Koningsdam MDR disappointment

[Florida_gal_50]

They could maybe compromise on a smaller MDR, and more speciality restaurants. After sailing on the NCL Epic, where we were in a different restaurant almost every night and all of them excellent, I am not looking forward to the MDR on the Koningsdam. I know there is the Pinnacle, but it's so slow in there.

I think we will mostly enjoy the evening scenic cruising and have dinner at the buffet, or on room service.

I would try the MDR but it may be chaotic on the first night. I'm finding that it's best to make up my own mind regarding the way things are on a ship rather taking conversation on CC as being representive of what happens on every cruise.

[OlsSalt]

I totally agree with you!

I did not realize that, as an anytime diner, I had a chosen preference other than "show up anytime." I also wait patiently for my turn. To have someone suggest that an "anytime" diner , hungry or not, be sent to the Lido so as not to disturb the those strewn around the MDR as fixed diners is, well, absurd. Until HAL decides to change its staffing or the arrangement (some other lines have one room for fixed, another for anytime), we just have to co-exist, as much as some would not want to do.

 

My misunderstanding. I did not know the fixed diners that were disrupted were "strewn around the dining room" as you report, but apparently this is the case on the Konigsdam. I was working with the assumption from the original description of this issue that they were placed in the more typically exclusive fixed dining venue - like the upper dining room. Hence the chaos trying to mix up the different and expected service flow.

 

sammiedawg reported: "We were often seated in the fixed areas upstairs. By the time we arrived Service teams were quite focused on the fixed tables with assistants and head waiters following up with the customary pepper mills, condiments, peeling shellfish, etc. But we as anytime diners were pretty much ignored, little to no follow up. Ignored totally by the head waiter. We peeled our own shellfish and used a bread plate to stack the shells which were not picked up until the table was cleared at the end,

We could see the stress on the waiter 's face when he realized we had been seated in the midst of his efforts trying to get fixed courses served. We were interruptions. This happened on more than one HAL cruise and completely turned us off."

 

(Now do the follow-up comments make more sense?)

[Florida_gal_50]

My misunderstanding. I did not know the fixed diners that were disrupted were "strewn around the dining room" as you report, but apparently this is the case on the Konigsdam. I was working with the assumption from the original description of this issue that they were placed in the more typically exclusive fixed dining venue - like the upper dining room. Hence the chaos trying to mix up the different and expected service flow.

 

sammiedawg reported: "We were often seated in the fixed areas upstairs. By the time we arrived Service teams were quite focused on the fixed tables with assistants and head waiters following up with the customary pepper mills, condiments, peeling shellfish, etc. But we as anytime diners were pretty much ignored, little to no follow up. Ignored totally by the head waiter. We peeled our own shellfish and used a bread plate to stack the shells which were not picked up until the table was cleared at the end,

We could see the stress on the waiter 's face when he realized we had been seated in the midst of his efforts trying to get fixed courses served. We were interruptions. This happened on more than one HAL cruise and completely turned us off."

 

(Now do the follow-up comments make more sense?)

Misread the post. I understand what you are saying now.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Florida_gal_50
misread post

[KroozNut]

I actually think the best solution for this problem is to take out the MDR entirely. The MDR is a relic of the past. Instead, HAL could offer the Lido buffet and 5-6 restaurants on each ship that passengers could make reservations for. Some of these could be upscale, while others could be more like diners. Everyone would have to make a reservation if they wanted a true sit down meal with wait staff. Everyone else goes to the buffet.

 

I'm thinking that there are still way too many cruisers (including ourselves) that prefer traditional (fixed) dining, for your idea to be a viable solution in today's environment. This means that the MDR is not quite yet a 'relic of the past' as you describe. Maybe a few more years down the line though..

[Boytjie]

Does anyone know if the quality of cooking in the Lido Buffet is better than in the MDR on the Koningsdam? Also, is it less noisy than the MDR? On the P&O Ventura, the food in their buffet restaurant was often pretty awful and it was worse than in the MDR.

