Allure - Our room was raided and tossed!

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, 123funcruiser said:

 

[sarcasm]So the officials of the "land of the free" invaded another countries territory? Would be interesting to know if they where authorized or even asked to do this on behalf of that Country.[/sarcasm]

So, you don't believe that a ship flying the flag of the Bahamas is not Bahamian territory?  No, they did not "invade" the Bahamas, they requested permission to search the ship from the Captain, the representative of the Bahamas onboard the ship.  The Captain can of course refuse permission, but then the passengers would not be allowed to disembark without a full customs search.  And when a ship enters a country's territorial waters, they agree, under international law, to submit to customs searches.

[BillOh]

14 minutes ago, Trickie Dickie said:

Oh yeah! 😄 with the signatures being hidden I forgot that I put that there. I did two videos of two different rooms, but yes, I was in the JS. My friends were down the hall in the Central Park balcony room. 

 

One take away from  your post, if someone knocks on my door and the peep hole is covered, I'm not opening it till I get dressed and I all security on the phone. (partially a stalling tactic till I get dressed.) Not a criticism of how you responded in anyway.

 

[Cel_cruise]

 
Yes, the one with the big deck.  We had 12629 December 2017 for two weeks. I think I participated in that thread 
 
BTW, folks can also look through your posting history and glean information. 
 
Not following your comment on signatures hidden. 
 

John -

I view on Tapatalk or on cruise critic but have my view set up to hide signatures (I view on my phone - they take up a lot of space)... I’m guessing that this is what the OP must also do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

It was US law enforcement carrying out this excess and you are going to claim he was in the Bahamas?

 

Of course it was, just look at international law with regards to overlapping jurisdiction on a foreign ship in US waters.  The ship is sovereign territory of the flag state, but when a ship enters US waters, the simple fact of entering territorial waters gives implied consent to allow customs searches.  But, those searches are done on foreign "soil" (the ship).

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, travelplus said:

If it were me I would not have let them n the room until. I was fully dressed. Then I would have called down to the Front Desk and asked to be patched into security and have the lead senior officer come up to the room. 

 

Before anyone entered I would ask for their ID, if they have probable cause or a, warrant to enter. The reason why they suspect any problem. 

 

If they must enter I would control my possessions and the search by witnessing it. Take any cellphone images or video. 

 

If I felt it was unjust I would be on the phone with Miami or email the Executive Office. 

 

Im sorry you experienced this and yes please do report it to the executive office etc. 

But, despite my statements that the ship is foreign territory, this is CBP doing their mandated job, and under US regulations, they do not have to have any probable cause or a warrant, any more than they do to search your baggage when you fly in from a foreign country.  And, RCI has no control over the attitude or conduct of US CBP officers, who have had a history of authoritarian behavior for the 40 years I've been going to sea and in contact with them.

[Trickie Dickie]

14 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Yes, the one with the big deck.  We had 12629 December 2017 for two weeks. I think I participated in that thread 

 

BTW, folks can also look through your posting history and glean information. 

 

Not following your comment on signatures hidden. 

 

That cruising profile banner never updates. I cannot seem to get it to go to 28. I’ve deleted it and re-added and it says 26 still. Frustrating 🤪

[Trickie Dickie]

8 minutes ago, Cel_cruise said:

 

John -

I view on Tapatalk or on cruise critic but have my view set up to hide signatures (I view on my phone - they take up a lot of space)... I’m guessing that this is what the OP must also do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Correct 😄

[Trickie Dickie]

10 minutes ago, BillOh said:

 

One take away from  your post, if someone knocks on my door and the peep hole is covered, I'm not opening it till I get dressed and I all security on the phone. (partially a stalling tactic till I get dressed.) Not a criticism of how you responded in anyway.

 

My spouse opened the door. He thought it was our friends from down the hall horsing around. 

[BillOh]

2 minutes ago, Trickie Dickie said:

My spouse opened the door. He thought it was our friends from down the hall horsing around. 

 

I see, but now I will remember this. 

[robtulipe]

8 minutes ago, BillOh said:

 

I see, but now I will remember this. 

That's for sure with us also. Thanks Dickie for this informative thread.

Edited March 31, 2019 by robtulipe

[123funcruiser]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, you don't believe that a ship flying the flag of the Bahamas is not Bahamian territory?  No, they did not "invade" the Bahamas, they requested permission to search the ship from the Captain, the representative of the Bahamas onboard the ship.  The Captain can of course refuse permission, but then the passengers would not be allowed to disembark without a full customs search.  And when a ship enters a country's territorial waters, they agree, under international law, to submit to customs searches.

 

Yes I don´t believe that a ship flying the flag of the Bahamas is not Bahamian territory 😉

 

I know your post About the ship being Bahamian territory is Right and I didn´t want to disagree with you About this.

All I wanted to Point out was that it really didn´t matter much what countries territory the OP was on, it was still US officials acting. I would hope, though I´m not really sure here, said US officials would still be Bound to US laws, even though on Bahamian teritory. I could be wrong here though.  

[El Abuelo]

Not opening the door, or delaying doing so, may not end well.  When this happens there are no good options.

