Allure - Our room was raided and tossed!

[Charles4515]

 
"He smacked my hand away" is a far cry from "he hit you?".

That was hitting. Totally inappropriate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aquahound]

6 minutes ago, sft429 said:

"He smacked my hand away" is a far cry from "he hit you?".

 

She used both terms in her post.  Either way, TSA is not authorized to use force so even a smacking of the hand, regardless of how petit, is still inappropriate, not to mention illegal.  

 

FWIW, I'm a staunch supporter of LE.  I'm just speaking facts on this thread.  

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

Thanks! I just figured it was common knowledge.  Or common sense.

Common sense and cruise critic are rarely synonymous.

[Lionesss]

3 hours ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

 

A very brief summary:

 

A man "who needed it" approached a golf cart at the entrance area on Labadee.  The driver was not in the cart, the man's wife got in the backseat, the driver approached and told the man that it was for suite guests only.  The man jumped into the driver's seat and took off with the golf cart, with his wife screaming at him from the back seat and the driver running behind and screaming at him.

 

My late SO had some mobility issues and used a cane at some ports.  He hired a wheelchair for a ride from the ship to the entrance to Labadee, we took the tram up to the area past the gauntlet of vendors and walked the rest of the way, had a lovely day on the beach, took the tram back, and heard a loud sound upon entering the ship and scanning SO's card.  Security was called and we were told that we needed to go to Guest Services immediately for "an important message".  We were then taken into a tiny room (5' x 7') with only a desk and three chairs and were  interrogated about what we could tell them about the "incident".  What incident?  Apparently security footage was viewed, my SO met the description by the driver or perhaps looked like he "needed" a golf cart because of the cane and his obvious mobility issues, so he was flagged.  We had some terrifying moments when we thought the "important message" was about his family who were camping and ATVing that weekend with their small children.  No explanation was given for the interrogation, and we were eventually told that after they saw my SO's photo on a list of guests meeting the general description, they quit looking. 

 

I understand the OP's feelings regarding his incident.  I feel anxiety to this day when reminded of our incident.

 

BYW, the golf cart was later found abandoned at "the top of the hill".  And, really, just what could you do with a stolen golf cart on an island?

 

Thanks

 

The initial post gave me a good laugh but the explanation says it all.

 

Thanks for taking the time, it was worth reading.

 

Safe travels

[HBE4]

On 3/30/2019 at 12:56 PM, parrotfeathers said:

I would have been very upset too!

 

Hopefully the dog didn't pee on you.

 

The dog was probably housebroken and training not to pee while "on the job". And the handler would have taken appropriate action should it happen.

 

The Dog peeing on Anthem thread was far more entertaining. Too many serious and uptight posts here. Although I did learn some good info. So I guess it wasn't wasted time.

[Tree_skier]

4 hours ago, BillOh said:

I realize that, but it wouldn't stop me and I'm not one to pull the offended card, and in general support law enforcement and border security.  This sounds excessive, and I've never heard of a search at the border without the guests being present.

 

I'm a Canadian who lives in the US full-time now.  Prior to immigrating we crossed the US Canada border constantly.  We were regularly stopped for extra inspection (known as "compex inspections", I believe).  They would always tell us they were random but my suspicions have always been otherwise. I noticed that there were certain circumstances that seemed more likely to trigger a compex inspection. Also, they always searched our car/truck without us present.  One time I watched them remove the taillights from my PU truck and shine a light down into the open cavity.  Another time I noticed that every vehicle that had been pulled in for increased scrutiny was a black pickup truck, which mine was.  It's not an option for you to be present during the search, let me assure you.  Best case scenario is you are watching them go through your vehicle and belongings from a great distance away.  You have no rights while entering the country and squaking is only going to make things worse.  The best thing to do is sit quietly and wait.  Answer their questions honestly, politely and simply.  Big stories and complicated answers to  simple questions draw increased scrutiny.  I am a strong supporter of law enforcement and border security so I viewed it all as a minor inconvenience.  I have not had anything to hide so I have never been concerned that they would refuse me entry or cause me problems.  

 

Clearly the OP was about to embark on a charter cruise with a long known history of illicit drug abuse.  While their selection may very well have been random the enhanced security prior to that particular cruise was not random.  Also based upon the arrests that were made, clearly the CBP agents were right to be doing very detailed searches.  Perhaps they prevented the deaths of some of the OP's fellow cruisers.  Really he should be thankful for their diligent work.

