Would you wear a mask every time you were outside your cabin?

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

We also know the economic impacts of a pandemic. Scared people don't spend. Instead of going to a restaurant they would take their discretionary funds to hoard toilet paper. You don't help the economy by ignoring the infection. If anything it only makes people feel more hopeless if they feel their governments don't have a plan. The only businesses that end up reaping the profits are the COVID19 miracle cures along with alcohol, canned food and apparently toilet paper😳. 

 

Really, believe it or not the toilet paper, alcohol, and canned food are one time pops.  Consumption is just being redirect, you wipe at home versus at work, LOL.    

 

But agree we buy less gas, replace cars less likely, and don't tip and the leisure industry imploded.

 

This recession is unlike any other that it hit the service first and less so the manufacturing, versus the otherway around.  How this recovers is going to be anyones guess, the rich though are making out the best.

[chipmaster]

58 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

I work in hospitality and I lost my job in the middle of March due to COVID-19.  My place hasn't opened yet and may not until November.  When that extra $600 comes to an end in July, I will be up that particular "creek."  

So, I do not need that ad-hominem lecture.  

 

Is it worth it?  To me YES.

 

Sorry for your personal situation, I agree every life is priceless, but also think the nation and as whole the world could have done far better if we had better leadership.       

 

Takes cooperation not nationalism and rhetoric to effect a change here.

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

This is utter nonsense sorry.

 

People are still bamboozled about the whole mask wearing issue and most of it is because people have been totally lied to by their governments and by the WHO.

 

The science has ALWAYS said and known that the aerosol droplets coughs and sneezes travel 8m or more and can float and linger in the air for a substantial amount of time.    The entire 2m social distancing notion was a complete lie and nonsense from the outset.  It has protected no-one.   It has served only to make the public think they are doing something worthwhile but the reality is anyone who went out in public, to the grocery store etc, was putting themselves at risk.

 

Consequently wearing a mask to a restaurant but then taking it off once seated would be an utter nonsense.   As soon as anyone coughs or sneezes in the room lots of other people will be at risk.

 

Mask wearing was the only tangible way to slow the spread of the virus from the outset but the WHO and governments lied to everyone about their benefits because there was a scandalous shortage of PPE and/or because they actually wanted to follow a "herd immunity" strategy.  Probably both.

 

Unless masks are mandated the whole thing is a nonsense.  Making it voluntary is like taking down all the road speed limit signs and asking drivers to use their common sense when driving.   An obviously futile strategy.  

 

We are now way beyond the point at which mandating mask wearing would make a difference.  They deliberately gave everyone a bum steer on the issue from the very outset and consequently the virus spread far and wide and thousands of people have died.   Had everyone been mandated to wear a mask in public 6 months ago, things would be very  different.

 

What you have instead is a massive Campaign Of Fear perpetrated which is designed to frighten weak minded people senseless so that when a vaccine comes along everyone will go flocking to get their shots.   It's been appalling from start to finish.

 

Wearing masks on a cruise ship would just make for a horrible holiday experience.  Visually, and in terms of personal comfort.  I can't see it being a viable prospect TBH.  

 

We simply have to get to the point where we allow people to take their chances just as they do with Flu and Norovirus and the like.   Social distancing isn't going to do anything and mask wearing simply isn't feasible when you want to eat and drink.

 

Let people sign disclaimers that they are happy to take the risk on a cruise without masks, without social distancing and let people get on with it.   Those that don't want to take that risk can find an alternative vacation but in truth at some point everyone is going to have to come out of their hermit shells and face the world again.

 

.

 

You are never to late to admit mistake and how you can make things better, sadly I disagree with you on that.

 

You are naive to say it is like the Flu and Noravirus.  I guess if you want to accept we'll accept another few tens of million to die across the globe till Darwin culls the old,weak, poor, and most at risk.

 

I am one who believes we can do better, learn, rally and cooperate and create a better world because of it. 

