warning about keeping balcony door open when having a cabin with an adjoining door.

[vmom]

Just off the Noordam. Had a wonderful cruise and the staff was fantastic on board.

 

We had a balcony cabin with a door between our cabin and the cabin next to ours that was kept closed and locked. It was an adjoining door with the cabin next to ours.

 

Our cabin neighbors one night decided to keep their balcony door propped open all night using a chair. This created an extremely loud whistling wind sound to come through the bottom of the adjoining door and also created a cold wind in our room making our cabin cold and breezy.

 

I was surprised at how loud the wind was. At 7 am I called the front desk and asked them to handle the situation. Within minutes, our cabin neighbors closed the balcony door.

 

My hats off to the excellent way Holland America front desk handled a difficult situation. In addition, the following evening, a ship staff member personally went up to the other cabin and explained to them that they need to keep the balcony door closed. Thank you Holland for your excellent handling and care of this matter.

 

However, to all those who are tempted to prop open your balcony door at night, please, if you have an adjoining door, please don't do it.

Edited March 30, 2016 by vmom

[cl.klink]

.. pesky physics ...

 

- Joel

[RuthC]

However, to all those who are tempted to prop open your balcony door at night, please, if you have an adjoining door, please don't do it.

Don't do it even if you don't have a connecting door.

If you want that fresh air so badly, sleep out on the balcony.

[JimAOk1945]

vmom,

 

I've seen a lot of posts from people asking whether it's OK to have their balcony door open. Your information is very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to post this information.

[KirkNC]

Glad to hear HAL responded so forcefully. Keeping a door open screws up an entire section of cabins HVAC. People need to think a little beyond just themselves.

[TiogaCruiser]

Glad to hear HAL responded so forcefully. Keeping a door open screws up an entire section of cabins HVAC. People need to think a little beyond just themselves.

 

Or they just don't know.......

 

The one time I had a lanai there was NO signage or anything in the letter explaining how to use the key card the even mentioned not propping it open.

(And no, I did not leave it open. I knew better because of discussions on CC).

[3rdGenCunarder]

Or they just don't know.......

 

The one time I had a lanai there was NO signage or anything in the letter explaining how to use the key card the even mentioned not propping it open.

(And no, I did not leave it open. I knew better because of discussions on CC).

 

A lot of people probably don't realize that they shouldn't keep the balcony door open. I know I've seen a sign on the door on some ships, but not all.

[erewhon]

Thanks for your message, pleased that HAL responded so well.

 

(I would have been contacting the front desk long before 7am!!)

 

Pleased that you had a wonderful cruise, which was your favourite port of call?

[vmom]

Thanks for your kind comments. I was impressed with Holland and their staff.

 

Hard to decide which port I liked best. I really enjoyed Dunedin, New Zealand. Its a beautiful area with fantastic views all around. I enjoyed the tour we did in Tauranga to see the hot springs, geyser and Hobbiton. All around, New Zealand was beautiful and a place I would like to go back to.

[erewhon]

Thanks for your kind comments. I was impressed with Holland and their staff.

 

Hard to decide which port I liked best. I really enjoyed Dunedin, New Zealand. Its a beautiful area with fantastic views all around. I enjoyed the tour we did in Tauranga to see the hot springs, geyser and Hobbiton. All around, New Zealand was beautiful and a place I would like to go back to.

 

Thanks for your reply.

Hope it will not be too long before you return to New Zealand......you still have lots to see!!:)

[Despegue]

This is not always correct.

 

For example, on Celebrity Solstice Class, when you open the sliding door of the balcony, your cabin Airco unit will switch off and the cabin airconditioning valve will close seperating it from the common duct. You can keep your door open without interfering with the airconditioning system as a result.

This is a very unknown fact actually, not even understood by some crew.

 

By far most new vessels have a similar system.

 

Unfortunately, it does seem that HAL vessels do not have this feature, although I find this fact bizarre.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

Glad to hear HAL responded so forcefully. Keeping a door open screws up an entire section of cabins HVAC. People need to think a little beyond just themselves.

