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Let me do some very rough maths for the ship that I am booked on.

A Haven guest is paying about $6,000 per person, and there are 300 of us. $1.8M

Just say a 'regular' cabin fare is $500 (and I know they wary wildly), $1.8M divided by $500 is the equivalent of 3,600 other cruisers.

So, just those 300 Haven guests are paying the same as 3,600 other passengers. 10x. But everyone eats the same food, and pays the same for drinks, and pays the same gratuities. The profit margin for everyone on the extras is about the same, it is only the cabin prices that are different. In the Haven the food isn't 10x more Gucci, we don't drink 10x more, or sit on 10 deck chairs each. There are no caviar or champagne dispensers. Just the same Three Cheese Ziti, and a bowl of M&M's in the Lounge. It all comes to the ship on the same big white trucks that deliver for the Cafe/MDR. No such thing as Gucci M&M's. Just regular.

A ship operates as an individual business unit. It is required to make a profit in its own right. The ship needs as many passengers on board as possible to sell the drinks and spa visits to make money. 300 people in the Haven aren't going to make them much money at all, but if you charge them an arm and a leg for their 'exclusive' little area up top, you can use all that extra money to drop the price of the regular cabins and get more people on board who will happily pay $15 for a photo, and $15 for ten minutes on a go cart. Or perhaps that Haven money pays the crew salaries, or the fuel bill, but whatever it pays for, it is going back into the ships economy, and paying a lot of bills somehow.

 

The DOS is worst off. They have maybe 5x the cabin space, but each guest is paying an eye watering 25x. They don't get 25 deck chairs each. They only get 1. So they are paying for 24 others that they don't get to use.

 

And just to troll, based on those dollar figures, the Haven is paying for 50% of the deck space, and we are getting ripped off because we are only getting 30%.

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39 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Let me do some very rough maths for the ship that I am booked on.

A Haven guest is paying about $6,000 per person, and there are 300 of us. $1.8M

Just say a 'regular' cabin fare is $500 (and I know they wary wildly), $1.8M divided by $500 is the equivalent of 3,600 other cruisers.

 

 

 

Please link any NCL cruise where all the Haven rooms are $6000 and above, and the average of all the other rooms is $500.  

I would say the averages are more like $5000 and $1500.  

 

5000 x 300 = 1.5mm

1500 x 3600 = 5.4mm

 

Edit: In addition...300 Haven pax would equate to 150 Haven rooms based on double occupancy.  I think that might be an over estimate as well 

Edited by MrMike45

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5 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

 

 

Please link any NCL cruise where all the Haven rooms are $6000 and above, and the average of all the other rooms is $500.  

I would say the averages are more like $5000 and $1500.  

 

5000 x 300 = 1.5mm

1500 x 3600 = 5.4mm

 

Edit: In addition...300 Haven pax would equate to 150 Haven rooms based on double occupancy.  I think that might be an over estimate as well 

Here we go again Mike...

Our Haven cabin is over $12.5K FOR TWO OF US. $6,000x2 people.

And, to quote myself:  "Just say a 'regular' cabin fare is $500 (and I know they vary wildly)" Fare=PER PERSON.

6,000/500 is about 10x. I KNOW it is 12x, but I try to keep things simple, as 50% of the population are of below average intelligence. Refute that. Go ahead. I know you want to.

 

I don't care how much an inside phone booth costs. I wouldn't even know how to look up the price, and the entire concept of being stuck down there under the water by the engines damages my calm. I figure that by staying up top in the Haven if the ship does go down I will be one of the first ones taken off by the helicopters, because they will see me first. Not because I am 'special'. And as I learned in the Navy, it is way more fun to jump down into the water than be trapped screaming as your compartment fills with smoke and water. Sweet dreams.

 

BTW, there will be four of us, so we will be paying extra for all sorts of other things that two people in an inside phone booth won't be buying. So we are Cost+

 

Word of The Day:

Pedantic. adjective
overly concerned with minute details 

 

Ring a bell? Have fun.

