Loving to Hate Hal

[pete_coach]

13 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

As stated before by many, this is a cruise industry problem. These companies continue to build huge multi million dollar ships but then cut down on amenities while they continue to charge more for for drinks, photos, tours and specialty restaurants. We all have a choice, to cruise or not to cruise. We will continue to cruise as long as we can find fairly low rates as we try to cruise 3-4 times a year. Orlando must hate us because on our many cruises we have been there and done that so we basically we now stay on the ship, only have 1 cocktail each before dinner and spend very little in the shops and do without the internet for a week.

As far our biggest issue with HAL, it has to be the lack of entertainment especially with the production shows in the theater. Let's face it, how many times can you attend shows in the Lincoln Center, BB Kings and Billboard Onboard. Not having a small band in the Ocean Bar is another issue that should be addressed. Can't think of any other lines that we sail on that has no music in their lounge areas.

Perhaps the "lack of entertainment" and diminishing amenities is the result of people that "spend very little".  The company needs folks to spend so it can afford to provide amenities.

There are many examples of companies that have undercut prices and quality to retain business..... until they failed.

[pete_coach]

6 hours ago, Brad1185 said:

I used to like Hal a lot then the cutback came one after another.  Eventually I was able to get past that. Now I am hung up with the trail Hal did to charge for entrees in the mdr.  So not sure when I can move past that.  So for now no Hal cruises. Maybe some day in the future. 

Huh? What is this. First time HAL cruise coming up. What s this? Pay fr dinner at MDR?

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, pete_coach said:

Huh? What is this. First time HAL cruise coming up. What s this? Pay fr dinner at MDR?

 

HAL ran an experiment (poster meant "trial" not "trail") charging $10 for a second entree in the MDR. They were not charging for the first entree or other parts of the meal. It was this winter for a month or two and only on a few ships. HUGE pushback and at the end of the experiment, the charge went away and hasn't been seen since.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

16 minutes ago, pete_coach said:

And how would you know that without reading? LOL

 

Read until the tone gets annoying and then walk away. Easy. Kind of like learning which posters are not worth paying attention to and using the ignore function.

 

[Cruzaholic41]

15 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

As far our biggest issue with HAL, it has to be the lack of entertainment especially with the production shows in the theater. Let's face it, how many times can you attend shows in the Lincoln Center, BB Kings and Billboard Onboard. Not having a small band in the Ocean Bar is another issue that should be addressed. Can't think of any other lines that we sail on that has no music in their lounge areas.

I totally agree. While all lines have suffered cutbacks, no other line has cut entertainment to the extreme HAL has. All these “hate HAL” threads and bad reviews that have been popping up lately are well justified, especially in that regard. 

[Cruzaholic41]

1 hour ago, pete_coach said:

Perhaps the "lack of entertainment" and diminishing amenities is the result of people that "spend very little".  

No, it’s not. It because HAL has gone too far with their partnering of other brand names (BBKing, BBC, Billboard, Lincoln, Oprah). They took it too far. I’ve even heard ships officers say the same thing. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

14 minutes ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

No, it’s not. It because HAL has gone too far with their partnering of other brand names (BBKing, BBC, Billboard, Lincoln, Oprah). They took it too far. I’ve even heard ships officers say the same thing. 

 

Does anyone know who pays whom for these partnerships? My guess would be that HAL is paying them--let's face it, Oprah is more famous than HAL. I'd love to know how these deals work. 

 

[MISTER 67]

5 hours ago, pete_coach said:

Perhaps the "lack of entertainment" and diminishing amenities is the result of people that "spend very little".  The company needs folks to spend so it can afford to provide amenities.

There are many examples of companies that have undercut prices and quality to retain business..... until they failed.

Not that it's any business of yours but we have spent plenty on the 61 cruises we have been on. Now that we are retired we watch our shekels  and refuse to spend on overpriced items on cruise ships. On Princess being Elite, we get 300 minutes of free internet service, why when I sail on these other lines like HAL and Celebrity should I pay for 1 week of internet service on a ship that I get for 12 to 16 weeks on my home service.

