Lifeguards

[BillOh]

We always say it must be the most boring job there is. But I love that is has stopped kids from running around the pool. !

 

 

This hasn't been my experience so far. Let's see see 3 cruises now seeing lifeguards. I've never seen a lifeguard on duty correct a kid or adult for running or horseplay. They seem purely concentrated on looking for someone in distress in a pool. They do seem be very attentive, trained, and frequently rotated. As John mentioned in a previous post, I've seen them talk to guests or other crew without taking their eyes off the pool.

 

My only objection to the life guards is probably with the cost, I think they are closing some pools earlier. On Jewel the entire solarium was closed at 9pm. Especially when the main pool area was loaded with people watching movies for an hour at a time. The notion that life guards meant fewer pool waiters was stupid and was probably just bait many of you bit on.

[orville99]

This brings up a point I noticed with the lifeguards. They are told to watch for people in trouble and that only. Probably a good thing, but having grown up with lifeguards at pools, they were also enforcers, yelling at people clowning around and running and other things they shouldn't. On Majesty in 2016 or maybe it was 17 I saw two kids dragging a kid who was screaming that he couldn't swim into a pool within 25 ft of one of their life guards. The kid jumped might back out of the pool, upset, but ok. The lifeguard didn't flinch. I'm sure if the kid didn't come up he would have been right there, but clearly they aren't stopping rough horseplay.

 

A well-trained guard has one responsibility - to prevent drowning. I always started my training sessions with a simple reminder of that singular responsibility to my students: an effective lifeguard is a dry lifeguard. They are trained to divide a pool into segments (usually 4-6 segments/guard) and constantly move their focus from segment to segment in a pre-determined order. Their purpose is to first do a "segment head count", and then to look for any warning signs of distress. With a crowded pool, a lifeguard has neither the time nor the luxury of looking anywhere but towards one of those segments. My best estimate is the guard you referenced was doing his/her segment rotation, and had not gotten back to that specific segment when the child went into the water, but I can guarantee his/her view would have been there within a few moments.

[reallyitsmema]

A well-trained guard has one responsibility - to prevent drowning. I always started my training sessions with a simple reminder of that singular responsibility to my students: an effective lifeguard is a dry lifeguard. They are trained to divide a pool into segments (usually 4-6 segments/guard) and constantly move their focus from segment to segment in a pre-determined order. Their purpose is to first do a "segment head count", and then to look for any warning signs of distress. With a crowded pool, a lifeguard has neither the time nor the luxury of looking anywhere but towards one of those segments. My best estimate is the guard you referenced was doing his/her segment rotation, and had not gotten back to that specific segment when the child went into the water, but I can guarantee his/her view would have been there within a few moments.

 

We were very impressed with the lifeguards on the Radiance last week. Standing in the water in Alaska, always watching the pool can't be easy.

 

We were having breakfast at Park Café one morning and heard a loud splash and then a whistle. One lifeguard went running out of the Solarium, blew his whistle and the lifeguards from outside came running back into the Solarium with him. All of these lifeguards then joined the lifeguard who was in the pool holding up the "victim" lifeguard. They got a backboard and removed the victim from the pool, the whole time doing rescue breaths with masks. The drill continued on with CPR and packaging the victim for transport. The whole drill was being filmed by someone who we later saw in the Crown Loft working on a laptop doing some kind of report.

All involved knew their role and worked like a well oiled machine. From the looks on the faces of the guys coming into the Solarium, it did not look like they knew there was going to be a drill, they were very intense and serious when they came running in which is why we got up to see what was going on.

[orville99]

We were very impressed with the lifeguards on the Radiance last week. Standing in the water in Alaska, always watching the pool can't be easy.

 

We were having breakfast at Park Café one morning and heard a loud splash and then a whistle. One lifeguard went running out of the Solarium, blew his whistle and the lifeguards from outside came running back into the Solarium with him. All of these lifeguards then joined the lifeguard who was in the pool holding up the "victim" lifeguard. They got a backboard and removed the victim from the pool, the whole time doing rescue breaths with masks. The drill continued on with CPR and packaging the victim for transport. The whole drill was being filmed by someone who we later saw in the Crown Loft working on a laptop doing some kind of report.

All involved knew their role and worked like a well oiled machine. From the looks on the faces of the guys coming into the Solarium, it did not look like they knew there was going to be a drill, they were very intense and serious when they came running in which is why we got up to see what was going on.

 

Not surprised by the looks on their faces. Drills are rarely (if ever) pre-announced. We often used life-sized mannequins (from infant to adult) that were designed to sink, and "snuck" them into the pool while the lifeguard's view was obstructed. My guess is the film was being reviewed either by someone from the agency that trained the lifeguards or by the supervisor responsible for maintaining the LG training standards on the ship. (And we were always training and testing).

[WisconsinFan]

I understand where you are coming from here, but what happens if they have a heart attack in their cabin? Or sitting on the sun deck?

 

Should we close the sun deck when staff isn't able to be present on the off chance that someone might have a medical emergency up there?

