CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions

[lyndarra]

8 minutes ago, nocl said:

Hopefully so.  Hope it is quite high, otherwise the reopening could be bumpy. 

 

My wife's cousin in New Zealand is waiting so she can go to Australia and see her grandson (born during the pandemic).

I believe Kiwis can visit Australia but may have to isolate 14 days on return.

https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/new-zealand-safe-travel-zone

Edited March 31, 2021 by lyndarra

[D C]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

Australia is among a number of countries that have had very successful mitigation. Outbreaks there are measured in single digits, not hundreds and thousands. No point in repeating what we all know is needed for excellent mitigation.

 

Australia will vaccinate its population to achieve herd immunity. This is the preferred method since it means far fewer deaths.

 

What is the point of needlessly killing large numbers of people to achieve an alternate "exit" strategy?

What was the exit strategy when Australia and other places went into isolation long before vaccines were ever considered to be a near term possibility and not 3,4,5 years out?  

 

Australia essentially got lucky that a vaccine was developed in short order. In the absence of that luck, what would the long term solution have been? 

 

 

[D C]

1 hour ago, lyndarra said:

From the outset our leaders listened to the science and made decisions accordingly. If we had followed your leader's example there would have been 43000 Australians no longer with us today. Some mistakes were inevitably made early on but were quickly recognised and acted upon.

Nothing fragile about it.Yes, there have been a few spot fires to put out along the way but it is what we chose to do until a vaccine came along. Contact tracing and testing are working extremely well. Vaccinations have been slow to start with due to EU blocking export but we are now manufacturing our own. Our country was not totally shut off to the rest of the world. US film makers have been coming here to make movies, presumably because it was safer than making them over there. Our economy has not fallen in a hole it is growing. Employment is almost back to pre-pandemic levels. We do not have streets filling up with the unemployed and homeless.

Personally, my movements were only restricted in the early phase of the pandemic. And, except for the previously mentioned spot fires, life is pretty much normal. I can go to the movies, theatres and restaurants. I haven't had to wear a mask except for doctor or hospital visits. In three weeks I'll be going to the stage production Hamilton. Where else in the world is it playing?

Sadly, for many, cruising looks like being off the menu for the rest of this year but it will return and there will more of us enjoying it than might have been.

 

 

At what point did the Australian government say "we're isolating until there is a vaccine"?  Very serious question. It certainly wasn't the plan from day 1, was it? 

[markeb]

3 minutes ago, D C said:

At what point did the Australian government say "we're isolating until there is a vaccine"?  Very serious question. It certainly wasn't the plan from day 1, was it? 

I’m not going to speak for Australia, but it could have been. It’s an island. I’ve been in some of their facilities, and they may well have the best biosecurity program in the world. And definitely the best high containment animal research facility I’ve ever seen. They’ve invested heavily in excluding and containing infectious diseases. Probably because they’re an island and a lot of bad things have emerged nearby for decades. It’s just a different mindset. 
 

There are unique aspects to Australia and probably Australians that made the impossible possible. For how long, I don’t know., and I’ll let @lyndarraaddress that. But they’ve been able to reopen things the rest of the world is only dreaming of. 

[broberts]

11 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

In the future.  Definitely not today or next week.

Australia and NZ certainly had an advantage of being islands.  Shutting their borders was not hard.  As to vaccines taking 3-5 years as said by others, history has shown many vaccines developed in under 18 months.  In the age of computers things work much faster.  The time in getting things approved for most medicines is simply the FDA.  They have 90 days to respond to most requests and usually took the entire time.  With Covid responses were promised that same day if possible.  

 

While Australia and New Zealand are excellent examples, Taiwan, Singapore and even South Korea have done good jobs controlling the pandemic.

 

It's not as if the methods are deep dark secrets. Nor are they necessarily draconian. 

[jagoffee]

On 3/29/2021 at 10:04 PM, K.T.B. said:

 

Far more than 5.

