New CDC Order

[BigAl94]

On 7/20/2020 at 12:54 PM, Miaminice said:

 

Not actually... When talking about TUI cruises I was referring to these cruises sailing from and to Germany much earlier - starting 7/24
https://www.tuicruises.com/blauereisen
 

But the one from Malta is the same concept.

 

Doesn't appear to be going very well   https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/07/articles/uncategorized/mein-schiff-1-cruise-reportedly-cancelled-due-to-covid-19/

[Fouremco]

18 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

Doesn't appear to be going very well   https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/07/articles/uncategorized/mein-schiff-1-cruise-reportedly-cancelled-due-to-covid-19/

That's just the type of problem that we don't want to see as cruising restarts. Thank heavens it was caught before sailing; imagine the impact had they had another sick cruise ship.

[hcat]

I think this should be a sep  topic

Not related to CDC Order directly

Sad setback but important  news!

Edited July 22, 2020 by hcat

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

That's just the type of problem that we don't want to see as cruising restarts. Thank heavens it was caught before sailing; imagine the impact had they had another sick cruise ship.

 

I am waiting to see it from a more reputable source before I necessarily believe it....

 

This one says the cruise was delayed because TUI was unable to get the crew on board by deadline due to covid-related travel restrictions:  https://www.cruisemapper.com/news/7688-tui-cruises-cancels-first-blue-cruise-mein-schiff-1

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I am waiting to see it from a more reputable source before I necessarily believe it....

 

This one says the cruise was delayed because TUI was unable to get the crew on board by deadline due to covid-related travel restrictions:  https://www.cruisemapper.com/news/7688-tui-cruises-cancels-first-blue-cruise-mein-schiff-1

LOL. That thought had crossed my mind too, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt on this one. We'll see what future reporting by other sources indicates.

[Miaminice]

18 hours ago, BigAl94 said:

Doesn't appear to be going very well   https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/07/articles/uncategorized/mein-schiff-1-cruise-reportedly-cancelled-due-to-covid-19/

 

So far I have NOT seen any info on a reputable source indicating that a delay was related to a corona case.
And since the media in Germany would chase and hype this kind of news just as much as the media in the US, it would have been all over. 

I have no reason to believe that the actually mentioned cause of delay (immigration delays of crew) is incorrect.
None of the good and reliable sources have mentioned anything else...
 

But even if it had been related to a corona case... all it would show is that in Germany things are strictly controlled and actions are taken - and  boost confidence in the cruises actually sailing. In dynamic situations such as the current one, no cruise line would need to be embarassd about any justified cancelation. On the contrary - it shows the system works. Which after all is why (the otherwise strict) authorities here allow them to sail.

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Miaminice

[BigAl94]

The ship was I suspect fully crewed two weeks ago to allow sufficient quarantine time before the first cruise.

[Miaminice]

40 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

The ship was I suspect fully crewed two weeks ago to allow sufficient quarantine time before the first cruise.

 

I can only put together the pieces of puzzle from different scources...
In one thing all reliable sources are the same: None mention a positive covid test as reason for the delay but problems with immigration/time of quarantee.

 

It seems to me as if they couldn´t prove that ALL listed crew were in quarantine for the required time. So the time has been extended. Since the first cruise of the same ship (Mein Schiff 1) is now scheduled for August 3, so just a few days later, it adds up. Even though I can only piece together the puzzle and speculate how it came to the the delay, one thing is obvious: Had the cause been a positive test of a crew member, the delay would be at least 14 days.

 

Adding that to the reputation of the first mentioned source, doesn´t leave me wondering...
 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Miaminice

[npcl]

17 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I am waiting to see it from a more reputable source before I necessarily believe it....

 

This one says the cruise was delayed because TUI was unable to get the crew on board by deadline due to covid-related travel restrictions:  https://www.cruisemapper.com/news/7688-tui-cruises-cancels-first-blue-cruise-mein-schiff-1

While he does bring up any piece of dirt he can find about cruise lines, they usually do have some basis in fact.  Will see if it gets substantiated from any other source.

Edited July 23, 2020 by npcl

[Miaminice]

7 minutes ago, npcl said:

While he does bring up any piece of dirt he can find about cruise lines, they usually do have some basis in fact.  Will see if it gets substantiated from any other source.

fact is the delay - the stated reason is the known digging for dirt.

[npcl]

2 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

fact is the delay - the stated reason is the known digging for dirt.

Keep in mind that if crew traveling to join the ship do get stopped for positive tests then both statements could be true.  The cruise line canceling dues to delay in crew, and his comments about due to positive cases.

 

A number of times his data has come from crew members.  The best source where that information has often been confirmed has been the Miami news paper, but that is only for events in the US.