 

I’m just curious, whether adjusting the thermostat could prevent the HVAC from compensating for the open door. That is, if warmer air comes in from outside, turn the thermostat to highest setting, and if air coming in is colder, turn the thermostat to coldest setting. I do this at home all the time, as I have a wide comfort zone regarding temperatures and I’m very conscious about energy consumption. (I am fine with keeping the balcony door closed on ship, if I have one.:))

[fsdj1097]

Just off the Noordam. Had a wonderful cruise and the staff was fantastic on board.

 

We had a balcony cabin with a door between our cabin and the cabin next to ours that was kept closed and locked. It was an adjoining door with the cabin next to ours.

 

Our cabin neighbors one night decided to keep their balcony door propped open all night using a chair. This created an extremely loud whistling wind sound to come through the bottom of the adjoining door and also created a cold wind in our room making our cabin cold and breezy.

 

I was surprised at how loud the wind was. At 7 am I called the front desk and asked them to handle the situation. Within minutes, our cabin neighbors closed the balcony door.

 

My hats off to the excellent way Holland America front desk handled a difficult situation. In addition, the following evening, a ship staff member personally went up to the other cabin and explained to them that they need to keep the balcony door closed. Thank you Holland for your excellent handling and care of this matter.

 

However, to all those who are tempted to prop open your balcony door at night, please, if you have an adjoining door, please don't do it.

 

I guess I'm unclear how an open balcony door in the cabin next to yours would make your cabin cold and breezy if your balcony door was closed. I understand the part about the whistling sound, just not about your cabin being uncomfortable.

[kenphy]

Thanks for your kind comments. I was impressed with Holland and their staff.

 

Hard to decide which port I liked best. I really enjoyed Dunedin, New Zealand. Its a beautiful area with fantastic views all around. I enjoyed the tour we did in Tauranga to see the hot springs, geyser and Hobbiton. All around, New Zealand was beautiful and a place I would like to go back to.

 

We have always said that if we didn't have children (and grand-children!!) we would find a way to live in New Zealand. It is a beautiful country with absolutely the friendliest people on earth. Wish Americans could go back to being like them. Dunedin and Wellington were our absolute favorites.

[chengkp75]

I’m just curious, whether adjusting the thermostat could prevent the HVAC from compensating for the open door. That is, if warmer air comes in from outside, turn the thermostat to highest setting, and if air coming in is colder, turn the thermostat to coldest setting. I do this at home all the time, as I have a wide comfort zone regarding temperatures and I’m very conscious about energy consumption. (I am fine with keeping the balcony door closed on ship, if I have one.:))

 

I guess I'm unclear how an open balcony door in the cabin next to yours would make your cabin cold and breezy if your balcony door was closed. I understand the part about the whistling sound, just not about your cabin being uncomfortable.

 

The cabin thermostat controls the air cooler and fan that cools the 80% of your cabin volume that is recirculated in an hour. 20% of the cabin volume is exhausted via a combination of the bathroom exhaust fan and the airflow under the door into the passageway. This 20% volume is made up for by an equal air flow from a fresh air source (outside air) that is cooled by large air handlers that supply a bank of cabins (generally all cabins within one fire zone on each deck).

 

On the ships I've been on, opening the balcony door only shuts off the recirculation cooler, but the fresh air supply is maintained. Then, because the HVAC system is designed to keep a slightly higher pressure in your cabin than in the passageway (to keep smoke from entering your cabin), when a balcony door is opened, this becomes a low pressure zone, and all the fresh air supply will tend to be directed to the cabin with the balcony door open. Therefore, cabins farther away from the open balcony door will get less fresh air, and tend to become warmer, while those close by will get more air and become colder. This is because the cabin with the open door will suck air under adjoining doors, or from the passageway, and nearby cabins will leak more air than normal into the passageway to compensate.

 

I have not seen the system Despegue mentions, it was not common on ships built just 6-8 years ago, so I cannot say how widespread its use is. While it makes sense to do this, it does add significantly to the cost of the HVAC system, since every balcony cabin now requires a motor operated damper.

