Ryndam Russian Roulette

[crusinbanjo]

I try not to be an alarmist, or complainer, but this has me a bit uneasy.

 

Mrs Bnjo & I boarded the Ryndam yesterday. We were pleased about the extra cleaning to get the Noro Virus under control and hopefully, with plenty of hand washing, all will be ok. What has me rattled was when we attended the mandatory life boat drill.

 

After assembling at the designated area, ii looked up to see an empty space where a lifeboat should be. There was no mention of this by the crew, no additional crew members present and seeming no changes from a standard drill, so I piped up before the group was released and asked, "where is the lifeboat"?. Other passengers thought I was joking around, so I said, it's no joke, look up!

 

The response from a very young crew member was not to worry, because in an actuall emergency, if necessary, we would be divided into smaller groups and reassigned to other lifeboats.

 

Well, with all do respect, that's a poor answer. In an actual emergency, tensions are high, people are nervous and confused and with no additional crew or drill to manage the issue this is a recipe for panic and disaster.

 

I brought this up to crew members but was given little more than lip service by customer relations. I will be speaking with officers today about this and will report back, but right now this is Russian Roulette with the lifeboats.

[ellieanne]

All the lifeboats are designed to hold more passengers than are assigned to them. Do not worry about it.

 

In the event you have to evacuate the vessel, report to your assigned muster station (under the lifeboat number on the Promenade/Boat Deck) and the staff will direct you to another lifeboat.

 

I know it's distressing, but really, everything is under control. It really is not an issue. Sorry, but you're making an issue out of nothing, which is why the staff are giving you little more than what you consider lip service. There are plans in place in the event a lifeboat is unusable for whatever reason. Several staff have told it's not a problem, and you don't believe them? So you are going to bother officers with this? You are going too get the same answer from the officers.

Edited July 5, 2015 by ellieanne

[philsuarez]

Keep us updated if possible especially with any sickness related tales. Hopefully the deep clean has sorted. We are boarding upon your return on 18/07

[Krazy Kruizers]

Do keep us updated on what happened to the lifeboat.

You can be certain that in the case of an emergency everyone will be taken care of.

They also have quite a few of those portable lifeboats that are used mainly for the crew but can be used for passengers.

[crusinbanjo]

All the lifeboats are designed to hold more passengers than are assigned to them. Do not worry about it.

 

In the event you have to evacuate the vessel, report to your assigned muster station (under the lifeboat number on the Promenade/Boat Deck) and the staff will direct you to another lifeboat.

 

I know it's distressing, but really, everything is under control. It really is not an issue. Sorry, but you're making an issue out of nothing, which is why the staff are giving you little more than what you consider lip service. There are plans in place in the event a lifeboat is unusable for whatever reason. Several staff have told it's not a problem, and you don't believe them? So you are going to bother officers with this? You are going too get the same answer from the officers.

 

I know what you are saying, and I know the chances are small that any incident will happen, and I know the senior staff must have some plans......... But, I have been in situations before that required moving people from place to place when they don't expect it, and still in an orderly fashion. That is when problems start. If the crew knew the boat would be gone, it seems to me that, at th very least, the muster drill would include a briefing on what the process would be. That didn't happen, and they would not have even mentioned it if I didn't bring it up.

 

In any case, they reassigned Mrs Banjo and myself to an alternate station. For us case closed. We are enjoying the cruise with a better piece of mind.

[Ryten]

Was on the TA back in april/May and one of the Ryndam's lifeboats was left in Horta when the lifting gear failed while they were doing some training. The plan was to send it to Spain (cadiz) on a container ship. Not sure if that happened or this is the same space that was vacated back then. In any event the Captain assured us as to the continuing safety without the one lifeboat. There is truly nothing to worry about or the ship would not have been cleared to sail at any visiting port.

[JayS]

Was on the TA back in april/May and one of the Ryndam's lifeboats was left in Horta when the lifting gear failed while they were doing some training. The plan was to send it to Spain (cadiz) on a container ship. Not sure if that happened or this is the same space that was vacated back then. In any event the Captain assured us as to the continuing safety without the one lifeboat. There is truly nothing to worry about or the ship would not have been cleared to sail at any visiting port.

I was on the TA with Ryten and the B2B Iberia Cruise. The #8 (MY) lifeboat did not show up. I wonder if the boat the OP is talking about is the same.

I took this picture and walked away. It is the boat that later fell.

[cb at sea]

I'm never completely comfortable with the lifeboat thing...if the ship should list, it's difficult to deploy the lifeboats...having one missing would make me nervous, too!

 

And don't say "You'll be taken care of..."we all saw how the passengers were taken care of on the Concordia...not saying HAL would be that callous, but you never know how folks will react in a life-threatening emergency.

Edited July 5, 2015 by cb at sea

[sppunk]

HAL is one of the few lines that even does muster on deck, many lines do them in lounges.

 

I'd not fret one sec about this.

[Despegue]

I try not to be an alarmist, or complainer, but this has me a bit uneasy.

