Oh Canada! We really miss you

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, Wonderingabout said:

It is amazing how everybody knows the truth about how to approach the Virus and and how different the truth is depending on the person.

 

Back in March, people were mostly together on this issue. But somewhere along the way, it was made in to an topic that quickly divided people. 

 

A great metaphor that's trending on social media now, although it's been around for a while, is the "who is shaking the jar" parable regarding a jar full of red and black ants.  If you haven't seen it, look it up.  In my opinion, it perfectly describes many of today's issues.   

[Mary229]

56 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Back in March, people were mostly together on this issue. But somewhere along the way, it was made in to an topic that quickly divided people. 

 

A great metaphor that's trending on social media now, although it's been around for a while, is the "who is shaking the jar" parable regarding a jar full of red and black ants.  If you haven't seen it, look it up.  In my opinion, it perfectly describes many of today's issues.   

We were in March relying on the experience of others, we now have much more universal and personal data to draw from.  

[ABoatNerd]

A great rule - believe nothing and question everything. And question a lot and require evidence, not talk and orders, but solid evidence over a reasonable period of time.

 

Married to a PHD scientist and not impressed with the so called experts. There is a wealth of information out there, many, many on CC have great information like TeeRick and Hlinter and others, great information and past experience and they are so very gracious to share it with us, thanks to you all.

 

We believe there is a variety of agendas out there that impact the "orders" that we in Canada and the great USA are given. 

 

Bottom line - use our democracy or lose it. Just like the cruise lines will have to navigate the varied messaging and rules - but their world is clear - make $ no matter what it takes.

 

Time is precious and it is slipping away. Would like to take a cruise, but the reality is very challenging for the cruise lines. So in the interim, moving on to land vacations and like wow, looking forward to it.

 

[ABoatNerd]

9 hours ago, KirkNC said:

And those of you who choose to engage in riskier behavior are free to do so.  Just understand it is people like you that keep the virus alive and spreading.  I also remind you of the risk you share with the first responders when you do get sick.  

 

Hi KirkNC, please explain how me going to Hilton Head is any riskier than the European folks that have been on the cruise ships operating in Europe.

Waiting and thank you.

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, ABoatNerd said:

 

Hi KirkNC, please explain how me going to Hilton Head is any riskier than the European folks that have been on the cruise ships operating in Europe.

Waiting and thank you.

It’s not any different which is why one MSC ship has had eight cases on board and had to cancel future bookings.  Until social interaction is safe, cruising is not.  Flying, eating indoors in restaurants, going to bars are all considered higher risk activities.  

[Nghthawke]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:07 PM, rkacruiser said:

As a retired science educator, I am embarrassed to agree with you.  In the years beginning in the late 1990's--maybe earlier-- . . .

I will gladly take any vaccine out there but I'm from that generation that grew up when there were no measles vaccines, no mumps vaccines, no polio vaccines, etc. My next door neighbour had polio. So did my uncle. I remember my mom taking all of us to get our polio vaccine when I was little. I still remember waiting in line; I must've been only four-years old. I remember parents talking to each other and how happy they were that there was a vaccine available. After that, it was pretty standard, when a new vaccine was available we got it. They were even available in schools, when it was your turn you just lined up to see the nurse, got your shot, and back to the class.

 

Young people today did not grow up with those diseases. They literally have no idea. Sometimes I think the media should interview some us seniors and we could explain what a blessing vaccines have been.

 

This summer, for the first time in decades, I came across someone who had polio. Youth today would think, oh she hurt herself, because they never saw that growing up. For me, it was like an instant flashback to the past -- I knew right away she was limping because of polio.

 

 

[KirkNC]

38 minutes ago, Nghthawke said:

I will gladly take any vaccine out there but I'm from that generation that grew up when there were no measles vaccines, no mumps vaccines, no polio vaccines, etc. My next door neighbour had polio. So did my uncle. I remember my mom taking all of us to get our polio vaccine when I was little. I still remember waiting in line; I must've been only four-years old. I remember parents talking to each other and how happy they were that there was a vaccine available. After that, it was pretty standard, when a new vaccine was available we got it. They were even available in schools, when it was your turn you just lined up to see the nurse, got your shot, and back to the class.

 

Young people today did not grow up with those diseases. They literally have no idea. Sometimes I think the media should interview some us seniors and we could explain what a blessing vaccines have been.

 

This summer, for the first time in decades, I came across someone who had polio. Youth today would think, oh she hurt herself, because they never saw that growing up. For me, it was like an instant flashback to the past -- I knew right away she was limping because of polio.

 

 

Yes, perspective is everything.

