IS THIS AN AZAMARA THREAT?

[tgg]

We received this email from Azamara today;  It references our Dec. 11 Cuba Intensive cruise. I've highlighted the section I'm concerned about in red. We planned to use private guides, as many people seem to have done. Does this mean that we have to prove that we have a private tour booked on the day of the Azamazing Evening in order to be allowed to attend?

 

Dear Azamara Guest,

We’re excited to welcome you aboard your Azamara Journey 10-Night Cuba Intensive Voyage on December 11, 2018 to discover the history, beauty and cultural riches of Cuba. Your voyage has been carefully planned to provide you with extra time ashore and countless opportunities to connect with the people and places that define Cuban heritage. With overnights in Havana and a day in Cienfuegos and Santiago de Cuba, you’ll stay longer so you can see, do and experience more.

As part of our promise to deliver an immersive journey, we’d like to remind you that the U.S. Government recently issued new regulations impacting travel to the island.

We want to make sure you fully understand these rules so that you’re assured a great visit without any disruptions. To go ashore in Cuba, you must meet one of three requirements. The first is the easiest – simply make sure you’re part of a tour that meets the standards for a U.S. sponsoring organization. You’re also free to go ashore if you qualify for one of the other categories for authorized travel or possess a license issued by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC).

We’re happy to assure you that every shore excursion booked through Azamara is in full compliance with these new regulations. Our team has taken special care to make sure you enjoy authentic and worry-free experiences in every port of call. Of course, you’re also welcome to purchase tours on your own. However, to avoid any surprises, we recommend confirming they also meet the guidelines for “a full-time schedule of educational exchange activities by a United States sponsoring organization.”

We also hope you’re looking forward to the AzAmazing Evening scheduled for our night in Havana. In order to bring you the best of the island, we’ve planned an incredible evening at The Grand Theater in Havana, which is home to the Cuban National Ballet and the International Ballet Festival of Havana. Watch in awe as the Lizt Alfonso Dance Cuba company perform their moving artistry in a setting that exudes elegance. The company's performances combine, in an original way, elements of flamenco, ballet, and contemporary dance with Spanish and Afro-Cuban rhythms.

This AzAmazing Evening does not meet the full-tour requirements set forth by the U.S. Government since we will be at port the whole day. Therefore, you will need to purchase a day tour to attend. This is a city brimming with history, art and culture, and, thanks to our overnight call, you’ll have extra time to discover it to the fullest. However, if you choose to skip our AzAmazing Evening and wish to explore Havana at night we have evening excursions available for purchase. We don’t want you to miss a thing, so please make sure your night tours are finalized, compliant and ready to go.

We’re excited to bring you the best of Cuba on your upcoming voyage. Should you have any questions, please contact us at AzamaraCustomerService@Azamara.com or at 1-855-AZAMARA and press menu option 3.

You can also visit our website for frequently ask questions.

Thank you for choosing Azamara. We look forward to welcoming you aboard in Miami.  

Warm regards,

 

Azamara Club Cruises

[jelayne]

We received the same email and I don’t perceive it to be a threat.  

It is advising us the  evening event by itself  doesn’t meet the US requirements under which AZ and other cruise lines are allowed to take tourists to Cuba.  Therefore, in order to meet the US imposed requirements, AZ can’t take passengers who want to attended the evening tour without doing a  AZ tour during the day or they would be violating the  requirements under which they are operating.  

 

When passengers do tours outside of the cruise line,  or go off on their own they are traveling under the Supporting the Cuban People provision, the individual is responsible to insure that they and any company/person they hire met the US requirements, do not go to banned sights, keep records of their activities.

 

While in reality from what I have read, no one from the US government is checking when you get off the ship, however they (US government) can audit after the fact if they so desire.  

 

I would guess that that the risk to Azamara of violating the provisions under which they are allowed to go to Cuba is a risk they are not willing to take.