But I too am filled with skepticism of what I see, but w/o hope you have nothing.    

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, lenquixote66 said:

Our restaurants have outdoor seating and for those that never did that before it is interesting the way they are doing it.Not that I have been able to see but I get e-mails with videos.

Yes, I should have added that some restaurants have outdoor dining, and it is allowed. (We are in the same state after all.)

 

Outdoor dining existed in some restaurants before this. We try to go to a restaurant on water on our wedding anniversary, and if there is a deck we request seating there. Unfortunately, on our last anniversary when the restaurant had the wait staff using something that looked like an I-phone instead of writing down the order, I think our waitress forgot to hit submit or whatever she was supposed to do to put the order in. And since we were out of sight we were forgotten until I went to the main dining room saw several tables that came after us eating and asked what had happened.

 

The manager did apologize and comp our meals, but it was still not worth it. There are other choices on water for the future.

[RonOhio]

3 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

This is utter nonsense sorry.

 

People are still bamboozled about the whole mask wearing issue and most of it is because people have been totally lied to by their governments and by the WHO.

 

The science has ALWAYS said and known that the aerosol droplets coughs and sneezes travel 8m or more and can float and linger in the air for a substantial amount of time.    The entire 2m social distancing notion was a complete lie and nonsense from the outset.  It has protected no-one.   It has served only to make the public think they are doing something worthwhile but the reality is anyone who went out in public, to the grocery store etc, was putting themselves at risk.

 

Consequently wearing a mask to a restaurant but then taking it off once seated would be an utter nonsense.   As soon as anyone coughs or sneezes in the room lots of other people will be at risk.

 

Mask wearing was the only tangible way to slow the spread of the virus from the outset but the WHO and governments lied to everyone about their benefits because there was a scandalous shortage of PPE and/or because they actually wanted to follow a "herd immunity" strategy.  Probably both.

 

Unless masks are mandated the whole thing is a nonsense.  Making it voluntary is like taking down all the road speed limit signs and asking drivers to use their common sense when driving.   An obviously futile strategy.  

 

We are now way beyond the point at which mandating mask wearing would make a difference.  They deliberately gave everyone a bum steer on the issue from the very outset and consequently the virus spread far and wide and thousands of people have died.   Had everyone been mandated to wear a mask in public 6 months ago, things would be very  different.

 

What you have instead is a massive Campaign Of Fear perpetrated which is designed to frighten weak minded people senseless so that when a vaccine comes along everyone will go flocking to get their shots.   It's been appalling from start to finish.

 

Wearing masks on a cruise ship would just make for a horrible holiday experience.  Visually, and in terms of personal comfort.  I can't see it being a viable prospect TBH.  

 

We simply have to get to the point where we allow people to take their chances just as they do with Flu and Norovirus and the like.   Social distancing isn't going to do anything and mask wearing simply isn't feasible when you want to eat and drink.

 

Let people sign disclaimers that they are happy to take the risk on a cruise without masks, without social distancing and let people get on with it.   Those that don't want to take that risk can find an alternative vacation but in truth at some point everyone is going to have to come out of their hermit shells and face the world again.

 

.

I assume you’re referring to the MIT physics study of aerosol dispersal. It’s correct but not relevant. Because we don’t care if we receive a speck of an infected person’s DNA, our concern is whether we will infected. A single virus or a tiny mass will don’t be sufficient to Infect the recipient. The U of Minnesota study shows that any ejecta with enough mass and fluid to infect the recipient will be affected by gravity making 2 m (6 ft) a safe distance from an infected person.   
Just because you were close enough to hear a gunshot doesn’t mean that you were hit by the bullet.

[lenquixote66]

31 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, I should have added that some restaurants have outdoor dining, and it is allowed. (We are in the same state after all.)