[sft429]

34 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

She used both terms in her post.  Either way, TSA is not authorized to use force so even a smacking of the hand, regardless of how petit, is still inappropriate, not to mention illegal.  

 

FWIW, I'm a staunch supporter of LE.  I'm just speaking facts on this thread.  

 

I don't believe passengers are allowed to interfere with their bags being searched either, or even touch their own belongings during a search.  

[HBE4]

3 minutes ago, sft429 said:

 

I don't believe passengers are allowed to interfere with their bags being searched either, or even touch their own belongings during a search.  

 

Also not a good idea to make sudden movements while be searched. Reaching out on mid-air could be considered threatening.  Lot worse could have happen than a smack on the wrist.

 

Um, at least that's what a friend told me. 😉

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

All of this is very easy to type when you are sitting behind your keyboard, total different situation when you have someone banging on your door.  The door would have been opened way before you could do half of what you are saying.  If you start yelling, you are going to find yourself on the ground.  Common sense, follow directions as the OP did.

But don’t you see—-this is the way to do things now. Then you can claim brutality and profiling. Too many young people are being taught to act this way. Then people in Denmark read the news and think law enforcement is evil.

[nelblu]

3 minutes ago, sft429 said:

 

I don't believe passengers are allowed to interfere with their bags being searched either, or even touch their own belongings during a search.  

 

Security in Los Angeles almost took my head off when I was trying to place some of the items that fell out of my carry on  bag while the bag was being inspected.  We were selected for special screening as our original United flight from LA to Newark, NJ was cancelled due to a snow storm.  Was able to take a later American flight to JFK.  I tell you when we landed it was one of the smoothest landing we ever had.  Trying to get to NJ was a nightmare as no taxi's or limos were running.  Was able to take a shuttle bus to Penn Station (NYC) and then on to Penn Station (Newark) to take train home in Monmouth County.

 

This was on Feb. 9, 2003 on the Vision and it was our only sail out of LA  port to the Mexican Riviera.

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, BillOh said:

You continue to post all knowing, but probably with no real experience I'm sure. Keep it up..  In the OP's circumstance I would let them know I will open the door as soon as possible, but I consider covering the peep hole is something a criminal would do, not a legit law enforcement. I don't open any door to anyone covering a peep hole. I would tell them to wait while I called  Guest Services.

It’s almost sad to think you believe this to be a viable option. 

[Seville2Cabo]

It is possible they came in force just in case the cabin occupants decided not to cooperate.  They can't predict how people  will react  - guilty or not.

[Pratique]

23 hours ago, thistimeplease said:

Never had a problem with the police or custom officials.  If you're not doing something illegal no need to worry. 

 

22 hours ago, cruisinfanatic said:

Quite ridiculous if you have nothing to hide. Same as any country

This saying always sticks in my craw. Everyone should know their rights at the border regardless of the situation. Even if you have "nothing to hide," you don't know what they're looking for or how they will use what they find. Our rights are like muscles - use it or lose it.

[springfire]

5 minutes ago, Pratique said:

 

This saying always sticks in my craw. Everyone should know their rights at the border regardless of the situation. Even if you have "nothing to hide," you don't know what they're looking for or how they will use what they find. Our rights are like muscles - use it or lose it.

Agreed!

[Aquahound]

12 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Everyone should know their rights at the border regardless of the situation. Even if you have "nothing to hide," you don't know what they're looking for or how they will use what they find. Our rights are like muscles - use it or lose it.

 

6 minutes ago, springfire said:

Agreed!

 

Question for the 2 of you.  Pertaining to the topic of this thread, exactly what were the OP's rights?

[springfire]

27 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

 

Question for the 2 of you.  Pertaining to the topic of this thread, exactly what were the OP's rights?

Not sure what OP would do but as a US citizen I know I only need to prove my identity to US Customs and answer basic custom questions.  I would likely speak with the agents but after proving my identity I know I don't have to speak with them.  I can't stop them from searching but I don't have to help them or give them any information, such as passwords and such.  If I have an issue with the agent, I can request the supervisor when they search my things.

 

Now I have never had to do any of these things but if what happened to the OP happened to me, I would want to know my rights and exercise them.  That is why I agreed with Pratique.

[Pratique]

6 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

 

Question for the 2 of you.  Pertaining to the topic of this thread, exactly what were the OP's rights?