 

HVAC control is all about airflow balance. Something done to one area affects the balance in other areas.

[OlsSalt]

The cabin thermostat controls the air cooler and fan that cools the 80% of your cabin volume that is recirculated in an hour. 20% of the cabin volume is exhausted via a combination of the bathroom exhaust fan and the airflow under the door into the passageway. This 20% volume is made up for by an equal air flow from a fresh air source (outside air) that is cooled by large air handlers that supply a bank of cabins (generally all cabins within one fire zone on each deck).

 

On the ships I've been on, opening the balcony door only shuts off the recirculation cooler, but the fresh air supply is maintained. Then, because the HVAC system is designed to keep a slightly higher pressure in your cabin than in the passageway (to keep smoke from entering your cabin), when a balcony door is opened, this becomes a low pressure zone, and all the fresh air supply will tend to be directed to the cabin with the balcony door open. Therefore, cabins farther away from the open balcony door will get less fresh air, and tend to become warmer, while those close by will get more air and become colder. This is because the cabin with the open door will suck air under adjoining doors, or from the passageway, and nearby cabins will leak more air than normal into the passageway to compensate.

 

I have not seen the system Despegue mentions, it was not common on ships built just 6-8 years ago, so I cannot say how widespread its use is. While it makes sense to do this, it does add significantly to the cost of the HVAC system, since every balcony cabin now requires a motor operated damper.

 

HVAC control is all about airflow balance. Something done to one area affects the balance in other areas.

 

Thank you for your careful explanation. Older ships obviously come with different systems based upon a former and more communal cruising culture.

[chengkp75]

Thank you for your careful explanation. Older ships obviously come with different systems based upon a former and more communal cruising culture.

 

Bit confused about the "cruising culture" and its effect on HVAC design. What Despegue is describing is exactly the same system, except that the fresh air supply for each cabin, coming from the common air handler, has a motorized damper on it, so that opening the balcony door not only shuts off the recirculation cooler, but closes the incoming fresh air duct to only that cabin, to maintain airflow balance. Older ships do tend to have less balcony cabins, and the HVAC systems were not designed to the fine edge of efficiency that newer systems might be, so the fresh air damper was not considered necessary or cost effective.

[Despegue]

Regarding the whistling noise: try putting a rolled-up towel in front of the door...;) ( shouldn't really be saying this...please adhere to the Cruise lines requests regarding balcony door policy)

 

And also listen to Chengkp75, his technical knowledge is far greater than mine :o.

[0bnxshs]

The cabin thermostat controls the air cooler and fan that cools the 80% of your cabin volume that is recirculated in an hour. 20% of the cabin volume is exhausted via a combination of the bathroom exhaust fan and the airflow under the door into the passageway. This 20% volume is made up for by an equal air flow from a fresh air source (outside air) that is cooled by large air handlers that supply a bank of cabins (generally all cabins within one fire zone on each deck).

 

On the ships I've been on, opening the balcony door only shuts off the recirculation cooler, but the fresh air supply is maintained. Then, because the HVAC system is designed to keep a slightly higher pressure in your cabin than in the passageway (to keep smoke from entering your cabin), when a balcony door is opened, this becomes a low pressure zone, and all the fresh air supply will tend to be directed to the cabin with the balcony door open. Therefore, cabins farther away from the open balcony door will get less fresh air, and tend to become warmer, while those close by will get more air and become colder. This is because the cabin with the open door will suck air under adjoining doors, or from the passageway, and nearby cabins will leak more air than normal into the passageway to compensate.

 

I have not seen the system Despegue mentions, it was not common on ships built just 6-8 years ago, so I cannot say how widespread its use is. While it makes sense to do this, it does add significantly to the cost of the HVAC system, since every balcony cabin now requires a motor operated damper.

 

HVAC control is all about airflow balance. Something done to one area affects the balance in other areas.

