tipping

[VMax1700]

I normally don't post on 'Tip/Gratuity/Daily charge' threads, but would just like to comment, that as 'tipping' is a largely N. American (USA) thing, it is amazing to me, as a European(where tipping is discretionary), to find through threads similar to this one that even the N. Americans cannot agree on the operation of the culture they created! 

[navybankerteacher]

53 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

Those would be reasons not to engage in the practice.  Don't want to spend the money, willing to accept that others are being served before them or tightly bound by a moral opposition to what they deem "bribery."  Another might be simply not being aware the opportunity exists. Are there others? 

It is not a "moral opposition" - it is an ethical preference.  Some of us simply do not want to create an environment where those who wave the twenty in front of the bar tender will always get served before those who stepped up to the bar earlier.

 

My ego is not so fragile that I cannot wait my turn.

 

Paying someone extra to give you preference over others is bribery, you do not need to call it "bribery".  Extra punctuation serves little valid purpose.

[DirtyDawg]

5 minutes ago, VMax1700 said:

I normally don't post on 'Tip/Gratuity/Daily charge' threads, but would just like to comment, that as 'tipping' is a largely N. American (USA) thing, it is amazing to me, as a European(where tipping is discretionary), to find through threads similar to this one that even the N. Americans cannot agree on the operation of the culture they created! 

 

I know we have a good amount of older posters here on Cruise Critic but I don't think any are from the generation of North Americans who created the 'culture'. 😁

 

But even if they were, is it really that uncommon to find that people in a country cannot agree on the operation of  a 'culture' their generation created? For example, entering and now possibly , maybe, exiting the EU. Hmmm?

[K32682]

20 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

It is not a "moral opposition" - it is an ethical preference.  Some of us simply do not want to create an environment where those who wave the twenty in front of the bar tender will always get served before those who stepped up to the bar earlier.

 

My ego is not so fragile that I cannot wait my turn.

 

Paying someone extra to give you preference over others is bribery, you do not need to call it "bribery".  Extra punctuation serves little valid purpose.

 

Ethical preference and moral opposition are the same thing.  

 

The punctuation marks are there because technically it is not bribery but a facilitating payment.  Bribery is paying someone to do something they wouldn't do otherwise.  A facilitating payment is payment meant to speed up service.  It is no different than paying extra for a faster passport or quicker check-in. 

 

My ego is not so fragile that I feel compelled to adhere to someone else's "ethical preferences." 

 

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, K32682 said:

 

…

 

... Bribery is paying someone to do something they wouldn't do otherwise. ...

...

 

When you pre-tip a bar tender in the hope that he will serve you before others who were at the bar before you, or will give you "a generous pour", you are, in fact, paying him do something he would not do otherwise;  and when you pay a cabin steward extra money up front in the expectation that he will give you better service than he might provide otherwise, you are obviously paying him to do something he would not do otherwise ------  by your own definition you are bribing him.

 

 

[ilikeanswers]

38 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

It is not a "moral opposition" - it is an ethical preference.  Some of us simply do not want to create an environment where those who wave the twenty in front of the bar tender will always get served before those who stepped up to the bar earlier.

 

I have read about this practice and it does bother me also. The person who ordered first should always get served first I have no probem waiting my turn. It's going to end up being a bidding war of people tipping higher and higher to get to the top of the line and those who can't afford it are going to be pushed further down the line. It is unfair and it should be discouraged by cruiselines

[DirtyDawg]

18 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I have read about this practice and it does bother me also. The person who ordered first should always get served first I have no probem waiting my turn. It's going to end up being a bidding war of people tipping higher and higher to get to the top of the line and those who can't afford it are going to be pushed further down the line. It is unfair and it should be discouraged by cruiselines

 

I'll play the Devil's advocate here.

A lot of people use their advantages in life to get further advantages.

Tall people can get noticed at a crowded bar.

Have any of the tall people on this thread ever used that to their advantage?

A nice looking lady (or man) might use that advantage to get the bartender's attention.

Any of the good-looking ladies (or men) here ever done that? 

An outgoing, chatty or witty person might use that to chat up waiters to get better service.