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Actual data from my next cruise:

(2) DOS - $9199/pp (Based on the same itinerary in Oct) = $36,796

(2) OS - $7549/pp = $30,196

(20) 2-BR - $7299/pp = $291,960

(18) CY PH - $5699/pp - $205,164

(12) Aft Fcng - $6099/pp = $146,376

(12) Fwd Fcng - $4999/pp = $119,976

(16) Spa - $4899/pp = $156,768

 

(164) passengers generating $987,236 in fares (does not include taxes, grats, etc.) = $6,019.73 per person

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Just jumping in here, no way the average fare outside of Haven is  $500 PP....that is for an inside, maybe...and we all know that insides make up the minority of available cabins on a cruise.  Most are ocean view or even more, balconies.  I have never taken a week long cruise on NCL that was less than $1399 for a balcony cabin that I chose, and had available "free at sea perks".  Now I'm sure that lower fares are out there, but not many under $1000 if you want to pick your cabin.  

 

So what's the big argument I missed?  I have no issue with Haven folks...not sure why anyone would.  

Edited by PTC DAWG

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8 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Here we go again Mike...

 

Actually...no...here we go again Elwood.  

 

This is direct from NCL's website for the 4/11/20-4/18/20 Escape 7 day cruise to Bermuda.  Prices pulled directly from the website.  Number of rooms pulled directly from a simple google search.  All rooms (except for the Studios) are based on double occupancy.  The same way there might be 4 people in a Haven room, there might be 5 people in a Family balcony room.  I am going based off the hard numbers of 2 to a room.  Non haven rooms equate to 6x as much as the Haven rooms.  Not even close to the Haven being equal to all other rooms combined (as you asserted).  MATH elmwood...MATH.  While you were in the Navy (and I thank you for your service, seriously), I was studying accounting and economics in College and Graduate school.  

 

PS this might by ugly as can be, I tried to upload an excel file, failed.  I apologize for that.  

 