[chengkp75]

40 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

No it is not a fact. It is a fake fact. While the ship is in a US port it is in the US. Only in the Bahamas Embassy could one claim to be under Bahamas jurisdiction. The ships registry does not pace it in the Bahamas when docked in Florida. I don’t argue that the US law enforcement didn’t have the right to investigate onboard the ship while docked. Also I suspect that the terms of carriage when you agree to cruise contract, you are allowing your cabin and personal items to be searched. The ship is private property. We don’t have the right of free speech onboard either. I don’t however think law enforcement went about it right in this instance as described by OP.

 

Your misunderstanding of international law is showing.  The basis of how various jurisdictions' laws apply to foreign flag ships in a port is covered by international law.  The overriding precept is that unless an action on the ship affects the safety, security, or "well being" of the port, then the flag state laws apply.  Why do you think companies flag their ships in other countries?  What makes the Bahamian embassy sovereign soil of the Bahamas?  A ship is sovereign soil of the flag state, just as much as the embassy is.

[Charles4515]

But, despite my statements that the ship is foreign territory, this is CBP doing their mandated job, and under US regulations, they do not have to have any probable cause or a warrant, any more than they do to search your baggage when you fly in from a foreign country.  And, RCI has no control over the attitude or conduct of US CBP officers, who have had a history of authoritarian behavior for the 40 years I've been going to sea and in contact with them.

We can agree that CBP was doing their mandated job and that CBP has a history of authoritarian behavior. If it happened to me, they didn’t treat me with respect, I would not confront them, call them a Nazi or whatever else some have proposed. I would write a complaint to CBP with the details when I got home and copy it to my congressman, Steny Hoyer.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, 123funcruiser said:

 

Yes I don´t believe that a ship flying the flag of the Bahamas is not Bahamian territory 😉

 

I know your post About the ship being Bahamian territory is Right and I didn´t want to disagree with you About this.

All I wanted to Point out was that it really didn´t matter much what countries territory the OP was on, it was still US officials acting. I would hope, though I´m not really sure here, said US officials would still be Bound to US laws, even though on Bahamian teritory. I could be wrong here though.  

Yes, the US CBP officers are bound by US regulations, but as noted, when doing a border search, CBP does not need probable cause nor a warrant, nor is there any regulation that they need to be pleasant.  Trying to apply local, state, or even some federal restrictions on searches to CBP is fruitless, unless you know CBP procedures.  They have always operated under their own rules and regulations.

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, BillOh said:

I realize that, but it wouldn't stop me and I'm not one to pull the offended card, and in general support law enforcement and border security.  This sounds excessive, and I've never heard of a search at the border without the guests being present.

 

Happened to us.  We were inside the customs office and when we went back out to our vehicle we had to put all of our luggage back as they had searched our vehicle.  

[time4u2go]

33 minutes ago, BillOh said:

 

One take away from  your post, if someone knocks on my door and the peep hole is covered, I'm not opening it till I get dressed and I all security on the phone. (partially a stalling tactic till I get dressed.) Not a criticism of how you responded in anyway.

 

And you think they're just going to wait for you to do this?

[BillOh]

8 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

And you think they're just going to wait for you to do this?

You must be all knowing you tell me.    I'm not opening my door for anyone who doesn't identify them selves properly. 

[John&LaLa]

41 minutes ago, Trickie Dickie said:

That cruising profile banner never updates. I cannot seem to get it to go to 28. I’ve deleted it and re-added and it says 26 still. Frustrating 🤪

 

I gave up on mine and got rid of it. The webmaster is not very responsive

[time4u2go]

14 minutes ago, BillOh said:

You must be all knowing you tell me.    I'm not opening my door for anyone who doesn't identify them selves properly. 

You don't have to open your door.  They will open it for you.

[John&LaLa]

32 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

We can agree that CBP was doing their mandated job and that CBP has a history of authoritarian behavior. If it happened to me, they didn’t treat me with respect, I would not confront them, call them a Nazi or whatever else some have proposed. I would write a complaint to CBP with the details when I got home and copy it to my congressman, Steny Hoyer.

 

 

Good case on why we need term limits. He was my representative in 1992. He was long in the tooth then. 🤣

[El Abuelo]

18 minutes ago, BillOh said:

You must be all knowing you tell me.    I'm not opening my door for anyone who doesn't identify them selves properly. 

That might lead to a new thread here on CC

 

“RCI threw us off the cruise and charged us $2k for a broken door after CBP broke it down. They said we didn’t open it fast enough...”

[BillOh]

4 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

You don't have to open your door.  They will open it for you.

You continue to post all knowing, but probably with no real experience I'm sure. Keep it up..  In the OP's circumstance I would let them know I will open the door as soon as possible, but I consider covering the peep hole is something a criminal would do, not a legit law enforcement. I don't open any door to anyone covering a peep hole. I would tell them to wait while I called  Guest Services.

[HBE4]

6 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

You don't have to open your door.  They will open it for you.

 

And get a new door in the process.

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

And get a new door in the process.

Nope.   Note that a ship's security officer was present.  He will have a "hard key" (a real metal key) that overrides all the locking mechanisms in the door, including the deadbolt.