Lifeguards

[SRF]

Yes, really. People do fall off balconies. Unless they've found him, they're looking for someone right now who went overboard on a Carnival ship. Why is it OK for those people to fall off the ship and die? What's ludicrous is the idea that *only* pool drownings are tragic enough to do something about it. If we're going to eliminate the requirement that cruisers be responsible for themselves and their children, then we should be consistent about it and post crew anywhere someone could get hurt or killed, which includes all outward-facing areas of the ship.

 

 

Obviously, I'm not advocating that - I'm advocating a rational lifeguard policy. Lifeguards in the kid pools? Absolutely. Lifeguards watching people walk around in the solarium pool, never swimming because they have drinks in their hands? Well now that's kind of silly isn't it?

 

The falling versus jumping has been covered.

 

So a drunk adult who stumbles, falls, and drowns is OK with you?

[SRF]

You need trained pros watching a pool not turning around. Drowning is silent and people have drowned in pools full of other people. You’re seriously comparing RCI falling level of service to lifeguards being added???

 

I know of one hear drowning where the father was standing right next to the child talking to another adult and neither noticed. The child was face down in the water and not breathing. But was resuscitated.

 

Most people think that downing victims splash around and scream. They do not, they quietly slip below the surface and die.

[cruzeluver]

Lifeguards are good things, and their absence always struck me as a huge liability.

Not sure I would define their absence as a "huge liability". Less than 1% of 1% of folks cruising the globe have drowned in a cruise ship pool. Odds are indescribably in your favor that you will not drown.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

The falling versus jumping has been covered.

 

So a drunk adult who stumbles, falls, and drowns is OK with you?

 

Depends. What were they drinkng?

[orville99]

From BMJ Journal Injury Prevention (2004):

 

"These studies suggest that drowning is the overwhelming cause of death associated with recreational aquatic activity, that alcohol is detected in the blood of about 30%–70% persons who drown in association with recreational aquatic activity, and that alcohol probably contributes to between 10% and 30% of all recreational drowning deaths."

 

As a certified open water lifeguard and lifeguard instructor, training to detect alcohol impairment is a standard component of lifeguard training both for pools, open water, and surf certifications. The unfortunate reality is that more drunks drown than kids. I, for one, am very happy to see professional lifeguards on RCL ships.

[Big_G]

I'm a 1%er.

 

They give us giant sized cakes & pies.

They built us slides.

They put ice rinks on the ships.

They hung mega HD screens.

 

Why is anyone questioning the addition of LGs?

 

Maybe the complainers would be happier if they were included in the tipping pool...oh wait, probably not. :o

[Interstate]

Yes lifeguards save lives when needed.

 

Let us consider the displaced worker and increased fare arguments:

1. Limited crew berths and lifeboat capacity put a cap on how many crew can be hired. The addition of lifeguards may displace some crew and force departments to work harder, reducing efficiency and service.

 

2. Even if no displacement occurs, lifeguards have to be paid and fed which will raise cruise fares a/o lower quality. Fairly self-explantory; the extra $400/wk/LG and their cost of consumables has to come from somewhere either in higher fares or lower quality of products.

 

Counter 1. An extra minute for a drink means nothing nor do five-10mins added for supper vis-a-vis a life.

 

C2. The continual, but microscopic, cost of lifeguards will never add up to the tangible cost of even 1 liable death. Nevermind the intangible costs if liable deaths keep occuring. A full compliment of lifeguards adds less than a dollar per paying passenger

[SRF]

2 is a little off.

 

If not a lifeguard, some other staff would be in that berth and eating the food.

 

So the only cost difference is they difference in pay between who they displace and their salary.

[Eslader]

So a drunk adult who stumbles, falls, and drowns is OK with you?

 

You're putting words into what I say that aren't there. Of course I'm not OK, or happy, or any other pejorative emotion you wish to assign to me, when someone drowns.

 

 

That doesn't mean that I think it prudent to take extraordinary measures to prevent events that happen a vanishingly small percentage of the time. We don't need a lifeguard staring at the solarium pool. We don't need to close the pool at 8pm because the lifeguard is off duty.

 

 

Yes, this means that at some point someone somewhere might drown (but probably won't) in the solarium pool because they got drunk and made bad decisions.

 

Someone somewhere might climb over the railing on the pool deck and fall into the ocean because they got drunk and made bad decisions. Are you OK with people falling into the ocean and drowning?

