Infinity Going To The Dogs?

[Safety Squirrel]

On the Princess boards - there is a 'tongue in cheek' post called "Can I bring my tuba on board and practice/play on the balcony" Post is made is jest and most posts are quite funny.

 

Thought I would copy one post here

 

"I think the tuba would only be allowed if it's a certified Emotional Support Instrument"

On a more serious note, I was flying a few months ago and had pre-boarded. It was a small plane with only two seats on either side of the aisle. A couple (also pre-boarded) with two German Shepherds and sat across the aisle from me. The female got in first and the dog laid at her feet. The male then sat down with the other dog at his feet. I talked to them and they were trainers of dogs for the visually impaired. The dog with the female was under one year of age and they were bringing the dog on its first flight to train.

 

The dog being trained one time moved around to get into a better position. The handler spoke to the dog in a quiet voice and s/he went back to sleep. The dog on the aisle seat -- never moved throughout the trip (3 hours) and occasionally just opened their eyes as the flight attendants went by.

 

The couple explained to me that they had been training service dogs for quite a few years and some service dogs need to be trained to fly if their new owner flies. The 'dog in training' was going to their new owner in a couple of weeks.

 

If you had not seen the couple and the dogs board -- you would not have known they were on the flight - and many passengers did not see them when they boarded as they were already at the feet of their trainers. They told me that they would then be the last to get off the flight.

 

As mentioned previously -- true service dogs are trained.

[TeeRick]

This sounds like the same woman/dog we used to see on RCI cruises (a few years ago). We once met her sister (who was also on one of her cruises) who told us her sister (the one with the dog) was the "nut of the family" and a person she avoided. The problem is that their are very few rules and laws about what constitutes a Service Dog. Folks can simply go online and buy a Service Dog vest or collar, and call their dog a service dog. Cruise Lines (and some other public venues) are afraid to deal with the legal fallout...so simply look the other way.

 

But its not just dogs. Consider the problem on many ships with the proliferation of electric scooters. In some cases, these are great devices which allow their users to do things that would otherwise be impossible. But now there are many folks who rent those devices because they simply do not want to walk around a large ship. Many of these folks have no clue how to drive these scooters and accidents are no longer uncommon. Anyone who has almost been crushed by a scooter flying into an elevator knows about what I speak. But again, the cruise lines are afraid to deal with the issue. That is until Viking Cruises...who simply prohibits the scooters on their vessels. it will be interesting to see what happens to that line when they try breaking in the North American market and have to deal with ADA laws and advocates. Right now their official policy is that Motorized Scooters are not "suitable" for International cruises. When it comes to dogs, Viking says they can only accommodate "certified" therapy and seeing eye dogs. But how they deal with "certified" is a question.

 

Hank

 

Hank- very interesting about the scooters. It seems they are everywhere. Many are legitimate but how do the cruise lines verify this? Or will they let anybody rent a scooter and bring it on board with no ground rules? Perhaps Viking has gone too far but there should be at least some criteria and maybe they will be very specific in setting their criteria. That would be the key. In general if a scooter person on a ship backs into you or knocks you over or runs over your feet in the elevator, I would guess they do not routinely use a scooter in non-cruise life. Maybe that should be a big clue!

[RocketMan275]

 

But its not just dogs. Consider the problem on many ships with the proliferation of electric scooters. In some cases, these are great devices which allow their users to do things that would otherwise be impossible. But now there are many folks who rent those devices because they simply do not want to walk around a large ship. Many of these folks have no clue how to drive these scooters and accidents are no longer uncommon. Anyone who has almost been crushed by a scooter flying into an elevator knows about what I speak. But again, the cruise lines are afraid to deal with the issue. That is until Viking Cruises...who simply prohibits the scooters on their vessels. it will be interesting to see what happens to that line when they try breaking in the North American market and have to deal with ADA laws and advocates. Right now their official policy is that Motorized Scooters are not "suitable" for International cruises. When it comes to dogs, Viking says they can only accommodate "certified" therapy and seeing eye dogs. But how they deal with "certified" is a question.

