America's Test Kitchen IMHO

[arzz]

The following are excerpts from My "Merry Prinsendam Blog":

 

"Since we are five star mariners we were invited to a cooking class by America's Test Kitchen. Last night we received two lovely red Test Kitchen aprons along with a reminder of the time and location. When I arrived at the Wajang theatre the doors were closed with a "private event" sign taped to them. I was prepared to be wowed.

 

In retrospect I am not sure why we got the aprons except that they are a nice five star perk since the presentation was entirely a demonstration by the professional chef and prerecorded videos. Homemade stuffed pasta in brown butter sauce was prepared, recipes were distributed, and all we got to do was watch - not even taste the prepared food. A mildly entertaining production with a large hint of "so what?" We might as well have been watching on our cabin TV. I did, however, learn that there are 65 five star mariners aboard on this cruise."

 

And again from my final blog entry at the end of our cruise:

 

"I think America's Test Kitchen is simple minded and speaks down to us all. It operates under the incredible assumption that everything they prepare and recommend is the "world's best." How can that be true for what is probably the most subjective venue on this planet: Food!

 

Their presentation to the 5 star mariner group was half "canned" (on tape) and equally simple. The presentations shared on the cabin TV's - the same -- with the addition of choosing the "world's best products" according to their taste testers - where the best product had it name and label shown repeatedly. Do these companies pay to have their products displayed and touted?

 

What is probably the most offensive about America's Test Kitchen to me is that my email address has been sold to them by HAL, and I now not only receive junk email from ATK, but also from two additional gourmet food sites (Zwilling J.A. Henckels, and D'artagnon). This is not behavior that I would expect from the premium cruise line that I always assumed HAL to be.

 

What ever happened to those wonderful guest chefs - their sophisticated demonstrations and cooking classes that made HAL's on board offerings unique? I used to watch those on our cabin TV and learn. That was fun. America's Test Kitchen is insulting."

 

OK - other opinions, or is America's Test Kitchen too new on board for many to know?

[3rdGenCunarder]

I haven't experienced ATK, but I have to say I'm disappointed to hear how it has changed from the previous version (Culinary Center?) I did a class (the class that you pay for, not the free demos) on two past cruises, and loved it. I was lucky in that there was a guest chef each time. It's hard to say which was better, the cooking, or the conversations over lunch.

[sahara1]

I haven't experienced ATK, but I have to say I'm disappointed to hear how it has changed from the previous version (Culinary Center?) I did a class (the class that you pay for, not the free demos) on two past cruises, and loved it. I was lucky in that there was a guest chef each time. It's hard to say which was better, the cooking, or the conversations over lunch.

Please take the time to write the President and let him know your feelings. Thank you.

[SilvertoGold]

We, too, are receiving ATK (and Cooks) emails, out of the blue. I assume it is HAL, but don't actually know for sure. There are a lot of attempts in these emails to get me to pay for subscriptions and buy cookbooks.

 

I do find some of the recipes quite good and some of the tips excellent, so I do open these emails.

 

I am of two minds about the ATK on board:

 

1. I thought the old Culinary Arts Cooking classes were sometimes/often poorly produced (not enough utensils, not the right utensils, missing ingredients); not enough room for everyone; the Chef Tournants who ran these classes, with the exception of one, didn't come prepared, didn't "teach". But wine and lunch in the Pinnacle were great! It was fun, with good conversation (+gossip), especially if you get a good group of pax. As 5 stars we appreciated this reward.

 

2. ATK: I agree with what Arzz has said. ATK is not an improvement, as I see it, over the Culinary Arts classes. I am sure HAL thinks it "more professional" an offering. I would prefer to have the Pinnacle lunch included.

 

However, it does free up HAL's chefs for other things or time off (guests chefs are not on all cruises, so HAL uses their own chefs mostly). The ATK format may also get all those pesky 5 stars to give up on it, thereby making more room for actual paying customers.

I'd say it is a clever marketing approach from HAL's point of view.

[Ichiban Nekko]

Hi Roxanne! Five-Star Mariners! That's a long way from our 7 days on the Amsterdam, lo those many years ago! :D

 

I think you raise some very interesting and valid and comments. And of course, since you write SO well, that makes those comments even more germane.

 

I happen to be an ATK/Cooks Illustrated/Cooks Country fan - watch them on TV, have some of the cookbooks, use their website extensively. That being said, I think I would be sorely disappointed with an experience similar to yours. Like others, I urge you to contact management with your comments. Surely, they would take note of well-presented constructive comments from a 5-Start Mariner.