 

If you advocate for lifeguards, but argue against railing guards, then you're admitting that there are some deaths which could technically be prevented given enough staff resources, but for which it is not worth devoting the staff resources to do so.

 

 

You've already admitted that some people are going to die and you're "OK," as you said, with it. We're just arguing over where to draw the line.

[Saab4444]

You're putting words into what I say that aren't there. Of course I'm not OK, or happy, or any other pejorative emotion you wish to assign to me, when someone drowns.

 

 

That doesn't mean that I think it prudent to take extraordinary measures to prevent events that happen a vanishingly small percentage of the time. We don't need a lifeguard staring at the solarium pool. We don't need to close the pool at 8pm because the lifeguard is off duty.

 

 

Yes, this means that at some point someone somewhere might drown (but probably won't) in the solarium pool because they got drunk and made bad decisions.

 

Someone somewhere might climb over the railing on the pool deck and fall into the ocean because they got drunk and made bad decisions. Are you OK with people falling into the ocean and drowning?

 

If you advocate for lifeguards, but argue against railing guards, then you're admitting that there are some deaths which could technically be prevented given enough staff resources, but for which it is not worth devoting the staff resources to do so.

 

 

You've already admitted that some people are going to die and you're "OK," as you said, with it. We're just arguing over where to draw the line.

 

Thank you, this is a balanced and fair summary of the situation and exactly what I meant with my original post.

 

The Solarium Pool on Independence is between 1.40 and 1.75 meters deep and children are not allowed. How realistic is a worst case scenario in that an adult, drunk or not drunk, drowns and does this really justifies all these lifeguards? It would be reasonable to have one lifeguard for the main pool deck, especially when kids are around and when it is crowded in warm waters. But four lifeguards at the same time on one deck and all pools closed when they are not on duty? If someone mentions the words safety and children no other argument appears to be allowed anymore.

 

Why do most cruise lines do not have lifeguards and don`t even think about this? How many accidents really happened? Or is this just implemented by Royal because of the risk of bad press and beeing sued under US law where even a coffee shop is made responsible for someone who burnt himself because he drank his coffee too hot?

[orville99]

Thank you, this is a balanced and fair summary of the situation and exactly what I meant with my original post.

 

The Solarium Pool on Independence is between 1.40 and 1.75 meters deep and children are not allowed. How realistic is a worst case scenario in that an adult, drunk or not drunk, drowns and does this really justifies all these lifeguards? It would be reasonable to have one lifeguard for the main pool deck, especially when kids are around and when it is crowded in warm waters. But four lifeguards at the same time on one deck and all pools closed when they are not on duty? If someone mentions the words safety and children no other argument appears to be allowed anymore.

 

Why do most cruise lines do not have lifeguards and don`t even think about this? How many accidents really happened? Or is this just implemented by Royal because of the risk of bad press and beeing sued under US law where even a coffee shop is made responsible for someone who burnt himself because he drank his coffee too hot?

 

Drowning has happened in as little as a few inches of water. Drinking is a leading cause of shallow water drowning deaths.

[Pratique]

OP why don't you just petition the cruise line to keep the Solarium pool open when it is unattended rather than trying to argue your case here?

[95south]

So your complaining because they're being extra safety minded and it's talking away from having more servers on the pool deck to serve you? I don't think the extras life guards are taking away from your poolside drinking and I would rather see more life guards than less like some cruise lines.

[Saab4444]

We do not care for poolside drinking and drinking much alcohol at all.

 

 

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[Saab4444]

Adults do not need lifeguards while swimming in a tiny pool and accidents can happen also when you cross a street or walk down some stairs.

 

 

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[WisconsinFan]

Adults do not need lifeguards while swimming in a tiny pool and accidents can happen also when you cross a street or walk down some stairs.

 

 

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Please tell me then why are there lifeguards at the Olympics? (never noticed them? they are there) You don't think Katie Ledecky, Ryan Lockte, Caeleb Dressel, or Cullen Jones (who by the way almost drowned as a child so he learned to swim) need a life guard as they are adults (who can swim at a high level).

 

 

If someone has a medical emergency- say a heart attack or stroke, or they slip and hit their head I would prefer to have a trained lifeguard.

[karena1]

We always say it must be the most boring job there is. But I love that is has stopped kids from running around the pool. That is how accidents happen. Now they stop them and tell them they cannot do that. We have seen it so many times, kids running all over around the pool, so very happy that has ended with the lifeguards there. They also have for the most stopped letting children with diapers and not potty trained from getting in the pool. So happy about that!!!!!