 

Outdoor dining existed in some restaurants before this. We try to go to a restaurant on water on our wedding anniversary, and if there is a deck we request seating there. Unfortunately, on our last anniversary when the restaurant had the wait staff using something that looked like an I-phone instead of writing down the order, I think our waitress forgot to hit submit or whatever she was supposed to do to put the order in. And since we were out of sight we were forgotten until I went to the main dining room saw several tables that came after us eating and asked what had happened.

 

The manager did apologize and comp our meals, but it was still not worth it. There are other choices on water for the future.

Yes,we are in the same state but LI will be on phase 3 this coming Wednesday.I would think Monticello would be ahead of LI.

Many of the restaurants in my area are adjacent to water bodies and when I was able to function better than I can now that would be a favorite type of restaurant to go to.

As I posted previously we had plans to go to our favorite Massapequa restaurant last month because not only is the food and service great but also the entertainment on Saturday nights

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Maybe you should ask this question of them:  would you rather lose your job or your life (or the life of your spouse, or elderly parent)?

 

 

I'm not anti-mask.  I don't think they are a conspiracy by little green men.  But I don't agree that the choice is stay home and live or go to work and die.  We cannot overlook that many many people's lives are in complete ruin.  Whether we agree or not, many would have preferred that they had been allowed to earn a living during the pandemic.     

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

But I don't agree that the choice is stay home and live or go.... 

 

....and try to continue to live as much of a normal life as possible.  As a senior citizen, that is where I am.  What's an acceptable risk to do?  There is no guidance.  It all seems to be:  "do whatever you are comfortable doing".   

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm not anti-mask.  I don't think they are a conspiracy by little green men.  But I don't agree that the choice is stay home and live or go to work and die.  We cannot overlook that many many people's lives are in complete ruin.  Whether we agree or not, many would have preferred that they had been allowed to earn a living during the pandemic.     

I was watching the Belmont Stakes earlier as I was curious to see if the jockeys would be wearing masks,they were.There were no fans at the race track .However,they kept on showing people watching the race on Zoom.There were about 40 people none of whom wore masks and they were only inches apart from each other .None of this makes sense to me.

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

....and try to continue to live as much of a normal life as possible.  As a senior citizen, that is where I am.  What's an acceptable risk to do?  There is no guidance.  It all seems to be:  "do whatever you are comfortable doing".   

 

"do whatever you are comfortable doing"

 

I don' know that answer other than I rely on what I read from CDC and my local health officials.  The discussion here is interesting but not guidance on how I will live my life.  For me personally, as things start to loosen up,  I will continue to err on the side of caution for a while. 

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, it does not support my argument because the customers are not wearing a mask in the restaurant, only in the parking lot.  How does the customer get a sense of safety when they're not wearing their masks in the restaurant?

 

Reports are that the masks are only worn while walking across the parking lot.  Is it your intention to give people a sense of safety in parking lots?  I wasn't aware that we were trying to get parking lots up and running again.  

 

You are the one arguing to reopen all businesses but what is the point if no one is patronising the businesses? If wearing a mask in the parking lot gets someone to sit down in a restaurant and pay for a meal you should be happy about this. The restaurant is making money 😉. 

 

5 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

Our restaurants have outdoor seating and for those that never did that before it is interesting the way they are doing it.Not that I have been able to see but I get e-mails with videos.

 

Alfresco dining is very popular in Australia however with the current restrictions on customer numbers I have noticed they are not setting up the outside dining. Of course we are in the middle of winter so that could be affecting their decisions🤔. 

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

....and try to continue to live as much of a normal life as possible.  As a senior citizen, that is where I am.  What's an acceptable risk to do?  There is no guidance.  It all seems to be:  "do whatever you are comfortable doing".   

I'm that same boat (pun intended).  Unfortunately, "do whatever you are comfortable doing" is the only guidance we have.  I'm OK going to certain grocery stores than others.  I'm OK going for takeout.  I'm OK going to my hairstylist.  I'm OK going camping.  I wear a mask.  I am going to go for tea with a dear friend this week at a small shop that has outside tables.  That's about as comfortable as I am right now.  I'll probably not be going into a restaurant for awhile and I certainly will not be going into a bar.   For now, it's my "normal".  No shame in that to me. 