 

Best wishes,

-Cat

[Sea42]

How disappointing to hear. I enjoyed the cooking classes that I took where you actually participated and were able to eat what you made. Those were fun!

[Krazy Kruizers]

As a 5 star Mariner, on a couple of ships we did get a call about wanting to know if we wanted to do the Culinary Arts class -- which we turned down -- had other things we wanted to do.

We have never watched America's Test Kitchen. So really can't comment about it.

But I have read what others have said about the ATK on HAL and many were not positive.

Just to let you all know years ago we had a couple of guest chefs on a couple of cruises. And they were 10 day cruises. We thought for certain that on our 21 day cruises (which we did quite a few) that there would have been a guest chef -- nope. We could never figure out how HAL chose which itinerary/ship selected to have the guest chefs.

Please OP -- write to HAL and tell them about your experience with America's Test Kitchen.

[Flatbush Flyer]

The following are excerpts from My "Merry Prinsendam Blog":

 

 

 

"Since we are five star mariners we were invited to a cooking class by America's Test Kitchen. Last night we received two lovely red Test Kitchen aprons along with a reminder of the time and location. When I arrived at the Wajang theatre the doors were closed with a "private event" sign taped to them. I was prepared to be wowed.

 

 

 

In retrospect I am not sure why we got the aprons except that they are a nice five star perk since the presentation was entirely a demonstration by the professional chef and prerecorded videos. Homemade stuffed pasta in brown butter sauce was prepared, recipes were distributed, and all we got to do was watch - not even taste the prepared food. A mildly entertaining production with a large hint of "so what?" We might as well have been watching on our cabin TV. I did, however, learn that there are 65 five star mariners aboard on this cruise."

 

 

 

And again from my final blog entry at the end of our cruise:

 

 

 

"I think America's Test Kitchen is simple minded and speaks down to us all. It operates under the incredible assumption that everything they prepare and recommend is the "world's best." How can that be true for what is probably the most subjective venue on this planet: Food!

 

 

 

Their presentation to the 5 star mariner group was half "canned" (on tape) and equally simple. The presentations shared on the cabin TV's - the same -- with the addition of choosing the "world's best products" according to their taste testers - where the best product had it name and label shown repeatedly. Do these companies pay to have their products displayed and touted?

 

 

 

What is probably the most offensive about America's Test Kitchen to me is that my email address has been sold to them by HAL, and I now not only receive junk email from ATK, but also from two additional gourmet food sites (Zwilling J.A. Henckels, and D'artagnon). This is not behavior that I would expect from the premium cruise line that I always assumed HAL to be.

 

 

 

What ever happened to those wonderful guest chefs - their sophisticated demonstrations and cooking classes that made HAL's on board offerings unique? I used to watch those on our cabin TV and learn. That was fun. America's Test Kitchen is insulting."

 

 

 

OK - other opinions, or is America's Test Kitchen too new on board for many to know?

Real cooking school? Cruise on Oceania's Marina or Riviera where you'll find a dedicated modern hand-on lab with full time instructors.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Flatbush Flyer

[Flatbush Flyer]

Forgot to add: chef-led regional excursions (shop/cook/eat) on all Oceania ships (as well as numerous cooking demos for all passengers).

Oceania well deserves its reputation for "the best food at sea."

[3rdGenCunarder]

We, too, are receiving ATK (and Cooks) emails, out of the blue. I assume it is HAL, but don't actually know for sure. There are a lot of attempts in these emails to get me to pay for subscriptions and buy cookbooks.

 

I do find some of the recipes quite good and some of the tips excellent, so I do open these emails.

 

I am of two minds about the ATK on board:

 

1. I thought the old Culinary Arts Cooking classes were sometimes/often poorly produced (not enough utensils, not the right utensils, missing ingredients); not enough room for everyone; the Chef Tournants who ran these classes, with the exception of one, didn't come prepared, didn't "teach". But wine and lunch in the Pinnacle were great! It was fun, with good conversation (+gossip), especially if you get a good group of pax. As 5 stars we appreciated this reward.

 

2. ATK: I agree with what Arzz has said. ATK is not an improvement, as I see it, over the Culinary Arts classes. I am sure HAL thinks it "more professional" an offering. I would prefer to have the Pinnacle lunch included.