 

Hank

Perhaps the cruise lines should require some proof of at least basic training to operate these scooters and some insurance for injuries resulting from their operation?

 

Those operating those scooters should be limited in their alcohol consumption too.

[johhnnyt]

Exactly, Cruisestitch. They have to allow it. Emotional support animals do not need special training. They actually don't need to have had ANY training. There are only two questions a business can ask regarding services animals, and ONLY if it's not obvious what the animal is there for. 1. Is the animal required for a disability? 2. What has the animal been trained to do? They can't ask what the disability is... so #1 is a yes or no answer. #2 can be a simple "give comfort" answer. That's it. There are, of course, documentations necessary... a health certificate, for example, in order to fly or board a cruise ship. You can't just show up with one. But no documentation is required proving the animal is a "service" animal. It's a very large pet peeve of mine that people would bring a pet they don't want to leave at home and call it a service animal. I'm not saying THIS lady is doing this. I have no way of knowing (no one does)... but it happens and it really irritates me.

 

SO SAD and SO TRUE:(

There are several bills that hopefully will curtail the people taking advantage in the loopholes, claiming their pets provide some type of service, anyone whos ever owned a pet can make the same claim.

There has been 1000% increase in California alone in the number of “therapy dogs” or “emotional support animals” registered by animal control facilities in the state. All it takes is send $25 or $30 to some bogus company and they send you a vest.

In Massachusetts, a House bill seeks to apply a $500 fine to pet owners who even falsely imply that their animal may be a service dog. In California, the penalty is $1,000 and up to six months in jail. Twelve states now have laws criminalizing the misrepresentation of a pet as a service animal.

I hope more states follow suit as it gives the average person the wrong impression of the actul miraculous service, a true service animal can provide to a person with an actual disability.

I wish I could take my dogs on vacation with me too, but its a rather self serving sentiment for both the pet and the owner, unless the animal is properly trained for the task

[dkjretired]

SO SAD and SO TRUE:(

There are several bills that hopefully will curtail the people taking advantage in the loopholes, claiming their pets provide some type of service, anyone whos ever owned a pet can make the same claim.

There has been 1000% increase in California alone in the number of “therapy dogs” or “emotional support animals” registered by animal control facilities in the state. All it takes is send $25 or $30 to some bogus company and they send you a vest.

In Massachusetts, a House bill seeks to apply a $500 fine to pet owners who even falsely imply that their animal may be a service dog. In California, the penalty is $1,000 and up to six months in jail. Twelve states now have laws criminalizing the misrepresentation of a pet as a service animal.

I hope more states follow suit as it gives the average person the wrong impression of the actul miraculous service, a true service animal can provide to a person with an actual disability.

I wish I could take my dogs on vacation with me too, but its a rather self serving sentiment for both the pet and the owner, unless the animal is properly trained for the task

 

The problem with these laws for service dogs is they are basically unenforceable since under Federal law you can’t ask for documentation. How do you prove they are not service dogs.

[Loujul]

There should be an animal advocate on board to check to make sure these poor animals are not being abused by their owners. I was on the Infinity this past September and a woman was holding a little Yorkie under her arm for at least 45 minutes while her husband competed in an activity. My heart broke for this little dog. [emoji174]

 

 

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[Bo1953]

There should be an animal advocate on board to check to make sure these poor animals are not being abused by their owners. I was on the Infinity this past September and a woman was holding a little Yorkie under her arm for at least 45 minutes while her husband competed in an activity. My heart broke for this little dog. [emoji174]

 

 

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I will gladly sign up for that position... :D

 

bon voyage

[NLH Arizona]

The problem with these laws for service dogs is they are basically unenforceable since under Federal law you can’t ask for documentation. How do you prove they are not service dogs.

Not to mention that businesses are afraid to confront these offenders, because they threaten them with a lawsuit.