[cangelmd]

5 hours ago, BigAl94 said:

The ship was I suspect fully crewed two weeks ago to allow sufficient quarantine time before the first cruise.

This, plus separation of crew members and repeated tests.

The first trips will have to be bubbles, like sports teams here, until you are as certain as you can be that the crew members start out uninfected.

[bEwAbG]

Impossible to have a bubble on a ship because the passengers change every sailing.  The big unknown that no company has addressed is what happens when (not if) the first passenger or crew is diagnosed positive.

[BigAl94]

Further evidence that it is simply too soon to consider restarting cruising https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/07/articles/uncategorized/aida-crew-members-test-positive-for-covid-19/

Edited July 24, 2020 by BigAl94

[Miaminice]

41 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

Further evidence that it is simply too soon to consider restarting cruising https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/07/articles/uncategorized/aida-crew-members-test-positive-for-covid-19/

 

So now it´s Aida... However, this story is more substantial since I have seen it in credible sources in Germany as well.

I don´t come to the same conclusion though. Crew members from Indonesia etc. were flown to Germany. First tests were negative, final test before boarding the ship were positive. Considering the very low numbers in Germany any outside influence can be a problem. Unfortunately that´s the problem with the virus. One rotten apple... 

 

So once they have crew staying under quarantine for long enough to make sure they are virus free, the restart with the restrictions should be fine and back to the inevitable risk level. 

 

I do wonder, however, why Aida didn´t make sure the time was sufficient in the first place. Was it lack of time or cost saving?

Edited July 24, 2020 by Miaminice

[Miaminice]

18 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

Impossible to have a bubble on a ship because the passengers change every sailing.  The big unknown that no company has addressed is what happens when (not if) the first passenger or crew is diagnosed positive.

 

Incorrect! In order to receive the go from the authorities, exactly this issue was discussed and procedures and guidelines were found. Also because of the fear of being stuck on the ship for weeks. You can look at the statements and details of the cruise lines, but in this case they are in German. 

 

What´s correct is the fact that it will happen at some point. No doubt! That´s part of the new normal. And it will be for al long time - even if/when a vaccine is found. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Miaminice

[bEwAbG]

6 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

Incorrect! In order to receive the go from the authorities, exactly this issue was discussed and procedures and guidelines were found. Also because of the fear of being stuck on the ship for weeks. You can look at the statements and details of the cruise lines, but in this case they are in German. 

 

It is impossible to create a closed environment (a bubble) if new people are constantly entering it.  Maybe you mean that the crew all have to test negative before cruising can resume, and they may currently be doing that by creating a closed environment for several weeks, but that's not the bubble I was referencing.  As soon as passengers board, the closed environment has been breached, and the people who were in the closed environment will now be susceptible to whatever is brought on board.  The only way to create a bubble would be to have passengers and crew on lockdown for weeks before the cruise.  As I said, impossible.

[Miaminice]

25 minutes ago, bEwAbG said:

 

It is impossible to create a closed environment (a bubble) if new people are constantly entering it.  Maybe you mean that the crew all have to test negative before cruising can resume, and they may currently be doing that by creating a closed environment for several weeks, but that's not the bubble I was referencing.  As soon as passengers board, the closed environment has been breached, and the people who were in the closed environment will now be susceptible to whatever is brought on board.  The only way to create a bubble would be to have passengers and crew on lockdown for weeks before the cruise.  As I said, impossible.

 

You are quoting the wrong person... I never claimed that creating a bubble is possible!
On the contrary, I agree with you!

My response merely addressed your statement that the possibility of cases has not been addressed. That´s been taken into consideration. And yes, it´s likely going to happen at some point.

All that can be done - and in my opinion for a long time - is to reduce the risk as much as possible.
Even if/when a vaccine is found. It will not be the cure all problem solver. We will have to live with covid and a remaining, probably controllable, risk. Otherwise we would have to hide in a saferoom for a very long time.

In some countries, such as Germany, the risk is brought to a good (not saying non-exiting) level. Low enough for otherwise pretty strict authorities to allow cruises under certain circumstances and restrictions. Will these cruises be a bubble? No! Will there be setbacks? Sure!

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Miaminice

[Miaminice]

Some info on the Aida ship...

 

I just read a statement from the local health department in Rostock.

The infected crew members arrived to Rostock only this week. They were tested negative in their home countries. Despite that German health authorities tested again before they were allowed to board the ship - and tested positive.

 

The good thing: the controls and system worked.

The remaining question: why were they flown to Germany on such short notice?

Edited July 24, 2020 by Miaminice

[BigAl94]

Just read this https://www.argophilia.com/news/tuis-mein-schiff-2-sets-sail-into-wicked-public-relations-storm/226590/

[TeeRick]

41 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

Just read this https://www.argophilia.com/news/tuis-mein-schiff-2-sets-sail-into-wicked-public-relations-storm/226590/

Have no idea who/what agrophilia is or represents.  But count them in the Anti-Cruise category.  We will see a lot of this upcoming.