 

Carnivals, state and county fairs, sports venues (yes, baseball played, but no fans.  Football had some fans, but no concessions in many arenas.), film industry complete shut down for months (open now), music venues completely shut down (which includes concessions, etc.), theaters (movies just now beginning to open, live theater still closed), convention centers....

 

So that's seven, eight if you want to separate state and county fairs.  The thing is, those that I mentioned affected hundreds of thousands of people.  Just look at a state fair.  All the people who work it, then you have all the food and retail vendors and the people who clean up the area all day every day.  The seven/eight I mentioned affected more people than all the cruise lines in their shut down. It trickled down to hotels losing business, gas stations losing business, restaurants, the food industry, etc., etc.

 

By the way, i didn't do much research.  I knew of those because they all affected me in some way last year, from losing my theater package to losing my 10-game season ticket package for minor league baseball to having to cancel my trip to the Illinois State Fair.

 

Yeah, cruising is big in the news because of the billions of dollars it's lost, but they're far from the only industry to still be shut down.

I do not think any of those items that you listed are totally shut down by the CDC or any Federal mandate across all states.  Like it is for cruising?  Many things are shut down at the state or local level, but I believe those would be state and local decisions.

 

The CDC recommends against a lot of things without totally shutting them down.  For instance they recommend against  non essential travel, but people can still chose to travel.

 

I was just looking to see if they are any similar businesses or activities that have been shut down at the Federal level.

 

The CDC could recommend against cruising world wide and perhaps require a negative test for anyone departing a cruise ship in a U.S. port without a total no sail order.  Just looking for other similar examples.

Edited March 31, 2021 by jagoffee

[nocl]

55 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

I do not think any of those items that you listed are totally shut down by the CDC or any Federal mandate across all states.  Like it is for cruising?  Many things are shut down at the state or local level, but I believe those would be state and local decisions.

 

The CDC recommends against a lot of things without totally shutting them down.  For instance they recommend against  non essential travel, but people can still chose to travel.

 

I was just looking to see if they are any similar businesses or activities that have been shut down at the Federal level.

 

The CDC could recommend against cruising world wide and perhaps require a negative test for anyone departing a cruise ship in a U.S. port without a total no sail order.  Just looking for other similar examples.

That is because inside of the US the Federal Government does not have the power to shutdown businesses or activities if they reside inside of a state.

 

They could, if it decided to be necessary, control or limit interstate  movement.  But have not chosen to do so. As well as international.  The need for a test before flying back to the US is an example.  They could do that for interstate domestic flights as well but chose not to. 

[lyndarra]

4 hours ago, D C said:

At what point did the Australian government say "we're isolating until there is a vaccine"?  Very serious question. It certainly wasn't the plan from day 1, was it? 

I believe the Ruby Princess fiasco probably gave a pretty good indication of the way things were headed when it docked 19/3/20 - borders closed 20/3/20.

Here's a good, easy to follow, timeline.

https://deborahalupton.medium.com/timeline-of-covid-19-in-australia-1f7df6ca5f23

[lyndarra]

4 hours ago, D C said:

What was the exit strategy when Australia and other places went into isolation long before vaccines were ever considered to be a near term possibility and not 3,4,5 years out?  

 

Australia essentially got lucky that a vaccine was developed in short order. In the absence of that luck, what would the long term solution have been? 

 

 

Australia was working on a vaccine but other countries got there first when that happened our government put orders in quite early, although delivery has been the problem. Unlike Canada and other countries we have facilities for producing vaccines which is now happening.

[NMTraveller]

10 hours ago, broberts said:

 

While Australia and New Zealand are excellent examples, Taiwan, Singapore and even South Korea have done good jobs controlling the pandemic.

 

It's not as if the methods are deep dark secrets. Nor are they necessarily draconian. 

I think that some Americans would review the methods as draconian.  We have had the technology for contact tracing on cell phones for many months now.  Yet it is barely used.  Contact tracing apps are optional.

 

Some states have strict rules that are barely enforced.

Edited March 31, 2021 by NMTraveller

[K.T.B.]