 

However, it does free up HAL's chefs for other things or time off (guests chefs are not on all cruises, so HAL uses their own chefs mostly). The ATK format may also get all those pesky 5 stars to give up on it, thereby making more room for actual paying customers.

I'd say it is a clever marketing approach from HAL's point of view.

 

(bold is mine} Too funny! The second time I did the class, I had to get on a waiting list. I found that odd, since I asked about it quickly after boarding. I did "make the cut," and on the day, I heard a woman complaining about how she had to wait to find out if she could do the class because "all those 5-stars get first shot at it." Until then, I had no idea it was a 5-star perk. On our Alaska cruise this summer I asked about the classes, but what they were cooking didn't interest me, so I didn't bother to get on the waitlist.

[SilvertoGold]

(bold is mine} Too funny! The second time I did the class, I had to get on a waiting list. I found that odd, since I asked about it quickly after boarding. I did "make the cut," and on the day, I heard a woman complaining about how she had to wait to find out if she could do the class because "all those 5-stars get first shot at it." Until then, I had no idea it was a 5-star perk. On our Alaska cruise this summer I asked about the classes, but what they were cooking didn't interest me, so I didn't bother to get on the waitlist.

 

Waiting lists: as a 5 star I can tell you about waiting lists. Used to be we had to get on a waiting list for the old Culinary Arts classes. At one time, apparently, HAL would (maybe) put on another class if there was great demand. It seemed to be first come, first served then. We always got a places in a class, but were never guaranteed a spot. Now, we get invitations, so it works better for us pesky 5 stars!

 

I'm glad my post gave you a laugh!

[IrwinE]

This sounds like the same ATK program (different dishes) we recently attended that was open to all. Your 5 star "peskiness" deserves better.

[dee2673]

Forgot to add: chef-led regional excursions (shop/cook/eat) on all Oceania ships (as well as numerous cooking demos for all passengers).

Oceania well deserves its reputation for "the best food at sea."

 

I'm sure it does but Oceania cost is not in my budget. Kudos to you, though

 

We were the first people on board and in The Neptune Lounge on our Mexican cruise last year. ATK was already sold out. Sounds like the experience the OP had was the free to all one. Hoping on our Feb 14 cruise that there will be room and we will gladly pay. I'd love to provide an opinion..:D.

[1ANGELCAT]

This 5 Star has done the class 3 times. Most recently on the Westerdam’s crossing back to Florida in November.

That class was the best of the 3, this was the cake decorating program.

We were split into teams of 2 and each team got a cake to frost and decorate.

The other 2 classes were pasta and eggs.

It is a different concept from the old CAC program , but I enjoyed it .

 

 

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[Flatbush Flyer]

I'm sure it does but Oceania cost is not in my budget. Kudos to you, though

 

 

 

We were the first people on board and in The Neptune Lounge on our Mexican cruise last year. ATK was already sold out. Sounds like the experience the OP had was the free to all one. Hoping on our Feb 14 cruise that there will be room and we will gladly pay. I'd love to provide an opinion..:D.

 

 

 

You may want to do the bottom line math: here's a comparison from last week for a guy considering a cruise on RCL for a family of four at a little over $3000 BEFORE adding airfare, internet, beverages, et al. That easily would have put his bottom line trip total at about $6000.

 

Here below is the text of my post to him/her showing that the net costs for EVERYTHING was about the same for his family of four (in essence, his $3000 mass market cruise would really be about $6000 when all costs were added. I.e., about the same a the O Inclusive pricing):

 

If you want value (the most bang for your buck), compare the net daily rate of Oceania to higher end mass market lines: Yes, the O cabin price may be higher but, if you include all the other costs you'll incur on a mass market line vs O's higher cabin price with few if any extra charges, you may be surprised.

 

For example:

 

I just randomly selected a 10 night Miami-Miami Caribbean cruise in April 2018 on Oceania.

 

If I take the air credit, the cost per person for a double occupancy inside cabin is $1600 per person x 4= $6400 for TWO cabins. With the right TA, you could get at least a 5% "first time Oceania customer discount" at $320. Net is now $6080. This fare has "O Life" perks with one choice being $600 per cabin OBC. So, subtract another $1200 and net to you is now $4880. Subtract $25/day for each cabin for unlimited internet = $500. Net now $4380. Most top O TAs (or consortia to which they belong) will, at least, cover gratuities $16/person/day = $640. Net to you now $3740.

