Get rid of the buffets already!...

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Impossible to answer. How can you tell if it is from serving themselves at the buffet, or touching a contaminated door handle ?

 

Not impossible to answer. Sometimes it's because one of the staff is sick, hot cold is served too cold or cold food is served too warm.

 

If the cause for an outbreak is a buffet it't not door handles! If they say it's the buffet it can't be a door handle.

 

What's the point stopping self service if we don't know that can be the reason for outbreaks? If the cause is a door handle Into the restaurant will really staff serving everything stod an outbreak?

[wowzz]

12 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Not impossible to answer. Sometimes it's because one of the staff is sick, hot cold is served too cold or cold food is served too warm.

 

If the cause for an outbreak is a buffet it't not door handles! If they say it's the buffet it can't be a door handle.

 

What's the point stopping self service if we don't know that can be the reason for outbreaks? If the cause is a door handle Into the restaurant will really staff serving everything stod an outbreak?

Norovirus can be transmitted by cross contamination. It is spread by physical contact, which is why a deep clean is required to eradicate it. Nothing to do with food. 

Food poisoning is a totally different matter.

[sverigecruiser]

On 6/15/2020 at 2:47 AM, clo said:

Yeah, it makes me wonder what they do in the MDR or a decent place at home. Do they walk into the kitchen and start scooping up things?

 

Or maybe they go to the MDR when they want someone to serve them?

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Oh this makes more sense, thanks for clearing that up🤗. Apart from food poisoning outbreaks Hepititis A outbreaks I have heard of being linked to self service buffets.

 

Linked to self service buffets can also mean that the reason for the outbreak is a sick member of staff. Staff serving everything will not stop that. 

[clo]

4 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Or maybe they go to the MDR when they want someone to serve them?

The plate is being filled with the things you want and how much you want of it. Then it's handed back to you for you to take to your table.

 

Hmm, I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Are you generally averse to change?

[ilikeanswers]

Just now, sverigecruiser said:

Linked to self service buffets can also mean that the reason for the outbreak is a sick member of staff. Staff serving everything will not stop that. 

 

You can nitpick everything but at the end of the day if people aren't serving themselves you are eliminating a potential contamination source. That means you are still lessening the chance for contamination. It also means you are reducing the number of people you need to moniter and control which in turn will make it more manageable to keep hygiene standards thereby also decreasing chance of contamination.

[sverigecruiser]

26 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You can nitpick everything but at the end of the day if people aren't serving themselves you are eliminating a potential contamination source. That means you are still lessening the chance for contamination. It also means you are reducing the number of people you need to moniter and control which in turn will make it more manageable to keep hygiene standards thereby also decreasing chance of contamination.

 

 

 

I agree with you except for the nitpick part. I only asked if anyone had any statistics about reasons for outbreaks caused by buffets.

 

I have never heared about outbreaks caused by people serving themself but as I said I'm sure that can be the reason sometimes.

[ilikeanswers]

11 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

I agree with you except for the nitpick part. I only asked if anyone had any statistics about reasons for outbreaks caused by buffets.

 

Narrowing it down to a single point is extremely difficult because usually by the time anyone notices an outbreak a number of people have been infected so trying to go back to find the patient zero can be hard as people don't remember who they interacted with and what they touched and so forth. So no there wouldn't be statistics that can tell exactly what caused every outbreak in a buffet. Some cases they may have found patient zero but there wouldn't be enough to create an accurate data set. It would just be specualtion

[navybankerteacher]

17 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Narrowing it down to a single point is extremely difficult because usually by the time anyone notices an outbreak a number of people have been infected so trying to go back to find the patient zero can be hard as people don't remember who they interacted with and what they touched and so forth. So no there wouldn't be statistics that can tell exactly what caused every outbreak in a buffet. Some cases they may have found patient zero but there wouldn't be enough to create an accurate data set. It would just be specualtion

Precisely.

