Celebrity Reflection 11 Night Eastern Mediterranean No Istanbul

[quiltingdiva]

I am on the Oct 12 Reflection cruise and have been watching for changes.

 

I do not see any itinerary changes in the X website for either the Sept 21 or the Oct 12 cruise yet.

 

Has anyone on the Sept 21 cruise been officially notified of a change yet?

 

I'm on the 9/21 cruise. I haven't heard anything yet, and no one on our roll call has indicated that they've been notified.

[luv2cruisecats]

I suspect the Turkish leaders will take steps to reduce the concerns that have caused various cruise lines to change itineraries. We will depart Istanbul next Oct. 2016 on the Constellation and it looks like Turkish Air is a good choice; this is a subsidized national carrier and you can imagine the change in revenue if it is dropped as an embarkation port. I hope it is not.

 

Tourism is being strongly encouraged by the Turkish government. My guess is that before the end of the year these protests will be forced to "go away" no matter who wins the election there. Fingers crossed...

[cle-guy]

Finally, given the ongoing issue of missing ports for any number of issues, including weather, mechanical breakdown etc., the old rule still holds. If it's really important to visit a particular city, a land visit, including pre and post cruise options , may be your best option.

 

This should be Cruising 101 - never book a cruise if destinations and ports are of paramount importance. They should always be considered as side items to the Ship,

[dabear]

This should be Cruising 101 - never book a cruise if destinations and ports are of paramount importance. They should always be considered as side items to the Ship,

 

IMHO I disagree with you. We've always started with destinations first, then look at our choice of ships & cruise lines. Cruising & Travel100

 

BTW, have any of the cruise lines also cancelled stops at Kusadasi?

[MarkusToe]

as a example: german federal foreign office said

 

In Istanbul kam es im August 2015 zu mehreren terroristischen Anschlägen.

Bei einem Bombenanschlag auf eine Polizeistation in Istanbul am 10.08.2015 gab es mehrere Tote und Verletzte. Am gleichen Tag wurde auf Polizisten vor dem Generalkonsulat der Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika in Istanbul geschossen. Am 19.08.2015 kam es bei einem Polizeieinsatz vor dem Dolmabahce-Palast in Istanbul zu einem Schusswechsel.

Bei Reisen nach Istanbul wird zu erhöhter Vorsicht geraten.

Reisenden wird empfohlen, die Anwesenheit an belebten Plätzen im innerstädtischen Bereich und in Verkehrsmitteln des öffentlichen Personennah- und Fernverkehrs auf das erforderliche Maß einzuschränken sowie Regierungs- und Militäreinrichtungen zu meiden. Auch bei Reisen über Land wird zu besonderer Umsicht und Vorsicht geraten.

 

 

traveling to Istanbul will fall to increased caution .

this is a very strong advice from our government : do not go there.....

 

[cle-guy]

IMHO I disagree with you. We've always started with destinations first, then look at our choice of ships & cruise lines. Cruising & Travel100

 

 

My point is, if you were to read the contract they don't guarantee any ports of call, just transport from A to B. No compensation or anything is due for such changes, though they do refund port fees for missed ports.

 

Using itineraries as a general guide to where to board and get off the ship is a good thing, and plans should be made around visits at the embarkation and disembarkation points, but in stops in the middle, need to be well known are subject to change at any time.

 

Cruises are primarily a mode of transportation from A to B (ofter A to A), and plan to make stops at C, D E and F along the way, but may not actually do that.

 

Anyone for example who has booked these itineraries for the overnights specifically, is now being disappointed, and missing seeing these sights, so their trip is ruined. Many new cruisers (and a fair number of regulars) don't understand that ports can and do change and cancel more than we think.

 

I've read stories of people planning fabulous destination wedding, and expecting to be transported by ship, to find that calls in Grand Cayman are canceled due to high winds, so wedding party on ship, family and friends at land hotel, with no wedding to see, and an expensive non-refundable wedding down the tubes. Wonder how the wedding cake tasted...

 

Or Century's final sailing, was to transit Suez Canal, well it changed to go to Asia instead. SO anyone who booked specifically to transit Suez was SOL.

