Cruise Lines pressuring CDC to open cruising by July

[mianmike]

1 hour ago, grandgeezer said:

I live in AZ and they’ve been using one of the parking lots at the Cardinals Stadium from the start and have gotten very efficient at it. It operates 24/7 and the last I heard they do about 9,000 per day. They say they are running short of volunteers, and because of the summer heat on the way, they will drop down to just evenings and early mornings starting, I believe, after next week. They are looking for large indoor options to pick up the slack.

 

My wife and I just went to Cardinals Stadium early Saturday morning.  It was horrible.  Traffic was backed up.  It took us over 3 1/2 hours to get our vaccine.  They obviously booked too many appointments for their capacity.   

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, time4u2go said:

One reason might be to make it available to those that have to work during those two or three days (unless the sites are open late).

Some of the mega centers are open late (0700-1900), what is most important however is that 100% of the vaccines are administered expeditiously 

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, mianmike said:

 

My wife and I just went to Cardinals Stadium early Saturday morning.  It was horrible.  Traffic was backed up.  It took us over 3 1/2 hours to get our vaccine.  They obviously booked too many appointments for their capacity.   

We got our first shot about six weeks ago. We got there about 11:20 pm and was back home, in Surprise at 12:10, at that was having to wait 15 minutes to make sure there was no bad reactions. Normally it’s about a 25 minute drive.

We got our second shot about three weeks ago. We got there about 11:20 am and left the lot about 45 minutes later. A lot busier but not unbearable. I’m sure they weren’t doing 9,000 a day then.

[baldilocks]

Just a note on the 'no vaccine' people. I have talked to some of them and it seems that two main reasons come out for not getting vaccinated. The first is that the vaccine is from the government and it may do harm now or in the future (sterility for one). The second is from very religious people. Although I don't really understand it. God will protect us and if we go, we will Jesus sooner than later.

 

I know that some people have allergies or some condition that prevents them from getting vaccinated.

Any other comments about what you have heard? Be respectful if you reply.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

32 minutes ago, baldilocks said:

Any other comments about what you have heard? Be respectful if you reply.

Agree.  Honest opinions deserve a respectful hearing even if we think they're not factually accurate. 

 

I've seen many conspiracy theories about vaccines on Facebook posts. 

 

The common theme is distrust of scientists, experts and professional reporting.  People say that experts sometimes disagree or make mistakes, as if that means we should forever reject the experts.

 

People see something on Facebook that sounds plausible, and, for them, that's the end of the matter.

 

They watch hours of conspiracy videos about Bill Gates putting microchips in the vaccine, and call it research. But sadly they don't trust main stream reporting and real experts, so they don't get that input.

 

I believe that social media rumors about vaccines and masks have cost thousands of lives already, and might significantly delay herd immunity.

[grandgeezer]

6 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

My wife and I just went to Cardinals Stadium early Saturday morning.  It was horrible.  Traffic was backed up.  It took us over 3 1/2 hours to get our vaccine.  They obviously booked too many appointments for their capacity.   

This was one of the top news stories on tv at 5. It seems like it was the perfect storm. It was shift change, they were having iPad problems (the whole process revolves around them), and there was a problem getting the vaccine from where it is broken down to individual doses to the shot site. The reiterated that worst case scenario should be an hour or so, so they say.

[Etta1213]

11 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I can’t speak for any other states but I can speak for Texas. The mega vaccine centers are able to distribute all the vaccine they are allocated in any given week in about two or three days so there really is no reason for them to do weekend vaccinations. 

Also am in Texas. No appointments needed here, just show up to the civic center, Sat also. I don't know about Sunday. Staggered hours to provide evening access. Working super great.

[DCGuy64]

10 hours ago, baldilocks said:

Just a note on the 'no vaccine' people. I have talked to some of them and it seems that two main reasons come out for not getting vaccinated. The first is that the vaccine is from the government and it may do harm now or in the future (sterility for one). The second is from very religious people. Although I don't really understand it. God will protect us and if we go, we will Jesus sooner than later.

 

I know that some people have allergies or some condition that prevents them from getting vaccinated.

Any other comments about what you have heard? Be respectful if you reply.

I am not an anti-vax person, and I am preregistered to get my vaccination.

But I have a few friends who aren't planning to get the vaccine for religious reasons. I am part of a group of very devout Catholics and one of my friends who is a "no" on the vaccine is a clinical psychologist with a PsyD degree. She is concerned about the possibility of fetal tissue being used and, as a faithful Catholic, feels it is wrong to get the vaccine. (I do not share her view)

I really hope (although it sometimes seems like it's in vain) that we can avoid labeling everyone who doesn't wish to get vaccinated as some kind of slackjawed idiot who hates science. The truth is a lot more nuanced and we would do well to try and avoid pigeonholing those who hold different opinions than we do. Thanks.

[DCGuy64]

16 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

I live in AZ and they’ve been using one of the parking lots at the Cardinals Stadium from the start and have gotten very efficient at it. It operates 24/7 and the last I heard they do about 9,000 per day. They say they are running short of volunteers, and because of the summer heat on the way, they will drop down to just evenings and early mornings starting, I believe, after next week. They are looking for large indoor options to pick up the slack.