Unfortunately this is a difficult question to answer and depends on the circumstances including whether you are a U.S. citizen, green card holder or foreign national. Also the law is unsettled in some aspects and various administrations have tried to test the limits in different ways through the courts (some of these ways are still under challenge). There are resources other than here on CC that you can and should look to for more information.

 

** Not legal advice --> But in general CBP must have a reasonable suspicion to detain you, and if you are detained, they have to tell you why. If I understand, the OP said the search was 45 minutes long. There is no hard number but the longer it goes on, the more it starts to seem like a detention. You can ask "am I being detained?" They must have probable cause to arrest you; this is a higher standard than reasonable suspicion. There is the right to remain silent, although refusing to answer questions at the border can delay the process significantly, and there are practical considerations to refusing to answer (such as, how much trouble do you want to get in, especially if you are a foreign national - they can't deny entry to citizens but they can to non-citizens). To that end, it is also important to know which types of questions you have to answer and which types you don't have to answer (since they can ask just about anything) and also to how much information you need to give them (such as the passcode to access your smart phone or laptop). They can't violate your religious rights and you don't have to answer discriminatory questions about religion, gender, national origin, etc. Technically they can only ask immigration questions (whatever that means is a subject of legal debate). Beyond that they are supposed to have reasonable suspicion at least. Also it's important to know that consenting to a search affects your rights differently than having them search without your consent (I don't believe a search warrant is necessary at the border but consent is a voluntary waiver of your rights that makes it harder to challenge the search/seizure later).

 

I personally believe that it's helpful to let law enforcement know that you are aware of your rights (other than by exclaiming "I know my rights!"). It can be done in a non-hostile manner (don't become belligerent); asking them questions such as "am I being detained" and "am I free to go" is part of exercising your rights and I think is reasonable to do. Others may have different comfort levels with this.

 

Sorry there's not a clear answer but hopefully these are things to help you think about it.

[Aquahound]

2 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Unfortunately this is a difficult question to answer and depends on the circumstances including whether you are a U.S. citizen, green card holder or foreign national. Also the law is unsettled in some aspects and various administrations have tried to test the limits in different ways through the courts (some of these ways are still under challenge). There are resources other than here on CC that you can and should look to for more information.

 

I asked because I was genuinely curious what you and springfire thought your rights were.  I'm working on my Masters in Criminal Justice and I have 26 years experience in local and federal LE, so its a topic I know well.  

 

You make good points but some what you posted is not quite accurate.  This was a Customs Border Search.  On a border search, it does not matter if you are an American citizen or not, and reasonable suspicion does not need to be established for you to be detained.  Ever hear of a "secondary" search at a border?   Sometimes they are due to suspicion and sometimes they are random. Either way, reasonable suspicion is not necessary, and you are not free to leave.   Heck, even with my background, I was secondaried last time I came back into the US from Canada and there was nothing I could do about it.  

 

"Rights" are afforded by the Constitution.  Pertaining to search and seizure, those rights come from the 4th Amendment.  However, for the most part, the 4th Amendment does not apply to border searches.  The authority granted to CBP and USBP is very broad; much more so than that granted to conventional LE.  

[Big_G]

9 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

I asked because I was genuinely curious what you and springfire thought your rights were.  I'm working on my Masters in Criminal Justice and I have 26 years experience in local and federal LE, so its a topic I know well.  

 

You make good points but some what you posted is not quite accurate.  This was a Customs Border Search.  On a border search, it does not matter if you are an American citizen or not, and reasonable suspicion does not need to be established for you to be detained.  Ever hear of a "secondary" search at a border?   Sometimes they are due to suspicion and sometimes they are random. Either way, reasonable suspicion is not necessary, and you are not free to leave.   Heck, even with my background, I was secondaried last time I came back into the US from Canada and there was nothing I could do about it.  

 

"Rights" are afforded by the Constitution.  Pertaining to search and seizure, those rights come from the 4th Amendment.  However, for the most part, the 4th Amendment does not apply to border searches.  The authority granted to CBP and USBP is very broad; much more so than that granted to conventional LE.  

 

And there in lies the problem with many of the posts on this thread. CBP is not your average law enforcement agency. They’re not subject to the same Constitutional restrictions that your average beat cop is. Good luck with Masters.