 

I got caught up in doing a Transatlantic, I wanted to see the pope speak and booked it specifically to do that. Well surprise, got there, and we didn't arrive in time to get there before security shut down the square. I even had a Celebrity Excursion booked, to get a voicemail night before saying the square would be shut down by the time we got there, so we were going to Trevi Fountain instead. Now I have to go back someday, but luckily, I book for the ship not ports, so it was part of the game.

[dabear]

I fully understand that the contracts permit changes in itinerary but your initial post was not clear that is what you were referring to. We've experienced last minute changes (e.g. canceling 2 nights in Egypt in early 2011,when disturbances started), but either reading the contract or having a good ta should explain this, especially for first time cruisers. Perhaps another reason the pax should understand the benefits and detriments of not using a good ta.

[nordski]

I suspect the Turkish leaders will take steps to reduce the concerns that have caused various cruise lines to change itineraries. We will depart Istanbul next Oct. 2016 on the Constellation and it looks like Turkish Air is a good choice; this is a subsidized national carrier and you can imagine the change in revenue if it is dropped as an embarkation port. I hope it is not.

 

 

 

Tourism is being strongly encouraged by the Turkish government. My guess is that before the end of the year these protests will be forced to "go away" no matter who wins the election there. Fingers crossed...

 

 

I certainly hope you are correct.

 

Unfortunately, I can imagine other motives. For example, President Erdogan wishes to consolidate power in the President's office. A problem with state security might well serve this interest.

 

However, perhaps I'm being far too cynical about him, although I must say some residents of Istanbul share my cynicism.

 

We will also be in Istanbul in October, and your scenario would certainly suit us best, so I certainly won't complain about being wrong :).

[leleroma]

the cruise with celebrity reflection that departs from Rome with only Greek Islands, was more cheaper than the cruise that includes istanbul. But now with istanbul cancelled, we paid more for nothing...

[Evangaline]

as a example: german federal foreign office said

 

In Istanbul kam es im August 2015 zu mehreren terroristischen Anschlägen.

Bei einem Bombenanschlag auf eine Polizeistation in Istanbul am 10.08.2015 gab es mehrere Tote und Verletzte. Am gleichen Tag wurde auf Polizisten vor dem Generalkonsulat der Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika in Istanbul geschossen. Am 19.08.2015 kam es bei einem Polizeieinsatz vor dem Dolmabahce-Palast in Istanbul zu einem Schusswechsel.

Bei Reisen nach Istanbul wird zu erhöhter Vorsicht geraten.

Reisenden wird empfohlen, die Anwesenheit an belebten Plätzen im innerstädtischen Bereich und in Verkehrsmitteln des öffentlichen Personennah- und Fernverkehrs auf das erforderliche Maß einzuschränken sowie Regierungs- und Militäreinrichtungen zu meiden. Auch bei Reisen über Land wird zu besonderer Umsicht und Vorsicht geraten.

 

 

traveling to Istanbul will fall to increased caution .

this is a very strong advice from our government : do not go there.....

 

 

Canada's advisory has not changed in some time. The advisory remains regional only, like Mexico. The Turkey one is for the border with Syria. For Turkey generally, it is to "exercise a high degree of caution" same as a long list of countries including Jamaica where we spent our winter beach vacation.

[LA_Design]

I fully understand that the contracts permit changes in itinerary but your initial post was not clear that is what you were referring to. We've experienced last minute changes (e.g. canceling 2 nights in Egypt in early 2011,when disturbances started), but either reading the contract or having a good ta should explain this, especially for first time cruisers. Perhaps another reason the pax should understand the benefits and detriments of not using a good ta.

 

 

Perhaps posters could refrain from quoting 'Contract Law' In this forum as it can be misleading.

 

I understand that in the USA , and possibly other countries that the Celebrity Contract permits various things including itinerary changes. Indeed one poster was sure all the boat needed to do was leave Miami then lurk around the sea for the duration and there is nothing a passenger can do about it. This may well be the case in the USA

 

However in UK/ Europe the contract / terms & conditions do not wash with the Courts. In a nutshell a Company cannot act in what the Courts deem to be an unreasonable manner. Believe me the Courts definition of unreasonable will astound our friends across the pond.