 

i don’t think a private tour would satisfy the requirement as Azamara would not be in a position to verify that your guide or company met the requirements.  Hope I’m wrong for your sake.  Fortunately, we had a AZ tour booked for that day. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by jelayne

[agathasmum]

I am on a different cruise to you, but also heard from Azamara today, albeit with a different version of the letter. We have booked full day private tours with a guide who others on these boards have recommended, so are not concerned.

 

Here is how it's worded in our letter.

"Chances are, you’ve already booked an excursion independently or through Azamara for our call in Havana. If so, you’re good to go, as all tours booked through us fully satisfy OFAC requirements. However, if you haven’t booked your daytime excursions for Havana yet, please do so as soon as possible. You’re also welcome to purchase tours on your own as long as it’s a “people-to-people” tour that complies with the new regulations."

 

I am not anticipating any problems.

 

Susan

[donaldsc]

It is not a threat but they are explaining the rules that you must follow when you visit Cuba.  That is just the way it is under the current US government (not Cuban but US government) regulations.

 

Do not take this following stuff as a political comment as I am just explaining why there are strange rules for visiting Cuba.  For a very long time, the rule for visiting Cuba was that you had  to be part of a US Government approved people-to-people exchange and the tour companies had to register the tour with the US government and document that the tour was in compliance with these rules.  It was not difficult to be in compliance with the rules.  I visited Cuba once on a land tour and my brother visited Cuba twice.  As we traveled, our American guide kept track of all the people-to-people activities that we did and he had to report them at the end of the tour.  One thing that you could not do under the old rules was to go to a place like the beaches just for enjoyment. There had to be some officially approved reason for your visit and enjoyment was not one of them.

 

The other way that you could visit Cuba was to fly to Canada or to one of the Caribbean islands and fly to Cuba from there on an unauthorized tour.  The Cuban government basically did not care since you had to bring in hard currency when you visited, your passport was not stamped and nobody in the US government knew about your visit.  

 

For a short time under the previous administration, the rules for visiting Cuba were liberalized.  You did not have to be part of a US Government group.  You basically self reported to nobody that you were doing people-to-people stuff and there was a long list of stuff that counted as a people-to-people activity.   Again, the  Cuban government was happy about this as they had more visitors who brought in more hard currency.

 

When the current administration came into power, they changed the Cuba travel rules.  The current rules are more restrictive than the Obama era rules and are different from the pre-Obama era rules.  This article gives you a good idea what they are -  https://expertvagabond.com/travel-to-cuba-for-americans/.  This is an interesting part of the new rules - " Avoid staying at hotels banned by the US State Department and spending money at military-owned businesses."  Just in case you are interested in knowing what your Department of State has deemed it illegial to do business withn here is a link to the very long list of places that you are not allowed to stay in or do business with - https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/cuba/cubarestrictedlist/275331.htm. 

 

Sorry for being wordy but you asked.

 

DON

 

[ellbon]

Totally interesting OP post.  After my first trip by plane I have been back twice. So far I just got off ship and enjoyed my day. No one question me state side. Since I walke, took taxis, and ate no records. Sadly AZ does not have enough art,music tours to do. No more Jewish tour so many of us just do their own thing day and night. I wish there was an AZ Evening in. USA on my next cruise. So I really will not worry. 

 

I will I’ll just walk around and find a lunch place.

[mnocket]

I'm just back from Journey's first visit to Cuba 2 weeks ago.  There wasn't an Amazing Evening even though we had an overnight. That said, Azamara did make a hard sell for their tours - almost to the point that many felt this was the only way to get off the ship.  Purely a sales ploy.  As I expected from researching the issue, there was no need to use Azamara tours (which were hugely overpriced).  You could arrange your own private tours (which we did) or even take a self guided tour.  For US citizens the only requirement is that your activities satisfy the requirements of the "Support of the Cuban People" provision mentioned above.  The burden of compliance is with the individual travelers - not Azamara.  In fact the process of leaving the ship in Cuba was exactly the same as in any other port.  There were no checks by Azamara to see if you had a tour scheduled or not.  You did need a visa to get through Cuban customs/immigration.  There's confusion about this requirement too.  Azamara makes it sound like everyone needs to pony up $75 and buy a visa from them.  However, once the actual form is delivered to your cabin it does let you specify that you don't need one either because you don't intend to go ashore or you already have one (some travelers from the EU already got cheap visas before boarding the ship).

