CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions

[nocl]

2 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

I was actually wondering if you'd seen anything from Celebrity in the UK, or if this topic had blown up recently across the pond outside of cruise employees. It was a topic for awhile in the US, but hasn't come up much lately. Compulsory immunization was something of an issue in the UK at one time, and I can't recall if it mattered who was compelling.

Would UK law even apply?  I would expect when it comes to the crew it would be maritime law, potentially the law of where the ship is registered. 

[markeb]

Just now, nocl said:

Would UK law even apply?  I would expect when it comes to the crew it would be maritime law, potentially the law of where the ship is registered. 

 

Good question. The cruises were beginning in the UK, only visiting ports in the British Isles (can't remember if they were going to Ireland), and returning to the UK origin. So it could be either or both, depending on UK law and flag state law.

[excitedofharpenden]

21 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Good question. The cruises were beginning in the UK, only visiting ports in the British Isles (can't remember if they were going to Ireland), and returning to the UK origin. So it could be either or both, depending on UK law and flag state law.

They won't go to Southern Ireland (Eire) as that is not part of the UK as they are within the EU. They will go to Northern Ireland though.  No problem. 

 

Phil 

Edited March 29, 2021 by excitedofharpenden

[Gracie115]

38 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Would it be possible for you to provide the link to the article you read that in?

It was the Cruise Critic announcement which said "all over 18 must be vaccinated" I took that to mean everyone, crew and guests. Apparently I am wrong from what others here are finding.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

If Celebrity does start up these cruises they will be from a UK Port (Southampton) and have nothing to do with the CDC.   They would need to satisfy the UK authorities.  I do agree that not mandating vaccinations for the crew is strange and unfortunate.  It would be interesting to hear an explanation from Celebrity.   What makes this even more strange is that all passengers over 18 must be vaccinated!  But not the crew?

 

Celebrity also plans to use their new Apex on cruises out of Athens beginning in June.  Anyone who goes on that new ship will be in for a real treat because it will be skippered by Captain "Demitrius" who is not only an excellent Captain but a very good comedian.   Celebrity does say that the crew on the Apex will all be vaccinated.

 

Hank

Captain D IS quite funny...you have to listen for the wry humour and the quite attractive Greek accent....which he mentions often that he is GRickk.  BTW...the jokes DO get mangled...hahah.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Oceangoer2

[LGW59]

58 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I trust Celebrity to have much more of a clue than some of the posters on this board!

 

Phil 

I trust Celebrity 🙄

[cltnccruisers]

35 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

They won't go to Southern Ireland (Eire) as that is not part of the UK and are within the EU. They will go to Northern Ireland though.  No problem. 

 

Phil 

Is the border between North and South open or closed?

[HMR74]

 

All pro con  play it safe or take risks perspectives aside, this does not look or sound like a CDC director who will easily let cruises sail from US ports, perhaps even after Nov 1 if things are not "right" for her, and might even tighten things for other businesses. And it shows a leader of a major and important adjunct part of the government letting her anger, frustration and emotions take over.

 

Ya might not agree with her, but right now she is calling the balls and strikes.

[LGW59]

5 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

 

All pro con  play it safe or take risks perspectives aside, this does not look or sound like a CDC director who will easily let cruises sail from US ports, perhaps even after Nov 1 if things are not "right" for her, and might even tighten things for other businesses. And it shows a leader of a major and important adjunct part of the government letting her anger, frustration and emotions take over.  I want us all, to get back to the best normal we can but I want it to be safe for ALL, red, blue, R, D, city, rural, EVERYONE.

 

Ya might not agree with her, but right now she is calling the balls and strikes.

And GOOD on her, "emotions take over" 🙄 and all, smart woman, it is not about us wanting to jump on a ship for gosh sakes, there is a much bigger picture.

Edited March 29, 2021 by LGW59

[HMR74]

18 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

And GOOD on her, "emotions take over" 🙄 and all, smart woman, it is not about us wanting to jump on a ship for gosh sakes, there is a much bigger picture.

A leader in that position should not lose control.

 

However, I am saying, for better or for worse, this direction is not going to let ships go into our out of US ports anytime soon so plan accordingly. And Throw in the Nov 1 date might not be assumed to be the last possible starting date just because its out there.