 

As an example I chose to book my upcoming Caribbean cruise via a US TA. The itinerary has changed ( as many will know) to allow overnights in Curacao. I have no real issue with the change and also knew my rights fall under US jurisdiction. I know for certain that had I booked this in the UK and had booked flights etc then Celeb. could easily be forced to compensate me. Mind you I would have paid a lot more for the same boat trip [emoji12]

 

In summary the 'contract ' appears to be binding in the US( North America ?) however it is almost worthless over in Europe. Perhaps as there is a mix on the Forum we should agree not to quote contracts or legal rights as they are so different ?

[Pushka]

Sure. Agree they can change itinerary. But cruising for the ports is a major determinant of the cruise I pick.

[chebumosqui]

Personally we support Celebrity's decision, and we haven't even waited and changed a couple of days ago our Oct 12th departing from Istanbul to Greek Islands one.

We love Istanbul, but don't consider this as overreaction, especially taking into account the last incident and coming elections in November... we will for sure (and unfortunately) hear of more incidents over there...

And totally understand disappointment of those who booked the cruise because of Istanbul - we were in a same situation a couple of years ago, when were on Holy Land cruise: all Israel ports (3 port days) were cancelled when we were already on board... With all the private arrangements... and in generally going to Holy Land cruise without visiting the actual Holy Land... :( But well, no complains on the other hand as we went to Istanbul instead :) So just enjoy your new itinerary the most!

 

I booked this cruise 9 months ago for, to, by, because, and only the ISTANBUL overnight. My first time there, and now it looks I won't make it. Some say security is a priority, and we should feel good that X is showing the highest level of responsibility for its customers and ships, BUT, cancelling Istanbul is not a proportionate action if we compare against other cities. Then RCI, and other cruise lines should cancel NY/NJ, Haifa, Sochi...

Just out of curiosity :D - why do you think Sochi would need to be cancelled? :rolleyes:

[WpgCruise]

 

I understand that in the USA , and possibly other countries that the Celebrity Contract permits various things including itinerary changes. Indeed one poster was sure all the boat needed to do was leave Miami then lurk around the sea for the duration and there is nothing a passenger can do about it. This may well be the case in the USA

 

However in UK/ Europe the contract / terms & conditions do not wash with the Courts. In a nutshell a Company cannot act in what the Courts deem to be an unreasonable manner. Believe me the Courts definition of unreasonable will astound our friends across the pond.

 

As an example I chose to book my upcoming Caribbean cruise via a US TA. The itinerary has changed ( as many will know) to allow overnights in Curacao. I have no real issue with the change and also knew my rights fall under US jurisdiction. I know for certain that had I booked this in the UK and had booked flights etc then Celeb. could easily be forced to compensate me. Mind you I would have paid a lot more for the same

 

And this I suspect would go a long way to explain why many cruises booked in your jurisdiction are priced differently than those priced in North America.

 

The cruise companies have a higher risk cost and it is passed to the consumer.

[singlegrandma2]

I doubt the contract has much to do with any of this if they are cancelling for our safety. I believe that does not constitute unreasonable..... I hope they cancel Istanbul....at least the overnight as I don't think it is worth the risk. But is so frustrating that they won't tell us until close to sail time.

[cruise kitty]

This should be Cruising 101 - never book a cruise if destinations and ports are of paramount importance. They should always be considered as side items to the Ship,

 

I cruise for the ports & only for the ports, that said, we've missed ports on every Europe cruise we've taken, due to weather. I understand that can happen, bad weather, a ship break down, but in this case, a knee jerk reaction to pull a port that many would have booked specifically to visit, bad business in my opinion.

 

I get Celebrity's right to pull a port, but in this case, it comes across as a move that was made with no real understanding of the current situation there... is Fox news running Celebrity now?

[Scrappytraveller]

is Fox news running Celebrity now?

 

 

Ha! Spot on!

 

I know it'll never happen but wish they'd send their booked passengers a survey asking if we still feel safe in Istanbul and want to keep our overnights. I bet a majority would vote yes, especially if a lot of passengers are from that side of the pond.

[cruiserchuck]

Out of curiosity, I went to Celebrity's UK website to look at the language regarding changes. The language is set forth below. Although it appears that UK customers have more rights than US customers under certain circumstances, they do not appear to have more rights here, since the changes that have been made appear to fall under the definition of a minor change.