[BigAl94]

9 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Have no idea who/what agrophilia is or represents.  But count them in the Anti-Cruise category.  We will see a lot of this upcoming.

Argophilia is a travel news site focused on Crete, Greece, and the greater Aegean region. It is not Anti Cruise

[Miaminice]

27 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Have no idea who/what agrophilia is or represents.  But count them in the Anti-Cruise category.  We will see a lot of this upcoming.

My thoughts as well... looked at the website and the article.

The article is very tendentious, downplaying or not even mentioning the precautions taken. The title “sailing into a wicked media storm“ alone says it all.

 

So far I haven’t seen any media storm in any reputable media. Only in media looking for or cooking up a storm. And even there it’s not really a storm.
 

People in the US and some other countries have to keep in mind that some countries in Europe, especially Germany, are way further ahead in fighting corona and reducing the risk. Here in Germany we are talking about spikes and feel uneasy when the number of daily new cases reaches 500 - not 5,000 or 50,000.

 

Bottom line is: there is still a risk, yes. But there will be a risk for a long time in the future. Vaccine or not, we will have to live with the risk of Covid being part of our lives  and take appropriate precautions.

I am not downplaying Covid!!! Not at all! I think it’s a shame how it’s handled in some countries and by some people. I can’t grasp how simple measures reasonable and practicable can be such an issue for some. But I am also saying we will have to learn to live with it, do our best and outmost to reduce the risk and the spread - but not to stop living.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Miaminice

[jg51]

To help relative newcomers to Celebrity Cruises (i.e., since the end of 2011) -- and to bring old-timers up-to-date on some things that may have evaded their notice:

 

Two cruise ships are prominently mentioned in several recent posts, above (and/or in linked articles) -- Mein Schiff 1 and Mein Schiff 2.   These are ships managed by the German cruise line, "TUI Cruises," which is partially owned by the Royal Caribbean Group.  As may surprise some Celebrity old-timers -- they are newly built ships (2018 and 2019, respectively).

 

The new "Mein Schiff 1" and "Mein Schiff 2" replaced a pair of sister ships that used to have the same names -- and those two old ships used to be part of the Celebrity fleet!  Here is a quick breakdown of the old ships' histories, from their building to the present:

 

FIRST SHIP:

~~~  1996 to 2009: (Celebrity) Galaxy

~~~  2010 to 2018: Mein Schiff [then Mein Schiff 1]

~~~  2018 to present: Marella Explorer (in fleet of Thomson Cruises [of Great Britain]) ...

~~~ [According to one online site, Thomson is hoping to resume use of this ship for Mediterranean cruising in October.]

 

SECOND SHIP:

~~~ 1997 to 2011: (Celebrity) Mercury

~~~ 2011 to 2019: (Mein Schiff 2)

~~~ 2020: (renamed Mein Schiff Herz [German for My Ship Heart]) ...

~~~ [Although it is difficult to know if current, online information (July 26 PM) is accurate, this ship is allegedly about nine days into a 14-night, one-way cruise -- originally intended to be from Valletta, Malta, to Malaga, Spain.  Other online info places the ship's current location as "approaching Tenerife, Canary Islands" -- which would indicate that it is way off course from its itinerary!  Someone will undoubtedly clarify this little mystery soon.  (We hope that the "Herz" did not begin to have medical problems, causing it to be unable to land, as planned, at Sete, France (July 26), Barcelona, Spain (July 27), Ibiza, Balearic Islands (July 28), Alicante, Spain (July 29), and Malaga, Spain (July 31).]

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by jg51

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

2 hours ago, Miaminice said:

My thoughts as well... looked at the website and the article.

The article is very tendentious, downplaying or not even mentioning the precautions taken. The title “sailing into a wicked media storm“ alone says it all.

 

So far I haven’t seen any media storm in any reputable media. Only in media looking for or cooking up a storm. And even there it’s not really a storm.
 

People in the US and some other countries have to keep in mind that some countries in Europe, especially Germany, are way further ahead in fighting corona and reducing the risk. Here in Germany we are talking about spikes and feel uneasy when the number of daily new cases reaches 500 - not 5,000 or 50,000.

 

Bottom line is: there is still a risk, yes. But there will be a risk for a long time in the future. Vaccine or not, we will have to live with the risk of Covid being part of our lives  and take appropriate precautions.

I am not downplaying Covid!!! Not at all! I think it’s a shame how it’s handled in some countries and by some people. I can’t grasp how simple measures reasonable and practicable can be such an issue for some. But I am also saying we will have to learn to live with it, do our best and outmost to reduce the risk and the spread - but not to stop living.

 

AMEN!