Why Do Supersized ships Stay Away From Storms???

[chengkp75]

A cruise ship

is not

 

an ocean liner.

 

.....the QE2 is an

 

ocean

liner.

 

The storm was......

 

predicted.......

 

And a container ship is not an ocean liner, nor is a tanker an ocean liner, and I would bet that there were several out there that weathered the storm just as well as Anthem. There is nothing "holy" about being an "ocean liner". I seem to remember a voyage by the QE2 back in the '70's or '80's where she broke a stabilizer in a storm.

[papaflamingo]

Try to get some facts, Jack, and some knowledge of the area you are arguing about before engaging the keyboard.

 

Chengkp thank you for a most professional and informative analysis. I am former Coast Guard but I was an aviator so I avoided "ship design" knowledge. But I can tell you about airplanes. :)

Anyway, I, too, get frustrated by all the self appointed "experts" that seem to come out of the woodwork on any incident. You can only imagine how much I yell at the TV when an airline incident occurs and the "experts" show up on CNN or Fox. I'm glad you laid it out in real terms. Thanks for your posts. The OP can now go back to get more predictions and "analysis" from our "expertly informed" news media. :)

[NIATPAC29]

The horse is dead. Stop the beating! :p:D

 

Oh no the horse is still alive. The whole story has yet to be told

[NurseDave]

I won't quote the OP, because the post would be way too long, but I'll try to cover the salient points.

 

I love this guy

[Pyrate13]

Once again we can thank chengkp75 with his experience and training providing the true information, as opposed to an armchair expert of unknown credentials providing what may well be dubious information at best.

 

Luddite, well done imitation, love the sarcasm. :D

[wwcruisers]

Chengkp thank you for a most professional and informative analysis. I am former Coast Guard but I was an aviator so I avoided "ship design" knowledge. But I can tell you about airplanes. :)

Anyway, I, too, get frustrated by all the self appointed "experts" that seem to come out of the woodwork on any incident.

 

Once again we can thank chengkp75 with his experience and training providing the true information, as opposed to an armchair expert of unknown credentials providing what may well be dubious information at best.

 

I would like to add my vote for Chengkp75 as one of the most informed (and patient) posters on these boards. Whenever these threads about a problem at sea pop up, I find myself scrolling through the pages of armchair-quarterbacks, just to find and read Chengkp's posts -- to get the real scoop. So, thanks for braving the stormy waters of these boards to make sure that accurate information is out there, Chengkp! :cool:

[Bevv]

Hello again folks,

 

Don't mean to preach but just call me MR. Cruise... lol

 

I hope all the cruise lines will take this as a lesson as to the Anthem event.

 

I hope that safety will surpass greed.

 

I hope that cruise lines will stop giving cash bonuses to

 

Captains that speed at 21 knots in flat seas and make folks

 

sick to get a little cash.

 

I hope that a Captain can get to a Port an Hour later than planned

 

and not make the "Home" office happy.

 

Just a few thoughts.

 

May your Seas Be Flat,

And your Tummies be fat...

 

We are the Moore's

Tampa Bay :)

 

Since you feel this way speak with your checkbook and not with your keyboard... don't cruise. Find a vacation plan that fits your needs.

[sparks1093]

Oh no the horse is still alive. The whole story has yet to be told

 

You are right, the whole story will be when the Captain is exonerated. Unfortunately by the time that happens no one will care any longer.

[iheartbda]

Of all the craziness that has been posted on numerous threads about the Anthem, this one deserves a special award.

 

Chengkp75, and you deserve a REAL award for your knowledge and above all, patience, in dealing with all the craziness.:)

 

[Bevv]

http://www.answers.com/Q/Is_al_roker_an_actual_meteorologist

 

Al Roker is a "weatherman", not a meteorologist. In the past, he has had an American Meteorology Society Seal of Approval - frequently given to a Weatherman or, the gender-neutral "Weather Anchor", who have no formal schooling in Meteorology.

[NurseDave]

You are right, the whole story will be when the Captain is exonerated. Unfortunately by the time that happens no one will care any longer.