 

 

5.5 Can you change or cancel my holiday?

Occasionally, we have to make changes to the website and other details both before, and after, bookings have been confirmed and, even more rarely, cancel confirmed bookings. There may be a requirement to carry out maintenance/ building works on your cruise. Where the works are likely to seriously impair your holiday, we will notify you as soon as possible. Occasionally we may also be forced to cancel a U.S. back to back cruise due to local legal restrictions preventing us from allowing you to travel on this basis but will endeavour to advise you promptly after making such a booking if this is necessary (see Before You Sail, What about Consecutive Cruises?). Whilst we always endeavour to avoid changes and cancellations, we must reserve the right to do so. If we have to make a significant change or cancel, we will tell you as soon as possible. If there is time to do so before departure, we will offer you the choice of the following options:-

 

(a) (for significant changes) accepting the changed arrangements or

 

(b) purchasing an alternative holiday from us, of a similar standard to that originally booked if available. We will offer you at least one alternative holiday of equivalent or higher standard for which you will not be asked to pay any more than the price of the original holiday. If this holiday is in fact cheaper than the original one, we will refund the price difference. If you do not wish to accept the holiday we specifically offer you, you may choose any of our other then available holidays. You must pay the applicable price of any such holiday. This will mean you paying more if it is more expensive or receiving a refund if it is cheaper.

 

© cancelling or accepting the cancellation in which case you will receive a full and quick refund of all monies you have paid to us.

 

Please note, the above options are not available where any change made is a minor one. What is a significant change? A significant change is a change to your confirmed holiday, which we can reasonably expect will have a significant effect on it. Examples of significant and minor (defined below) changes are as follows: Significant change: Examples include a change from two days port of calls to two days sailing instead; a change in UK departure airport (excluding changes between local airports) and a change in the time of your outbound flight by more than 12 hours on a 14 night holiday. Minor change: Examples include a change from one port of call to another; a change from one day’s port of call to one days sailing; a change in timings for any port(s) of call but the ship still calls at all confirmed ports; a change in order of ports that are visited; and a change in the time of your departure or return flight that is less than 12 hours on a 14 night holiday. Very rarely, we may be forced by “force majeure” (see section 5.10) to change or terminate your holiday after departure but before the scheduled end of your time away. This is extremely unlikely but if this situation does occur, we regret we will be unable to make any refunds (unless we obtain any refunds from our suppliers), pay you any compensation or meet any costs or expenses you incur as a result.

[Pipo]

Personally we support Celebrity's decision, and we haven't even waited and changed a couple of days ago our Oct 12th departing from Istanbul to Greek Islands one.

We love Istanbul, but don't consider this as overreaction, especially taking into account the last incident and coming elections in November... we will for sure (and unfortunately) hear of more incidents over there...

And totally understand disappointment of those who booked the cruise because of Istanbul - we were in a same situation a couple of years ago, when were on Holy Land cruise: all Israel ports (3 port days) were cancelled when we were already on board... With all the private arrangements... and in generally going to Holy Land cruise without visiting the actual Holy Land... :( But well, no complains on the other hand as we went to Istanbul instead :) So just enjoy your new itinerary the most!

 

Just out of curiosity :D - why do you think Sochi would need to be cancelled? :rolleyes:

 

Because of this: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/02/explained-are-terrorist-about-attack-sochi-olympics

 

Very close to a region that is rebel to Moscow.

[Pipo]

I cruise for the ports & only for the ports, that said, we've missed ports on every Europe cruise we've taken, due to weather. I understand that can happen, bad weather, a ship break down, but in this case, a knee jerk reaction to pull a port that many would have booked specifically to visit, bad business in my opinion.

 

I get Celebrity's right to pull a port, but in this case, it comes across as a move that was made with no real understanding of the current situation there... is Fox news running Celebrity now?

 

I totally agree. Look at Oceania, the Riviera maintain its Istanbul overnights. What information Celebrity has that the others don't? If there is a threat, why they don't share it? Definitely somebody in Miami is doing 'Space Shuttle' security assessments for cruises.

[cle-guy]

Ha! Spot on!