 

Bit confused about the "cruising culture" and its effect on HVAC design. What Despegue is describing is exactly the same system, except that the fresh air supply for each cabin, coming from the common air handler, has a motorized damper on it, so that opening the balcony door not only shuts off the recirculation cooler, but closes the incoming fresh air duct to only that cabin, to maintain airflow balance. Older ships do tend to have less balcony cabins, and the HVAC systems were not designed to the fine edge of efficiency that newer systems might be, so the fresh air damper was not considered necessary or cost effective.

 

Another quotable explanation by Chengkp75. Thank you for taking the time and patience to explain the inner workings of so many things "ship". :)

[OlsSalt]

A" cruising culture" that collectively follows the clear directions posted on the balcony doors and the back of the toilets restricting what can be flushed down this system. Fixed dining times and set tables becomes anytime dining. Formal night dress restrictions becoming anything goes "gala" nights. Fewer passengers like group conformity, and the industry is responding. That is the changed cruise culture.

 

Two of the biggest problems reported by HAL cruisers (toilets and cabin temperature), yet both are often within passenger personal control and consideration of others with whom they now share this enclosed environment.

 

Today we see more of the "rules are for other people" as well as personal demands even in a collective onboard experience. Therefore HAL ships need to engineer in response to this new more individual demand "cruise culture" in their future ship design, and retrofit in response where they can, as other cruise lines are apparently already doing. Signs and announcements are no longer sufficient.

Edited March 30, 2016 by OlsSalt

[vmom]

I guess I'm unclear how an open balcony door in the cabin next to yours would make your cabin cold and breezy if your balcony door was closed. I understand the part about the whistling sound, just not about your cabin being uncomfortable.

 

We were impacted because there was an adjoining door between the 2 cabins.

 

There was a small space between the floor and the doors, just like in your home doors. This space allowed the wind to come through. Because the space is small, more air is pushed through a small opening causing a loud whistle noise (in this case a very loud whistle).

 

The air came through the bottom of the door causing a pretty hefty breeze. I was able to feel the breeze when standing close to the door and when I put my hand by the bottom of the door, the breeze was strong.

[chengkp75]

A" cruising culture" that collectively follows the clear directions posted on the balcony doors and the back of the toilets restricting what can be flushed down this system. Fixed dining times and set tables becomes anytime dining. Formal night dress restrictions becoming anything goes "gala" nights. Fewer passengers like group conformity, and the industry is responding. That is the changed cruise culture.

 

Two of the biggest problems reported by HAL cruisers (toilets and cabin temperature), yet both are often within passenger personal control and consideration of others with whom they now share this enclosed environment.

 

Today we see more of the "rules are for other people" as well as personal demands even in a collective onboard experience. Therefore HAL ships need to engineer in response to this new more individual demand "cruise culture" in their future ship design, and retrofit in response where they can, as other cruise lines are apparently already doing. Signs and announcements are no longer sufficient.

 

Ah, I see now, and agree with the change in culture. Any redesign or retrofit, however, must meet a cost/benefit analysis towards the bottom line first and foremost, even if we want it to be a service industry.

[galensgrl]

Signs and announcements are no longer sufficient.

 

Excuse me for abbreviating your quote, but you are right on in regards to many people thinking the rules are meant for others and signs being ignored. On the first day of one of our NCL cruises several years ago, our toilet and others on the same septic line became unusable due to a bad clog in the line. It was discovered that someone tried to flush a dirty disposable diaper down the toilet further up the line. What is so strange about that is, even on land can anyone really believe that a baby diaper is able to be flushed down any type of toilet without causing a plumbing problem? I think not, but somehow someone thought flushing one down a cruise ship toilet was an okay idea, despite very clear signs over the toilet warning people not to flush things not meant to be flushed. Yes a cruise can be a "magical" experience, but obviously that doesn't apply to the real world plumbing system. ;)

[PatsyAnne]

Raised by wolves...

[erewhon]

We have always said that if we didn't have children (and grand-children!!) we would find a way to live in New Zealand. It is a beautiful country with absolutely the friendliest people on earth. Wish Americans could go back to being like them. Dunedin and Wellington were our absolute favorites.

 

Thanks for your kind comments.

Perhaps you could all live here:).