Any chatty or witty people here ever used your gift of gab to get better service? 

 

Psst. I've been guilty of using one of the above to get better service at times. 😀

 

So why not use the advantage of more money to also get an advantage? 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by DirtyDawg

[wowzz]

10 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

I'll play the Devil's advocate here.

A lot of people use their advantages in life to get further advantages.

Tall people can get noticed at a crowded bar.

Have any of the tall people on this thread ever used that to their advantage?

A nice looking lady (or man) might use that advantage to get the bartender's attention.

Any of the good-looking ladies (or men) here ever done that? 

An outgoing, chatty or witty person might use that to chat up waiters to get better service.

Any chatty or witty people here ever used your gift of gab to get better service? 

 

Psst. I've been guilty of using one of the above to get better service at times. 😀

 

So why not use the advantage of more money to also get an advantage? 

 

 

If you think you will get served quicker in a pub in the UK because you are tall, you are in for a severe disappointment,  or possibly a good kicking!

[clo]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

I have been wondering though is automatic gratuity a USA only practice? Does this happen on ships that cruise outside the US?

We've cruised twice with Hurtigruten, a Norwegian based line, and they had auto-gratuities.

[navybankerteacher]

27 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

...

 

So why not use the advantage of more money to also get an advantage? 

 

 

If you want to use more money to get an advantage I suppose you will.  But please do not try to corrupt our language, as well as our behavior,  by trying to make yourself feel better about bribery by saying it is not bribery but a “facility payment”.

 

Sort of like saying “I did not lie, I misspoke”.

[Sif]

Question: What "better service" are people expecting that they will get from a cabin steward? An extra towel animal or something? The bedsheets can only be tucked in so tightly.

 

I guess I just don't understand what special advantage people are worried about others getting, because in my opinion the room is either cleaned or it isn't. It's not like a steward is going to place a gold bar under your pillow if you tip on the first day.

[sparks1093]

2 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Royal Carib used to publish the breakdown.  The cabin steward got X % of the tip, wait staff got y % etc.  No difference for seniority.

 

Do land based waiters get tips based on seniority.

 

Also, for many lines, it has been reported if you take off the automated gratuities, any cash tips MUST be turned in by the employee and they go into the top pool to be paid out by the same % basis as auto gratuities.

 

As for those who just say, the staff can not turn them in, if they are caught doing that, they can be terminated at the next port, and have to make their own way home.  How likely would YOU be to put your job at risk in this manner????

 

This was posted in 2018:

I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if there were a pooling system in place. But if the steward has an assistant (which has been the case on our last few cruises) then it's reasonable to expect that the daily tip is split between them and it's also reasonable to expect that the steward gets a higher percentage than the assistant. I know that I wouldn't risk my job for $20.

[sparks1093]

17 minutes ago, Sif said:

Question: What "better service" are people expecting that they will get from a cabin steward? An extra towel animal or something? The bedsheets can only be tucked in so tightly.

 

I guess I just don't understand what special advantage people are worried about others getting, because in my opinion the room is either cleaned or it isn't. It's not like a steward is going to place a gold bar under your pillow if you tip on the first day.

The ice in your bucket is colder.😉 

 

If I'm waiting at a bar and someone walks up and gets served before I do I think I'd be taking that concern to the bar manager.  

[DirtyDawg]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

If you think you will get served quicker in a pub in the UK because you are tall, you are in for a severe disappointment,  or possibly a good kicking!

 

I take it that you have never used your height to an advantage in getting better service at the pub.

But have you used your striking good looks or your rapier British wit!  😉

 

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

I take it that you have never used your height to an advantage in getting better service at the pub.

But have you used your striking good looks or your rapier British wit!  😉

 

Obviously I always get offered a drink the moment I venture up to the bar, but being a true gent, I always let those less well endowed  get served first!

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

It is not a "moral opposition" - it is an ethical preference.  Some of us simply do not want to create an environment where those who wave the twenty in front of the bar tender will always get served before those who stepped up to the bar earlier.

 

My ego is not so fragile that I cannot wait my turn.