 

Now as for the Amazing Evening, as I said we didn't have one.  Perhaps since Azamara is hosting this event on shore and it doesn't meet the "Support of the Cuban People" guidelines, people would not be legally able to attend unless they also engaged in a full days activities that fulfilled the guidelines.  I haven't seen it stated in the regulation, but it seems that a full day is interpreted as 6 hours of activity.  Could Azamara take the position that since you're only allowed by the US government to attend our party if you spent a full day engaged in compliant activities - and the only way we can tell if you did is if you signed up for a tour with us - we therefore require you to take a tour with us in order to be admitted to our party? I guess they could take that position, but I doubt they will.  Azamara clearly states in the instructions they hand out prior to docking in Cuba that compliance with US regulations is the  traveler's responsibility and not Azamara's.  Notice that the OP's letter did not say that you needed to purchase a day tour from Azamara - you just needed to have one.  After we disembarked, the next cruise was a return to Cuba for a Cuba Intensive cruise.  They probably had an Amazing Evening and someone from that cruise could give a definitive answer (roll call?)/

Edited November 17, 2018 by mnocket

[ellbon]

My cruise does not have one in Havana but Columbia. I rather go to the theatre in Havana. It is lovely. I toured it last trip.  Toni, just speak to Heike abd I am sure it can be worked out.

[Covepointcruiser]

Did not know they ever offered a Jewish tour in Cuba.   Did they also have a Catholic or Muslim tour?    Hope Asmara does offer some interesting tours in Cuba as we have a $700 shore excursion credit and we would only use it in Cuba.

[tgg]

1 hour ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Did not know they ever offered a Jewish tour in Cuba.   Did they also have a Catholic or Muslim tour?    Hope Asmara does offer some interesting tours in Cuba as we have a $700 shore excursion credit and we would only use it in Cuba.

 

There is a Jewish tour listed in our shore excursion booklet. Here is the description:

 

Jewish Heritage Tour
Havana, Cuba - December 13, 2018
Code: N128
Prices: Adult 119.00 / Child 119.00 USD
Departure Times: Dec 13, 9:45 am; Dec 13, 1:45 pm;
Dec 14, 9:45 am
Duration: 5 hrs
Restrictions: N/A
Difficulty Level: Moderate
Embrace Cuba's rich Jewish heritage on a guided tour that takes you through the streets of Old Havana's
Jewish Quarter. You'll walk among the places and people that have helped shape Cuba's Jewish community for
generations. Hear stories from the locals and learn about the challenges the Jewish community faced in the
past, and still faces today. Your experience includes a tour of the spectacular Hotel Raquel, a breathtaking
example of Havana's Jewish influence, and a visit to a local synagogue for an authentic look at how faithful live
and worship on the island today. You'll also pay moving visits to a historic Jewish cemetery and Havana's
Holocaust Museum, a solemn reminder of the atrocities of World War II created by Cuba's small, but ever stalwart,
Jewish community. Regardless of personal faith, you'll head home with a new appreciation for Cuba's
Jewish community after this immersive and inspiring excursion.
 

[azdrydock]

Some excepts from OP

 

"….. We’re happy to assure you that every shore excursion booked through Azamara is in full compliance with these new regulations....This AzAmazing Evening does not meet the full-tour requirements set forth by the U.S. Government since we will be at port the whole day."

How can you say every excursion is compliant in one sentence and say the AzAmazing evening is not?

Does this mean that the evening entertainment excursions the previous night require a day tour?

 

"...However, if you choose to skip our AzAmazing Evening and wish to explore Havana at night we have evening excursions available for purchase.... "  There are no evening excursions other then the AzAmazing listed.

 

Could all this be related to the earlier change in itinerary that moved the departure time past midnight so Azamara could advertise this as a 3 day Havana stop as opposed 2 days plus a sea day?