 

It just seems kind of... Unnecessary to me to close an adult pool due to lack of lifeguards, when no other adult areas are closed when staff isn't around. Accidents and tragedies can and do happen outside of the pools too. Why is drowning something we're enthusiastic about addressing to the point of closing venues, but none of the other potential dangers are?

 

If you have a heart attack or fall and knock you self silly on dry land, you are not going to drown. You might actually be lucky enough to survive those on dry land. Have a heart attack IN THE pool, slip IN THE pool and not have anyone around to see you- then I think you are going to drown. I am a former lifeguard (both pool and great lake) and the parent of a lifeguard who worked at the the "largest waterpark" in the US. I get it, it is not going to happen to you, nor to any of your friends or family members. I can't tell you the number of times I pulled someone out of the pool or the lake, my son worked the big wave pools and he pulled many people out daily. One time I ended up saving someone off of our boat, in 6 feet of water. An "adult" managed to float in over their heads and panicked at an unprotected beach. My goal as a lifeguard, and my son's goal when he was working was not to get wet.

 

 

Those talking about how they rotate pools and such- that is to help them stay fresh. On the great lake, the normal sized pool or the big wave pools rotations happen as well- but just stations/stands. Disney, Royal and Norwegian all have guards now.

[DrD]

When we were on the Grandeur in December, we talked extensively to the LG Supervisor. We were often the only ones in the hot tub late in the evening watching movies and got to know her quite well. (We also had a son her age.) Being a lifeguard for RCL does NOT suck. lol They rotate pools every 30 minutes and take turns opening and closing the pool. They have no other responsibilities, so when the pool is closed, they are doing continued training or are completely off. They also take turns rotating their off time when they are in ports, so everyone gets can see different places. As a supervisor, she had a cabin to herself. They participate in crew parties and do have decent down time. Living at home in her off time, with minimal expenses, she was socking away about 6 grand a month. Not a bad gig for a young person, even if you only did a few rotations.

 

Wow, do they have to be young? Is there an upper age limit? Time for a career change perhaps. ;)

[DrD]

It started about 3 years ago when a boy drown on the oasis in the little pool with a current. Do I think we should have life guards? No I think parents should have to watch their kids and be responsible instead of drinking all day. Everyone wants to sue and blame others when things go wrong. Own up.

 

 

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They should, but they don't, so lifeguards. It's not the kids' fault if their parents are negligent.

[griffy116]

I can't believe there is a post 7 pages long because someone is annoyed that there are lifeguards at the pools, making sure that someone doesn't drown because it might delay his drink order. I didn't read beyond page one, but I know that children have drown on cruise ships. I know that on every cruise, I've seen parents that send their kids to be pool and never even bother to stay anywhere near the pool. I've seen parents who have kids in the pool that are drunk and couldn't jump in and save them, even if they were capable of seeing them in trouble.

[reallyitsmema]

Not surprised by the looks on their faces. Drills are rarely (if ever) pre-announced. We often used life-sized mannequins (from infant to adult) that were designed to sink, and "snuck" them into the pool while the lifeguard's view was obstructed. My guess is the film was being reviewed either by someone from the agency that trained the lifeguards or by the supervisor responsible for maintaining the LG training standards on the ship. (And we were always training and testing).

 

My son was a lifeguard for many years and had a weighted dummy snuck into the pool he was guarding many times. They had to respond within a specified number of seconds, I forget how many, but it was a very short amount of time. He has guarded at a lake, pools and even a blow up water slide that had a one foot pool of water at the bottom of it.

[nav88]

Here's the ridiculous part....dad admits to becoming distracted, not watching his kid, and sues the cruiseline, that has the law on its side.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article145571359.html

 

The decision to hire lifeguards is an insurance policy and cost vs benefit, probably a cheaper alternative fleet-wide than paying someone a multimillion dollar payout for their own negligience.

 

Now can we get them to hire someone to fix this chair-hog issue......because lifeguards don't do that.

[Saab4444]

I can't believe there is a post 7 pages long because someone is annoyed that there are lifeguards at the pools, making sure that someone doesn't drown because it might delay his drink order. I didn't read beyond page one, but I know that children have drown on cruise ships. I know that on every cruise, I've seen parents that send their kids to be pool and never even bother to stay anywhere near the pool. I've seen parents who have kids in the pool that are drunk and couldn't jump in and save them, even if they were capable of seeing them in trouble.

 

 

 

This is not about drinks, please see posts 110 and 114. This is also not about the qualities and training of lifeguards. It is about how a cruise line develops its product and about the real motivation to do this. And the last post tells the truth...

 

 

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[bouhunter]

And the last post tells the truth...

 

 

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Whatever.....:rolleyes:

[Pratique]

It doesn't matter the reason, adding lifeguards is the right thing to do.

[Eslader]

If you have a heart attack or fall and knock you self silly on dry land, you are not going to drown. (snip) I get it, it is not going to happen to you, nor to any of your friends or family members.

 

I get the impression that you think you're arguing against me, but nothing in your post goes against what I've said.

 

 

Obviously, if you have a heart attack on dry land you are not going to drown. But you very possibly will die anyway if you do not receive medical attention.