[RonOhio]

8 hours ago, slidergirl said:

That $600 is only for 6 more weeks, as it expires the end of July.   Then, depending on state, we drop down to the $300/week that we will get in UI.  As for making more on UI, perhaps those business owners should take a serious look at how much they were offering in base pay...

You do realize that business owners don’t determine the wage rates. Supply and demand does, in other words, what you’re paid (in a private organization) depends on what you produce. If a worker doesn’t have the skills to produce more than $50,000 Of value a year then the organization can’t pay them $31,200 ($600 a week plus taxes and bennies = $50,000 out of pocket) and not go broke. Well, there’s a lot of bankrupt governments these days because they have been paying vastly more than their workers...er... employees produce. But the governments haven’t had a reckoning yet.

[RocketMan275]

10 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You are the one arguing to reopen all businesses but what is the point if no one is patronising the businesses? If wearing a mask in the parking lot gets someone to sit down in a restaurant and pay for a meal you should be happy about this. The restaurant is making money 😉. 

 

But are the restaurants making profit?  Several articles in the Wall Street Journal about how capacity limitations make profits unattainable. 

 

Essentially, you are saying that wearing masks in the parking lot is symbolic which has been one of my points.  Symbolism over effectiveness.

I think many of our politicians are making up their own science as they go along.  They believe it's important for people to believe they are contributing to the fight against this virus.  Hence a lot of politically inspired symbolic gestures.  What else can you say about the claims that one should wear a mask at walmart to protect your grandmother in her nursing home? Or, wear a mask in the parking lot to protect yourself while having a maskless dinner inside?

 

Even the CDC admits that infection requires 15-30 minutes exposure in a confined space to an infected person for the virus to spread.  Really, then why do we have these one way aisles in walmart?

 

And, of course, in a rare example of honesty, WHO has stated that asymptomatic contagion is 'extremely rare'.  As soon as they tried to walk this statement back as soon as it was noticed that the statement wasn't consistent with the narrative.

 

I'm fairly certain we will cancel our partial panama cruise in December because we believe that these protocols will be in effect.  And, yes, these protocols will be mostly symbolic gestures to reassure the public that it is safe to cruise again.  Symbolism does have it's place in reopening businesses but do not confuse it with effectiveness in preventing the spread of the virus.

Edited June 21, 2020 by RocketMan275

[navybankerteacher]

Wearing a mask is not a sure protection - but obviously anything which reduces - even in a minor degree - exposure is helpful.   The likelihood of becoming infected depends upon degree of exposure.   The normal body’s responses can usually resist minor levels - the greater the exposure to the virus will obviously increase one’s chances of becoming infected.  So, it is a matter of “virus load” - being exposed for hours to occasional viruses is risky - as is intense, short term exposure.   Walking unmasked into a cloud of droplets which a heavily infected individual has just sneezed into the air can do the job in seconds.

 

There is no safe ratio in any case - because each individuals immunity can vary with age and underlying conditions. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

And, of course, in a rare example of honesty, WHO has stated that asymptomatic contagion is 'extremely rare'.  As soon as they tried to walk this statement back as soon as it was noticed that the statement wasn't consistent with the narrative.

 

They didn't walk the statement back it simply was a, miscommunication:

Unpacking WHO’s Asymptomatic COVID-19 Transmission Comments

 

And I never said that wearing a mask is symbolic, you are twisting my words to fit what you want it to mean please don't do that. I am only pointing out that you are arguing to reopen businesses, someone has found a way to make that happen and then you complain about how they are doing it. If it works to bring patrons in regardless of your or my personal feelings towards masks you should be pleased that it is getting businesses up and running again instead of beating down the idea. Things will change one way or another and businesses either adapt or die. 