 

We were on the Konigsdam in February on a charter with a whole different set-up compared to a regular HAL cruise. For example: all of the main dining room was open seating; the dining room was never open for lunch (there were two brunches on sea days) and the Lido buffet was open very late (till 3 AM) due to parties that late and the reason why the MDR was not open for lunch as not many used it and staff had to work late keeping the Lido open that late.

 

That said, I thought the food on the Koningsdam in February was very good, whether in the MDR or in the buffet. Better than it had been in the previous years on HAL cruises (same charter). The service also improved, in my opinion.

 

As for the MDR, they handled all-open-dining quite well; on the last night a group of 27 of us wanted to eat together and yes, there is no table big enough, but they gave us a beeper and we waited 10-15 minutes in which time they found us three adjacent tables that could seat us all.

 

About half of our breakfasts were from the Grand Dutch Cafe - good coffee and some good food and snacks. I was glad I booked our cabin just one staircase away from that place! One of us - OK, mostly my DH - would pop downstairs for coffee and early breakfast snacks. Afterward we would either go to the Lido for more substantial breakfast or have an Uitsmijter (egg, cheese and ham sandwich) at the Grand Dutch Cafe.

[whogo]

Mixing anytime and fixed diners is not the root problem. It is not like a waiter takes the orders of all his fixed diners at the same time, delivers their appetizers at the same time, delivers their soup course at the same time, presents their main course at the same time, etc. Some fixed diners have to wait even when all dining is fixed.

[KroozNut]

I wouldn't worry too much. I've often seen people go into the MDR and bypass the podium while I was waiting to be seated. It never occurred to me to be upset and I didn't hear anyone making comments.

Good to know... thanks! :)

[debsjc]

I would try the MDR but it may be chaotic on the first night. I'm finding that it's best to make up my own mind regarding the way things are on a ship rather taking conversation on CC as being representive of what happens on every cruise.

 

We will definitely try it for a couple of nights. I have low expectations mainly due to our last HAL cruise, but i'll be delighted if they have improved things.

[Cahpek]

We will definitely try it for a couple of nights. I have low expectations mainly due to our last HAL cruise, but i'll be delighted if they have improved things.

 

Dear debsjc, as you have been on HAL before, would you say the general quality of the food/cooking in the Lido Market buffet is better than in the MDR? To be frank, having read the comments, we are NOT having any high expectations on the food (but have higher expectations of other parts of the cruise itself, we just hope the ship will dock in all the ports in the itinerary and the weather is nice) . Still if you are going on a cruise for two weeks (we are going on the same cruise as you are to Norway) and being "stuck" on board, it would be nice to know that there are places to eat which is already included in the price of the cruise fare, and not have to pay a supplement in the speciality restaurants every time we need to eat something nice.

[cruisetheworld67]

Interesting that you give priority to one inconvenience in preference to another inconvenience. Sorry about that one-sided attitude.

 

Fixed diners expected a certain service level when they signed up for fixed dining, which appears to be taken away when the decision is made to insert "hungry" anytime diners into that fixed-dining setting.

 

Hope something more accommodating can be arranged - such as sending the "hungry anytime diners" up to the Lido, if they cannot wait for their upfront chosen "anytime" dining preference. Creating chaos in the fixed-dining setting does not solve anything for anyone.

 

HAL might need to re-market the concept of "anytime" dining, or reallocate space in the Upper Dining room to accommodate "anytime" overflow so that it does not disrupt the fixed diners expectations of a predictible flow of more serene service.

 

 

Yes...yes. Send the anytime diners to the Lido. How dare those peons interrupt our fixed dining experience by invading our dining room as we sit above the masses sipping our glasses of wine!