I saw my dad last week in Florida and he mentioned that they'd done mass vaccinations at RSW (aka Southwest Florida airport) in Fort Myers. It was apparently very successful.

 

[smokeybandit]

6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

She is concerned about the possibility of fetal tissue being used and, as a faithful Catholic, feels it is wrong to get the vaccine. (I do not share her view)

 

So get the Pfizer or Moderna and any concerns about fetal tissue (warranted or not) should be eased.

[DCGuy64]

Just now, smokeybandit said:

 

So get the Pfizer or Moderna and any concerns about fetal tissue (warranted or not) should be eased.

Like I said, I don't share her view. And she's not on this board. Sorry. (Are you suggesting I tell her that?)

Because I think I was clear that I have no such concerns....

[smokeybandit]

8 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Like I said, I don't share her view. And she's not on this board. Sorry. (Are you suggesting I tell her that?)

Because I think I was clear that I have no such concerns....

No, just saying that the mRNA vaccines have no fetal tissue anywhere in their development lifecycle. 

[boscobeans]

19 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I am not an anti-vax person, and I am preregistered to get my vaccination.

But I have a few friends who aren't planning to get the vaccine for religious reasons. I am part of a group of very devout Catholics and one of my friends who is a "no" on the vaccine is a clinical psychologist with a PsyD degree. She is concerned about the possibility of fetal tissue being used and, as a faithful Catholic, feels it is wrong to get the vaccine. (I do not share her view)

I really hope (although it sometimes seems like it's in vain) that we can avoid labeling everyone who doesn't wish to get vaccinated as some kind of slackjawed idiot who hates science. The truth is a lot more nuanced and we would do well to try and avoid pigeonholing those who hold different opinions than we do. Thanks.

FYI

 

A decades old ruling from the Vatican might be helpful to those with religious questions..

 

Conscience Exemption for Vaccines based on Fetal Tissue from Abortions

 

The only vaccines readily available in the United States for some contagious diseases (e.g., rubella and Hepatitis A) have been manufactured using fetal tissue from induced abortions. This creates a problem of conscience for some Catholic parents.

 

 

The Moral Reflections released by the Pontifical Academy for Life in 2005 have been welcomed by the Catholic Bishops of the United States. Our Secretariat of Pro-Life Activities agrees with the National Catholics Bioethics Center, the Catholic Medical Association, and others that manufacturers should be urged to make alternative vaccines more widely available so that Catholics and others will not face this moral dilemma.

 

In cases where no alternative is currently available, the Academy said that Catholics may licitly accept vaccination for themselves and their children using a vaccine based on tissue from abortion or may refuse the vaccine “if it can be done without causing children, and indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health.” The Academy specifically cited the potential threat to pregnant women and their unborn children from a failure to vaccinate for rubella (German measles).

 

Released, April 2007 Updated, April 2015

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

FYI

 

A decades old ruling from the Vatican might be helpful to those with religious questions..

 

Conscience Exemption for Vaccines based on Fetal Tissue from Abortions

 

The only vaccines readily available in the United States for some contagious diseases (e.g., rubella and Hepatitis A) have been manufactured using fetal tissue from induced abortions. This creates a problem of conscience for some Catholic parents.

 

 

The Moral Reflections released by the Pontifical Academy for Life in 2005 have been welcomed by the Catholic Bishops of the United States. Our Secretariat of Pro-Life Activities agrees with the National Catholics Bioethics Center, the Catholic Medical Association, and others that manufacturers should be urged to make alternative vaccines more widely available so that Catholics and others will not face this moral dilemma.

 

In cases where no alternative is currently available, the Academy said that Catholics may licitly accept vaccination for themselves and their children using a vaccine based on tissue from abortion or may refuse the vaccine “if it can be done without causing children, and indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health.” The Academy specifically cited the potential threat to pregnant women and their unborn children from a failure to vaccinate for rubella (German measles).

 

Released, April 2007 Updated, April 2015

Thanks, I will let my friend know about this. I just had a quick read on this site:

https://www.cacatholic.org/CCC-vaccine-moral-acceptability

And it seems to approve of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, as @smokeybandit alluded to.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by DCGuy64

[BecciBoo]

13 hours ago, baldilocks said:

Just a note on the 'no vaccine' people. I have talked to some of them and it seems that two main reasons come out for not getting vaccinated. The first is that the vaccine is from the government and it may do harm now or in the future (sterility for one). The second is from very religious people. Although I don't really understand it. God will protect us and if we go, we will Jesus sooner than later.

 

I know that some people have allergies or some condition that prevents them from getting vaccinated.

Any other comments about what you have heard? Be respectful if you reply.

