Healthy Sail Panel Recommendations

[Vacationdreamer<><]

On 9/21/2020 at 10:44 AM, PelicanBill said:

Rochester NY

? in Penfield, NY (Roch suburb) the Urgent Care has same day results. DH’s employer has sent many people there. 

[DrBanjo]

I read the whole report.  Other cruise critics already have mentioned the problem of obtaining documentation of Negative COVID-19 diagnostic tests within the required timeframe before embarkation.   I would like to add that implementation of the proposed recommendations should be accompanied by NCL substantially revising its business model.  Most NCL-sponsored shore excursions are too expensive, and denying passengers to depart from the ship in any port unless they are participating in a ship-sponsored excursion will drive cruisers away from NCL.  Please consider the business model of Viking Ocean Cruises, in which the cruise payment includes certain shore excursions in every port visited, plus beer and wine at all lunches and dinners, and entertainment - - no "nickel and dining" for cruise essentials.   I booked a NCL Pride of America Hawaii cruise for January, 2021, and I may have to cancel if I am required to pay additional amounts for required shore excursions.

 

[njhorseman]

41 minutes ago, DrBanjo said:

I read the whole report.  Other cruise critics already have mentioned the problem of obtaining documentation of Negative COVID-19 diagnostic tests within the required timeframe before embarkation.   I would like to add that implementation of the proposed recommendations should be accompanied by NCL substantially revising its business model.  Most NCL-sponsored shore excursions are too expensive, and denying passengers to depart from the ship in any port unless they are participating in a ship-sponsored excursion will drive cruisers away from NCL.  Please consider the business model of Viking Ocean Cruises, in which the cruise payment includes certain shore excursions in every port visited, plus beer and wine at all lunches and dinners, and entertainment - - no "nickel and dining" for cruise essentials.   I booked a NCL Pride of America Hawaii cruise for January, 2021, and I may have to cancel if I am required to pay additional amounts for required shore excursions.

 

Saying that you may have to cancel if you're required to pay additional amounts for required shore excursions ignores the fact that  you're also paying for the so-called "included" shore excursions and alcoholic beverages on all-inclusive lines like Viking Ocean. Your cruise fare is substantially higher on Viking than it would be without those items being included.

That's why I prefer the ala carte model...it's anything but "nickel and dime", which is about the most ignorant term about cruising in existence. I only have to pay for what I want...not for the things that I don't want. I drink very little alcohol...at most a glass of wine with dinner or the occasional beer. Why should I pay for the people that are heavy alcohol consumers? And why should I pay for excursions in every port when I may not want to take them? I'll pay for just the excursions I want to take, thank you.

Edited September 22, 2020 by njhorseman

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, DrBanjo said:

I read the whole report.  Other cruise critics already have mentioned the problem of obtaining documentation of Negative COVID-19 diagnostic tests within the required timeframe before embarkation.   I would like to add that implementation of the proposed recommendations should be accompanied by NCL substantially revising its business model.  Most NCL-sponsored shore excursions are too expensive, and denying passengers to depart from the ship in any port unless they are participating in a ship-sponsored excursion will drive cruisers away from NCL.  Please consider the business model of Viking Ocean Cruises, in which the cruise payment includes certain shore excursions in every port visited, plus beer and wine at all lunches and dinners, and entertainment - - no "nickel and dining" for cruise essentials.   I booked a NCL Pride of America Hawaii cruise for January, 2021, and I may have to cancel if I am required to pay additional amounts for required shore excursions.

 

I personally like the MSC model better. Since they are requiring passengers to go on only cruise line-sponsored excursions, they are packaging them at 100 Euros for 3 excursions, and all classes on their ships get at least one excursion complimentary. I would prefer that model to upping the price of the whole cruise to make the excursions "free." Just my $0.02.

[DrBanjo]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

I personally like the MSC model better. Since they are requiring passengers to go on only cruise line-sponsored excursions, they are packaging them at 100 Euros for 3 excursions, and all classes on their ships get at least one excursion complimentary. I would prefer that model to upping the price of the whole cruise to make the excursions "free." Just my $0.02.