[Nghthawke]

47 minutes ago, Nghthawke said:

This summer, for the first time in decades, I came across someone who had polio. Youth today would think, oh she hurt herself, because they never saw that growing up. For me, it was like an instant flashback to the past -- I knew right away she was limping because of polio.

I should've written, someone who had had polio in their youth. The lady is a very old senior now, but still with that distinctive polio limp.

[Mary229]

47 minutes ago, Nghthawke said:

I will gladly take any vaccine out there but I'm from that generation that grew up when there were no measles vaccines, no mumps vaccines, no polio vaccines, etc. My next door neighbour had polio. So did my uncle. I remember my mom taking all of us to get our polio vaccine when I was little. I still remember waiting in line; I must've been only four-years old. I remember parents talking to each other and how happy they were that there was a vaccine available. After that, it was pretty standard, when a new vaccine was available we got it. They were even available in schools, when it was your turn you just lined up to see the nurse, got your shot, and back to the class.

 

Young people today did not grow up with those diseases. They literally have no idea. Sometimes I think the media should interview some us seniors and we could explain what a blessing vaccines have been.

 

This summer, for the first time in decades, I came across someone who had polio. Youth today would think, oh she hurt herself, because they never saw that growing up. For me, it was like an instant flashback to the past -- I knew right away she was limping because of polio.

 

 

I was so close to death from measles I remember Santa Claus coming to my bedside.  I cannot imagine the anguish among the adults as all of my entire extended family surrounded me with love.  A friend was struck down with polio because her parent's were "anti-vaxxers" then they abandoned her to the foster care system.  It is all just too much tragedy that modern naysayers do not understand or refuse to remember.   Simply put vaccines alleviate human suffering

[sail7seas]

19 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

A great rule - believe nothing and question everything. And question a lot and require evidence, not talk and orders, but solid evidence over a reasonable period of time.

 

Married to a PHD scientist and not impressed with the so called experts. There is a wealth of information out there, many, many on CC have great information like TeeRick and Hlinter and others, great information and past experience and they are so very gracious to share it with us, thanks to you all.

 

We believe there is a variety of agendas out there that impact the "orders" that we in Canada and the great USA are given. 

 

Bottom line - use our democracy or lose it. Just like the cruise lines will have to navigate the varied messaging and rules - but their world is clear - make $ no matter what it takes.

 

Time is precious and it is slipping away. Would like to take a cruise, but the reality is very challenging for the cruise lines. So in the interim, moving on to land vacations and like wow, looking forward to it.

 

....  Whew I had been thinking I am getting cynical       but, maybe not quite as much as some are  🙂

     It is easy these days to collapse head first  into  that  trap.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I was so close to death from measles I remember Santa Claus coming to my bedside.  I cannot imagine the anguish among the adults as all of my entire extended family surrounded me with love.  A friend was struck down with polio because her parent's were "anti-vaxxers" then they abandoned her to the foster care system.  It is all just too much tragedy that modern naysayers do not understand or refuse to remember.   Simply put vaccines alleviate human suffering

 

 

I had mumps my junior year in high school and I very clearly remember how sick I was.   in pain, and feeling  oh soooo, miserable.

Edited October 22, 2020 by sail7seas

[kangforpres]

2 hours ago, sail7seas said:

 

 

I had mumps my junior year in high school and I very clearly remember how sick I was.   in pain, and feeling  oh soooo, miserable.

I remember getting to eat all the ice cream I could when I had the mumps but it wasn't a fair trade-off. My father had Polio and was saved when the vaccine came out. 

[david,Mississauga]

On 10/17/2020 at 8:06 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

At this time of year, yes.  Cost wise a trip on VIA Rail's The Canadian, if it was still operating, would attract this Ohioan.  I have unspent Canadian dollars that I would be pleased to contribute to their economy. 

 

What will be the impact be on the economy of those States where the Canadian--and indeed the American snowbirds--fail to arrive?   

 

VIA has announced this week there will be  a partial resumption of the Canadian.  Starting on 11th December it will run once a week and only between Vancouver and Winnipeg. Unfortunately, passengers will not have access to the "Park car" with its dome and two lounges. Although I wouldn't mind flying between Toronto and Winnipeg (I have done this many times before)  the lack of Park car access is not the least appealing. It is unknown how long this reduced service will be in effect, but VIA said it is part of the gradual return to normal service.

[david,Mississauga]

On 10/19/2020 at 2:35 PM, d9704011 said:

Fro Canadian travellers looking for COVID-19 medical coverage try:

 

Medipac

Tour+Med

Blue Cross

Manulife

 

 

Although some insurers are covering COVID-19 issues for international travel, there are exceptions for travel on a cruise.

