Get rid of the buffets already!...

[puppycanducruise]

1 hour ago, davekathy said:

And I prefer they don't! My opinion has nothing to do with CV-19 or norovirus. 

I agree. 

[Me by the Sea]

If they have to take the buffet away, how about an automat?

[Hlitner]

8 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I think that it's probably not difficult but expensive. The problem, I think, is that lots of people prefer to serve themself. 

There are obviously some folks who do want to serve themselves but I suspect they will have to wait until they are in their own home to do that!  Self-service has always been a big public health problem which many have chosen to ignore until now.  We have all become more cognizant of contagious diseases and cruise ships must wrestle with Norovirus, Flu,  Covid-19, salmonella, e-coli and many other bugs.  Noro is definitely spread in eating venues (especially self-service) and Covid-19 may well be spread by sharing utensils.  Anyone who has been around self service buffets have seen folks doing some gross things such as tasting something and then putting it back, touching things and then leaving them for somebody else, sneezing in their hands and then gripping a common serving spoon, etc.  We feel very confident that future self-service will be strictly controlled through pre-plating and staff servers.  The day when folks could simply reach into a large bin and pull out pieces of chicken are going to be relegated to history.  I suspect that these kind of changes will soon be mandated by various health authorities around the world although the cruise lines will quickly move on their own to try and mitigate future health problems that could destroy the industry.

 

As to folks that still feel the need to heap huge portions on their plate (until they spill onto the deck)...I suspect they are going to be very disappointed.   Those folks will likely be asking servers "more please" and taking multiple pre-plated items.  When HAL moved to pre-made sandwiches (they used to have a servicing station where a cook would make custom sandwiches to folks' specifications it briefly caused me some grief.  I then realized it was simple to take 2 or 3 of those pre-made sandwiches, go to my table, deconstruct the sandwiches, and finally make one decent sandwich :).  There are ways :).

 

Hank

[clo]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

There are obviously some folks who do want to serve themselves but I suspect they will have to wait until they are in their own home to do that! 

Yeah, it makes me wonder what they do in the MDR or a decent place at home. Do they walk into the kitchen and start scooping up things?

[KnowTheScore]

14 hours ago, Hlitner said:

As to folks that still feel the need to heap huge portions on their plate (until they spill onto the deck)...I suspect they are going to be very disappointed.   Those folks will likely be asking servers "more please" and taking multiple pre-plated items. 

 

Yes that's the inevitable future.   The food in MDRs has imo lost a lot of quality and quantity over the years.  Some of it little better than Weatherspoon's fare.   Where we used to have good healthy dishes with plenty of meat fish and an abundance of vegetables (served silver service) we now get plated mediocre fare with a tiny amount of vegetables.  Yes you can always ask for more but the waiters are generally so busy having to do multiple jobs that you don't want to bother them.   Going to the self-service buffet area every now and then has been a way to get the healthy meals you want in the quantity that you want.  Not greedy mass pile ups of food, but simply a decent plate of food, with 3-4 types of vegetables in decent quantity.

 

Take that ability away from passengers and suddenly the cruising proposition starts to change.

 

I've become accustomed to paying many £1000s for a holiday in which I previously knew and expected that all my food was included and that I could have what I wanted and as much as I wanted, when I wanted.   Now that appears to have changed.  Now we get sparse plated meals little better than pub food and I find myself asking "why the hell am I paying £1000s for this?!"

 

If they want to drastically curtail the food quality and quantity then accordingly they must bring down the ticket prices.

 

.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by KnowTheScore

[clo]

2 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

Take that ability away from passengers and suddenly the cruising proposition starts to change.

 

We had our first Oceania cruise about six months ago and their "cafeteria" style worked great IMO. I would actually ask for less of things, i.e., eggs, meat. 

[Noodles84]

2 hours ago, clo said:

We had our first Oceania cruise about six months ago and their "cafeteria" style worked great IMO. I would actually ask for less of things, i.e., eggs, meat. 

I agree with you.  Oceania buffets are very well set up with plenty of servers to put exactly what you want on your plate, without you touching any of the food, or digging into bowls.  We've been on five cruises with them and not experienced any outbreaks of illness with the passengers. I'd like to see more cruise companies follow their example. Nicole

[sverigecruiser]

 

Does anyone have any statistics on the reasons for outbreaks because of buffets?

 

I sometimes hear about outbreaks but when they know why it happened it's always because one of the staff is sick, cold food served too warm or hot food served too cold. I have never heared about a case where the reason for the outbreak is that the customers serve their own food. I don't say that's never the reason, I'm sure it is, but I have never heared about it.

 

Does anyone know?

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Does anyone have any statistics on the reasons for outbreaks because of buffets?

 

I sometimes hear about outbreaks but when they know why it happened it's always because one of the staff is sick, cold food served too warm or hot food served too cold. I have never heared about a case where the reason for the outbreak is that the customers serve their own food. I don't say that's never the reason, I'm sure it is, but I have never heared about it.

 

Does anyone know?

The problem is that in an enclosed environment with over 6000 people, trying to isolate the source of any outbreak is virtually impossible, short of swabbing every individual. 

However,  the cause of any outbreak is normally due to poor hygiene practices,  caused by pax in the buffet not adhering to decent standards of cleanliness - which in essence means, if you touch it, you eat it!