 

Oh.....perhaps you could throw a few crumbs of bread down from above while we anytime diners wait until we too can devour a few left over morsels of food! Talk about attitude!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[mancunian]

Interesting the comments about quality of food as well as the open fixed dining option. We have mostly been on HAL over the last few years but have also been on Oceania three times, Seabourn and Celebrity. Celebrity we have eliminated completely as having an overly noisy dining room, far worse than our experience on Koningsdam and a mix of meals from very good to poor. Seabourn we were generally happy with though were irritated that you could not have breakfast or lunch in the MDR which is where we usually eat. Oceania was better, or so I thought but on our recent 18 night trip on a portion of their world cruise I was not happy. Three times I asked for my steak to be well done and it was not even close, one time I ordered the poached salmon on the available everyday menu. It looked beautiful on the plate but when you cut into it it was completely raw, only a fine layer of the outer surface was cooked. You are then faced with the choice of sending it back, or going hungry. If it goes back you end up not eating with your partner. This is totally unacceptable particularly on a line that states it has the best food at sea. They even give you a list of the terms of how your steak is cooked, but then do not follow it. I am not the only person to complain on here about this. For a line which claims to be the best food at sea this is unacceptable. Fine if you want a lot of lobster say, which we do not, but otherwise not that brilliant. HAL measures up in many areas and in fact is better on breakfasts, salads and variety of veg. These two cruiselines are the two we will probably continue to cruise on, with HAL being the choice if the route is what we want to do.

 

I know many people will not agree with this, but it is our view. All round we think HAL is good value for money.

[Stella1250]

What a bunch of malarkey. Open or fixed, we all have a "right" to dine where we want. If my open presence interrupts any fixed diners, well I guess they will just have to get used to it. If they offer it , we will come. We may even have the nerve to take the two empty seats at your fixed table when someone goes to another dining venue. Just saying.

[SusieKay]

It was not my intent when I started this thread to revive what appears to be an ongoing feud among anytime and fixed diners.

 

My comments were meant to share my disappointment in the MDR that I personally experienced on the Koningsdam on the cruise I was on.

 

We have dined in anytime and fixed on previous cruises and were always happy with our choice.

[sammiedawg]

It was not my intent when I started this thread to revive what appears to be an ongoing feud among anytime and fixed diners.

 

My comments were meant to share my disappointment in the MDR that I personally experienced on the Koningsdam on the cruise I was on.

 

We have dined in anytime and fixed on previous cruises and were always happy with our choice.

 

Oh don't worry about it. I joined into the discussion but wasn't offended in any way. I'm glad you posted this thread because I've said similar things in the past and HAL experts dismissed my observations.

Food hasn't been all that great in years in either venue, fixed or open.

[debsjc]

Dear debsjc, as you have been on HAL before, would you say the general quality of the food/cooking in the Lido Market buffet is better than in the MDR? To be frank, having read the comments, we are NOT having any high expectations on the food (but have higher expectations of other parts of the cruise itself, we just hope the ship will dock in all the ports in the itinerary and the weather is nice) . Still if you are going on a cruise for two weeks (we are going on the same cruise as you are to Norway) and being "stuck" on board, it would be nice to know that there are places to eat which is already included in the price of the cruise fare, and not have to pay a supplement in the speciality restaurants every time we need to eat something nice.

 

On our first HAL cruises the MDR was quite good, but on the last two (Noordam & Oosterdam) the food quality and service had gone down hill. We found the service slow (2 hours to just get served 3 courses) and the food was usually tepid and over salty.

 

To some extent here is the same problem of food temperature and saltiness in the Lido, but it's easier to avoid it as there is a wider choice with all the various stations. Not sure if the Koninsgdam is the same but on all the other ships they cook pasta to order. They used to make paninis to order, but I don't think they do now. I was often happy to just have the salad bar with a slice of meat from the carvery.... or a couple of cold appetisers and no main.

Ideally we will eat in the MDR some evenings, but it depends on how it is. It will be interesting to try the Dutch Cafe this trip as well.

 

We are going for routing, the scenery and the scenic cruising, as I expect you are too .... if we get some great food too, that will be a bonus! :cool:

[idiebabe]

What a bunch of malarkey. Open or fixed, we all have a "right" to dine where we want. If my open presence interrupts any fixed diners, well I guess they will just have to get used to it. If they offer it , we will come. We may even have the nerve to take the two empty seats at your fixed table when someone goes to another dining venue. Just saying.

 

Have you sailed on the Koningsdam? If you sailed on this Ship, then you would know what everyone who has sailed this Ship is commenting about!