If some people aren't spending what Orlando wants, then raise the price of the cruise. What we pay for a cruise should cover things like decent entertainment along with decent food and very good service.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by MISTER 67

[MISTER 67]

2 minutes ago, MISTER 67 said:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by MISTER 67

[terrydtx]

9 hours ago, pete_coach said:

Perhaps the "lack of entertainment" and diminishing amenities is the result of people that "spend very little".  The company needs folks to spend so it can afford to provide amenities.

There are many examples of companies that have undercut prices and quality to retain business..... until they failed.

I think it may be more with the older demos like my wife and I, we are in bed by 9:00pm too exhausted to see a lame production show in a crowded theater. Some cruise lines like NCL are actually charging admission to see the production shows, according to our friends who just returned from an NCL cruise. If I want to see a first rate production or Broadway show I will go see one in my home town, not on a cruise ship.

[Dunelm]

I continue to be bewildered by all the complaints and angst.  Certainly, there are some legitimate reasons; however, we have been barraged by many complaints that, to me, seem to be picky.  Could it be that most of the complainers are so frustrated with their lives and chaotic countries that they are projecting these aggravations on to something else?  Otherwise, I continue to remain bewildered.

[opa&oma]

We were on Koningsdam for 3 weeks last month and LOVED the entertainment!  The entertainment being: BB KIng's Blues Club, in which the band was outstanding! and the Rolling Stones Room, both of which were always packed and people dancing, and Lincoln Center, playing beautiful music we don't usually have the opportunity to hear live.  We consider the available music venues to be vastly superior to the lame production shows.  There was finally some active night life on a HAL ship!

[AncientWanderer]

9 minutes ago, opa&oma said:

We were on Koningsdam for 3 weeks last month and LOVED the entertainment!  The entertainment being: BB KIng's Blues Club, in which the band was outstanding! and the Rolling Stones Room, both of which were always packed and people dancing, and Lincoln Center, playing beautiful music we don't usually have the opportunity to hear live.  We consider the available music venues to be vastly superior to the lame production shows.  There was finally some active night life on a HAL ship!

 

We like the new entertainment, too.  I think where the problem lies is probably with the older, smaller ships. They can't really incorporate in these new offerings as seamlessly.  

 

But, also, there are people who really do enjoy the production shows.  We cruised this summer with an old friend and she was just super disappointed that these shows are gone.  I was surprised, as we quit going to them long ago.  I guess point being, HAL needs to work on having a good mix of entertainment offerings.

 

[Cruzaholic41]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

Some cruise lines like NCL are actually charging admission to see the production shows, according to our friends who just returned from an NCL cruise. If I want to see a first rate production or Broadway show I will go see one in my home town, not on a cruise ship.

There is no truth whatsoever to that statement.

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Some cruise lines like NCL are actually charging admission to see the production shows, according to our friends who just returned from an NCL cruise. If I want to see a first rate production or Broadway show I will go see one in my home town, not on a cruise ship.

 

Your friends might be confused, or least did not explain it properly.  NCL recommends reservations for their production shows on their newer ships, but they do not charge for them.  Or maybe they were talking about the dinner theater show that has a fee.  

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, Dunelm said:

Could it be that most of the complainers are so frustrated with their lives and chaotic countries that they are projecting these aggravations on to something else?  

 

Chaotic countries?  Huh?

[SetAnOpenCourse]

1 hour ago, opa&oma said:

We were on Koningsdam for 3 weeks last month and LOVED the entertainment!  The entertainment being: BB KIng's Blues Club, in which the band was outstanding! and the Rolling Stones Room, both of which were always packed and people dancing, and Lincoln Center, playing beautiful music we don't usually have the opportunity to hear live.  We consider the available music venues to be vastly superior to the lame production shows.  There was finally some active night life on a HAL ship!

There are outstanding cover bands all over the place.  Any given Saturday night, you can easily find them.  No need to cruise to find quality rock, soul, etc. cover bands (apparently BBKings rarely plays Blues).