 

Remember the earlier email informing us that Azamara just realized that since thy are leaving and then reentering Cuban waters they require a second Visa and as a goodwill gesture they aren't going to charge us for their screw up?

 

Have you followed the other threads re "Double Upgrade" and outside of North America it is considered false advertising because in fact they raised lower cabin rates and adjusted verandah rates were the same if not higher.

 

Hard to maintain a luxury image with actions like this. 

 

 

[ellbon]

55 minutes ago, tgg said:

 

There is a Jewish tour listed in our shore excursion booklet. Here is the description:

 

Jewish Heritage Tour
Havana, Cuba - December 13, 2018
Code: N128
Prices: Adult 119.00 / Child 119.00 USD
Departure Times: Dec 13, 9:45 am; Dec 13, 1:45 pm;
Dec 14, 9:45 am
Duration: 5 hrs
Restrictions: N/A
Difficulty Level: Moderate
Embrace Cuba's rich Jewish heritage on a guided tour that takes you through the streets of Old Havana's
Jewish Quarter. You'll walk among the places and people that have helped shape Cuba's Jewish community for
generations. Hear stories from the locals and learn about the challenges the Jewish community faced in the
past, and still faces today. Your experience includes a tour of the spectacular Hotel Raquel, a breathtaking
example of Havana's Jewish influence, and a visit to a local synagogue for an authentic look at how faithful live
and worship on the island today. You'll also pay moving visits to a historic Jewish cemetery and Havana's
Holocaust Museum, a solemn reminder of the atrocities of World War II created by Cuba's small, but ever stalwart,
Jewish community. Regardless of personal faith, you'll head home with a new appreciation for Cuba's
Jewish community after this immersive and inspiring excursion.
 

This is about what I did last year. When I looked at the Cmas cruisefir Dec 18 it was not there. Also the cermentary was really not safe for people who had trouble walking. The Temple was lovely. There are three temples there and the tour only did one. We were in some museum and I found a dance studio and watch dancers.  The museum part dragged on.  Also did an art class while one woman lecture to our group. I got more out of the art class.

[tgg]

17 hours ago, agathasmum said:

I am on a different cruise to you, but also heard from Azamara today, albeit with a different version of the letter. We have booked full day private tours with a guide who others on these boards have recommended, so are not concerned.

 

Here is how it's worded in our letter.

"Chances are, you’ve already booked an excursion independently or through Azamara for our call in Havana. If so, you’re good to go, as all tours booked through us fully satisfy OFAC requirements. However, if you haven’t booked your daytime excursions for Havana yet, please do so as soon as possible. You’re also welcome to purchase tours on your own as long as it’s a “people-to-people” tour that complies with the new regulations."

 

I am not anticipating any problems.

 

Susan

 

The email you were sent certainly has a different tone than the one people on our cruise received.  Ours never mentioned that we were "welcome to purchase tours on our own . . ."  

 

Thanks for posting.

[Arizonasunshine]

Very interesting. My February cruise doesn't arrive in Santiago De Cuba until 5:00 PM.  I was told by Azamara that that is the night for the Amazing Evening Event. 

[agathasmum]

5 hours ago, Arizonasunshine said:

Very interesting. My February cruise doesn't arrive in Santiago De Cuba until 5:00 PM.  I was told by Azamara that that is the night for the Amazing Evening Event. 

 That's when ours (Nov 24th) was meant to be, but it got moved to Havana as I think there is some issue with the dock in Santiago de Cuba, but don't quote me on that!

[ellbon]

Toni abd others 

 

I have checked my cruise  for Dec. there is no Jewish tour if any kind being offered. Both days the sane old tours. No Jewish, no,art or music. Other cruise lines offer  art and music. AZ needs to,step,up their game  for tours here.

[jelayne]

12 minutes ago, ellbon said:Toni abd others 

I have checked my cruise  for Dec. there is no Jewish tour if any kind being offered. Both days the sane old tours. No Jewish, no,art or music. Other cruise lines offer  art and music. AZ needs to,step,up their game  for tours here.