 

If you read the comments, they are about Open/Fixed being mixed together which many feel (who actually sailed this Ship) just are not working and affecting Service! This Thread isn't about the overflow of some "Open" diners being put into "Fixed" Seating!

 

No one is saying you don't have a right to dine when you want! They are saying they prefer the way it is on the other Ships where one level is Fixed and the other Level is Open.

 

We've had Open diners put at a table in our Fixed time when the table was open that evening on many Sailings and NEVER saw our Waitstaff give an attitude toward the Open diners nor not give them good service! Also, we have never even thought negative about it!

 

Maybe everyone should stick to the topic of the thread which is the MDR on Koningsdam mixing Fixed/Open together!

[Boytjie]

Have you sailed on the Koningsdam? If you sailed on this Ship, then you would know what everyone who has sailed this Ship is commenting about!

 

Careful about claiming what everyone that has sailed on the Koningsdam has commented. ;)

 

I have sailed on her and have not commented about an open/fixed dining issue on our cruise - because we did not have any fixed dining on the cruise! :D

[RuthC]

If they offer it , we will come. We may even have the nerve to take the two empty seats at your fixed table when someone goes to another dining venue. Just saying.

There is a world of difference between open seating diners being placed at an empty table in the fixed dining room, especially at the time fixed diners are arriving, and open seating passengers being placed at a larger fixed seating table when only 1-2 of the usual diners there are elsewhere that night.

Both of which are completely different from a dining room that's a total mix every night.

When open seating passengers are placed at an unoccupied table in fixed, at the same time fixed seating passengers arrive, the flow of seating, ordering, serving, is not disrupted.

For open seating passengers to be seated well outside the standard time, throws the schedule off completely. And for open seating passengers to be placed in a couple of empty seats at a table where people have gotten to know each other a bit, throws off the dynamic of that table, and is awful for the people who eat together every night.

 

I can envision a procedure where open seating has some defined tables in the fixed seating area, if demand on that particular cruise makes sense. The stewards are already used to handling open seating, so this doesn't change that, so long as it isn't the same stewards working fixed and open at the same time.

But separation for the stewards' responsibilities is essential no matter where any of the passengers sit.

[OlsSalt]

Yes...yes. Send the anytime diners to the Lido. How dare those peons interrupt our fixed dining experience by invading our dining room as we sit above the masses sipping our glasses of wine!

 

Oh.....perhaps you could throw a few crumbs of bread down from above while we anytime diners wait until we too can devour a few left over morsels of food! Talk about attitude!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

I hope you take the time to read the entire context of this string of comments. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[OlsSalt]

What a bunch of malarkey. Open or fixed, we all have a "right" to dine where we want. If my open presence interrupts any fixed diners, well I guess they will just have to get used to it. If they offer it , we will come. We may even have the nerve to take the two empty seats at your fixed table when someone goes to another dining venue. Just saying.

 

Just saying, but it was the open-seating diner who felt neglected when seated in the fixed dining venue. Please read the original complaint and that it may be a warning of what it can be like if you are given the option to be seated somewhere in the middle of the fixed-dining service delivery schedule.

[OlsSalt]

It was not my intent when I started this thread to revive what appears to be an ongoing feud among anytime and fixed diners.

 

My comments were meant to share my disappointment in the MDR that I personally experienced on the Koningsdam on the cruise I was on.

 

We have dined in anytime and fixed on previous cruises and were always happy with our choice.

 

It was a later entry that brought in the issue of disappointment when he as an open seating diner got seating in the middle of the fixed dining delivery - felt neglected and claimed the stewards were also over-stressed having to break their own routine and work around the new anytime diners in this setting.

 

The later poster who felt he had a negative experience with this option pointed out some possible drawback to this accommodation for all concerned, particularly the wait staff. Discussion was intended to be whether this was good HAL policy or not.

 

Then it took a few wrong turns but maybe we can get it back on course - (1) good policy or not overall and (2) if offered a table in the middle of the fixed dining time would it be better to wait until you got a table in the anytime dining section.