ROOM CAT     # of ROOMS       COST PP              TOTAL COST 

HAVEN ROOMS

H2                     4                       $      8,599.00    $         68,792.00

H3                     4                       $      6,599.00    $         52,792.00

H4                    25                      $      5,599.00    $      279,950.00

H5                    22                      $      4,349.00    $      191,356.00

H6                    14                      $      4,699.00    $      131,572.00

H7                    12                      $      4,199.00    $      100,776.00

H8                    1                        $      4,499.00    $           8,998.00

H9                    13                      $      4,199.00     $      109,174.00

                                                                                 $      943,410.00

MID-SHIP BALCONY ROOMS

M1                    2                       $      2,849.00     $         11,396.00

M2                   20                      $      1,849.00     $         73,960.00

M3                   16                      $      1,829.00     $         58,528.00

M4                   4                        $      1,829.00     $         14,632.00

M6                   22                      $      2,029.00     $         89,276.00

M9                   20                      $      2,099.00     $         83,960.00

MA                  60                      $      1,829.00      $      219,480.00

MB                  80                      $      1,809.00      $      289,440.00

MC                  82                      $      1,799.00      $      295,036.00

MX                   2                       $      1,599.00      $           6,396.00

                                                                                $   1,142,104.00

BALCONY ROOMS

B1                   38                      $      1,899.00      $      144,324.00

B2                   68                      $      1,659.00      $      225,624.00

B3                   76                      $      1,649.00      $      250,648.00

B4                   28                      $      1,649.00      $         92,344.00

B6                   24                      $      1,749.00      $         83,952.00

B9                   28                      $      1,799.00      $      100,744.00

BA                 142                     $      1,649.00       $      468,316.00

BB                 168                     $      1,639.00       $      550,704.00

BC                 170                     $      1,629.00       $      553,860.00

BD                 118                      $      1,619.00      $      382,084.00

BE                 144                      $      1,609.00       $      463,392.00

BF                 160                      $      1,599.00       $      511,680.00

BX                    4                       $      1,399.00       $         11,192.00

                                                                                   $   3,838,864.00

OCEANVIEW ROOMS

O1                   38                      $      1,599.00      $      121,524.00

O2                    9                       $      1,449.00      $         26,082.00

OA                  25                      $      1,429.00       $         71,450.00

OB                  34                       $      1,399.00      $         95,132.00

OX                    2                       $      1,199.00      $           4,796.00

OK                    6                       $      1,199.00      $         14,388.00

                                                                                  $      333,372.00

INSIDE ROOMS

I1                    68                       $      1,169.00      $      158,984.00

IA                    70                       $      1,149.00      $      160,860.00

IB                    62                       $      1,139.00      $      141,236.00

IC                    30                       $      1,129.00      $         67,740.00

ID                    62                       $      1,109.00      $      137,516.00

IF                    30                        $      1,099.00     $         65,940.00

IX                     2                         $          999.00     $           3,996.00

                                                                                   $      736,272.00

STUDIO ROOMS

TI                   82                         $      1,599.00      $      131,118.00

                                                                                  $      131,118.00

 

 

HAVEN  TOTAL  = $    943,410.00

 

NON-HAVEN 

$ 1,142,104.00

 $ 3,838,864.00

 $    333,372.00

 $    736,272.00

 $    131,118.00

TOTAL =  $ 6,181,730.00  or 6.5x as much as Haven 

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44 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

I don't care how much an inside phone booth costs. I wouldn't even know how to look up the price

 

I think this sentence here sums up the entitlement sentiment.  Some people can only afford an "inside phone booth" as you call it.  Should those same people, who saved up to go on this cruise and that is the best they can do, have outside space by the pool taken away from them because they couldn't afford a better room?  In your estimation...yes.  They are in a phone booth, and it's below you to even to look up the price of it.  

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17 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

 

I think this sentence here sums up the entitlement sentiment.  Some people can only afford an "inside phone booth" as you call it.  Should those same people, who saved up to go on this cruise and that is the best they can do, have outside space by the pool taken away from them because they couldn't afford a better room?  In your estimation...yes.  They are in a phone booth, and it's below you to even to look up the price of it.  

No, I am just tired of you harassing me. Now I have started on payback. Annoying, isn't it?

Edited by elwood_98034
Typo

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1 minute ago, elwood_98034 said:

No, I am just tired of you harassing me.

 

Harassing you by disagreeing with you?  Harassing you by arguing the counter to your points?  Harassing you by pointing out your inaccuracies with math and loose estimations when it comes to how much the Haven accounts for on a cruise?  All while on a public forum about cruising...while being cordial and non-insulting, and not breaking any of the forums rules for posting?

 

Yup, I guess I am then...and I apologize.  

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On 6/25/2019 at 3:30 PM, tjt87 said:

What are they called in the US I know milky way is "Three musketeers

Mars Bars in the US are Snickers Almond. Milky Way is similar to Three Musketeers but not exactly the same. The European versions are sold in some stores here in the US, along with Maltesers (yum). My husband worked for Mars for 20 years so I know way to much about them 😂

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1 hour ago, MrMike45 said:

Actually...no...here we go again Elwood.  

 

This is direct from NCL's website for the 4/11/20-4/18/20 Escape 7 day cruise to Bermuda.  Prices pulled directly from the website.  Number of rooms pulled directly from a simple google search.  All rooms (except for the Studios) are based on double occupancy.  The same way there might be 4 people in a Haven room, there might be 5 people in a Family balcony room.  I am going based off the hard numbers of 2 to a room.  Non haven rooms equate to 6x as much as the Haven rooms.  Not even close to the Haven being equal to all other rooms combined (as you asserted).  MATH elmwood...MATH.  While you were in the Navy (and I thank you for your service, seriously), I was studying accounting and economics in College and Graduate school.  

 

PS this might by ugly as can be, I tried to upload an excel file, failed.  I apologize for that.  