[RonOhio]

Cruise ships aren't the only places with buffets. hotels, all inclusive resorts, weddings and events of all types. Remember we are not asking government bureaucrats to come up with a safe, appetizing and economical method of food delivery (good luck with that). We are asking tens of thousands of private enterprises. There is an unimaginably enormous amount of entrepreneurial initiative and creativity out there. 

[jsn55]

8 minutes ago, RonOhio said:

Cruise ships aren't the only places with buffets. hotels, all inclusive resorts, weddings and events of all types. Remember we are not asking government bureaucrats to come up with a safe, appetizing and economical method of food delivery (good luck with that). We are asking tens of thousands of private enterprises. There is an unimaginably enormous amount of entrepreneurial initiative and creativity out there. 

I agree, Ron.  The enormous creativity and initiative out there will get this done with relative ease.  And really, buffets vs served is not a very important consideration right now, quite a low priority.  We'll all get fed on a cruise ship, we'll get what we want, and hygiene will be greatly improved.  What we really want is ... to board a cruise ship and GO SOMEWHERE!!

[sverigecruiser]

5 hours ago, wowzz said:

The problem is that in an enclosed environment with over 6000 people, trying to isolate the source of any outbreak is virtually impossible, short of swabbing every individual. 

However,  the cause of any outbreak is normally due to poor hygiene practices,  caused by pax in the buffet not adhering to decent standards of cleanliness - which in essence means, if you touch it, you eat it!

 

I understand that it's difficult to isolate the source and because of that, can we really say that the cause of the outbreak is due to poor hygiene practices by pax? 

[sverigecruiser]

3 hours ago, RonOhio said:

Cruise ships aren't the only places with buffets. hotels, all inclusive resorts, weddings and events of all types. Remember we are not asking government bureaucrats to come up with a safe, appetizing and economical method of food delivery (good luck with that). We are asking tens of thousands of private enterprises. There is an unimaginably enormous amount of entrepreneurial initiative and creativity out there. 

 

How often are outbreaks caused by customers taking their own food on buffets outside cruise ships? Anyone know?

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

How often are outbreaks caused by customers taking their own food on buffets outside cruise ships? Anyone know?

I do not believe in general you are allowed to take food from the buffet off the ship. 

 

Plus ports do not let you just take any food off the ship except in general things that are pre-packaged.

[wowzz]

22 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I do not believe in general you are allowed to take food from the buffet off the ship. 

 

Plus ports do not let you just take any food off the ship except in general things that are pre-packaged.

The rules vary by country.

 

 

[ontheweb]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

The rules vary by country.

 

 

And the rules are often extremely strict.

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And the rules are often extremely strict.

Indeed. However,  if you are visiting countries such as Spain, Italy,  UK etc, there is no restriction on any foods taken ashore, and no checks either. 

[ilikeanswers]

9 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

How often are outbreaks caused by customers taking their own food on buffets outside cruise ships? Anyone know?

 

I don't think it is the taking of food off the ship that causes an outbreak. It is the communal style of eating in a buffet that makes people sick and if they are sick of transmitable disease then they can pass that disease to locals whether or not they are carrying food.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I do not believe in general you are allowed to take food from the buffet off the ship. 

 

Plus ports do not let you just take any food off the ship except in general things that are pre-packaged.

 

That is not what I mean.

 

My question was about buffets not located on a ship. I mean buffets located in restaurants on shore. How often are outbreaks on that kind of buffets caused by people taking their own food?

[wowzz]

33 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

That is not what I mean.

 

My question was about buffets not located on a ship. I mean buffets located in restaurants on shore. How often are outbreaks on that kind of buffets caused by people taking their own food?

Why would people take their own food to a buffet?

[sverigecruiser]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Why would people take their own food to a buffet?

 

I guess it's because of my bad English, I appologize for that!

 

I mean serving themself from the buffet. How often are outbreaks caused by customers serving themself? Anyone know?     

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I guess it's because of my bad English, I appologize for that!

 

I mean serving themself from the buffet. How often are outbreaks caused by customers serving themself? Anyone know?     

Impossible to answer. How can you tell if it is from serving themselves at the buffet, or touching a contaminated door handle ?

[ilikeanswers]

5 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

That is not what I mean.

 

My question was about buffets not located on a ship. I mean buffets located in restaurants on shore. How often are outbreaks on that kind of buffets caused by people taking their own food?

 

Oh this makes more sense, thanks for clearing that up🤗. Apart from food poisoning outbreaks Hepititis A outbreaks I have heard of being linked to self service buffets.

[ontheweb]

Norovirus outbreaks can also occur from communal use of utensils on the buffet. They often go to servers after such an outbreak; sort of like closing the barn door after the horses escaped.

[pacruise804]

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I guess it's because of my bad English, I appologize for that!

 

I mean serving themself from the buffet. How often are outbreaks caused by customers serving themself? Anyone know?     

 

I think it is harder to pinpoint outbreaks on land.  Most cruises are more than 3 days, so enough time for noro symptoms to show in a large enough percentage of passengers.  Nursing homes are also a similar contained environment.  Restaurants though have so many people coming through and in such a short time that it is harder to track.

 

Schools often have stomach viruses too, but I don't think it is reported the same way as cruise ships and nursing homes.

 

ETA: Your English is better than mine some days 🙂 It's easy to read a post multiple ways some times and not realize the original intent.

Edited June 17, 2020 by pacruise804