 

When I first looked at Medipac a few weeks ago there was an exclusion for cruise travel because of the government advisory to avoid cruise travel. Admittedly I don't see that now on a quick perusal of their conditions.

 

Manulife on its FAQ -  Covid-19 Pandemic Travel Insurance Plan says in #10: "This insurance is not available if anything should happen while on or associated with being on a cruise of any kind."

 

Cancellation and trip interruption insurance appears to be impossible to get for any cruise booked after COVID-19 was declared a "known issue" by insurers in March.

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, david,Mississauga said:

Cancellation and trip interruption insurance appears to be impossible to get for any cruise booked after COVID-19 was declared a "known issue" by insurers in March.

That doesn’t surprise me at all.  Honestly, I haven’t looked at travel insurance since March as I have no intention of leaving the country until next September at the earliest.  I have plans for activities in Canada  (except in the Maritimes of course, where I’m still persona non grata).

Edited October 23, 2020 by d9704011

[iancal]

Just found out from Manulife that our group out of country medical does in fact cover covid. It is academic at this point as we we have no desire to travel at the moment.  With the usual ifs ands or buts.  

 

[Roger88]

5 hours ago, david,Mississauga said:

 

Although some insurers are covering COVID-19 issues for international travel, there are exceptions for travel on a cruise.

 

When I first looked at Medipac a few weeks ago there was an exclusion for cruise travel because of the government advisory to avoid cruise travel. Admittedly I don't see that now on a quick perusal of their conditions.

 

Manulife on its FAQ -  Covid-19 Pandemic Travel Insurance Plan says in #10: "This insurance is not available if anything should happen while on or associated with being on a cruise of any kind."

 

Cancellation and trip interruption insurance appears to be impossible to get for any cruise booked after COVID-19 was declared a "known issue" by insurers in March.

Honestly, I am so afraid of going anywhere abroad. Most importantly I dont want to have blood test taken somewhere outside the US and get infected for no reason. Also, I dont want to bother with getting a medical note that I am covid free and stuff, and then lose it and being taken off the plane or a ship.. Goood 

[rkacruiser]

16 hours ago, david,Mississauga said:

 

VIA has announced this week there will be  a partial resumption of the Canadian.  Starting on 11th December it will run once a week and only between Vancouver and Winnipeg. Unfortunately, passengers will not have access to the "Park car" with its dome and two lounges. Although I wouldn't mind flying between Toronto and Winnipeg (I have done this many times before)  the lack of Park car access is not the least appealing. It is unknown how long this reduced service will be in effect, but VIA said it is part of the gradual return to normal service.

 

I am a member of the Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum.  There is a Forum concerning Canadian rail travel among several others.  I read that information there.  I agree with you.  The lack of access to the Park Car would prevent me from making a booking.  Also, I have no interest in anything less than a Vancouver-Toronto journey.  What I have read on AU has raised my interest in trying "The Ocean" out to the Maritimes sometime.  

[kazu]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I am a member of the Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum.  There is a Forum concerning Canadian rail travel among several others.  I read that information there.  I agree with you.  The lack of access to the Park Car would prevent me from making a booking.  Also, I have no interest in anything less than a Vancouver-Toronto journey.  What I have read on AU has raised my interest in trying "The Ocean" out to the Maritimes sometime.  

 

The “Ocean” is a lot of fun with some great scenery.  DH and I have often used it to get to Ontario. 

 

You need a sleeping car on it IMO which we always book but the food is pretty decent and the views can be very, very nice 🙂 

 

I encourage you to try it at some time.  It only goes from Montreal to Halifax or vice versa but there is a good connector to Toronto (or other stops) that zips by.

 

the “Ocean” is special.  Kind of takes you back to the old days of train travel.

We hop on it in Moncton.  

 

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, kazu said:

 

The “Ocean” is a lot of fun with some great scenery.  DH and I have often used it to get to Ontario. 

 

You need a sleeping car on it IMO which we always book but the food is pretty decent and the views can be very, very nice 🙂 

 

I encourage you to try it at some time.  It only goes from Montreal to Halifax or vice versa but there is a good connector to Toronto (or other stops) that zips by.

 

the “Ocean” is special.  Kind of takes you back to the old days of train travel.

We hop on it in Moncton.  

 

 

I appreciate your recommendation.  The decision would be to begin or end in Halifax.  Both cities are so special!  Book a sleeper?  Absolutely!

 

The comments on VIA Rail pre-Covid have consistently been encouraging.  What will the post-Covid era bring? 

[david,Mississauga]

3 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I appreciate your recommendation.  The decision would be to begin or end in Halifax.  Both cities are so special!  Book a sleeper?  Absolutely!