Excellent suggestion, DCGuy64!  I like this proposal very much.   Viking cruises aren't cheap, but my wife and I consider them to be a good value for our tastes.

[DCGuy64]

10 minutes ago, DrBanjo said:

Excellent suggestion, DCGuy64!  I like this proposal very much.   Viking cruises aren't cheap, but my wife and I consider them to be a good value for our tastes.

Thank you! We would love to sail with Viking. I was just chatting with my dad about this on Saturday and he wants to do one of their river cruises. They look absolutely splendid. Thanks again.

[BermudaBound2014]

The availability of rapid turn around tests is going to increase greatly in the next few months. Hawaii is finally allowing visitors to arrive without quarantining if they have a negative covid test within 72 hours. They have made a partnership with CVS and Walgreens. This is all very new (announced just a few days ago) so the details from CVS and Walgreens aren't available yet, but I expect them in the next few weeks. It's going to make testing infinitely easier.

[hhalliv]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The availability of rapid turn around tests is going to increase greatly in the next few months. Hawaii is finally allowing visitors to arrive without quarantining if they have a negative covid test within 72 hours. They have made a partnership with CVS and Walgreens. This is all very new (announced just a few days ago) so the details from CVS and Walgreens aren't available yet, but I expect them in the next few weeks. It's going to make testing infinitely easier.

This actually made me think about a potential coordination (or “Partnership” if you will) between the cruise lines and the major testing companies out there.

 

Many workplaces require testing (such as mine) and they essentially give the employee a sheet that they bring to a testing center, scan, and get the test. The results are then sent to the employee, but also notifies the employer of any positive results.

 

It would probably take a significant amount of time to stand up a system like this, but I don’t see any impediment to cruise lines doing something similar. Include some directions in the cruise documents, dictate when the testing needs to be done, and the passenger and cruise lines get the results digitally to cut down on the time required to get proof of the results.

 

I’m just thinking in principle, I am in no way a software, logistical, or health expert!

[GA Dave]

4 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The availability of rapid turn around tests is going to increase greatly in the next few months. Hawaii is finally allowing visitors to arrive without quarantining if they have a negative covid test within 72 hours. They have made a partnership with CVS and Walgreens. This is all very new (announced just a few days ago) so the details from CVS and Walgreens aren't available yet, but I expect them in the next few weeks. It's going to make testing infinitely easier.

My son had to be tested a few weeks ago in Kansas City because an employee at his company tested positive.  He went to his local Walgreens and had the result emailed to him in one hour.

Also, they mentioned during one of the college football games this past weekend that the University of Illinois is testing every student, faculty member and staff member twice a week.  They said there are over 18,000 people being tested there.

[boatseller]

22 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

People will notice the M item that requires wearing a face covering.  We won't cruise as long as that is in effect.

The one thing I noticed in The Guiding Principles was any mention about ensuring the cruise is an enjoyable experience.  It would seem that should be at least as important as the other Principles if one wants people to resume cruising.

That last thing a self-absorbed Government bureaucracy wants to hear about is good quality of life.  That would mean people are ignoring their rules. :)

 

The most bothersome situation will be face coverings in the theater, even with distancing.  The open decks will be re-configured to allow more comfortable capacity which is where I suspect most cruisers will stay to avoid face coverings.  I'm going to really enjoy those 3 hour meals.  ;)

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, boatseller said:

That last thing a self-absorbed Government bureaucracy wants to hear about is good quality of life.  That would mean people are ignoring their rules. 🙂

 

The most bothersome situation will be face coverings in the theater, even with distancing.  The open decks will be re-configured to allow more comfortable capacity which is where I suspect most cruisers will stay to avoid face coverings.  I'm going to really enjoy those 3 hour meals.  😉

Those government employees are not tasked with quality of life.  They're only concern is minimizing health risks.