 

Quality, traditional ships, on the other hand, are not so easy to find.

[HappyInVan]

5 hours ago, Dunelm said:

I continue to be bewildered by all the complaints and angst.  Certainly, there are some legitimate reasons; however, we have been barraged by many complaints that, to me, seem to be picky.  Could it be that most of the complainers are so frustrated with their lives and chaotic countries that they are projecting these aggravations on to something else?  Otherwise, I continue to remain bewildered.

 

Reminder: Always blame management. Never blame the customers.

 

Or, you could blame yourself for reading the critical comments?

 

[pete_coach]

18 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

Not that it's any business of yours but we have spent plenty on the 61 cruises we have been on. Now that we are retired we watch our shekels  and refuse to spend on overpriced items on cruise ships. On Princess being Elite, we get 300 minutes of free internet service, why when I sail on these other lines like HAL and Celebrity should I pay for 1 week of internet service on a ship that I get for 12 to 16 weeks on my home service.

If some people aren't spending what Orlando wants, then raise the price of the cruise. What we pay for a cruise should cover things like decent entertainment along with decent food and very good service.

 

 

 

Are you somehow feeling guilty? I made a general comment. What you do is none of my business but my comment is valid. 

It is not a matter of what Orlando wants, it is a matter of is it profitable to stay in buisiness.

[HappyInVan]

2 hours ago, pete_coach said:

It is not a matter of what Orlando wants, it is a matter of is it profitable to stay in buisiness.

 

The point is that Carnival's profit margin has improved substantially since 2014. See my post #22 on page 1...

 

"The oil of oil has fallen from its peak in 2011 by a lot a lot.

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart

 

 

All cruise lines have benefited.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ccl/financials

 

Carnival Corp Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) excluding D&A (depreciation and amortization) has declined from 65% (2014) to 58% (2018). Profits are up and share price is up. Donald and Arnold are not going to be fired tomorrow...

 

What I am unhappy about is that the cruise companies are cutting benefits even as their costs pummel and margins rise. A gold star for the reader who can guess right. Which brands are cutting their quality the most?"

 

 

[MISTER 67]

6 hours ago, pete_coach said:

Are you somehow feeling guilty? I made a general comment. What you do is none of my business but my comment is valid. 

It is not a matter of what Orlando wants, it is a matter of is it profitable to stay in buisiness. We all have other choices.

I feel guilty about absolutely nothing, my bank account is far more important than HAL's bottom line, if they aren't doing well it's because they continue to cut one thing after another which mean their business formula isn't working. We are sailing on the Nieuw Amsterdam on November 30, it might be our last cruise with them which brings me no joy but our loyalty to HAL is shrinking away.

Edited October 3, 2019 by MISTER 67

[HamOp]

On 10/2/2019 at 11:03 AM, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Does anyone know who pays whom for these partnerships? My guess would be that HAL is paying them--let's face it, Oprah is more famous than HAL. I'd love to know how these deals work. 

 

I know who pays.  YOU DO!

[HappyInVan]

On 10/2/2019 at 5:45 PM, SetAnOpenCourse said:

Quality, traditional ships, on the other hand, are not so easy to find.

 

+1

[iancal]

I suspect that the negativity and/or criticism of HAL is as much about HAL as it is the mass market cruise lines in general.

 

if we select a Princess or an X ship over a HAL choice it is certainly not because we hate HAL.  It is simply because, on that particular offering another cruise line hits more of the plusses.  Next cruise it could easily be a HAL ship that we select.

 

Loyalty?  Who  really expects a commercial enterprise to be loyal.  Their first loyalty is to their shareholders.  Besides, a change in corporate direction is hardly disloyal.  Is Ford disloyal to it’s customer base by ceasing production of many car models? Or are they looking to their future profitability and viability as a manufacturer?

[awhcruiser]

On 9/30/2019 at 6:27 PM, Tennessee Titan said:

Do we REALLY need this thread????

Exactly!