America's Test Kitchen IMHO

[sail7seas]

I appreciate evrerybody's comments - however, I fail to understand how this thread morphed into comparing the perks, costs and benefits of Oceania to Holland America.

 

The intent was to discuss America's Test Kitchen (a new product for us on HAL) versus the old HAL Culinary Arts Program. I am really interested to hear what others have to say about this program. I also agree that they have possibly dumped a rather nice 5* perk into the toilet ... HAL needs to revisit this.

 

Oceania is a different product in many ways (one, in fact, that we have experienced and rejected) - and a topic for a different thread.

 

 

I can name three CC 'ers tthat sail HAL and were disappointed with their cruises on Oceania.

[Flatbush Flyer]

You may be on to something here. Just did a quick look it wasn't as bad as I thought. Only thing is we will like our balcony and bigger room on HAL. We book an aft wrap NS whenever we can. We get a lot of OBC from our TA so drinks are covered as well as speciality dining. But I am going to look into for a future cruise. Thanks for doing the math. It makes sense

 

 

 

Oddly enough, it was a TA who was a former CD on HAL who got us to consider O over HAL. When we did the bottom line on similar itineraries from "fly to" international ports and compared the dollar values of all we would use/do, the price was a wash (and seriously, the Oceania food/service is stellar). We have met quite a few former HAL and Celebrity folks who have tried and now frequently enjoy O.

BTW, on the two larger ships (Marina and Riviera), there's a section of B3 cabins with "extended" balconies (more than twice the depth and big enough for two loungers plus two chairs). B3 is at the lower half cost of the basic verandas (B1-B4) but those with the extended balconies have more exterior space than concierge and penthouse cabins.

Finally, "O" top selling TAs (Connoisseurs Club) are paid at the upper end of a sliding scale and often will share commissions as a rebate or refundable OBC.

If nothing else, worth a chat with your TA.

 

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[albingirl]

I was terribly disappointed in the Test Kitchen recently. I miss the old culinary arts center with a host and guests. The Test Kitchen is repetitive on a long cruise and not entertaining at all. IMHO

[Sea42]

I appreciate evrerybody's comments - however, I fail to understand how this thread morphed into comparing the perks, costs and benefits of Oceania to Holland America.

 

The intent was to discuss America's Test Kitchen (a new product for us on HAL) versus the old HAL Culinary Arts Program. I am really interested to hear what others have to say about this program. I also agree that they have possibly dumped a rather nice 5* perk into the toilet ... HAL needs to revisit this.

 

Oceania is a different product in many ways (one, in fact, that we have experienced and rejected) - and a topic for a different thread.

 

I was disappointed to hear about the change in the cooking "classes" on HAL but was grateful to hear that Oceania still offers that kind of experience.

[kazu]

You may be on to something here. Just did a quick look it wasn't as bad as I thought. Only thing is we will like our balcony and bigger room on HAL. We book an aft wrap NS whenever we can. We get a lot of OBC from our TA so drinks are covered as well as speciality dining. But I am going to look into for a future cruise. Thanks for doing the math. It makes sense

 

If you book a PH/PS (forget the right term, sorry - think it is PH) on Oceania (not the same as a PS on HAL ;) ), while it is a bit smaller than a Neptune on HAL, it is VERY well laid out and feels very spacious.

 

The verandah is not as large as a Neptune of course, but the room was very, very nice.

 

Pretty sure I posted pics on my Live thread at the time.

[Epicureangirl]

 

I happen to be an ATK/Cooks Illustrated/Cooks Country fan - watch them on TV, have some of the cookbooks, use their website extensively. That being said, I think I would be sorely disappointed with an experience similar to yours. Like others, I urge you to contact management with your comments. Surely, they would take note of well-presented constructive comments from a 5-Start Mariner.

 

 

 

I agree. I am a fan, I learned to cook using a Cooks Illustrated subscription and their cookbooks. I would have expected the Test Kitchen to be one of my cruise highlights. Not even getting a taste of the food would have also been sadly disappointing.

 

 

 

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[GateGuardian]

I was on the Eurodam in April and over the Christmas holiday and they switched over to ATK in between. the cooking show now has a host that cooks at the same time instead of 1 host and 1 chef. There's no more free sample to taste test, but I think the food or a similar variant is offered in the Lido Market for lunch.The video on the product guide is pretty informative. Overally, I don't mind the change, but would be much better if we get to taste the food during the show :)

[bUU]

What ever happened to those wonderful guest chefs - their sophisticated demonstrations and cooking classes that made HAL's on board offerings unique?

Did they perhaps get moved to Seabourn?

 

Oceania is a different product in many ways (one, in fact, that we have experienced and rejected) - and a topic for a different thread.