 

I know it'll never happen but wish they'd send their booked passengers a survey asking if we still feel safe in Istanbul and want to keep our overnights. I bet a majority would vote yes, especially if a lot of passengers are from that side of the pond.

 

A corporation can not be expected to gamble the life of even 1 human being based on "majority rules".

 

Can you imagine the press if they did send a survey out, and something still happened while in port? They would be shredded to bits, and be sued for failing to make reasonable precautions, and not taking any action to limit liability.

 

Limiting the time a ship is in port (i.e. not overnighting, only staying for a few hours during day time), IS a reasonable precaution.

 

We also don't know that we have all the facts. Perhaps there has been some secret threat against ships or something, that the general public has not been alerted to. We just never know 100% of what is happening.

Edited August 28, 2015 by cle-guy

[twocruisers-2]

donnellyk

Where do you see a change for Sept 21 cruise itinerary? I don't see anything changed yet. I am planning private excursions for 24 so really wanting a heads up so I can start making changes......

 

Check Celebrity UK website, it shows the change in itinerary for Sept. 21 cruise.

[Cruiseline Virgin]

Equinox September 19th, still show 2 days Istanbul, so no changes so far, I keep the fingers crossed for those who fly in on embarkation day.

 

For us it does not really matter as we will fly in on the 17th anyway

[cruisemom42]

My point is, if you were to read the contract they don't guarantee any ports of call, just transport from A to B. No compensation or anything is due for such changes, though they do refund port fees for missed ports.

 

Using itineraries as a general guide to where to board and get off the ship is a good thing, and plans should be made around visits at the embarkation and disembarkation points, but in stops in the middle, need to be well known are subject to change at any time.

 

Cruises are primarily a mode of transportation from A to B (ofter A to A), and plan to make stops at C, D E and F along the way, but may not actually do that.

 

 

While I get what the contract says, and have been on my fair share of cruises with itinerary changes and/or missed ports, methinks you are overselling the case a bit.

 

Cruise lines are not simply selling a trip from point A to point B: that is what an ocean liner does. Any marketing for cruises prominently features the ports visited. Cruise lines themselves tacitly admit this is true by often offering some type of compensation when ports are missed -- not always, but often, and especially if the port is viewed as a key part of the itinerary.

 

What I think a more accurate statement is, in regards to cruising: If you are overwhelmingly fixated on ONE particular port on a cruise, then you may be better off with a land trip. But if you are cruising for the ports AS A WHOLE on a particular itinerary, then a cruise is a good choice.

 

Now if I book an Eastern Med itinerary and I get a Western Med itinerary, I think there is legitimate cause for complaint (and probably a refund).

[cle-guy]

While I get what the contract says, and have been on my fair share of cruises with itinerary changes and/or missed ports, methinks you are overselling the case a bit.

 

Cruise lines are not simply selling a trip from point A to point B: that is what an ocean liner does. Any marketing for cruises prominently features the ports visited. Cruise lines themselves tacitly admit this is true by often offering some type of compensation when ports are missed -- not always, but often, and especially if the port is viewed as a key part of the itinerary.

 

What I think a more accurate statement is, in regards to cruising: If you are overwhelmingly fixated on ONE particular port on a cruise, then you may be better off with a land trip. But if you are cruising for the ports AS A WHOLE on a particular itinerary, then a cruise is a good choice.

 

Now if I book an Eastern Med itinerary and I get a Western Med itinerary, I think there is legitimate cause for complaint (and probably a refund).

 

We can make up whatever rules we went to to make ourselves feel better, but bottom line, it falls to the contract and what is written. We can be upset even, but we can only expo the words of the contracts we agreed to to determine any compensation in those cases.

 

IN the UK, they do get some better protection, due to the laws their government has enacted to protect the consumer in the case of multiple missed stops, for that privilege, they also tend to pay higher cruise fares.

 

If you book from the US, and they change from east to west but you get on the ship where they initially told you to, you are SOL unless you cancel, they can even just go sit out int he ocean for a week if they want to, probably even stay docked. If after final payments, you better have cancel for any reason insurance.

 

In the UK, however, they do have the right to cancel and refund.

 

Last year was the Broadway and Beaches transatlantic crossing, to include Bermuda for 2 days. They changed that, and it was no longer a "beaches" crusie at all.