 

Paying someone extra to give you preference over others is bribery, you do not need to call it "bribery".  Extra punctuation serves little valid purpose.

If providing consideration prior to a service is bribery, then those 4* and 5 * mariners who receive priority tendering are also guilty of bribery.

[c-boy]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

The ice in your bucket is colder.😉 

 

If I'm waiting at a bar and someone walks up and gets served before I do I think I'd be taking that concern to the bar manager.  

🤣 my ice bucket was never empty. I hope the host post # 7 helped with your question. 

[DirtyDawg]

24 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Obviously I always get offered a drink the moment I venture up to the bar, but being a true gent, I always let those less well endowed  get served first!

 

A true Gentleman. I too always get offered a drink the moment I venture up to the bar but I have to admit that I taken my drink before those less endowed wretches on one or two occasions. Forgive me, I was raised in the colonies. 

[DirtyDawg]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

If you want to use more money to get an advantage I suppose you will.  But please do not try to corrupt our language, as well as our behavior,  by trying to make yourself feel better about bribery by saying it is not bribery but a “facility payment”.

 

Sort of like saying “I did not lie, I misspoke”.

 

Oh dear, I didn't realize the good people of Cruise Critic were so easily corrupted by a post. 😮

 

I wonder how much nationwide corruption was done when Aaron Rogers accepted that $55M+ "facility payment" last year or when Russell Wilson accepted his $65M signing bonus earlier this year? 

 

My youngest just graduated from University this past spring, Should I tell him to payback the signing bonus the Tech company paid him to bribe him to join their company?

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by DirtyDawg

[clo]

2 hours ago, Sif said:

Question: What "better service" are people expecting that they will get from a cabin steward? An extra towel animal or something? The bedsheets can only be tucked in so tightly.

 

I guess I just don't understand what special advantage people are worried about others getting, because in my opinion the room is either cleaned or it isn't. It's not like a steward is going to place a gold bar under your pillow if you tip on the first day.

That may be what I'm grappling with.  And, as I wrote, I'm pretty low maintenance.  

[clo]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

If providing consideration prior to a service is bribery,

I seem to have asked this of someone but don't remember any answer: If you're out to dinner on shore, do you give your server money up front? If you're in a hotel, do you ask your housekeeper to stop by so you can give her money up front?  I think some of us would be relieved if you just said "yeah, I bribe them." And as NBT said if I saw that kind of inequity, including doubles and triples, I'd be talking to management.

[OCruisers]

TIPPING:   Early & Often .... with a discreet handshake.   

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

If providing consideration prior to a service is bribery, then those 4* and 5 * mariners who receive priority tendering are also guilty of bribery.

If you cannot tell the difference between receiving something from a cruise line for which you have openly paid one way or the other, and inducing an employee of that line to discriminate between paying customers of that line by depriving some and favoring others —- you should, perhaps, avoid getting involved in serious conversations.

 

Or would you equate paying higher fare for a business class seat on a plane with slipping a flight attendant a couple of hundred $ to move you from coach to business class when no one was looking.?

Edited November 17, 2019 by navybankerteacher

[clo]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

If you cannot tell the difference between receiving something from a cruise line for which you have openly paid one way or the other, and inducing an employee of that line to discriminate between paying customers of that line by depriving some and favoring others —- you should, perhaps, avoid getting involved in serious conversations.

 

Or would you equate paying higher fare for a business class seat on a plane with slipping a flight attendant a couple of hundred $ to move you from coach to business class when no one was looking.?

I remember a corporate ethics thing.  They said if you can't decide if ethically you should do or not do something, ask yourself if you'd be comfortable explaining it to the chairman of the board.  So if you're going to bribe someone on a ship, i.e., bartender, are you cool with asking the captain how she feels about it?

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

...

 

.  So if you're going to bribe someone on a ship, i.e., bartender, are you cool with asking the captain how she feels about it?

Or, closer to context: if you walk into a restaurant where there are several people waiting for tables just ask them if they would have any problem with your giving the maitre d’ $50 to induce him to give you the first table.

 

There is a reason why people have developed that almost unnoticeable handshake whereby they grease the palm of someone in a position to treat them more favorably than anyone else.