 

Assuming you need to pay extra on a mass market line for all but the most basic non-alcoholic beverages, I'm conservatively guessing another $10/person/day for that = $400, which is included on O. Net cost to you now $3340.

 

Back to the TA. A top seller of O cruises should be able to do a commission share of at least 5% of the commissionable fare. Conservatively, figure at least $250 in refundable OBC or a rebate.

 

You are now at $3090 total for a total of four people in two cabins and we haven't even considered the value of eating as often as you may choose (if time flexible) in specialty restaurants that would cost extra on RCI. Nor have we looked at the far better O quality of food, bedding, service, blah, blah, blah.

 

As for no slides for teens: that time could be spent prepping for those SATs by attending the onboard lecturers usually being done by retired college profs. (Don't think I've ever heard of college scholarships for "water sliding."

 

BTW, want that balcony? Add about $1700 per cabin or just get one balcony and one inside and save some money.

 

I did the math in my head so I apologize for any errors. Nonetheless, when you compare all associated costs/freebies, you'll find that Oceania is value laden.

 

HAL may not be as inexpensive as you think.

 

 

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[kazu]

I'm sure it does but Oceania cost is not in my budget. Kudos to you, though

 

We were the first people on board and in The Neptune Lounge on our Mexican cruise last year. ATK was already sold out. Sounds like the experience the OP had was the free to all one. Hoping on our Feb 14 cruise that there will be room and we will gladly pay. I'd love to provide an opinion..:D.

 

Apologies for going off topic - but dee, could you look at the Future Cruise Listing and confirm the # of days your cruise is please? I didn't realize there were so many itineraries on the same day for the Eurodam. Thank you :)

 

As to the Culinary Class:

 

I liked HAL's culinary class. It was excellent.

 

I'll agree to disagree with O's "best food at sea" and culinary class. I signed up for 3 and cancelled the following 2. Unlike HAL, you share in the food you have prepared. We had Noro on board, need I say anymore?

 

I didn't eat the food - I left.

 

I much preferred HAL's approach of not eating the food that you prepare but rather, having it prepared for you.

 

I am not keen at all on the new America's Test Kitchen approach. Another 5* Mariner benefit down the drain.

[sail7seas]

I think he whole guest chef and cooking demos are ridiculous. meaning less things t thye ghrfow ogether and make su think they are really offering somehting . For those that enjoy it, fabulous, Personally, I don't go on cruises for cooking lessons, or for "O: : rolleyes: In some cases, I htink I may be a better cook than some of those 'pros.

 

HAL's Five Star benefits are sounding worse and worse to me. :(

But I am happy OP got the aprons and hope they enjoy them as nice momento from their cruise.

[Sea42]

Real cooking school? Cruise on Oceania's Marina or Riviera where you'll find a dedicated modern hand-on lab with full time instructors.

Sounds great, I'm looking forward to it!

[dee2673]

"Apologies for going off topic - but dee, could you look at the Future Cruise Listing and confirm the # of days your cruise is please? I didn't realize there were so many itineraries on the same day for the Eurodam. Thank you :)"

 

We were originally booked on the Veendam to the Caribbean., Then Cuba happened and they cancelled our cruise so they could send the Veendam there. We re-booked on the Eurodam but it may be that there was another cruise happenig before Cuba. Does that make sense? I'll go check the future cruise listing but it is 11 days.

[arzz]

I appreciate evrerybody's comments - however, I fail to understand how this thread morphed into comparing the perks, costs and benefits of Oceania to Holland America.

 

The intent was to discuss America's Test Kitchen (a new product for us on HAL) versus the old HAL Culinary Arts Program. I am really interested to hear what others have to say about this program. I also agree that they have possibly dumped a rather nice 5* perk into the toilet ... HAL needs to revisit this.

 

Oceania is a different product in many ways (one, in fact, that we have experienced and rejected) - and a topic for a different thread.

[Flatbush Flyer]

Apologies for going off topic - but dee, could you look at the Future Cruise Listing and confirm the # of days your cruise is please? I didn't realize there were so many itineraries on the same day for the Eurodam. Thank you :)

 

 

 

As to the Culinary Class:

 

 

 

I liked HAL's culinary class. It was excellent.

 

 

 

I'll agree to disagree with O's "best food at sea" and culinary class. I signed up for 3 and cancelled the following 2. Unlike HAL, you share in the food you have prepared. We had Noro on board, need I say anymore?

 

 

 

I didn't eat the food - I left.