[Pratique]

12 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

"Rights" are afforded by the Constitution.  Pertaining to search and seizure, those rights come from the 4th Amendment.  However, for the most part, the 4th Amendment does not apply to border searches.  The authority granted to CBP and USBP is very broad; much more so than that granted to conventional LE.  

Yes this is true but it's nuanced as you've alluded to. I don't think that detention is the same as holding you in the normal course of border inspection, such as making sure your passport is in order and that you have a legal right to enter the country. Detention is when they have reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime or that you don't have a right to enter the country. It's more than just ordinary border inspection. At least that's my take on it.

[OCEANCATS]

16 hours ago, Trickie Dickie said:

Thanks for your understanding. You seem to get the point of the post. I’m getting exhausted defending everything. People tend to knit pick things. I hesitated to post this and I’m starting to regret it. Sigh. 

 

I appreciate you being strong enough to let fellow cruisers know about your experiences.  I have learned a lot on CC over the years and appreciate knowing what may happen on a  cruise vacation.  It's sometimes difficult wading through the "mud" on some threads.   I truly feel for you and your partner and hope for happy sailings in the future.

 

[Trickie Dickie]

41 minutes ago, OCEANCATS said:

 

I appreciate you being strong enough to let fellow cruisers know about your experiences.  I have learned a lot on CC over the years and appreciate knowing what may happen on a  cruise vacation.  It's sometimes difficult wading through the "mud" on some threads.   I truly feel for you and your partner and hope for happy sailings in the future.

 

 

Well it’s been a ride.  A few of you subscribed to my YouTube channel so it wasn’t a total disaster. 😄. Thanks everyone. 

[2Long2NxtCrz]

I have heard of rooms being searched and people being detained, and I shouldn't be surprised that CBP was less than respectful during their search, but at least I now know consciously just what can happen and will be more aware in the future.  So thank you so much for sharing your experience.  I do hope that you were able to enjoy your second week and put this all behind you.

[springfire]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I asked because I was genuinely curious what you and springfire thought your rights were.  I'm working on my Masters in Criminal Justice and I have 26 years experience in local and federal LE, so its a topic I know well.  

 

You make good points but some what you posted is not quite accurate.  This was a Customs Border Search.  On a border search, it does not matter if you are an American citizen or not, and reasonable suspicion does not need to be established for you to be detained.  Ever hear of a "secondary" search at a border?   Sometimes they are due to suspicion and sometimes they are random. Either way, reasonable suspicion is not necessary, and you are not free to leave.   Heck, even with my background, I was secondaried last time I came back into the US from Canada and there was nothing I could do about it.  

 

"Rights" are afforded by the Constitution.  Pertaining to search and seizure, those rights come from the 4th Amendment.  However, for the most part, the 4th Amendment does not apply to border searches.  The authority granted to CBP and USBP is very broad; much more so than that granted to conventional LE.  

 

You do have some additional rights if you are a US citizen.  As long as you show proper documentation to customs, they can still search you and your belongings but they can not deny a US citizen entry  into the USA.   You do not need to speak with customs concerning any other matters other than the basic custom questions.  You do not need to give them any additional information about you or your belongings.   Not sure I would recommend doing this but this is your right as a US citizen.    If you are not a US citizen, such as the OP and refuse to talk with customs on whatever they ask you, they can still search you and your belongings and still deny you entry into the USA. 

I agree, Customs can search anybody and anything they want at a port of entry, they do not need any suspicion or reason.  They do need suspicion if they want to keep any of your belongings.     

 

To the OP, I am sorry you had this issue but you did a great job of keeping calm.  Thanks for sharing your story.

 

 

[tinkr2]

14 hours ago, nelblu said:

If you are talking about ICE checking for illegals--Yes, it happens quite often and not surprised as they are doing their jobs.  Were you planning on entering the US as an illegal.  If not, what the heck are you worried about.  Have you seen the illegal(s) invasion that is taking place in both Europe and the US.  You have as many problems if not more as we do.   We weren't afraid of cruising Europe a few years ago, even after the terrorist attacks in France and Spain.  Shocking to see armed soldiers in the Barcelona air terminal and as a foreigner had to show my passport some 3-4 times before boarding.

These are agents patrolling and stopping ordinary people going to work. If that needs to be our emphasis, then we are screwed . I do not think it is ok to stop and question people based on a profile, whether you're a brown driving to work on 528 or a gay man on a party cruise, thats a line  Id choose not to step over.