[RocketMan275]

9 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

They didn't walk the statement back it simply was a, miscommunication:

Unpacking WHO’s Asymptomatic COVID-19 Transmission Comments

 

And I never said that wearing a mask is symbolic, you are twisting my words to fit what you want it to mean please don't do that. I am only pointing out that you are arguing to reopen businesses, someone has found a way to make that happen and then you complain about how they are doing it. If it works to bring patrons in regardless of your or my personal feelings towards masks you should be pleased that it is getting businesses up and running again instead of beating down the idea. Things will change one way or another and businesses either adapt or die. 

Use whatever euphemism you prefer but they were walking back the comments.  

I'm not complaining about reopening restaurants.  I am pointing out that using flawed arguments ultimately will do more harm by undermining confidence in those making decisions.  

 

BTW, from  your link:  "While we are not privy to the member state data, Van Kerkhove is mostly right that the few epidemiology studies that exist have found little onward transmission from truly asymptomatic people, although she may have exaggerated."

Edited June 21, 2020 by RocketMan275

[clo]

19 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

Not that I have been able to see but I get e-mails with videos.

Is it that you choose to not go to them?

[ilikeanswers]

17 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

BTW, from  your link:  "While we are not privy to the member state data, Van Kerkhove is mostly right that the few epidemiology studies that exist have found little onward transmission from truly asymptomatic people, although she may have exaggerated."

 

And did you stop reading after that missing everything about the difference between asymptomatic and pre symptomatic and that there are no reliable studies to prove that it is very rare, low or even common? Picking a sentence that suits what you want to hear while completing ignoring the context is exactly why the reporting of science is so bad🤦‍♀️ 

Edited June 21, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[chipmaster]

17 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm not anti-mask.  I don't think they are a conspiracy by little green men.  But I don't agree that the choice is stay home and live or go to work and die.  We cannot overlook that many many people's lives are in complete ruin.  Whether we agree or not, many would have preferred that they had been allowed to earn a living during the pandemic.     

 

We should not embark on a policy that ruins lives and cases more deaths than the disease.  I agree pretend cure the US attempted was almost worse than the illness and started/starts with no clear national guidelines.

 

Look at almost every other successfully response regardless of political or culture had a clear leadership, strategy and attempt to resource and execute.   Other countries were and are still a chaotic distributed response of political rhetoric

 

Why does one need to say anti-mask???      A mask is like wearing hiking boots when going hiking or a seatbelt when driving, or looking both ways at a cross walk, the only reason someone says that is they've already made it a symbol, or fearful of others categorizing them...

 

Even things like masks, testing, contact tracing in some countries have no central strategy and what you do or wear has become politicized, takes leaders to rally in time of crisis.  CEOs, managers, generals, leaders rally not divide.   

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by chipmaster

[clo]

14 hours ago, slidergirl said:

I certainly will not be going into a bar.  

We went to a casino the other day for lunch and a little gaming. All the staff had on masks and almost none of the customers did. We won't be going back anytime soon. Yes, we make our choices. Right now we're in an RV park at Lake Tahoe. I almost always use the showers the parks have. I'm not comfortable with that yet. We went to a bar/restaurant about a week ago. They've removed seats from stool and have a partition between the customers and the bartenders. Oh, and this was at lunchtime so not crowd whatsoever. And, again, we wore our masks going in and leaving. We use our brains and common sense as you do.

[slidergirl]

12 hours ago, RonOhio said:

You do realize that business owners don’t determine the wage rates. Supply and demand does, in other words, what you’re paid (in a private organization) depends on what you produce. If a worker doesn’t have the skills to produce more than $50,000 Of value a year then the organization can’t pay them $31,200 ($600 a week plus taxes and bennies = $50,000 out of pocket) and not go broke. Well, there’s a lot of bankrupt governments these days because they have been paying vastly more than their workers...er... employees produce. But the governments haven’t had a reckoning yet.