 

Mrs Bnjo & I boarded the Ryndam yesterday. We were pleased about the extra cleaning to get the Noro Virus under control and hopefully, with plenty of hand washing, all will be ok. What has me rattled was when we attended the mandatory life boat drill.

 

After assembling at the designated area, ii looked up to see an empty space where a lifeboat should be. There was no mention of this by the crew, no additional crew members present and seeming no changes from a standard drill, so I piped up before the group was released and asked, "where is the lifeboat"?. Other passengers thought I was joking around, so I said, it's no joke, look up!

 

The response from a very young crew member was not to worry, because in an actuall emergency, if necessary, we would be divided into smaller groups and reassigned to other lifeboats.

 

Well, with all do respect, that's a poor answer. In an actual emergency, tensions are high, people are nervous and confused and with no additional crew or drill to manage the issue this is a recipe for panic and disaster.

 

I brought this up to crew members but was given little more than lip service by customer relations. I will be speaking with officers today about this and will report back, but right now this is Russian Roulette with the lifeboats.

 

 

I understand your concern, however, an Assembly station has in reality no formal connection to any lifeboat/raft.

 

The crewmember was absolutely right.

In case of a real emergency, based on the actual condition of the ship and threat, you will be guided from your assembly station to whatever lifeboat/raft is suitable to get you into safety.

This might be a lifeboat in a completely different area.

 

Some lines, including Celebrity, for example have their Assembly stations not even near the lifeboats, but protected from the elements, inside. ( eg. Show lounge or dining room).

I would appreciate that you remove your post or at least change the title as it is falsely accusing HAL of not following SOLAS regulations.

 

Best regards,

 

Despegue

Captain ( not with HAL)

[take us away]

If you noticed, each life boat is designated for something like 125 passengers. On our last cruise, someone asked a senior officer about the life boats and we were told that the allocation of passengers for a life boat is about 100 people plus a few crew so there is extra room for additional passengers.

 

All should be good - plus the Coast Guard would never allow the sailing if there was not adequate life boat space.

[igraf]

I would argue the other way. It is common for lifeboats to fail to launch during actual sinkings (Costa Concordia is a recent example), so extra capacity is not really surplus capacity. I agree with the concerns of the OP and would not be so quick to dismiss the issue.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

All the lifeboats are designed to hold more passengers than are assigned to them. Do not worry about it.

 

In the event you have to evacuate the vessel, report to your assigned muster station (under the lifeboat number on the Promenade/Boat Deck) and the staff will direct you to another lifeboat.

 

I know it's distressing, but really, everything is under control. It really is not an issue. Sorry, but you're making an issue out of nothing, which is why the staff are giving you little more than what you consider lip service. There are plans in place in the event a lifeboat is unusable for whatever reason. Several staff have told it's not a problem, and you don't believe them? So you are going to bother officers with this? You are going too get the same answer from the officers.

[retafcruiser]

We were pleased about the extra cleaning to get the Noro Virus under control and hopefully, with plenty of hand washing, all will be ok. What has me rattled was when we attended the mandatory life boat drill.

 

I wonder if they deep clean the life boats. It would be rather unpleasant for an outbreak while awaiting rescue in one :rolleyes:

[Fouremco]

Operating without a lifeboat is not uncommon and not something to worry about. There is a lot of redundancy built into the allocation of lifeboats, and several could be lost before things started to become crowded.

 

As for the redistribution of passengers to other lifeboats, this is an integral part of safety planning and training. If there was ever a serious fire in the vicinity of one or more of the lifeboats, sufficient for the call to abandon ship, the passengers would obviously need to be redistributed. This isn't a spur of the moment, "what should we do now???" situation, but a well rehearsed training scenario.

 

The crew member that you asked had it right.

[ellieanne]

I would argue the other way. It is common for lifeboats to fail to launch during actual sinkings (Costa Concordia is a recent example), so extra capacity is not really surplus capacity. I agree with the concerns of the OP and would not be so quick to dismiss the issue.

 

igraf

 

The Costa Concordia was a completely different situation and without saying too much, from people in the industry I know and that the safety of that line is not up to HAL's standards.

 

Also, from people who actually work on HAL ships, there are more than enough lifeboat space for all the passengers in the event the ship has to be evacuated. Even if it means using the inflatable life rafts for passengers.

 

From my own personal experience watching emergency drills (held when most passengers are ashore), I know HAL drills all kinds of possible situations and several times I know at least half of the lifeboats were unavailable for use in an evacuation situation. They know what they're doing and everyone knows what to do in case something is different from the way passengers rehearsed it in lifeboat drill.

[Aquahound]

All the lifeboats are designed to hold more passengers than are assigned to them. Do not worry about it.

 

No, not really. Lifeboat capacity is lifeboat capacity. Period. In fact, with a lifeboat missing, I'm really curious if Ryndam is doing the right thing and sailing at the lower passenger rate to meet the lower lifeboat capacity.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Aquahound

[ellieanne]

No, not really. Lifeboat capacity is lifeboat capacity. Period. In fact, with a lifeboat missing, I'm really curious if Ryndam is doing the right thing and sailing at the lower passenger rate to meet the lower lifeboat capacity.