Those are just urban myths.  There is no real science to back up these conspiracy theories.  Google Covid Vaccine Myths and you will see.  I've also heard it messes with your DNA, of course I knew that was total bunk.  And that it had embryo cells, another bunch of bunk.  Your first myth is the same.  Check it out.  The new CDC studies show it is 90% effective at preventing you're getting the virus.  That's straight from their web site.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

we can avoid labeling everyone who doesn't wish to get vaccinated as some kind of slackjawed idiot who hates science.

I agree with this.  It's stereotyping to say that every vaccine opponent hates science. 

 

But we should be objective. There are a large number of people on social media who are adamant that they don't trust scientists and experts. 

 

When people say that vaccines contain Bill Gates' microchips, they pigeonhole themselves.  And the information they spread is very dangerous.  We should be kind but firm in opposing this.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

When people say that vaccines contain Bill Gates' microchips, they pigeonhole themselves.  And the information they spread is very dangerous.  We should be kind but firm about opposing this.

Agree 100%. Kind but firm. Alas, the surfeit of information provided by the internet and social media means that every conspiracy theory finds an audience. And trying to hold it back is like trying to stop the ocean, it's pointless. 😞

[DCGuy64]

As an addendum to the above, now that I've had time to reflect on it more, is to be firm but kind with those who spread misinformation or deceptive information. Ex: Saying the vaccinated are still a risk because the vaccines aren't 100% effective. Well, no kidding, NO vaccine is 100% effective, but it does ensure that the vaccinated are a) less likely to get seriously ill and b) extremely unlikely to spread it to others. There are tons of naysayers in our midst who say things like this A LOT. It goes something like this:

No one should cruise until cruising is 100% safe from Covid-19 => No vaccine is 100% effective against Covid-19 => No one should cruise. That's patently absurd. The reality is more like this:

No one should cruise until the risk of contagion is reduced to an acceptable level => All of the current vaccines provide a significant reduction in the likelihood of contagion => Those who even do contract Covid-19 after vaccination aren't likely to get sick or spread it to others => Even those who might contract it can continue to wash their hands, wear masks, and avoid large crowds => Ships will be sanitizing surfaces and staggering cabins to ensure social distancing => Cruising will be safe.

 

But saying "you can still get Covid-19 after a vaccine" is short, pithy, and attractive to people who don't, or won't do any research to find out the truth.

Again, we should be firm, but kind to people who spout half-truths like those.

 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Again, we should be firm, but kind to people who spout half-truths like those.

I agree with your position on the safety of cruising.  My wife and I are booked on the Adventure this summer.

 

But as you note, vaccines are not 100% effective.  So it isn't misinformation to say that you can still get covid after a vaccine, although it clearly isn't the only relevant fact.

 

People differ in (1) how much risk they are willing to take, and (2) how best to reduce the spread of covid.  Cruising skeptics are (usually) focusing on facts or possible outcomes that worry them. We can present other facts that support the safety of cruising, and have a discussion.

 

But it's almost impossible to have a discussion with someone who believes in conspiracy theories. Especially if they rule out any information from scientists or the media.

 

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Alas, the surfeit of information provided by the internet and social media means that every conspiracy theory finds an audience. And trying to hold it back is like trying to stop the ocean, it's pointless. 😞

I like the ocean analogy.

 

This ocean is extremely dangerous, and has probably cost many lives worldwide in the Covid era.

 

It's also in the process of tearing apart our civic culture.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[smokeybandit]

There are people who simply don't want to get it. They aren't anti-vaxxers or have any irrational fears.  They've just been healthy all their lives and trust their own immune systems to keep them safe.

 

I'm in that boat, personally, but I want to go cruising, too, so....

 

 

[dswallow]

16 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

There are people who simply don't want to get it. They aren't anti-vaxxers or have any irrational fears.  They've just been healthy all their lives and trust their own immune systems to keep them safe.

 

I'm in that boat, personally, but I want to go cruising, too, so....

 

 

 

There's merit there, but at the same time because of the far increased potential to spread the infection if you are infected (and presumably don't know it yet, not that you would intentionally walk around knowing you're infected), there's still some significant societal benefit to minimizing the prevalence of such people. Just look how crazy it gets when we discover someone non-vaccinated got measles (Measles Cases and Outbreaks | CDC). Fortunately they tend to only harm others unvaccinated. But don't we still also owe it to those you legitimately cannot be vaccinated currently to keep them as safe as we all can?

[Big_G]

17 hours ago, baldilocks said:

Just a note on the 'no vaccine' people. I have talked to some of them and it seems that two main reasons come out for not getting vaccinated. The first is that the vaccine is from the government and it may do harm now or in the future (sterility for one). The second is from very religious people. Although I don't really understand it. God will protect us and if we go, we will Jesus sooner than later.

 

I know that some people have allergies or some condition that prevents them from getting vaccinated.

Any other comments about what you have heard? Be respectful if you reply.

 

Young adults that have already had COVID may factor into that from what I've heard.

[relaxlynn]

We are concerned about getting the vaccine because of low platelets and headaches from brain bleeds.  Also an existing brain aneurism in me.  It seems that some of the deaths from the vaccine were due to hemorrhaging.  We both had COVID in July.  We love cruising but are leary of the vaccine for these reasons.   idk