 

I'll just summarized the next few posts about this so they don't have to be made.

 

Oh nuh uh

Oh yes sir

Did not

Did so

Did not

I know you are but what am I?

[navybankerteacher]

NEWS-FLASH for OP: It's not just "super-sized" ships which stay away from storms.

 

In fact, when there are strong breezes which would hardly be noticed on one of today's cruise ships, small craft warnings are posted -- so the little guys pay attention too. I admit this is obvious: but considering much of what OP had to say, it appears that he may need instruction.

[iheartbda]

Will send you all the posts if you like that were on USA TV.

And I love your comments on my style! Thanks so much. Its a passion.

Good luck on your cruise.

Take care,

We are the Moore's

Tampa Bay

Unless you were being sarcastic, that wasn't a compliment on your writing style.;)

Edited February 10, 2016 by iheartbda

[DanJ]

The engines, machinery, fuel and water in the bottom of the ship weighs more than the empty volume of the superstructure.

 

.

 

I recall when we sailed on the Grand Princess in 1999, when it was the largest cruise ship, they had a thing playing on the cabin TV's showing behind the scenes areas of the ship (the idea of charging a hundred and fifty bucks to show those areas hadn't dawned on them yet lol). Anyway, one clip was with the engineer and one question he said they get asked as ships get bigger and bigger is how do these ships stay upright when they are so tall. I can't recall exactly what number he used (perhaps you might know), but he said something along the lines that of the physical weight of the ship, some huge majority (I want to say he said 80-90%) of the weight was below the waterline. I remember the scene of him standing on the pier and waving his arm back at the ship and saying "what you see here is nothing in terms of how much the ship weighs".

[dsrdsrdsr]

I think your logic is a bit fuzzy. You claim the captain came close to killing 6,000 people, and a fair punishment for that transgression is to be demoted to first mate? You're extraordinarily lenient. And quite possibly wildly inaccurate, too.

 

Can you post a link to these 5-day forecasts? I've heard quite a lot about them, but not yet seen one. If there were accurate and reliable forecasts that predicted exactly how the storm was going to develop, then the forecasters must be widely published; they must be making a fortune, as they're doing what no other forecaster can do.

[chengkp75]

I recall when we sailed on the Grand Princess in 1999, when it was the largest cruise ship, they had a thing playing on the cabin TV's showing behind the scenes areas of the ship (the idea of charging a hundred and fifty bucks to show those areas hadn't dawned on them yet lol). Anyway, one clip was with the engineer and one question he said they get asked as ships get bigger and bigger is how do these ships stay upright when they are so tall. I can't recall exactly what number he used (perhaps you might know), but he said something along the lines that of the physical weight of the ship, some huge majority (I want to say he said 80-90%) of the weight was below the waterline. I remember the scene of him standing on the pier and waving his arm back at the ship and saying "what you see here is nothing in terms of how much the ship weighs".

 

There isn't really a rule of thumb for this, but I'll give some rough idea. The center of buoyancy is well below the waterline (since the buoyancy is only caused by the water displaced by the hull in the water), and the center of gravity for a ship like Anthem will be maybe 3-4 meters above this. So the center of gravity (the theoretical spot where all the mass of the ship could be represented in one spot), will still be below the promenade deck. My guess would be somewhere around deck 2.

[GUT2407]

What's your point? Nimitz class Aircraft Carriers have about 15 stories out of the water and only draft 37 feet carrying a much heavier load in worse conditions.

 

I was wondering what's point was too.

 

The carriers are wider which helps a little.

 

But I still don't get he point.

 

Why do crise ships (of any size) avoid storms:confused:;), not hard to figure.

 

If I was on a ship 2 stories above he water and 100 below, I'd still want to avoid storms.

 

Pretty simple really.

[DocF]

There isn't really a rule of thumb for this, but I'll give some rough idea. The center of buoyancy is well below the waterline (since the buoyancy is only caused by the water displaced by the hull in the water), and the center of gravity for a ship like Anthem will be maybe 3-4 meters above this. So the center of gravity (the theoretical spot where all the mass of the ship could be represented in one spot), will still be below the promenade deck. My guess would be somewhere around deck 2.

