum of 75 days prior to sailing.

 

As I have stated and others have repeated: my concern is not that there have been cuts - it's the clandestine way they've been made. I know it ain't easy to deliver bad news to your customer base, but trying to get around delivering that news just makes it worse.

[hihilo]

You make excellent points. The term "bait + switch" comes to my mind with regards to the many CUTBACKS ~~~ errrrr changes that Celebrity is making. We LOVED our (month) on the Infinity last Dec/ early Jan.~~~Panama canal--around S/America.

It will be INTERESTING to see how much we like the Constellation this Aug/Sept ~~~ N.Europe + Mediterranean.

I am hoping for the BEST for you + your family. :p

[frankt]

You make excellent points . You would think the negative responders to your your post own major shares in celebrity. I plan on not using celebrity after my upcoming cruise which I booked a year ago . I am now put off by all the changes made especially to the micheals club. Any negative responders to this post don,t bother because I don't give a fart what you think

[whataboutport]

If there isn't any escargot on board in Nov, I am so going to throw a hissy fit! JK. But seriously, I really hope they don't cut that back.

[stickey_mouse]

I'm hoping that these cutbacks are occurring so that the quality elsewhere remains high. If celebrity is experiencing decreased revenues, I'd rather they cut back on little things like these than reduce the quality of overall food, entertainment, or facilities.

[bigbenboys]

The way to evaluate your cruise pricing & what is given in exchange by Celebrity is to compare the same cabin type & cabin /ship amenities offered by Princess ,Holland ,NCL ,MSC . That way you will have a more accurate comparison going forward .;)

 

Yes Celebrity is making lots of changes & in our minds (we have over 30 sailings just with Celebrity * a total of 63 cruises) we prefer the older Celebrity with a more sophisticated atmosphere :)

 

.We are NOT abandoning Celebrity ;however ,we are now doing other vacation options & our cruising has been cut way back from what we have done each year .

 

We are not leaving Celebrity. But we did look at Azamara, Regent and Crystal, before booking our Aug 2015 cruise. We are still not happy with Celebrity. We are going on our next 2 cruises. Just because we put down a deposit does not mean we are going on the cruises we booked for 2015. 2015 might be another story. I will have to revisit my thoughts in the fall. We also have decided to fly to England for a 2 week vacation in July instead of booking a cruise.

 

I just check the website. It does show that the cost at Bistro on 5 is $5. Richard

[TheMediaman]

I believe the OP main and only point is they expected to enjoy features as advertised at time of purchase.

 

What would you do if you could make decisions on behalf of an operator? Would you compensate every passenger aboard every ship for the change of Michaels Club regardless if they were going to use the facility or not? I'm sure every business is looking for ways to increase profits but I don't think the vast majority are concocting sinister plans to liberate cash from us through deceptive strategies. No. They will do it with our full knowledge and participation through liquor sales, shore excursions and specialty dining.

 

Yes the changes have affected my upcoming trip. I do not have a promo drink package nor the perks of concierge, suite, Blu or Aqua. The drink prices have increased and the Canadian dollar has gone down.

 

Change can be difficult for both passenger and operator. Indeed negativity breeds negativity and it's not the environment I wish to participate in for an upcoming vacation. Perhaps a better approach to change is to share our cooperative experiences and tips to further improve our vacations.

 

In the end we control this business of cruising. We can choose not to go. We can choose another line. We can choose land based vacations. We can choose to look at the ocean and see calmer waters ahead instead of stormy seas.

 

We have the final say.

 

I look forward to where the ship takes me and to meeting new friends

Edited May 12, 2014 by TheMediaman

[curtdesilets]

I'm hoping that these cutbacks are occurring so that the quality elsewhere remains high. If celebrity is experiencing decreased revenues, I'd rather they cut back on little things like these than reduce the quality of overall food, entertainment, or facilities.

 

Carnival Corporation which stranded two Carnival ships in the past couple years and owns the Costa Concordia Disaster....should be concerned about decreased revenues.

 

Royal Caribbean/Celebrity should not. They seem quite profitable with no pending billion dollar plus civil actions against them (Concordia).

[curtdesilets]

If there isn't any escargot on board in Nov, I am so going to throw a hissy fit! JK. But seriously, I really hope they don't cut that back.

 

Actually... the escargot was available every night on Century in April and it was very good. One of the things they have not cut backed, to their credit.

[Cruise Junky]

Carnival Corporation which stranded two Carnival ships in the past couple years and owns the Costa Concordia Disaster....should be concerned about decreased revenues.

 

Royal Caribbean/Celebrity should not. They seem quite profitable with no pending billion dollar plus civil actions against them (Concordia).

 

Check their debt and you'll get a different picture

[The_Big_M]

I just check the website. It does show that the cost at Bistro on 5 is $5. Richard

 

I suspect they're waiting until the changes have been rolled out to Millennium.

 

(Not saying that's good, but just why they haven't done it yet.)

[cle-guy]

 

I would consider "changes" to involve give & take

 

The GIVE from celebrity was not increasing the cruise fare to keep with the rate of inflation over the years, instead they have chosen to reduce costs.