 

Yes, lifeboat capacity is lifeboat capacity, but the number of passengers assigned to each lifeboat for evacuation purposes is actually less than the maximum capacity of the lifeboat. So there is "butt-space" available to move passengers from one lifeboat to another if needed. Next time you're on a lifeboat tender, count the "butt spaces." It's far, far more than you think, and more than enough to evacuate all the passengers should the need arise.

 

Also, it may be the lifeboat will re-join the ship after it sailed.

[sppunk]

No, not really. Lifeboat capacity is lifeboat capacity. Period. In fact, with a lifeboat missing, I'm really curious if Ryndam is doing the right thing and sailing at the lower passenger rate to meet the lower lifeboat capacity.

 

Including rafts, there is something like 25 percent excess of space when all boats are launched. Sailing minus one does not negate that 25 percent.

 

Copper 10-8 would be the expert to set everyone straight, though he might not feel comfortable (which would be completely understandable) doing so specifically. :)

[Aquahound]

Yes, lifeboat capacity is lifeboat capacity, but the number of passengers assigned to each lifeboat for evacuation purposes is actually less than the maximum capacity of the lifeboat. So there is "butt-space" available to move passengers from one lifeboat to another if needed. Next time you're on a lifeboat tender, count the "butt spaces." It's far, far more than you think, and more than enough to evacuate all the passengers should the need arise.

 

Also, it may be the lifeboat will re-join the ship after it sailed.

 

I am aware of that. (I'm USCG by the way ;)) Each lifeboat has a tender capacity and a lifeboat capacity.

 

An example of what I'm talking about. Oasis of the Seas has a lifeboat capacity of around 6600 (thereabouts). On her initial crossing, she hit 45' seas and the forward lifeboats were heavily damaged. For several months, until those lifeboats were fixed and modifications were made to the hull to protect them, OAS had to limit passenger numbers to around 5900 (thereabouts).

 

I'm fairly certain HAL isn't doing anything negligent, but something like a missing lifeboat is still something that raises my eyebrows. To clarify...it just makes me wonder what, if any, passenger modifications they had to make.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Aquahound

[Fouremco]

All the lifeboats are designed to hold more passengers than are assigned to them. Do not worry about it.

 

No, not really. Lifeboat capacity is lifeboat capacity. Period. In fact, with a lifeboat missing, I'm really curious if Ryndam is doing the right thing and sailing at the lower passenger rate to meet the lower lifeboat capacity.

No, ellieanne has it right. You are confusing the number of passengers and crew normally assigned to a boat with the actual capacity, which is quite a bit higher.

[Aquahound]

No, ellieanne has it right. You are confusing the number of passengers and crew normally assigned to a boat with the actual capacity, which is quite a bit higher.

 

Hopefully my last post clarified a little better what I was talking about. :)

[Fouremco]

Hopefully my last post clarified a little better what I was talking about. :)

SOLAS, CLIA, USCG and other national and international bodies have enacted requirements dictating that there must be sufficient lifeboat space for passengers and crew. HAL would be in very serious trouble if it was found to be in violation of the governing safety regulations.

 

HAL is well aware of its passenger and crew load, and the capacity of its lifeboats, and would not allow the Ryndam to sail with a full complement if the loss of that one lifeboat brought them below the capacity requirement. As others have pointed out, HAL and other lines have built in redundancy to ensure that they still meet the requirements when a lifeboat or tender needs repairs that can't be handled on board.

[durangoscots]

On a world cruise several years ago we lost a life boat at Easter Island when it got a hole punctured into on side. Those of us who were assigned to that life boat were reassigned to others since that one would be out of commission for some little while. Remember that not only is there extra space in any assigned life boat ... but most ships are not sailing a full capacity ... that is all staterooms may be filled but there will be some which carry singles rather than couples so there is also additional room.

 

Susan

[Aquahound]

SOLAS, CLIA, USCG and other national and international bodies have enacted requirements dictating that there must be sufficient lifeboat space for passengers and crew. HAL would be in very serious trouble if it was found to be in violation of the governing safety regulations.

 

HAL is well aware of its passenger and crew load, and the capacity of its lifeboats, and would not allow the Ryndam to sail with a full complement if the loss of that one lifeboat brought them below the capacity requirement. As others have pointed out, HAL and other lines have built in redundancy to ensure that they still meet the requirements when a lifeboat or tender needs repairs that can't be handled on board.

 

Yes, again, you're not saying anything I don't have extensive experience with. 22 years in the USCG here. All I was saying is I wonder if Ryndam had to make any modifications to their reservations wrt passengers. That's all.

[ellieanne]

Yes, again, you're not saying anything I don't have extensive experience with. 22 years in the USCG here. All I was saying is I wonder if Ryndam had to make any modifications to their reservations wrt passengers. That's all.

 

They may not have had to. They may not have been sailing at a capacity that would have made any modifications necessary.

 

But either way, that's not a question most people reading this message board thread can answer. Maybe the original poster could if he wanted to ask about it.