 

ROOM CAT     # of ROOMS       COST PP              TOTAL COST 

HAVEN ROOMS

H2                     4                       $      8,599.00    $         68,792.00

H3                     4                       $      6,599.00    $         52,792.00

H4                    25                      $      5,599.00    $      279,950.00

H5                    22                      $      4,349.00    $      191,356.00

H6                    14                      $      4,699.00    $      131,572.00

H7                    12                      $      4,199.00    $      100,776.00

H8                    1                        $      4,499.00    $           8,998.00

H9                    13                      $      4,199.00     $      109,174.00

                                                                                 $      943,410.00

MID-SHIP BALCONY ROOMS

M1                    2                       $      2,849.00     $         11,396.00

M2                   20                      $      1,849.00     $         73,960.00

M3                   16                      $      1,829.00     $         58,528.00

M4                   4                        $      1,829.00     $         14,632.00

M6                   22                      $      2,029.00     $         89,276.00

M9                   20                      $      2,099.00     $         83,960.00

MA                  60                      $      1,829.00      $      219,480.00

MB                  80                      $      1,809.00      $      289,440.00

MC                  82                      $      1,799.00      $      295,036.00

MX                   2                       $      1,599.00      $           6,396.00

                                                                                $   1,142,104.00

BALCONY ROOMS

B1                   38                      $      1,899.00      $      144,324.00

B2                   68                      $      1,659.00      $      225,624.00

B3                   76                      $      1,649.00      $      250,648.00

B4                   28                      $      1,649.00      $         92,344.00

B6                   24                      $      1,749.00      $         83,952.00

B9                   28                      $      1,799.00      $      100,744.00

BA                 142                     $      1,649.00       $      468,316.00

BB                 168                     $      1,639.00       $      550,704.00

BC                 170                     $      1,629.00       $      553,860.00

BD                 118                      $      1,619.00      $      382,084.00

BE                 144                      $      1,609.00       $      463,392.00

BF                 160                      $      1,599.00       $      511,680.00

BX                    4                       $      1,399.00       $         11,192.00

                                                                                   $   3,838,864.00

OCEANVIEW ROOMS

O1                   38                      $      1,599.00      $      121,524.00

O2                    9                       $      1,449.00      $         26,082.00

OA                  25                      $      1,429.00       $         71,450.00

OB                  34                       $      1,399.00      $         95,132.00

OX                    2                       $      1,199.00      $           4,796.00

OK                    6                       $      1,199.00      $         14,388.00

                                                                                  $      333,372.00

INSIDE ROOMS

I1                    68                       $      1,169.00      $      158,984.00

IA                    70                       $      1,149.00      $      160,860.00

IB                    62                       $      1,139.00      $      141,236.00

IC                    30                       $      1,129.00      $         67,740.00

ID                    62                       $      1,109.00      $      137,516.00

IF                    30                        $      1,099.00     $         65,940.00

IX                     2                         $          999.00     $           3,996.00

                                                                                   $      736,272.00

STUDIO ROOMS

TI                   82                         $      1,599.00      $      131,118.00

                                                                                  $      131,118.00

 

 

HAVEN  TOTAL  = $    943,410.00

 

NON-HAVEN 

$ 1,142,104.00

 $ 3,838,864.00

 $    333,372.00

 $    736,272.00

 $    131,118.00

TOTAL =  $ 6,181,730.00  or 6.5x as much as Haven 

I knew there was a boat load of balcony rooms on a ship...that is the bread and butter.  (pun intended)

Edited by PTC DAWG

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10 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I knew there was a boat load of balcony rooms on a ship...that is the bread and butter.  (pun intended)

It is interesting how cruise ships have evolved over the last 25 years. 

 

When you're docked next to RCI or Carnival boats with few balconies (or none) you know they're much older ships. The industry clearly saw the demand for balcony access and adjusted accordingly. 

 

That said, a change like that doesn't impact the rest of the passengers like the ones being discussed here. It's not like that space on the side of the hull was being used for anything before, whereas the public sundecks now blocked off on the Getaway, Bliss, and Encore absolutely were. 