 

 

If one wants a very good explanation of this part of marine engineering and vessel stability, one must read the late George W. Hilton's great book Eastland: The Legacy of the Titanic. It is somewhat involved, but it is much more clearly explained than I have found anywhere else.

 

I do not suggest reading this book before going on a cruise. :eek:

 

Doc

[eddeb]

Hope the Anthem is Docked by now...

 

Many said that they thought they would die.

 

And called relatives to say that...

 

As for my good friend Cheng.

 

I would ask you what a 100 year storm looks like?

 

This one perhaps?

 

So glad you know that the center of gravity is on deck two.

 

What about the 16 stories above that my friend?

 

The Captain said that this was the worst day he has ever experienced

 

at Sea... What about the 6 thousand he was responsible for?

 

I love all the haters, but this should be a wake up call for all puddle jumper

 

ships that are getting bigger and bigger.

 

Our forecaster here in Tampa said that RCCL knew they were going into Hurricane winds

 

that were forecast before sailing. He is not Al Roker, he has been our top

 

weather guy for 25 years and he was livid as to why this happened...

 

If the ship lost power as several other Carnival ships over the last few years,

 

they were minutes away from disaster, at best.

 

I Also must address the "Minor" damage claims... is that for real? lol

 

Take care and have safe journeys everyone.

 

Would love to hang with Cheng on the 100 year storm thing....

 

I am not a troll, don't even know what that means.

 

Take care,

 

Safe Journeys,

 

And Take care,

 

We are the Moore's

Tampa Bay

[CruiserBruce]

Hope the Anthem is Docked by now...

 

Many said that they thought they would die.

 

And called relatives to say that...

 

As for my good friend Cheng.

 

I would ask you what a 100 year storm looks like?

 

This one perhaps?

 

So glad you know that the center of gravity is on deck two.

 

What about the 16 stories above that my friend?

 

The Captain said that this was the worst day he has ever experienced

 

at Sea... What about the 6 thousand he was responsible for?

 

I love all the haters, but this should be a wake up call for all puddle jumper

 

ships that are getting bigger and bigger.

 

Our forecaster here in Tampa said that RCCL knew they were going into Hurricane winds

 

that were forecast before sailing. He is not Al Roker, he has been our top

 

weather guy for 25 years and he was livid as to why this happened...

 

If the ship lost power as several other Carnival ships over the last few years,

 

they were minutes away from disaster, at best.

 

I Also must address the "Minor" damage claims... is that for real? lol

 

Take care and have safe journeys everyone.

 

Would love to hang with Cheng on the 100 year storm thing....

 

I am not a troll, don't even know what that means.

 

Take care,

 

Safe Journeys,

 

And Take care,

 

We are the Moore's

Tampa Bay

 

You don't know what a troll is, but you say you aren't one?

 

Did your supposed excellent forecasting sources describe "hurricane force winds" for Anthem? "Hurricane force winds" start at 74 mph. I have sailed through hurricane force winds at least twice, on ships much smaller than Anthem, and slept comfortably both times. There was zero damage on the ship both times. "Hurricane force" winds are NOT a reason not to sail. Ships sail through "hurricane force winds" regularly.

 

Al Roker may have some training, but Al Roker is not a meteorologist. He is an entertainer. He could not work at the Weather Service, as I understand it, because he is NOT a meteorologist.

 

After being in the emergency services for 40 years now, if I got a dollar for every time I heard people say they thought they were going die... Of course I have also seen video of people saying it was pretty cool to ride out the storm and watch the Super Bowl in their cabin.

 

I am sure this melodramatic thread will be closed very soon.

Edited February 11, 2016 by CruiserBruce

[Underwatr]

Correction to my last post, done early before my first coffee. The center of gravity of a ship is always above the center of buoyancy.

Not on a submerged submarine (thankfully). :)

 

But that's beyond the scope of this thread, particularly what happens between the time it's on the surface (B below G) and submerged (B above G).

[eddeb]

They said that the radar dome fell off the ship...