12 hours ago, jagoffee said:

I do not think any of those items that you listed are totally shut down by the CDC or any Federal mandate across all states.  Like it is for cruising?  Many things are shut down at the state or local level, but I believe those would be state and local decisions.

 

The CDC recommends against a lot of things without totally shutting them down.  For instance they recommend against  non essential travel, but people can still chose to travel.

 

I was just looking to see if they are any similar businesses or activities that have been shut down at the Federal level.

 

The CDC could recommend against cruising world wide and perhaps require a negative test for anyone departing a cruise ship in a U.S. port without a total no sail order.  Just looking for other similar examples.

 

The question wasn't "what did the CDC shut down", but "name five industries in the US that are totally shut down across all states".  Which is what I answered.

[TeeRick]

LOL.  This thread has gone back and forth and sideways and upside down.  I'm not even sure what the topic is anymore.  I will give an opinion to get back to the original post on the CDC and the No Sail Order being in place until Nov 2021.  Whether we like it or not in the USA that is the current case.  I am thinking the CDC will wait for a few more months of vaccine and COVID infection data points.  Then they could move the needle.  They did just publish on the success of the mRNA vaccines in the real world on lowering transmission.  That is a significant statement of events coming from them and it gives hope that they are evaluating things internally and with HHS as they have recently said.  

 

Your options:  1) no cruising out of the US ports right now so be patient , or 2) if you want to cruise travel to non-CDC regulated cruise homeports.  

 

If you are a US citizen and feel the cruise industry is being singled out or if you are a cruise employee in this country, or you are in a state or industry affected by the CDC shutdown - Write or email or call your members of Congress.   Give them your opinion.  That is much more effective if many of us do that simple step.  More effective than sounding off here anyway.

[NMTraveller]

13 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

LOL.  This thread has gone back and forth and sideways and upside down.  I'm not even sure what the topic is anymore.  I will give an opinion to get back to the original post on the CDC and the No Sail Order being in place until Nov 2021.  Whether we like it or not in the USA that is the current case.  I am thinking the CDC will wait for a few more months of vaccine and COVID infection data points.  Then they could move the needle.  They did just publish on the success of the mRNA vaccines in the real world on lowering transmission.  That is a significant statement of events coming from them and it gives hope that they are evaluating things internally and with HHS as they have recently said.  

 

Your options:  1) no cruising out of the US ports right now so be patient , or 2) if you want to cruise travel to non-CDC regulated cruise homeports.  

 

If you are a US citizen and feel the cruise industry is being singled out or if you are a cruise employee in this country, or you are in a state or industry affected by the CDC shutdown - Write or email or call your members of Congress.   Give them your opinion.  That is much more effective if many of us do that simple step.  More effective than sounding off here anyway.

As all threads do.

 

Anyways the powers that be will likely take another look at this in May after most have been vaccinated.

At that point in time there will be a gigantic wave of people wanting to get back to normal.

[cltnccruisers]

8 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

As all threads do.

 

Anyways the powers that be will likely take another look at this in May after most have been vaccinated.

At that point in time there will be a gigantic wave of people wanting to get back to normal.

Does Dr Walensky know she's one of the "powers that be" yet?  

[NMTraveller]

3 minutes ago, cltnccruisers said:

Does Dr Walensky know she's one of the "powers that be" yet?  

I am not sure.  In reality she is an adisor  The elected officials make the decisions that count.

 

[cltnccruisers]

1 minute ago, NMTraveller said:

I am not sure.  In reality she is an adisor  The elected officials make the decisions that count.

 

In this circumstance she is one heck of a powerful advisor.  Those elected officials will mostly do what they are advised to do.  We shall see.  We have an August ABC cruise then a November Western Caribbean.  Not holding my breath for August, more hopeful about November.  🙂

[NMTraveller]

16 minutes ago, cltnccruisers said:

In this circumstance she is one heck of a powerful advisor.  Those elected officials will mostly do what they are advised to do.  We shall see.  We have an August ABC cruise then a November Western Caribbean.  Not holding my breath for August, more hopeful about November.  🙂

Not really.  If this was the case then they would be doing Covid testing before you get on an airplane for inter state travel.  That was squashed.  