[reallyitsmema]

Adults do not need lifeguards while swimming in a tiny pool and accidents can happen also when you cross a street or walk down some stairs.

 

 

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Adults can drown in tiny pools just like they can drown in large pools and in the ocean.

[Eslader]

If someone has a medical emergency- say a heart attack or stroke, or they slip and hit their head I would prefer to have a trained lifeguard.

 

I understand where you are coming from here, but what happens if they have a heart attack in their cabin? Or sitting on the sun deck?

 

Should we close the sun deck when staff isn't able to be present on the off chance that someone might have a medical emergency up there?

 

It just seems kind of... Unnecessary to me to close an adult pool due to lack of lifeguards, when no other adult areas are closed when staff isn't around. Accidents and tragedies can and do happen outside of the pools too. Why is drowning something we're enthusiastic about addressing to the point of closing venues, but none of the other potential dangers are?

[PAcruiser19372]

What's wrong with a sign that says "No lifeguard on duty, swim at your own risk". Done everyday at apartment complexes and other places.

[BillOh]

When did Royal start with having all these lifeguards by the pools? Poor people standing there all day even when no one is even close to go into the water. This is ridiculous. And why one per pool? The pools are only 30 feet away from each other. They would just have to turn around to be there in 2 seconds if something happens. Because of costs I trust 5 lifeguards on a ship means 5 waiters less on the pool decks..

 

 

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I'm going to answer, and then read your replies. There has been at least 2 drownings on Royal ships in the past 5 years. I think the one that finally triggered the lifeguards was where a kid was at the bottom of a pool filled with adults who didn't see him under the water for a short time.

 

I first saw the life guards in Sept of 2016. On that cruise one lifeguard was watching the kids water area and the main pool on Majesty.

[BillOh]

When my daughter was younger, despite being an excellent swimmer, she was jumped on in the pool by two teenage boys who hurt her back and pushed her under. My husband was in the pool but it happened really quickly. No lifeguards to stop the teenagers running around the pool and running and jumping into the water.

 

.

 

 

This brings up a point I noticed with the lifeguards. They are told to watch for people in trouble and that only. Probably a good thing, but having grown up with lifeguards at pools, they were also enforcers, yelling at people clowning around and running and other things they shouldn't. On Majesty in 2016 or maybe it was 17 I saw two kids dragging a kid who was screaming that he couldn't swim into a pool within 25 ft of one of their life guards. The kid jumped might back out of the pool, upset, but ok. The lifeguard didn't flinch. I'm sure if the kid didn't come up he would have been right there, but clearly they aren't stopping rough horseplay.

[KamiKake]

When we were on the Grandeur in December, we talked extensively to the LG Supervisor. We were often the only ones in the hot tub late in the evening watching movies and got to know her quite well. (We also had a son her age.) Being a lifeguard for RCL does NOT suck. lol They rotate pools every 30 minutes and take turns opening and closing the pool. They have no other responsibilities, so when the pool is closed, they are doing continued training or are completely off. They also take turns rotating their off time when they are in ports, so everyone gets can see different places. As a supervisor, she had a cabin to herself. They participate in crew parties and do have decent down time. Living at home in her off time, with minimal expenses, she was socking away about 6 grand a month. Not a bad gig for a young person, even if you only did a few rotations.

[BillOh]

Again, I think both on the whole are a good thing. Certainly not expecting privacy, but having the guy stare at DW in her new bikini was a bit off putting.

 

 

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I apologize for that. Do you have a larger version of your profile pic ?:evilsmile:

[ONECRUISER]

I understand where you are coming from here, but what happens if they have a heart attack in their cabin? Or sitting on the sun deck?

 

Should we close the sun deck when staff isn't able to be present on the off chance that someone might have a medical emergency up there?

 

It just seems kind of... Unnecessary to me to close an adult pool due to lack of lifeguards, when no other adult areas are closed when staff isn't around. Accidents and tragedies can and do happen outside of the pools too. Why is drowning something we're enthusiastic about addressing to the point of closing venues, but none of the other potential dangers are?

People forget Royal pools use to close all the pools every nite, all nite. They would drain the water, put netting over it and was closed until 6am... Multiple high profile drowning deaths happened on multiple cruise lines. Lifeguards are here and they have it pretty good compared to most Lifeguard's...

Edited June 8, 2018 by ONECRUISER