It will be interesting watching reactions when two groups approach each other in the hallways or when boarding the elevators.  

[oteixeira]

11 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Those government employees are not tasked with quality of life.  They're only concern is minimizing health risks.

It will be interesting watching reactions when two groups approach each other in the hallways or when boarding the elevators.  

That is a fair question.  What do you do if someone comes down the same aisle as you in the grocery store?  How about if someone walks by a table you are seated at?  I am guessing it would be the same reaction.  Remember neither of these situations, nor walking by someone on a deck or getting in an elevator would cross the threshold of 15 minutes of contact that seems to be one thing the CDC agrees it takes for people to get CV19.  

[PelicanBill]

22 hours ago, Vacationdreamer<>< said:

? in Penfield, NY (Roch suburb) the Urgent Care has same day results. DH’s employer has sent many people there. 

 

"Sent by employer"... sounds like sent with symptoms.  At this time Penfield's UR Urgent Care screens for symptoms and won't test unless they deem you might have Covid.  Not sure about the other Urgent Care but all sites except the one state site at MCC, as listed in the finder,  still say screening required.

[PelicanBill]

So to be clear, I called UR medicine, the biggest area provider of urgent care and primary care offices, and they are very clear:  If you are not sick, you may only go to the state testing facilities to be tested.  That's one site here, MF only, appointments required typically 2 business days out, test results another 2-5 days.

 

This won't work for all the travel requirements and NY State has got to get up to speed!

[Vacationdreamer<><]

18 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

 

"Sent by employer"... sounds like sent with symptoms.  At this time Penfield's UR Urgent Care screens for symptoms and won't test unless they deem you might have Covid.  Not sure about the other Urgent Care but all sites except the one state site at MCC, as listed in the finder,  still say screening required.

 

My best bet is choosing words.  In the case of coworkers sent, it was because of potential exposure, not because symptomatic.  At one point about a month ago, said employer had three people out d/t positives and 22 others out because employer was concerned about exposure.

My real point was that the results were super fast.  ♥

[Lupush]

I think cruising will reopen similarly to how the theme parks down here in Florida have opened.  Ships will be limited service, some venues will be closed, and I think the target market initially will be locals in close driving distance to the port (Miami, Orlando, NOLA, etc.).

[Vacationdreamer<><]

My only, only, only concern about opening up cruising is the original concern that was used to employ a lock down in the first place:  to not overwhelm healthcare capacity.  I can see where a ship would quickly become overwhelmed if people were dreadfully sick.  It would be particularly concerning if it were staff members becoming drastically ill.

 

Otherwise, I have zero personal concerns about traveling and coronavirus, or about the virus on its own.  

 

 

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, oteixeira said:

That is a fair question.  What do you do if someone comes down the same aisle as you in the grocery store?  How about if someone walks by a table you are seated at?  I am guessing it would be the same reaction.  Remember neither of these situations, nor walking by someone on a deck or getting in an elevator would cross the threshold of 15 minutes of contact that seems to be one thing the CDC agrees it takes for people to get CV19.  

The CDC has stated that merely walking past someone is not going to transmit the Rona...you need to be in close contact for more than 20-30 minutes...and by close contact, they mean close.  

[PelicanBill]

33 minutes ago, Vacationdreamer<>< said:

 

My best bet is choosing words.  In the case of coworkers sent, it was because of potential exposure, not because symptomatic.  At one point about a month ago, said employer had three people out d/t positives and 22 others out because employer was concerned about exposure.

My real point was that the results were super fast.  ♥

Thanks. Yes exposure and contact tracing are valid testing reasons.  Testing results have improved here, and you can get in same day when you have a reason to be tested.

 

My concern is discretionary testing required to travel.  We aren't ready.

[GA Dave]

4 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

Thanks. Yes exposure and contact tracing are valid testing reasons.  Testing results have improved here, and you can get in same day when you have a reason to be tested.

 

My concern is discretionary testing required to travel.  We aren't ready.