 

 

 

I much preferred HAL's approach of not eating the food that you prepare but rather, having it prepared for you.

 

 

 

I am not keen at all on the new America's Test Kitchen approach. Another 5* Mariner benefit down the drain.

 

 

 

You must be the exception since O's culinary center does not suggest/encourage that you trade the food you've touched/prepared with others in the class (though you can have a family member join you and try what you've made at the end of class). And it cannot leave the Culinary Center. This is part of their overall commitment to food safety which, for example includes no passengers self-serving themselves in the cafeteria style Terrace Grill.

As for the "best food at sea" moniker, you'll have to argue that with the likes of Condé Nast Traveler, Bon Appetit, et al.

 

 

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[Underwatr]

I'm less familiar with ATK's operations over the past 3-5 years but generally they have had a policy of not accepting advertising from the products they test (you'll note that they don't test dishwasher, large kitchen appliances or the other products who have a short ad at the beginning of their PBS program). At least in the past a product recommendation from ATK was due to the results of their testing as published in one of their magazines.

 

I'd expect that their hand-on demos would be given at a more rudimentary level than the recipes that they demonstrate in front of an audience but I haven't experienced them.

[dee2673]

You may want to do the bottom line math: here's a comparison from last week for a guy considering a cruise on RCL for a family of four at a little over $3000 BEFORE adding airfare, internet, beverages, et al. That easily would have put his bottom line trip total at about $6000.

 

Here below is the text of my post to him/her showing that the net costs for EVERYTHING was about the same for his family of four (in essence, his $3000 mass market cruise would really be about $6000 when all costs were added. I.e., about the same a the O Inclusive pricing):

 

If you want value (the most bang for your buck), compare the net daily rate of Oceania to higher end mass market lines: Yes, the O cabin price may be higher but, if you include all the other costs you'll incur on a mass market line vs O's higher cabin price with few if any extra charges, you may be surprised.

 

For example:

 

I just randomly selected a 10 night Miami-Miami Caribbean cruise in April 2018 on Oceania.

 

If I take the air credit, the cost per person for a double occupancy inside cabin is $1600 per person x 4= $6400 for TWO cabins. With the right TA, you could get at least a 5% "first time Oceania customer discount" at $320. Net is now $6080. This fare has "O Life" perks with one choice being $600 per cabin OBC. So, subtract another $1200 and net to you is now $4880. Subtract $25/day for each cabin for unlimited internet = $500. Net now $4380. Most top O TAs (or consortia to which they belong) will, at least, cover gratuities $16/person/day = $640. Net to you now $3740.

 

Assuming you need to pay extra on a mass market line for all but the most basic non-alcoholic beverages, I'm conservatively guessing another $10/person/day for that = $400, which is included on O. Net cost to you now $3340.

 

Back to the TA. A top seller of O cruises should be able to do a commission share of at least 5% of the commissionable fare. Conservatively, figure at least $250 in refundable OBC or a rebate.

 

You are now at $3090 total for a total of four people in two cabins and we haven't even considered the value of eating as often as you may choose (if time flexible) in specialty restaurants that would cost extra on RCI. Nor have we looked at the far better O quality of food, bedding, service, blah, blah, blah.

 

As for no slides for teens: that time could be spent prepping for those SATs by attending the onboard lecturers usually being done by retired college profs. (Don't think I've ever heard of college scholarships for "water sliding."

 

BTW, want that balcony? Add about $1700 per cabin or just get one balcony and one inside and save some money.

 

I did the math in my head so I apologize for any errors. Nonetheless, when you compare all associated costs/freebies, you'll find that Oceania is value laden.

 

HAL may not be as inexpensive as you think

 

 

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You may be on to something here. Just did a quick look it wasn't as bad as I thought. Only thing is we will like our balcony and bigger room on HAL. We book an aft wrap NS whenever we can. We get a lot of OBC from our TA so drinks are covered as well as speciality dining. But I am going to look into for a future cruise. Thanks for doing the math. It makes sense

[aliaschief]

The Prisendam just does not have space the other ships have to compliment and participate in Culinary events.

 

We did enjoy the post demonstration lunch in the Pinnacle but the venue limits participation like on other ships.

[RuthC]

The Prisendam just does not have space the other ships have to compliment and participate in Culinary events.

I disagree with that observation. The Wajang Theatre on the Prinsendam is smaller than on the S- and R-class ships, true, but the passenger base is smaller, too. Proportionally, they are pretty equivalent.