Business owners sure do determine their own wage rates.  They also make sure that certain workers do not get more than 32 hours/week so they do not have to pay those "bennies."  It's a common practice.  

I'm not going to get into the whole living wage thing.  I already see enough people in my resort town struggling with what the resorts pay them...

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

And did you stop reading after that missing everything about the difference between asymptomatic and pre symptomatic and that there are no reliable studies to prove that it is very rare, low or even common? Picking a sentence that suits what you want to hear while completing ignoring the context is exactly why the reporting of science is so bad🤦‍♀️ 

Asymptomatic or pre symptomatic is just playing with words in an attempt to obfuscate their original statements, ie, walking back to preserve the narrative.  

 

Actually, politics masquerading is science is a much better explanation of poor reporting.  BTW, some studies (here in the US) have indicated that journalism majors are the next to the lowest in test scores and journalism rates next to lowest in the rigor of the curriculum.  The lowest on both counts are education majors.

[slidergirl]

58 minutes ago, clo said:

We went to a casino the other day for lunch and a little gaming. All the staff had on masks and almost none of the customers did. We won't be going back anytime soon. Yes, we make our choices. Right now we're in an RV park at Lake Tahoe. I almost always use the showers the parks have. I'm not comfortable with that yet. We went to a bar/restaurant about a week ago. They've removed seats from stool and have a partition between the customers and the bartenders. Oh, and this was at lunchtime so not crowd whatsoever. And, again, we wore our masks going in and leaving. We use our brains and common sense as you do.

You sure you aren't in Utah???  Sorry, the "Zion Curtain" comment was too easy for me.  (if you didn't know, Utah had bars put up a partition between customers and bartenders for years.  We called it the Zion Curtain. Bartenders weren't allowed to serve you - you had to have a server take your order, give it to the bartender and have him make the drink and then the server would bring it around to you,.  Fortunately, it was repealed in 2017). 

 

Most bars up here end up shoulder-to-shoulder at the bar.  That's what I don't like.  I guess one of the cons of living in a resort town.  On the other hand, our Main Street has started outdoor dining in the summer.  The City turns Main Street in to basically a one lane street.  Restaurants build little platforms on the street outside the restaurant to put tables.  Kind of cute and really fun on nice nights.  I thought I heard this week that parts of New York City are going to do this.  It's a great way for the restaurants to add tables and gives those who want to eat out an option to eat outside.  

[RocketMan275]

59 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

You sure you aren't in Utah???  Sorry, the "Zion Curtain" comment was too easy for me.  (if you didn't know, Utah had bars put up a partition between customers and bartenders for years.  We called it the Zion Curtain. Bartenders weren't allowed to serve you - you had to have a server take your order, give it to the bartender and have him make the drink and then the server would bring it around to you,.  Fortunately, it was repealed in 2017). 

 

Most bars up here end up shoulder-to-shoulder at the bar.  That's what I don't like.  I guess one of the cons of living in a resort town.  On the other hand, our Main Street has started outdoor dining in the summer.  The City turns Main Street in to basically a one lane street.  Restaurants build little platforms on the street outside the restaurant to put tables.  Kind of cute and really fun on nice nights.  I thought I heard this week that parts of New York City are going to do this.  It's a great way for the restaurants to add tables and gives those who want to eat out an option to eat outside.  

I lived in Utah (Dugway actually) for almost sixteen months.  Nice state.

Is it true that at one time you had to prove you lived in another state to order a mixed drink, ie, out of state license?  Ever have the Polygamy Porter?  Not a great taste but an intriguing slogan "When One Isn't Enough."

 

We love the outdoor dining.  One of our favorite Italian restaurants had tables in the parking lot.  Nice after the sun went down. We have a large covered deck.  We have ceiling fans and a large screen TV on the wall. We have most of our dinners Spring, Summer, Fall, on the deck.