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2 hours ago, PortFees45 said:

It is interesting how cruise ships have evolved over the last 25 years. 

 

When you're docked next to RCI or Carnival boats with few balconies (or none) you know they're much older ships. The industry clearly saw the demand for balcony access and adjusted accordingly. 

 

That said, a change like that doesn't impact the rest of the passengers like the ones being discussed here. It's not like that space on the side of the hull was being used for anything before, whereas the public sundecks now blocked off on the Getaway, Bliss, and Encore absolutely were. 

Bit OT, but there is a great docu on the QE2 ship, ( called QE2 the world's greatest cruise ship)  which basically defied all predictions about huge passenger ships demise as the jet age begun, and she basically became the model all modern cruise ships still follow to this day.  Well worth a watch!

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2 hours ago, nafanny29 said:

Bit OT, but there is a great docu on the QE2 ship, ( called QE2 the world's greatest cruise ship)  which basically defied all predictions about huge passenger ships demise as the jet age begun, and she basically became the model all modern cruise ships still follow to this day.  Well worth a watch!

Not to quibble but the QE2 was an ocean liner, not a cruise ship

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I admit to not reading this whole thread... makes me nauseas... however, IMO, the only one who feels that we're back to "class cruising" is you.. and a few others. Most of us understand that cruising is a choice we make as our preferred vacation.  If we want something which costs less, we'll choose something else. JMO! 

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7 hours ago, Ck37421 said:

Mars Bars in the US are Snickers Almond. Milky Way is similar to Three Musketeers but not exactly the same. The European versions are sold in some stores here in the US, along with Maltesers (yum). My husband worked for Mars for 20 years so I know way to much about them 😂

 

Milky Way is nothing like a three musketeers

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19 hours ago, GA Dave said:

Sitting at my desk right now eating the sandwich my wife packed for me while all my employees are out eating lunch at Chili's, Olive Garden, etc.  I also drive a 2000 Durango that I bought for cash years ago.  That's how I can save 25% of my income for my retirement and several hundred dollars a week into my vacation fund.

you,  Peachypooh and a few others are making good sense. Why can't mr and mrs negative see this side of the issue. We all do what we want with our money and no one needs to live the same way. As for increases in products, travel related or not, it happens guys. I kinda thought companies were in business to make money. Never raising prices or making cuts and most companies would cease doing that. 

By having basic off the shelf prices and having up sells available companies do make a profit and we are given options. When it comes to cruisers, some spend their money on suites, others on specialty dining, other on spa treatments and other choose to go bare bones. No one forces any of us to spend more than we feel comfortable with spending.  

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"No one forces any of us to spend more than we feel comfortable with spending. "

 

Not really true. Look at the Encore. NCL is obviously making the decision to make the (tiny) amount of public upper deck space SO overwhelmingly crowded and unpleasant that pax who would never have otherwise opted for a Vibe pass now have to. 

 

For God's sake, look at the overhead visual of the Encore with the color-coded sections. I've been on Breakaway and Escape many times. The midship pooldeck area is always a ZOO except for maybe on port days mid-day, and that's WITH a free H20 and more public sundeck space. Take those away, and that tiny sliver between the stack and the forward stairs is going to be INSANE. So are you face with being told to buy a Vibe pass or get thrown off the ship? No, but NCL is still applying substantial "force" to get you to buy them. 

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There are other cruise lines.  Being platinum plus on NCL does not stop me from taking a better deal on another line.  Balconies on RCI Quantum class ships are only a few hundred dollars more than inside, nothing on NCL compares.

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10 minutes ago, mugtech said:

There are other cruise lines.  Being platinum plus on NCL does not stop me from taking a better deal on another line.  Balconies on RCI Quantum class ships are only a few hundred dollars more than inside, nothing on NCL compares.

If NCL wants me to start looking at the Anthem of the Seas across the Hudson (which I hadn't previously because of loyalty to NCL) I'm happy to oblige them. 

 

And once Frank Del Rio runs off people like me, he'll be sailing verrrry empty and verrry big ships once the economy crashes ant the Instagram Millennials he has such an ephemeral fetish for stop cruising en masse. 