 

A cruise fare of $2000 in 1985 should be $4200 adjusted for inflation, but cabins are still $2000.

[The_Big_M]

The GIVE from celebrity was not increasing the cruise fare to keep with the rate of inflation over the years, instead they have chosen to reduce costs.

 

A cruise fare of $2000 in 1985 should be $4200 adjusted for inflation, but cabins are still $2000.

 

The realities of any competitive, unnecessary item like travel is they need to compete.

 

If Celebrity could have kept prices constant they would have. Have you checked all their competitors, and the rest of the travel industry?

 

None of their prices have kept pace with inflation either.

[NLH Arizona]

Celebrity I know you read this forum and I have a suggestion for you.

 

Put all these so called cutbacks back in place and just raise the cruise fare to everyone to cover any increases in costs, need for increased revenue, etc. That should solve the problem for everyone! I can't believe that anyone would complain if you did this, since they have been complaining about these cutbacks and they would get them all back!

 

Thank you for taking this into consideration, so that we will not have to hear any more complaints about cutbacks.

Edited May 12, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[cle-guy]

The realities of any competitive, unnecessary item like travel is they need to compete.

 

If Celebrity could have kept prices constant they would have. Have you checked all their competitors, and the rest of the travel industry?

 

None of their prices have kept pace with inflation either.

 

Very true, and al have modified perks and offerings and pricing of extras along the way as well.

 

As long as ships are sailing at capacity, as they are and continue to do, and their share prices continue to rise, as they have and are, then these reductions in perks and amenities and raise in price for extras is doing as intended, driving profits without losing any large group of travelers.

 

Until such time as people en-masse stop going on cruises this is the way it will continue. A few long-timers complaining about changes isn't even a small blip on their radar, as they look to entice new travelers into the world who don't have any knowledge of the good-old-days, like when there were chamber pots in the cabins and communal showers and people were separated by locked gates from class to class within a ship not even being allowed to use ANY common areas. or when there were no swimming pools or whirlpools.

[Big Chief]

I am somewhat confused. Is not the name of this board "cruise CRITIC", which implies an occasional negative commentary? Those who disagree with poster and say, in effect, "oh, just suck it up and enjoy your cruise", seem to accept Celebrity's lack of integrity. The terms in place when a cruise is booked should not be unilaterally changed!

Let us assume that over the next few months Celebrity institutes the following new policies on your already booked cruise; A $3 per meal MDR surcharge, a $5 a day entertainment fee, a $2 per passenger "resort fee", and a $1 tender charge (when applicable). Is the "stop complaining" position still valid? The concept is the same; you book the cruise based upon current conditions not future increases altering an agreed contract. Most of us would not accept this from any other business relationship (oops, the interest rate on your mortgage just went up or, sorry, the airline wants another $15 for your previously purchased ticket).

Simply put, Celebrity should be able to increase prices prospectively but not ex post facto. New bookings only should be subject to increases. Fair is Fair!

Edited May 12, 2014 by Big Chief

[teecee60]

A cruise fare of $2000 in 1985 should be $4200 adjusted for inflation, but cabins are still $2000.

 

Guess I can't complain AT ALL about my 15 night cruises for $449pp-$630pp...:eek: :D ;)

 

Celebrity I know you read this forum and I have a suggestion for you.

 

Put all these so called cutbacks back in place and just raise the cruise fare to everyone to cover any increases in costs, need for increased revenue, etc. That should solve the problem for everyone! I can't believe that anyone would complain if you did this, since they have been complaining about these cutbacks and they would get them all back!

 

Thank you for taking this into consideration, so that we will not have to hear any more complaints about cutbacks.

 

One basic tenant of Economics is that of substitute goods.

 

I believe you will have discovered a parallel law of substitute complaints. :cool: ;)

Edited May 12, 2014 by teecee60

[cle-guy]

I am somewhat confused. Is not the name of this board "cruise CRITIC", which implies an occasional negative commentary? Those who disagree with poster and say, in effect, "oh, just suck it up and enjoy your cruise", seem to accept Celebrity's lack of integrity. The terms in place when a cruise is booked should not be unilaterally changed!

Let us assume that over the next few months Celebrity institutes the following new policies on your already booked cruise; A $3 per meal MDR surcharge, a $5 a day entertainment fee, a $2 per passenger "resort fee", and a $1 tender charge (when applicable). Is the "stop complaining" position still valid? The concept is the same; you book the cruise based upon current conditions not future increases altering an agreed contract. Most of us would not accept this from any other business relationship (oops, the interest rate on your mortgage just went up or, sorry, the airline wants another $15 for your previously purchased ticket).

Simply put, Celebrity should be able to increase prices prospectively but not ex post facto. New bookings only should be subject to increases. Fair is Fair!

 

But for the fact that a contract was entered into whereby the cruiser accepts that X can change its offerings (and therefore the terms of the contract do in fact remain unchanged) and amenity pricing after booking (but not the cruise fare itself), I'd agree with you. Also, We can speak hypothetically about lots of things.....I really don't see them adding a $1 tender fee or MDR surcharge (although in other threads, there are many who have suggested they add $5 and enhance the experience...).