[PROCRUISE]

This is the problem with Celebrity, they won't kick the dog off even when it is allowed under ADA rules and regulatiions. I would suggest, if someone sees the dog doing his business in an inappropriate place, they complain to guest services and if it continues, simply take a picture and send it to the health department of the first US port you go to.

 

I don't care if the woman needs the dog for comfort, it is not a service dog, because a service dog is trained not to bark (unless alerting the owner to a medical issue), growl, do business unless commanded to in the proper place, etc.

 

I have two trained comfort dogs, not for myself, but to visit my current seven hospice patients. Needless to say, I'd never bring them on a cruise ship since, while they are my pride and joy, they are not specifically for my comfort and, they are large, mature Siberian Huskies! However, if I did bring them on board, they would be quiet, extremely well behaved, NOT fed in the MDR, NOT relieving themselves around the ship and would be a joy to anyone they met on the ship.

The woman in question here is most likely abusing the system and it sounds like she is the one who needs some training!

[HokiePoq]

Problem is you have not read some of the previous threads on this woman. The dog also pees on the walls and other undesirable actions. Problem is this is not a service dog and unlike what someone posted about, the cruise line has no obligation to accept support dogs, they do not qualify under the ADA. I stand behind what I said earlier, this woman has some kind of special status with the cruise line and the cruise line does not want to have negative publicity.

 

Here's a link to the ADA rules, please note there is a section where the dog and handler can be excluded if they are not trained, etc. that is the cruise lines out if they choose to.

 

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

 

I think you are right about this person's status. Most of us would likely not be tolerated under these circumstances.

The emotional support dog I come into contact with belongs to a vet with post-traumatic stress syndrome. It is superbly trained, accompanies the vet everywhere, and never disrupts anything.

[HokiePoq]

At work, a true service dog came to a meeting. You would not have known the dog was in the room for a lengthy meeting. Now on our cruise ship, this lady brought a dog wearing clothing in a carriage, took it in the buffet line, and the dog ate what she had gotten for the dog by the table. Dog left in the stroller.

 

Exactly. We have been on a trip which included a cruise out of Rome with a fellow that had a real service dog. You would not have known the dog was with us. It laid quitely under the airplane seat the whole trip and was not in any way disruptive on the cruise.

These imposters make things more difficult for those who really need service animals.

[NLH Arizona]

I think you are right about this person's status. Most of us would likely not be tolerated under these circumstances.

The emotional support dog I come into contact with belongs to a vet with post-traumatic stress syndrome. It is superbly trained, accompanies the vet everywhere, and never disrupts anything.

PTSD is a covered disability under ADA, thus I would guess that his dog is a true service dog, not an emotional support dog.

[johhnnyt]

Exactly. We have been on a trip which included a cruise out of Rome with a fellow that had a real service dog. You would not have known the dog was with us. It laid quitely under the airplane seat the whole trip and was not in any way disruptive on the cruise.

These imposters make things more difficult for those who really need service animals.

 

I've had the same experience. Service dogs are either on duty or off duty. When on duty they provide service, you hardly even notice them. They aren't held or petted, they don't drink or eat, or poop. They are highly trained to provide their designated partner with the help he/she needs while on duty. When off duty, they are released into their pet mode, where they get the love/attention/food/etc like any other pet might.

[NLH Arizona]

I have two trained comfort dogs, not for myself, but to visit my current seven hospice patients. Needless to say, I'd never bring them on a cruise ship since, while they are my pride and joy, they are not specifically for my comfort and, they are large, mature Siberian Huskies! However, if I did bring them on board, they would be quiet, extremely well behaved, NOT fed in the MDR, NOT relieving themselves around the ship and would be a joy to anyone they met on the ship.

The woman in question here is most likely abusing the system and it sounds like she is the one who needs some training!

Wouldn't your dogs be considered therapy dogs, since they visit hospice? Therapy dogs are well trained and the hospitals, nursing homes, etc, here require that they have taken a therapy dog class (something my Sadie could never pass).

[rumpelstiltskin]

Was on two Celebrity cruises recently.