Edited by PortFees45

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47 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

"No one forces any of us to spend more than we feel comfortable with spending. "

 

Not really true. Look at the Encore. NCL is obviously making the decision to make the (tiny) amount of public upper deck space SO overwhelmingly crowded and unpleasant that pax who would never have otherwise opted for a Vibe pass now have to. 

 

For God's sake, look at the overhead visual of the Encore with the color-coded sections. I've been on Breakaway and Escape many times. The midship pooldeck area is always a ZOO except for maybe on port days mid-day, and that's WITH a free H20 and more public sundeck space. Take those away, and that tiny sliver between the stack and the forward stairs is going to be INSANE. So are you face with being told to buy a Vibe pass or get thrown off the ship? No, but NCL is still applying substantial "force" to get you to buy them. 

And NO ONE is FORCING you to sail that ship.

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No. But if you like ncl for many years and now new people in charge makes decisions you don’t like, it is ok to discuss this and tell your displeasures about that. 

Ncl should be glad that they have customers who care about that. 

I still like ncl and would cruise with them again. But in the future more with last minutes deals and I will not book years ago like in the past. 

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29 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

If NCL wants me to start looking at the Anthem of the Seas across the Hudson (which I hadn't previously because of loyalty to NCL) I'm happy to oblige them. 

 

And once Frank Del Rio runs off people like me, he'll be sailing verrrry empty and verrry big ships once the economy crashes ant the Instagram Millennials he has such an ephemeral fetish for stop cruising en masse. 

I'm sure NCL has done a lot more research on what the current cruising market is and what their current targeted customer base is looking for than you have.  It appears that you may not be the targeted customer base that NCL is looking at for their current dry docks and new builds.  That doesn't mean that targeted customer base is not out there and willing to spend money on what NCL is currently offering.  It just means you are not part of it.

 

You are not happy because they currently are not catering to your wants and needs on their future dry-docks and new builds.  So make yourself happy and find another ship or line that better suits you.  It makes no sense to me why someone would rather waste their time complaining that they can't get what they want from some company rather than going out and finding a way to get what they from another.  It is not NCL's job to make YOU happy.  That is your job.  It is NCL's job to find a strong target market, try to make the majority of them happy with what they offer, and make a profit for their shareholders.

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15 minutes ago, Steff79 said:

No. But if you like ncl for many years and now new people in charge makes decisions you don’t like, it is ok to discuss this and tell your displeasures about that. 

Ncl should be glad that they have customers who care about that. 

I still like ncl and would cruise with them again. But in the future more with last minutes deals and I will not book years ago like in the past. 

 

I like NCL too but because of the bidding system which is one of the reasons why Havenprices have been raised a lot I don't plan to cruise with them again.

 

The problem is that MSC have started some kind of bidding system too. I have not seen the YC prices go up a lot yet but who know what will happen In the future.

Edited by sverigecruiser

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4 minutes ago, Warm Breezes said:

I'm sure NCL has done a lot more research on what the current cruising market is and what their current targeted customer base is looking for than you have.  It appears that you may not be the targeted customer base that NCL is looking at for their current dry docks and new builds.  That doesn't mean that targeted customer base is not out there and willing to spend money on what NCL is currently offering.  It just means you are not part of it.

 

You are not happy because they currently are not catering to your wants and needs on their future dry-docks and new builds.  So make yourself happy and find another ship or line that better suits you.  It makes no sense to me why someone would rather waste their time complaining that they can't get what they want from some company rather than going out and finding a way to get what they from another.  It is not NCL's job to make YOU happy.  That is your job.  It is NCL's job to find a strong target market, try to make the majority of them happy with what they offer, and make a profit for their shareholders.

Totally agree...it's not like corporations have ever made stupid mistakes before in a short-term push for higher profits. And Norwegian never makes mistakes analyzing the cruise market, either. After all, NCL Joy is selling out all those Chinese cruises...oh...wait. 

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