 

Credit card companies change their interest rates, they change their annual fees periodically. Homeowners insurance changes, property taxes change. Fair is fair, when I bought my house the taxes were what they were, they shouldn't be allowed to unilaterally change it...oh wait, they can because that's part of the agreement to allow rate changes - and X changes to the perks program, like Amex used to let you transfer points to United and Continental airlines, but no longer does. I'm now free to find another charge card if I want to, after I honor my agreement to pay of the card. I can choose another cruise line, after I either cancel my cruise and take the penalty agreed on if after final payment (rules vary internationally) or after I take the cruise and not pay the agreed penalty.

 

Airlines have raised baggage handling fees often giving only a few months notice when some passengers may have booked several months out. They sometimes allow a certain crossover, but there are going to be some passengers who will get bit buy the higher baggage fees based on dating and timing.

 

X having there ability to adjust pricing on amenities and onboard purchasing gives them the economic flexibility for long-term cabin bookings to be left alone, and adjust the onboard purchases and amenities as necessary to keep with current of-the-day economics and cost increases. Eggs up 10% this year, beef 12%, limes 5-fold price increases...... these cost increases have to be paid for somehow.

 

Yes we can complain and moan all we want, we are free to do so. Just don't do it expecting any result of it.

 

Contracts are contracts. We need to read AND understand them......and understand that in most instances the terms are going to be more favorable to the entity, not to us. Feel free to modify the contract and send to them to agree and initial and sign off to your corrections and modifications. Maybe they will, probably they will just say go find another cruise line, or suck it up.

[Lastdance]

Celebrity I know you read this forum and I have a suggestion for you.

 

Put all these so called cutbacks back in place and just raise the cruise fare to everyone to cover any increases in costs, need for increased revenue, etc. That should solve the problem for everyone! I can't believe that anyone would complain if you did this, since they have been complaining about these cutbacks and they would get them all back!

 

Thank you for taking this into consideration, so that we will not have to hear any more complaints about cutbacks.

 

Actually, there are those of us who won't miss the cutbacks because we just don't use or need them. My DH and I use the gym and we are anything but big drinkers...for us it is about the ports and relaxation. I guess we are just easy to please. If we have any issues at all, we take care of them by visiting the appropriate people. Even when we had to miss a port two years ago in Europe, we didn't make a fuss. However, I thoroughly understand what the poster is saying after doing her research...Only time will tell what the future brings and the cruisers will make their decisions.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Lastdance

[countingbackwards]

All this reference to a legal contract are irrelevant. The contract wasn't arrived at by my lawyers sitting across the table from Celebrity's lawyers to negotiate fair terms to a cruise. The contract has no real bearing - consumer protection laws exist precisely because of "contracts" written up like these.

 

What I am talking about here is fairness in operations. When I can no longer change my decision without consequence, but the cruise line decides to change the product that they have sold to me before it is delivered, that is simply not part of the "game".

 

Quite likely, Finance has told somebody that they need to improve the bottom line this quarter (not next quarter), so the operations guys react by making little changes to slightly increase revenue and decrease costs immediately. Thing is...there should be a guideline to this, they should not be allowed to decrease the value of my purchase between the time I buy it and the time I use it. If somebody told them that the changes can only be made and publicized 75 days out, then they would have to just have a bit more foresight and plan ahead. That is a VERY reasonable request to make of them.

 

Really, I ask those who seem to think I am making unreasonable complaints here: what is unreasonable about holding Celebrity to the same 75 day standard that we're held to?

 

I may well have made the same choice to book this cruise, but maybe not. I wouldn't advise anybody to avoid booking with Celebrity as a result of these cuts - in fact, I may be in line for my best vacation ever that will make me a long-time Celebrity customer. I'd like to keep this discussion to its main point.

 

There were some other changes made to increase pricing, such as the change in the spa stuff, but that had been publicized before final payment so I had a fair chance to consider that change and whether it was likely to impact on my vacation. That's fair game. The list of items that I posted that got cut between final payment and my cruise...that's just not fair.

I

 

 

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[NLH Arizona]

Actually, there are those of us who won't miss the cutbacks because we just don't use or need them. My DH and I use the gym and we are anything but big drinkers...for us it is about the ports and relaxation. I guess we are just easy to please. If we have any issues at all, we take care of them by visiting the appropriate people. Even when we had to miss a port two years ago in Europe, we didn't make a fuss. However, I thoroughly understand what the poster is saying after doing her research...Only time will tell what the future brings and the cruisers will make their decisions.

I'm right there with you. It doesn't matter if there is a grand buffet or Zumba by the pool to me or any of the other so called cut backs, I can always find somewhere else to eat or something to do. I just enjoy cruising and seeing new places (without having to pack and unpack everyday LOL). My point was, all of these so called cut backs have to be paid for some how. Would most be happy if their cruise fare is raised to pay for them or happier if those that want to do Zumba, drink, etc. pay additional for what they want. Edited May 12, 2014 by NLH Arizona