That is really sad Bill.  As a native NYer, and with most of my family still living there, it boggles my mind that the first state to be hit hard by this thing way back in March still does not have open testing like we have had in GA for a couple of months.  If I wanted to, I could drive down to the civic center in Savannah every week and get tested just because.  No charge.  Results in 24-36 hours.

[latserrof]

35 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

The CDC has stated that merely walking past someone is not going to transmit the Rona...you need to be in close contact for more than 20-30 minutes...and by close contact, they mean close.  

Completely untrue. You can get it from someone coughing or sneezing as you pass. But they can't contact-trace everyone you pass, so the CDC's metric for contact tracing is 6-ft./15 minutes.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/2019-ncov-factsheet.pdf

Edited September 23, 2020 by latserrof

[Vacationdreamer<><]

31 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

My concern is discretionary testing required to travel.  We aren't ready.

Yes. Agreed. I don’t mean to sound argumentative. Just that we have some decent options for urgent (non-travel related) needs.  
 

I’m not a fan of testing just to test TBH. Still mulling over a lot of these details. 

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, oteixeira said:

That is a fair question.  What do you do if someone comes down the same aisle as you in the grocery store?  How about if someone walks by a table you are seated at?  I am guessing it would be the same reaction.  Remember neither of these situations, nor walking by someone on a deck or getting in an elevator would cross the threshold of 15 minutes of contact that seems to be one thing the CDC agrees it takes for people to get CV19.  

If I encounter someone in an aisle at the grocery store, I just ignore them and keep walking.  I love the look they get when they encounter someone and then realize they need to go change their depends.

 

Is that CDC guidance to wear a mask if in a poorly ventilated space with a confirmed case for at least 15 minutes still in effect?  It now seems,  it's wear a mask at all times.   I particularly enjoy those driving their cars while wearing a mask.

 

BTW, my local walmart's have removed the one way signage on the aisles in their stores.  Just part of a continued relaxation of these protocols.

[BermudaBound2014]

15 hours ago, hhalliv said:

This actually made me think about a potential coordination (or “Partnership” if you will) between the cruise lines and the major testing companies out there.

 

That is exactly what Hawaii has done. Formed a partnership to allow for testing for travel. Right now, plenty of people can get tested if they have symptoms, if their employeer requests, if they have a script from a Dr., but in Michigan it is very difficult to get tested for the purpose of  travel. 

 

15 hours ago, GA Dave said:

My son had to be tested a few weeks ago in Kansas City because an employee at his company tested positive.  He went to his local Walgreens and had the result emailed to him in one hour.

Also, they mentioned during one of the college football games this past weekend that the University of Illinois is testing every student, faculty member and staff member twice a week.  They said there are over 18,000 people being tested there.

 

Yes, there are are many people getting tested and things are starting to open up to make testing more easily accessible. Unfortunately, not all states are in the same position. In Michigan, you still can not get tested without symptoms, possible exposure, employer request, or Dr. Script. Testing for the purpose of travel is currently very challenging. I suspect more and more states will become like the University of Illinois. Things are going to get better quickly. 

[PelicanBill]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

If I encounter someone in an aisle at the grocery store, I just ignore them and keep walking.  I love the look they get when they encounter someone and then realize they need to go change their depends.

 

Is that CDC guidance to wear a mask if in a poorly ventilated space with a confirmed case for at least 15 minutes still in effect?  It now seems,  it's wear a mask at all times.   I particularly enjoy those driving their cars while wearing a mask.

 

BTW, my local walmart's have removed the one way signage on the aisles in their stores.  Just part of a continued relaxation of these protocols.

 

I also laugh at those wearing masks while driving or even walking down the roadside with no people anywhere in sight!  

But stores are in catch-22 with people ignoring rules and not wearing masks still. And they tell employees not to provoke a confrontation for their safety. 

 

My hope for cruising is they are at least as strict with masks as they are at ensuring you pay your bill.  And they don't use the same enforcement strategy as they do with poolside chair use!

 

(A vaccine and end to mask wearing is even better.)