 

So glad you were not in the hot tub.... :)

 

Take care.

 

We're the Moore's

Tampa Bay

[eddeb]

Safe journeys everyone. :)

[WupperAV]

YUP! I learned there ain't no good in an evil hearted woman! Boring subject. Like why do kids wreck trycycles? They are inherently unstable!

What do dogs say when they bark all night? HEYHEYHEYHEYHEYHEYHEYHEYHEYHEY

 

HMMMMMMM! Bet my 19 ft bass boat would've been fun riding it.

Edited February 11, 2016 by WupperAV

[chengkp75]

Hope the Anthem is Docked by now...

 

Many said that they thought they would die.

 

And called relatives to say that...

 

As for my good friend Cheng.

 

I would ask you what a 100 year storm looks like?

 

This one perhaps?

 

So glad you know that the center of gravity is on deck two.

 

What about the 16 stories above that my friend?

 

The Captain said that this was the worst day he has ever experienced

 

at Sea... What about the 6 thousand he was responsible for?

 

I love all the haters, but this should be a wake up call for all puddle jumper

 

ships that are getting bigger and bigger.

 

Our forecaster here in Tampa said that RCCL knew they were going into Hurricane winds

 

that were forecast before sailing. He is not Al Roker, he has been our top

 

weather guy for 25 years and he was livid as to why this happened...

 

If the ship lost power as several other Carnival ships over the last few years,

 

they were minutes away from disaster, at best.

 

I Also must address the "Minor" damage claims... is that for real? lol

 

Take care and have safe journeys everyone.

 

Would love to hang with Cheng on the 100 year storm thing....

 

I am not a troll, don't even know what that means.

 

Take care,

 

Safe Journeys,

 

And Take care,

 

We are the Moore's

Tampa Bay

 

A 100 year storm is one that statistically should appear once in a hundred years. Each area of the seas has a different definition of seas and winds that constitutes a 100 year storm, of course, because the "base" or normal weather of each area is different. However, a good generalization of a hundred year storm would be 175+ knot winds, 60-80 ft seas, for 2-3 days.

 

Once again, you show little knowledge of physics and mechanics. Which weighs more, a 2 cubic foot box full of air or a 2 cubic foot box full of steel. The 15 decks above the center of gravity are the box full of air. The box full of steel is the hull, with its tons of water and fuel in the tanks, and machinery that weighs tons. Each of Anthem's diesel engines weigh between 177-233 metric tons, each, and there are 4 of them. That doesn't count the generator on the end that makes the electricity. Each of the azipods is 200+ metric tons. And that is only a small part of the machinery in the hull. Add in the 6000-8000 metric tons of fuel, 3000+ tons of fresh water, and 7-8000 metric tons of ballast, and you have simulated the box full of steel.

 

Now, you stack the box of air on the box of steel, and push on the box of air and try to tip the stack over. Point made.

 

And your 25 year weatherman knows so much about ship design and stability, and reliability (please look up the IMO's requirement for Safe Return to Port passenger ship design, developed after the Carnival Splendor fire to see what all passenger ships built after 2010 have to meet as far as reliability and redundency) to know that the ship was "minutes away from disaster"? Send him an e-mail and ask that he google "SS Badger State" to look at a ship that was without power, listing, abandoned, and with holes in the hull that survived days of typhoon weather to see whether the Anthem was "minutes from disaster".

 

What do you see as major or even considerable damage to Anthem. Some furnishings (china, glassware, furniture) was damaged, some glass blown out and a satellite (TV or internet) antenna, not a radar, was broken. Was there any structural damage? Was there any flooding of cabins (like the Norwegian Dawn a few years back)? Was there any failure of machinery? If there was, RCI would be stupid to announce an immediate sailing, knowing full well that the USCG would be doing a Port State control inspection looking for just that kind of damage.

 

You may or may not be a troll, but you certainly have no knowledge of ships, the sea, or the maritime industry. When you study up a little more, come back with some more opinions, but don't post them as "facts".

 

Still waiting on the description of the "massive keel" on the QM2.