[taxmantoo]

It was a later entry that brought in the issue of disappointment when he as an open seating diner got seating in the middle of the fixed dining delivery - felt neglected and claimed the stewards were also over-stressed having to break their own routine and work around the new anytime diners in this setting.

 

The later poster who felt he had a negative experience with this option pointed out some possible drawback to this accommodation for all concerned, particularly the wait staff. Discussion was intended to be whether this was good HAL policy or not.

 

Then it took a few wrong turns but maybe we can get it back on course - (1) good policy or not overall and (2) if offered a table in the middle of the fixed dining time would it be better to wait until you got a table in the anytime dining section.

 

As the OP clearly stated "My comments were meant to share my disappointment in the MDR that I personally experienced on the Koningsdam on the cruise I was on."

I believe it is her right to do so and she has done so. I also believe any of us who can read have understood her post. Can we leave it at that.

Anyone wishing to have a discussion on the benefits or not of anytime dining vs fixed dining can start their own thread.

[OlsSalt]

As the OP clearly stated "My comments were meant to share my disappointment in the MDR that I personally experienced on the Koningsdam on the cruise I was on."

I believe it is her right to do so and she has done so. I also believe any of us who can read have understood her post. Can we leave it at that.

Anyone wishing to have a discussion on the benefits or not of anytime dining vs fixed dining can start their own thread.

 

It was clearly stated a later entry (which was re-quoted for clarity later) caused this discussion to go into the recent direction it took: wisdom of putting anytime diners into the fixed dining setting well after the start of the fixed dining time.

 

Agree, it would have been nice to have created a separate thread for this topic but these shifts do happen.

[cruisemom42]

 

Then it took a few wrong turns but maybe we can get it back on course - (1) good policy or not overall and (2) if offered a table in the middle of the fixed dining time would it be better to wait until you got a table in the anytime dining section.

 

Again (and yes I read your earlier disclaimer) I think this is the wrong way round of looking at this practice.

 

Most "Anytime" diners won't know whether they are being offered a table in the middle of a fixed dining section or not. And if they do know -- let's say they somehow know enough to ask the person seating them -- then the next people in line will still be brought to the same table that the first diners rejected, and so on.

 

Also, what would be the acceptable amount of time before one "caves" and accepts a table in the fixed dining area -- after you've turned down two tables? three tables? Suggesting that one should go and dine in the Lido is not at all appropriate, in my opinion.

 

I would suggest that the better way to proceed would be for fixed dining patrons (or Anytime patrons, though it seems likely to be less noticeable to them) to make it known to the head waiter if the practice is causing a disruption and also for anyone impacted to make their displeasure clearly known while onboard and on the post-cruise survey.

[slidergirl]

Again (and yes I read your earlier disclaimer) I think this is the wrong way round of looking at this practice.

 

Most "Anytime" diners won't know whether they are being offered a table in the middle of a fixed dining section or not. And if they do know -- let's say they somehow know enough to ask the person seating them -- then the next people in line will still be brought to the same table that the first diners rejected, and so on.

 

Also, what would be the acceptable amount of time before one "caves" and accepts a table in the fixed dining area -- after you've turned down two tables? three tables? Suggesting that one should go and dine in the Lido is not at all appropriate, in my opinion.

 

I would suggest that the better way to proceed would be for fixed dining patrons (or Anytime patrons, though it seems likely to be less noticeable to them) to make it known to the head waiter if the practice is causing a disruption and also for anyone impacted to make their displeasure clearly known while onboard and on the post-cruise survey.

 

Right you are again, cruisemom! As long as fixed dining patrons are allowed to select a specific table for their meals for the entire cruise, there will be empty tables spaced around the MDR. To leave these empty while there are diners waiting patiently for a table does not make sense. Perhaps, once the number of tables are figured out for the fixed (easily done pre-cruise by the staff), those tables could be all clumped together in a portion of the MDR and those would be assigned. The other tables would be together and available for anytime diners. That way, there would be no co-mingling, but little bit of segregation for those who want the old-style dining apart from the rest of the diners. The staff would already be assigned to table stations, so there would be no need to rush between fixed and anytime tables.