Don’t you have the 2 Tours to the National museum and Lintz Dance Co?

we havev those plus  the Jewish Hertiage Tour on the 12/11cruise.

[ellbon]

20 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Don’t you have the 2 Tours to the National museum and Lintz Dance Co?

we havev those plus  the Jewish Hertiage Tour on the 12/11cruise.

No! I looked today. I am on the Cmas cruise to celebrate eight years with the line. I can do both of these in my own. I have been on tour on my own and saw the ballet theatre. But no museum in Havana, I can easily do thst on my own. This is my 4th time to Havana. Last trip did a classic car on my own. Done theatre on my own.  I did the Jewish tour before abd felt it needed tweeting. Looks like it was.something new is the museum so will look it up abd go. Thank you.

[excitedofharpenden]

This seems like a real muddle to me.  I have a friend on Journey and there is no enforcement or checking going on with regard to tours.  She has been able to get off independently without an issue.  Of course this is no guarantee of what it might be, but at the moment you seem to be able to do what you like.

 

Phil

[tgg]

4 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

This seems like a real muddle to me.  I have a friend on Journey and there is no enforcement or checking going on with regard to tours.  She has been able to get off independently without an issue.  Of course this is no guarantee of what it might be, but at the moment you seem to be able to do what you like.

 

Phil

 

Sounds good to me! Thanks for the feedback.

 

Toni

[ellbon]

7 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

This seems like a real muddle to me.  I have a friend on Journey and there is no enforcement or checking going on with regard to tours.  She has been able to get off independently without an issue.  Of course this is no guarantee of what it might be, but at the moment you seem to be able to do what you like.

 

Phil

I have been to Havana twice now on   AZ. Never was I stopped  leaving the ship  by any one but the Cuban custom people who always look at your passport. This is leaving and going back on  the ship. also twice I sailed into Mia. One time i was asked if I had rum or cigars. the other was just keep on walking.  So far no one csres. 

[jelayne]

It seems that coming and going from the ship without a ships tour is common & not a problem.  

 

What isn’t clear yet is if  on the day if AZamazing Evening you will be able to attend if you didn’t take a ships tour.  If a private tour that day will suffice what, if any, documentation do you need to support that the private tour met the “guidelines of a “full time schedule of educational exchange activities by a United States sponsoring organization. 

 

Hooefully, the letter is just a CYA for Azamara and everyone who wants to go will be allowed to go.

[excitedofharpenden]

5 hours ago, jelayne said:

It seems that coming and going from the ship without a ships tour is common & not a problem.  

 

What isn’t clear yet is if  on the day if AZamazing Evening you will be able to attend if you didn’t take a ships tour.  If a private tour that day will suffice what, if any, documentation do you need to support that the private tour met the “guidelines of a “full time schedule of educational exchange activities by a United States sponsoring organization. 

 

Hooefully, the letter is just a CYA for Azamara and everyone who wants to go will be allowed to go.

Feedback from my friend on Journey at the moment, this requirement was not enforced. 

 

Phil 

Edited November 19, 2018 by excitedofharpenden

[caripoo]

I still think cruise companies try and scare and shame people into ONLY booking their excursions....especially in places like Cuba and Russia.....

[hubofhockey]

2 hours ago, caripoo said:

I still think cruise companies try and scare and shame people into ONLY booking their excursions....especially in places like Cuba and Russia.....

I think cruise lines lost the battle long ago on St Petersburg.  

[gaspari]

I believe Azamara are providing erroneous information for their own financial benefit regarding tours. There is no obligation to purchase any tour from them to meet the ‘support for the Cuban people’ box which should be ticked on the Azamara visa form when you board. There is a huge amount of information about this on other boards for all ships which visit Cuba

 

Everyone who wished to was able to attend the Amazing Evening in Havana last week, regardless of whether they had booked any ships tours on that or any other day. 

 

NB we had a super 1950 classic car tour of the extended areas of Havana with a good safe licensed driver and licensed English speaking tour guide for 50 CUC. The equivalent Azamara tour cost 299 CUC.

Edited November 23, 2018 by gaspari
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