 

 

The point that I am making is not that we shouldn't try to prevent drowning. As I've said several times, I'm all for lifeguards at the kid pools.

 

 

The point that I am making is that if you die, it doesn't really matter whether you died drowning or you died having a heart attack on the jogging track. You're dead either way.

 

 

There have indeed been cases of people dying by drowning on cruise ships. There have also been cases of people falling off of cruise ships and being lost at sea.

 

 

My question is why have we decided that it's very important to prevent drowning deaths in cruise ship pools by assigning staff members to protect them, while simultaneously saying that people who fall overboard are unworthy of such protection?

 

And the overall point there is that we should look at the number of incidents in a statistical format. I bet a study would discover that very few, if any, drowning incidents have occurred in adults-only pools on cruise ships. I bet a study would similarly discover that *far more* incidents of people falling overboard have happened than drowning incidents in adults-only pools.

 

It would therefore be a foregone conclusion that assigning a lifeguard to the adults only pool would be a misapplication of resources, since assigning those same people to monitor the open sides of the ship for people about to fall off would be more likely to prevent a death.

 

In short - protect the kids. That's a good idea. The adults in the solarium pool do not need the same level of protection as the kids in the regular pool.

 

 

Additionally, your argument for lifeguards kind of falls on its face when you consider that there are no lifeguards assigned to any of the hot tubs. The hot tubs have waist deep water which as you know having been a lifeguard is more than enough to drown someone in.

 

 

If the goal is to prevent any possibility of drowning, then it seems that the hot tubs should be guarded as well. It's not as though the solarium pool has a rip tide that will drag people under while the hot tubs are perfectly safe.

 

The lifeguard system as applied by Royal makes absolutely no sense. It is clearly implemented as legal butt-covering rather than actual sound life-saving policy, because the policy isn't sound at all. The solarium lifeguard would be much better used posted at the kid pool to back up the other life guard there. There are more people in that pool, there's more going on, and the young kids are more likely to get into trouble than the adults standing still in the adults-only pool.

[LMaxwell]

The lifeguard system as applied by Royal makes absolutely no sense. It is clearly implemented as legal butt-covering rather than actual sound life-saving policy, because the policy isn't sound at all. The solarium lifeguard would be much better used posted at the kid pool to back up the other life guard there. There are more people in that pool, there's more going on, and the young kids are more likely to get into trouble than the adults standing still in the adults-only pool.

 

I'd love to see the data you are pulling from

[SRF]

From pool drowning statistics, children, especially toddlers are more often victims of drowning. For several reasons.

 

But adults do drown.

 

And people do not just FALL off a ship. they have to work at it to get over the railings. My experience is, cruise ship railing are much taller than the international and US standards for buildings. So unless the railing fails, there is some other issue involved with someone going over the side.

 

And oh, they DO watch for overboards. That is why the cameras people talk about when they day to not engage in adult activities on the balcony. The cameras are NOT for watching the balconies, but for overboard situations.

[CarolSW]

Wow! And I thought the political polarization currently in full bloom was intense.

 

The arguments against these increased safety measures baffles me. As a counterpoint to the stance that employing lifeguards at the solarium pools is senseless unless we also have them at hot tubs I say this: I would favor stationing lifeguards at those hot tubs too except that I know it is unrealistic from a cost per passenger perspective. Many more passengers use the pools than the hot tubs simply due to size so of course the cruise line is trying to cover the most area they can within reason. And I thank them for it.

 

As for the “staring” at someone in a new bikini complaint.....I. Just. Can’t. Even.

 

Grabbing some popcorn now to enjoy the rest of the debate.....

[Paulxyz2004]

Wow! And I thought the political polarization currently in full bloom was intense.

 

The arguments against these increased safety measures baffles me. As a counterpoint to the stance that employing lifeguards at the solarium pools is senseless unless we also have them at hot tubs I say this: I would favor stationing lifeguards at those hot tubs too except that I know it is unrealistic from a cost per passenger perspective. Many more passengers use the pools than the hot tubs simply due to size so of course the cruise line is trying to cover the most area they can within reason. And I thank them for it.

 

As for the “staring” at someone in a new bikini complaint.....I. Just. Can’t. Even.

 

Grabbing some popcorn now to enjoy the rest of the debate.....

 

The rest of the debate was over more than 5 weeks ago already:rolleyes:

[CarolSW]

The rest of the debate was over more than 5 weeks ago already:rolleyes:

 

Thanks for pointing that out to me. I’m always a day late and a dollar short. Nothing to see here folks. Moving along and returning my popcorn....🤪

[Smiley525]

I’m just reading this thread too as I come back from my sons divisionals swimming meet �� Every afternoon after swim practice a group of 6 elderly people come to the pool and walk in the pool. Well 2 weeks ago one of them passed out and fell into the pool. It was quite a fiasco and was called into the Fire Department as a drowning. He was in there underwater for quite awhile before the lifeguards could figure out how to get him out (I wasn’t there but swim coach was). So bottom line again not only kids need lifeguards.