 

Saw a visually impaired passenger dining in a specialty restaurant. His guide dog, a large lab, slept under the table. Had I not seen the dog, I would've been unaware of its presence.

 

Saw another large lab in the buffet. It was overly friendly & sniffed at other passengers as they walked past with their plates of food.

 

Although it was on leash, there was no vest/harness/etc to identify as a service dog. And judging by the "look at me & my doggy" attitude of the owner...I suspect the dog is his pet that he was too cheap to pay boarding/pet sitter fees.

 

I love well behaved dogs, but I do not trust attention demanding dogs or their owners.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I would suggest, if someone sees the dog doing his business in an inappropriate place, they complain to guest services and if it continues, simply take a picture and send it to the health department of the first US port you go to.

 

Especially California port. California law states that if someone is passing off their pet as an ESA/service animal...they can be fined up to $1000 & face 6 months in jail.

[mailmama]

Was on this cruise. Sat near the lady one afternoon. She told group it was husbands dog. Few minutes later she left and he said it was her dog. At least get your lies straight!! Definitely just a spoiled pet for a spoiled wife.

 

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[dkjretired]

Especially California port. California law states that if someone is passing off their pet as an ESA/service animal...they can be fined up to $1000 & face 6 months in jail.

 

Florida is very similar, the problem with these laws is how do officials determine the dog is not a service animal. It is illegal to ask for any type of documentation and therein lies the problem.

[riclop]

Mrs. Trap and I are currently (Nov. 17) on The Infinity and entering the Panama Canal tomorrow morning. Excellent cruise with a great housekeeping staff, waitstaff, and crew. The Entertainment Staff, led by Luigi, needs to kick it up a few notches in order to be considered average.

 

Well, there is one lady on board the ship who has her "emotional support dog" with her in a doll buggy. The dog is a chichuhua mix of a couple of breeds. It is a noisy dog, barking at guests and even growling if they get close. Nasty little critter. The woman even takes it to the MDR and cuts up meat for it and puts the meat in a bowl in the buggy for the animal. She will not leave the dog alone in the cabin because it barks!

 

Why does Celebrity allow this animal? It is not a service dog because it does not provide a service as described by the ADA.. She either is too cheap to board the dog or "off" enough to think she cannot travel without it. Stay home!

Totally agree

[rvmike]

If I was at dinner and somebody was feeding the so called service animal my NAVY vocabulary would come out.

[begagirl]

Just a question. Who is responsible if one of these dogs bites a passenger or if a passenger is injured by someone using a mobility scooter?

[gerelmx]

Does the dog pay the fare and gratuities?

[gerelmx]

It has always been mentioned that Chihuahuas are good for asthma.

It is not a service dog is a companion dog.

[dkjretired]

Just a question. Who is responsible if one of these dogs bites a passenger or if a passenger is injured by someone using a mobility scooter?

 

A little off topic but I have been forced on occasion recently to use a scooter mostly when going to some of the big box stores. You would not believe how stupid people are when you are driving one of these scooters. They walk in front of you, cut across because they need at that moment to get to the other side of the aisle, things they would not do if there was just a person there instead of a person in a chair.

[ghstudio]

Florida is very similar, the problem with these laws is how do officials determine the dog is not a service animal. It is illegal to ask for any type of documentation and therein lies the problem.

 

Actually, there is a very simple test anyone can give. Ask the individual if their dog is a service dog. I've found that 99% of the people who just answer yes actually have a service dog. They love their animals and love to talk about them. I've found that 99% of the people who have "fluffy" with them become hostile, point out the laws on service dogs, won't talk about the dog, etc.

 

Try it.....you actually won't offend anyone with a real service dog...(and by the way, there's no law that stops you and me from asking anything we want).

 

Occasionally, when I have nothing better to do, I'll walk up to someone in a restaurant (or food store) and ask about their service dog. I've ruined more than a few lunches....and I enjoy seeing them fume at me for having the nerve of asking.