I disagree. The question asked was, essentially, "Why are things different?" There are two answers to that question, which are, invariably, "competition" and (most notably in this situation) "market segmentation". Like it or not, Holland America is not the top-shelf brand in CCL's stable anymore. From just about every first-hand disagreement with criticisms about deliberate changes, posted in recent years, it sounds like it is morphing into the kind of cruise line that appeals to my spouse and I more so than the people it used to appeal to - and we just had a great time on a Carnival cruise. Edited January 6, 2018 by bUU

[aliaschief]

I disagree with that observation. The Wajang Theatre on the Prinsendam is smaller than on the S- and R-class ships, true, but the passenger base is smaller, too. Proportionally, they are pretty equivalent.

 

The cooking counter could barely accommodate one chef! So I’m not sure where we could participate with prepping as we have on other ships.

 

We were attending the Four Star+ invited Cooking Demo.

 

We have been to many and the Prisendam was the first time we just watched the chef cook.

 

We were told and apologized too by the Culinary Events person that it was because of lack of space that we could not participate.

 

Still enjoyed the presentation during a day at sea.

Edited January 6, 2018 by aliaschief

[SetAnOpenCourse]

Did they perhaps get moved to Seabourn?

 

I disagree. The question asked was, essentially, "Why are things different?" There are two answers to that question, which are, invariably, "competition" and (most notably in this situation) "market segmentation". Like it or not, Holland America is not the top-shelf brand in CCL's stable anymore. From just about every first-hand disagreement with criticisms about deliberate changes, posted in recent years, it sounds like it is morphing into the kind of cruise line that appeals to my spouse and I more so than the people it used to appeal to - and we just had a great time on a Carnival cruise.

 

Was there a cooking class on your Carnival cruise? Learning to make nachos and wings would be fun. (Just kidding, I've never been on Carnival, and should probably try one of their shorter, weekday cruises, one of these days.)

[kazu]

The cooking counter could barely accommodate one chef! So I’m not sure where we could participate with prepping as we have on other ships.

 

We were attending the Four Star+ invited Cooking Demo.

 

We have been to many and the Prisendam was the first time we just watched the chef cook.

 

We were told and apologized too by the Culinary Events person that it was because of lack of space that we could not participate.

 

Still enjoyed the presentation during a day at sea.

 

Interesting Chief, thanks for sharing that info.

 

So, I wonder if it works differently on the other ships with ATK, then?

[OlsSalt]

I appreciate evrerybody's comments - however, I fail to understand how this thread morphed into comparing the perks, costs and benefits of Oceania to Holland America.

 

The intent was to discuss America's Test Kitchen (a new product for us on HAL) versus the old HAL Culinary Arts Program. I am really interested to hear what others have to say about this program. I also agree that they have possibly dumped a rather nice 5* perk into the toilet ... HAL needs to revisit this.

.......

 

Having experienced both good and awful prior culinary demos on a whole variety of HAL ships, I felt the ATK was a vast improvement for its consistency and professionalism. I always picked up new info or techniques. However, since we do several cruises a year we noticed there are now all repeats of prior ATK on the new cruises we take - over at least a 6 month period.

 

We also had to laugh as the 5 star perk since they scheduled those classes during port days when we were very unlikely to take them. However this time I did take one offered in Costa Maya - (kind of a ho hum port) and did the All about Eggs class - we really did not do much hand-on. Mixed up some mayonaise and squirted fillings into deviled eggs, but also picked up several good technique tips so it was not a total waste of time. But calling this a value-added, hands on cooking experience would be a stretch. Glad I got it for free.

 

I suggested a larger inventory of classes in the future on my cruise evaluation to cover those of us who do several cruises a year. But also agree, bringing back the more hand-on and dining experience would be a far better value added extra. Whether this is a 5 star perk or not is of no consequence. By 5 star status for us, we are already hooked on the basics of HAL cruising for plenty of other reasons so the extra perks do not keep us making the HAL choices.

 

Even the 4-star "free" laundry really does not make much sense when you compare it to the approx $20 stuffed bag costs. My "free laundry" now does take two days to come back on our past two cruises, probably because there are now so many 4-5 star mariners on board at the same time. So plan accordingly.

 

I have not noticed any additional emails but we are already ATK Cook's magazine subscribers and I enjoy their approach to cooking very much.

 

So personally I would just put this into the category of changes are sometimes good, sometimes not so good but this one is certainly not a deal breaker for our own choice of HAL cruises. What I miss most are the occasional staff mystery box cook-offs when the length of the cruise and the chemistry of the staff is just right. Otherwise, they became one more waste of time. The worst past experiences were when one had to question why the culinary person even got hired since they were quite willing to admit they knew nothing about cooking and only badly narrated some pretty awful staff presentations.

[SilvertoGold]

Having experienced both good and awful prior culinary demos on a whole variety of HAL ships, I felt the ATK was a vast improvement for its consistency and professionalism. I always picked up new info or techniques. However, since we do several cruises a year we noticed there are now all repeats of prior ATK on the new cruises we take - over at least a 6 month period.