 

There is a lot of dismissive talk about “anecdotal” evidence;  but the fact is in the case of COVID to date (and in most other contexts) anecdotal evidence is all there is.  Sure you cannot PROVE that social distancing, or wearing a mask, or following one way aisles while shopping, or any other precaution actually protects you — but you would have to be close to brain dead to reject the notion that each has SOME protective effect.

 

At this point, pretty much everything related to dealing with COVID involves speculation; so, for the time being, we have to live with such speculation.

[RonOhio]

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Linked to self service buffets can also mean that the reason for the outbreak is a sick member of staff. Staff serving everything will not stop that. 

 

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Linked to self service buffets can also mean that the reason for the outbreak is a sick member of staff. Staff serving everything will not stop that. 

Hep A is transmitted via ingestion of fecal matter. No airborne transmission. Doesn't shed from skin, sweat or hair. So, an infected staff member doesn’t transmit it to diners as long as she washes her hands after pooping or otherwise touching her anal region. Since buffets tend to enforce policies of frequent handwashing for staff, the guests are the problem. High risk groups, people who change a diaper and do not wash (rubbing the excrement around with a handiwipe isn’t washing), children with poor impulse control (I guess you can add morons with poor impulse control), people from cultures that don’t practice handwashing after toilet use (and we’re not talking primitives here, I’ve been in plenty of Italian and french restrooms without a sink, soap and towels) and the intoxicated (gives a whole different slant on “sloppy drunk”).
Well, eliminating self serve buffets will finally stop the morons who can’t figure out that the serving spoon goes on the little plate not in the chafing dish to heat up and burn the next guest. Duh. Do you leave your car in the middle of the street? Do you walk out of the john with your dick hanging out?

[Spif Barwunkel]

Hard to believe that this thread still exists. Lot's of re-speculation on what has already been speculated many times over. By definition, buffets will remain a part of the cruising experience, make no mistake about it. How the buffet is presented and regulated has yet to be determined and could vary between cruise lines.

 

No matter the set-up and the precautions, there will still exist the possibility of contamination and thus contagion. It is inherent within any environment, especially where people and food are the prominent ingredients. All we've done is add the corona virus to that mix of contaminants. 

 

So, it is rather a moot point whether or not to belabor buffet elimination. They will remain, and as always the cruisers will remain susceptible to, but not necessarily affected by, whatever the buffet has to offer.          

[cruisemom42]

My state governor in his infinite wisdom, is further eliminating restrictions on the number of patrons in a restaurant as long as they are all appropriately spaced for social distancing. (Bars may have no more than 50 people.). He further states that those employees that do not interact with customers no longer have to wear masks. So my food is potentially being prepared by someone who could be shedding virus...

 

With regard to buffets, the order states:  "Restaurant workers are permitted to serve food to patrons “cafeteria-style” from salad bars or buffets or the restaurant can install sneeze guards, provide hand sanitizer, and replace shared utensils frequently to allow people to serve themselves."

 

This, even in the face of steadily increasing cases since May 30. 

 

I have yet to dine out anywhere since the first few days of March -- not even in an outdoor setting.

 

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Narrowing it down to a single point is extremely difficult because usually by the time anyone notices an outbreak a number of people have been infected so trying to go back to find the patient zero can be hard as people don't remember who they interacted with and what they touched and so forth. So no there wouldn't be statistics that can tell exactly what caused every outbreak in a buffet. Some cases they may have found patient zero but there wouldn't be enough to create an accurate data set. It would just be specualtion

 

It is possible to narrowing it down to a single point. I know that for sure because I have heared about outbreaks caused by sick staff, something cold served too warm or something warm served too cold. I have never heared about a case caused by the customers so I only asked if anyone had any statistics about it.

 

I absolutely understand that it's much more difficult to narrowing it down to sick customers. Maybe I should have asked how often the cause of the outbreak isn't found. 

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, RonOhio said:

So, an infected staff member doesn’t transmit it to diners as long as she washes her hands after pooping or otherwise touching her anal region. Since buffets tend to enforce policies of frequent handwashing for staff, the guests are the problem.