 

The comments on VIA Rail pre-Covid have consistently been encouraging.  What will the post-Covid era bring? 

 

I have travelled on the "Ocean" to and/or from Halifax every year for more years than I can remember.  It was a lovely train and may still be a fairly good train whenever service is restored.

 

The biggest problem facing this train is the lack of a turning loop. Effective the 1st of November the "balloon track" in the container terminal adjacent to the Halifax station will no longer be available to VIA. (That date is no longer important as it may be a long time before the train is restored.) There was a "wye" at WIndsor Jct. about 15 miles from Halifax. The train had been turned there regularly many years ago, but that connection has been removed. The nearest "wye" is at Truro, 64 miles from Halifax. For reasons unknown VIA does not wish to turn the train there. 

 

It is hard to get anything definite from VIA, but from the limited information available the train will be bi-directional, so the locomotives will be moved from one end to the other. It appears the much-loved "Park car" will not be able to be operated. There could be a mid-train dome car but the lower level in those "Skyline cars" lacks the charm and elegance of the Park car.  There will also be a mixture of the old 1954-built Budd sleepers and coaches (many of which are in need of a major refurbishment) and the modern Renaissance cars.

 

 

[david,Mississauga]

23 hours ago, david,Mississauga said:

 

Although some insurers are covering COVID-19 issues for international travel, there are exceptions for travel on a cruise.

 

When I first looked at Medipac a few weeks ago there was an exclusion for cruise travel because of the government advisory to avoid cruise travel. Admittedly I don't see that now on a quick perusal of their conditions.

 

Manulife on its FAQ -  Covid-19 Pandemic Travel Insurance Plan says in #10: "This insurance is not available if anything should happen while on or associated with being on a cruise of any kind."

 

Cancellation and trip interruption insurance appears to be impossible to get for any cruise booked after COVID-19 was declared a "known issue" by insurers in March.

 

Regarding Medipac, a friend copied the previous exclusion of coverage for cruises. The small print regarding exclusions has since been amended to say in #29: "This exclusion does not apply to travel advisories from Global Affairs Canada in response to COVID 19." So it appears this policy now does cover cruises.

[rkacruiser]

On 10/22/2020 at 12:48 PM, Nghthawke said:

Young people today did not grow up with those diseases. They literally have no idea. Sometimes I think the media should interview some us seniors and we could explain what a blessing vaccines have been.

 

There is a proper educational component missing, and has been missing for many years--decades, now, maybe--about the benefit of vaccines.  Not just a benefit for those who receive them, but for society itself.  

 

As a society, regardless of what country in which one lives, how can this ignorance be corrected in the near term? 

 

A "hole has been dug" regarding the importance of health and science education in the United States, at least.  It's a deep one.  How do we get out of "that hole"?  

[Hlitner]

It is interesting (to me) to see the discussion gradually shifting away from whether (or not) there will soon be a vaccine to what will the impact of the so-called "anti-vax" movement have on our society vis-a-vis COVID.  Make no mistake there is a vibrant anti-vax movement here in the USA (and in many other countries) and it is made up of folks of all ages and political ideologies.   At the moment that crowd has gotten a boost from many US Democrats (including the Governor of California) who have completely politicized vaccines.  But that is the reality and we will need to live (or die) with it.

 

So what happens if and when we get a decent vaccine?  In the USA our mores do not allow us to mandate that folks get a vaccine.  However, there is plenty of precedent for certain institutions (healthcare facilities, schools, certain jobs, etc) to require a vaccine as a condition of employment, going to school, etc.  While anti-vaxers are willing to take their chances without a vaccine, the issue becomes acute when it impacts other folks.  And that is what would happen in the travel industry.  Consider a cruise ship with 3000 passengers and one case of COVID.  That one case would adversely impact all the other souls onboard (the ship may well be denied docking rights at numerous ports).  

 

So my strong belief is that, at least initially, the cruise industry will mandate that every passenger show proof of vaccination or a positive antibody test.  Those that want to continue their anti-vax lifestyle will simply have to deal with the restrictions.  I have previously posted that I see an era where travelers will carry a "shot record" along with their Passports (we used to do this with smallpox vaccination certificates).  

 

With a safe/effective vaccine and mandatory compliance I do think that cruising will return to something close to normal (or at least a new normal).  Social distancing will gradually diminish and mask wearing (although now a part of our society) will decline.  Ports will again open up to ships (with a assurance that everyone aboard has been vaccinated or has antibodies) and life will be good :).

 

Hank

[iancal]

I believe that our yellow jacket record booklet of immunizations will be as necessary for international travel as our passports. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by iancal