 

We also had to laugh as the 5 star perk since they scheduled those classes during port days when we were very unlikely to take them. However this time I did take one offered in Costa Maya - (kind of a ho hum port) and did the All about Eggs class - we really did not do much hand-on. Mixed up some mayonaise and squirted fillings into deviled eggs, but also picked up several good technique tips so it was not a total waste of time. But calling this a value-added, hands on cooking experience would be a stretch. Glad I got it for free.

 

I suggested a larger inventory of classes in the future on my cruise evaluation to cover those of us who do several cruises a year. But also agree, bringing back the more hand-on and dining experience would be a far better value added extra. Whether this is a 5 star perk or not is of no consequence. By 5 star status for us, we are already hooked on the basics of HAL cruising for plenty of other reasons so the extra perks do not keep us making the HAL choices.

 

Even the 4-star "free" laundry really does not make much sense when you compare it to the approx $20 stuffed bag costs. My "free laundry" now does take two days to come back on our past two cruises, probably because there are now so many 4-5 star mariners on board at the same time. So plan accordingly.

 

I have not noticed any additional emails but we are already ATK Cook's magazine subscribers and I enjoy their approach to cooking very much.

 

So personally I would just put this into the category of changes are sometimes good, sometimes not so good but this one is certainly not a deal breaker for our own choice of HAL cruises. What I miss most are the occasional staff mystery box cook-offs when the length of the cruise and the chemistry of the staff is just right. Otherwise, they became one more waste of time. The worst past experiences were when one had to question why the culinary person even got hired since they were quite willing to admit they knew nothing about cooking and only badly narrated some pretty awful staff presentations.

 

Excellent post!

 

We miss the Mystery Box, Captain's (or other high Officer's) cooking demo and the ones pitting staff from one department against those from another. These are always fun and get big crowds, but are not something you see any longer, even when there are so many sea days it would be a no-brainer to include some of these events.

 

I think one of the new directions for HAL is to keep officers out of view, away form the pax and possibly give them more time off. The Captain's reception is a prime example: how many Captains have I experienced who did not seem to want to do these and finished them off in under 5 minutes? Someone in Seattle is now listening to the higher officers on this score, I think.

 

Anyways, the ATK is an interesting free event for us, so we'll go and observe the how it continues to be handled.

[arzz]

As an FYI, on our holiday Prinsendam cruise laundry turnover was less than 24 hours. Since we're fly to cruises this perk is really important to us.

[SilvertoGold]

As an FYI, on our holiday Prinsendam cruise laundry turnover was less than 24 hours. Since we're fly to cruises this perk is really important to us.

 

I think more than 24 hrs is unusual for the laundry return. I can remember only once since the Star Program started that it took more than that and it was about one and a half days. A super Star reward for us!

[OlsSalt]

I think more than 24 hrs is unusual for the laundry return. I can remember only once since the Star Program started that it took more than that and it was about one and a half days. A super Star reward for us!

 

We may be counting the days differently. We too got used to same day service which we loved - drop it in the morning and back that same evening. But on our last three cruises now since August 2017 (Rotterdam-Maasdam-Veendam), we more typically and now consistently on this last Veendam cruise get it back on the "second day".

 

As noted at least two of those cruise had a lot of 4-5 star Mariners onboard. Like 800 on the Rotterdam Voyage of the Vikings - could that have made a difference. And then we had to have two Mariner luncheons for this last Veendam to Cuba,

 

Here is my experience: Drop it off in the morning with the cabin steward - not back that night, not back the whole next day - then gets delivered sometime during the day after. So maybe that is a day and half later or is it two days later? Used to hang it on the cabin door knob but that was discouraged a few cruises ago - now it is left in the cabin for the steward to put into the system (who knows when?)

 

We also noticed they have a new laundry form that is titled "Complimentary Laundry" for the 4 star Mariner perk, so no more price list or need to leave this empty with the 4 star no cost explanation.

[geoherb]

Thanks for posting about ATK. Our last HAL cruise was nearly a year ago on the Zuiderdam. We enjoyed the culinary hostess. Her daily activities were one of the highlights on a ship that did not have many activities.

 

I did one of the hands-on cooking classes several years ago on the Westerdam. I talked DH into doing one with me on the Veendam after that. Sometime in between the two classes was when they changed it from eating what we cooked to being served the same dishes after the class in the Pinnacle Grill. I learned more in the first class and still occasionally cook one of the dishes (shrimp with a curried mango butter).

[Sea42]

 

I did one of the hands-on cooking classes several years ago on the Westerdam. I talked DH into doing one with me on the Veendam after that. Sometime in between the two classes was when they changed it from eating what we cooked to being served the same dishes after the class in the Pinnacle Grill. I learned more in the first class and still occasionally cook one of the dishes (shrimp with a curried mango butter).

That was delicious!