 

So how does the end of self service buffets stop outbreaks caused by stupid staff? 

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

He further states that those employees that do not interact with customers no longer have to wear masks. So my food is potentially being prepared by someone who could be shedding virus...

CV19 is not transmitted via ingestion. You are therefore not at risk from eating food prepared by someone who may be shedding CV19.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

So how does the end of self service buffets stop outbreaks caused by stupid staff? 

The protocols in place are strictly enforced.  The incidence of "stupid"  staff is so low as to be negligible.

You do seem to have a hang up about sickness and buffets!

[clo]

6 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You can nitpick everything but at the end of the day if people aren't serving themselves you are eliminating a potential contamination source. That means you are still lessening the chance for contamination. It also means you are reducing the number of people you need to moniter and control which in turn will make it more manageable to keep hygiene standards thereby also decreasing chance of contamination.

Exactly. And the people serving will have on masks and gloves and the passenger likely won't.

[clo]

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

but you would have to be close to brain dead to reject the notion that each has SOME protective effect.

We were just in a Reno casino for lunch/gaming and probably 90% were "close to brain dead" with no masks. I've already reported it to our governor and will be telling the owner of the casino - you know, one of those billionaires - that we won't be darkening his door until/unless it changes.

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

So how does the end of self service buffets stop outbreaks caused by stupid staff? 

We have been cruising a very long time (about 4 decades) and have encountered  very few "stupid staff."  But we have encountered many stupid passengers!  

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

CV19 is not transmitted via ingestion. You are therefore not at risk from eating food prepared by someone who may be shedding CV19.

 

Let's say they cough or sneeze on your plate as they are plating the dish and then you touch the dish at table...it's not hard to imagine that while you're dining you might touch your lips, or nose...

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

It is possible to narrowing it down to a single point. I know that for sure because I have heared about outbreaks caused by sick staff, something cold served too warm or something warm served too cold. I have never heared about a case caused by the customers so I only asked if anyone had any statistics about it.

 

I absolutely understand that it's much more difficult to narrowing it down to sick customers. Maybe I should have asked how often the cause of the outbreak isn't found. 

 

Food poisoning is usually easier to track because the type of bacteria you are infected with will normally narrow down the source. When it comes to infectious diseases it is much harder to determine who was sick first especially if people where asymptomatic, or symptoms not severe enough to go to the doctor. This is why contact tracing apps have become so important because they help to fill a lot of the time line that humans forget or simply don't know. It could be that those outbreaks where the source was not determined were the ones caused by customers and that is why we can't find who it was because generally we don't usually leave our phone, name and address when we enter most food establishments so how can you track that person down? 

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

The protocols in place are strictly enforced.  The incidence of "stupid"  staff is so low as to be negligible.

You do seem to have a hang up about sickness and buffets!

 

And still some outbreaks are caused by sick staff. 

 

I have a hang up about sickness and buffets? Really? I'm not saying that the self service buffets must close.   

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

So how does the end of self service buffets stop outbreaks caused by stupid staff? 

Of course it won’t — but it will stop outbreaks caused by stupid passengers.  It is certainly easier for the ship’s management to monitor, control and correct what the staff do than it is to monitor, control and correct what (the many more) passengers do.

[getting older slowly]

People I think we can call it time :-   650 posts

 

Most people do not want buffet to disappear...

 

But the meaning

Buffet       a meal consisting of several dishes from which guests serve themselves

Cafetera    a restaurant in which customers serve themselves from a counter and pay before eating

 

What is on a Ship is a Place      where guest/customers serve themselves.....

The difference seams to be    ( which all the decision is about )

1......it is pre plated or plated to order....   by the staff

2.... done the person put it on there own plate..   using tongs.   ( and in some cases fingers )

 

The general consensus seams to be.... food should be  pre plated or plated to order..... 

 

Thanks for your time  Don

[clo]

8 minutes ago, getting older slowly said:

Cafetera    a restaurant in which customers serve themselves from a counter and pay before eating

 

Nope. A staff member serves your plate.