 

Most of the governors in our country have dubious records on following the recommendations.

 

I am triple booked for August.  A European river cruise, Alaska cruise, and USA land vacation.  I have options.

Edited March 31, 2021 by NMTraveller

[D C]

50 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

 

 

If you are a US citizen and feel the cruise industry is being singled out or if you are a cruise employee in this country, or you are in a state or industry affected by the CDC shutdown - Write or email or call your members of Congress.   Give them your opinion.  That is much more effective if many of us do that simple step.  More effective than sounding off here anyway.

Do you have data to support that claim, Rick?  How do we know that the CDC, Congress, and the President aren't ALL checking in here regularly for policy input?  

 

 

🤪

[cltnccruisers]

8 minutes ago, D C said:

Do you have data to support that claim, Rick?  How do we know that the CDC, Congress, and the President aren't ALL checking in here regularly for policy input?  

 

 

🤪

It's not paranoia if they really are watching you.  🙂

[TeeRick]

15 minutes ago, D C said:

Do you have data to support that claim, Rick?  How do we know that the CDC, Congress, and the President aren't ALL checking in here regularly for policy input?  

 

 

🤪

OK very good!  No you got me.  I have no evidence to support this claim.  Not one iota. Never got anywhere writing to Congress either.  It is possible that all of their policy decisions are made after they come here and consult with the likes of us.  That would be smart and a good use of their time anyway.  So just in case:  Joe are you listening?  Kamala did you see my posts?  Rochelle how are you today?  And Anthony thanks for everything so far.  Please let us cruise soon.  Amen.

[cltnccruisers]

31 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Not really.  If this was the case then they would be doing Covid testing before you get on an airplane for inter state travel.  That was squashed.  

 

Most of the governors in our country have dubious records on following the recommendations.

 

I am triple booked for August.  A European river cruise, Alaska cruise, and USA land vacation.  I have options.

We've been looking at land options as well.  In April I have a golf trip with the guys to Myrtle Beach then when I get back my wife, 2 daughters and a couple of their friends go to MB on a wine (or is it whine) trip.  If August doesn't happen we'll use that time to hit Charleston, Hilton Head or Savannah.

[cltnccruisers]

2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

OK very good!  No you got me.  I have no evidence to support this claim.  Not one iota. Never got anywhere writing to Congress either.  It is possible that all of their policy decisions are made after they come here and consult with the likes of us.  That would be smart and a good use of their time anyway.  So just in case:  Joe are you listening?  Kamala did you see my posts?  Rochelle how are you today?  And Anthony thanks for everything so far.  Please let us cruise soon.  Amen.

Could be wrong, Rick, but from DC's emoji that might have been in jest.  I agree with you, though.  I've written my reps 6 or 8 times over the years.  Always got some sort of response and twice actually got results. 

[TeeRick]

24 minutes ago, cltnccruisers said:

Could be wrong, Rick, but from DC's emoji that might have been in jest.  I agree with you, though.  I've written my reps 6 or 8 times over the years.  Always got some sort of response and twice actually got results. 

Oh it was definitely a bit of fun.  No doubt.  So was my response (I hope). 😀

[D C]

54 minutes ago, cltnccruisers said:

Could be wrong, Rick, but from DC's emoji that might have been in jest.  I agree with you, though.  I've written my reps 6 or 8 times over the years.  Always got some sort of response and twice actually got results. 

I get form-letters in return 99.9% of the time.  I'll occasionally respond to those with the salutation being something like "Dear staff member who is actually reading this..."

[cltnccruisers]

17 minutes ago, D C said:

I get form-letters in return 99.9% of the time.  I'll occasionally respond to those with the salutation being something like "Dear staff member who is actually reading this..."

I've gotten a few of those.  But I also got a visit from my state rep in Pa and more recently a phone call from Gov Hogan of Maryland.  Depends on whether you touch a nerve I guess.