 

By the way, a report out today stated that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are 90% effective.

 

[markeb]

16 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

And GOOD on her, "emotions take over" 🙄 and all, smart woman, it is not about us wanting to jump on a ship for gosh sakes, there is a much bigger picture.

 

If I'd actually treated patients and lost a decent percentage of them, I think my emotions would take over as well. And the best leaders I worked for in 30 years in uniform frequently got emotional. Some of the worst didn't.

 

I guess I now have to find the rest of this to see what else she said.

[HMR74]

another by the way:

 

I think the cruise lines are acutely aware of what can happen if they are not prepared adequately, and they will do as good a job as possible The problem is they cannot guarantee perfection.

 

If there is zero tolerance from the CDC, which some people want, we will not have to worry about cruising out of the US. On the other hand, we cannot be reckless. The answer is somewhere in between.

Now I will wait for those folks regularly disagreeing with me to respond.

 

[LGW59]

11 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

If I'd actually treated patients and lost a decent percentage of them, I think my emotions would take over as well. And the best leaders I worked for in 30 years in uniform frequently got emotional. Some of the worst didn't.

 

I guess I now have to find the rest of this to see what else she said.

Thanks, well said, and thanks for your service as well!!

[markeb]

5 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

another by the way:

 

I think the cruise lines are acutely aware of what can happen if they are not prepared adequately, and they will do as good a job as possible The problem is they cannot guarantee perfection.

 

If there is zero tolerance from the CDC, which some people want, we will not have to worry about cruising out of the US. On the other hand, we cannot be reckless. The answer is somewhere in between.

Now I will wait for those folks regularly disagreeing with me to respond.

 

 

The decision to lift the CSO will be at the recommendation, based on health information, epidemiology, etc., of the CDC. It will be made at the White House, and implemented in all probability by keeping, modifying, or revoking the CSO, which will be issued by the CDC since they have the international and interstate quarantine authorities. The President has required coordination on all actions in his travel related Executive Order through the Executive Office Building and the West Wing. If the CDC continues to recommend no non-essential travel, and they include cruising, and everyone accepts that, it'll stay in place. But she's a recommender, not a decision maker on that. Hence her Senate statement that other agencies had input. And the reply to the email that started this mostly factually incorrect thread.

 

Her lane is health. She has a lot of authorities in law and regulation. But the tone of the EO is a public requirement for coordination. The first 100 days priorities were pretty clear, and enabling a leisure activity wasn't one of them. I can't imagine any scenario where there's any change other than facilitating vaccination and steps to minimize transmission announced before May 1st. 

[nocl]

1 minute ago, markeb said:

 

The decision to lift the CSO will be at the recommendation, based on health information, epidemiology, etc., of the CDC. It will be made at the White House, and implemented in all probability by keeping, modifying, or revoking the CSO, which will be issued by the CDC since they have the international and interstate quarantine authorities. The President has required coordination on all actions in his travel related Executive Order through the Executive Office Building and the West Wing. If the CDC continues to recommend no non-essential travel, and they include cruising, and everyone accepts that, it'll stay in place. But she's a recommender, not a decision maker on that. Hence her Senate statement that other agencies had input. And the reply to the email that started this mostly factually incorrect thread.

 

Her lane is health. She has a lot of authorities in law and regulation. But the tone of the EO is a public requirement for coordination. The first 100 days priorities were pretty clear, and enabling a leisure activity wasn't one of them. I can't imagine any scenario where there's any change other than facilitating vaccination and steps to minimize transmission announced before May 1st. 

Also She was also trying to communicate to the people in the states where the CDC has no control, can only recommend, that it is too soon to declare victory.  That we are seeing a, increase even with the number of doses that have been utilized.  As she put it  We are close to accomplishing good things.

[nocl]

31 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

The decision to lift the CSO will be at the recommendation, based on health information, epidemiology, etc., of the CDC. It will be made at the White House, and implemented in all probability by keeping, modifying, or revoking the CSO, which will be issued by the CDC since they have the international and interstate quarantine authorities. The President has required coordination on all actions in his travel related Executive Order through the Executive Office Building and the West Wing. If the CDC continues to recommend no non-essential travel, and they include cruising, and everyone accepts that, it'll stay in place. But she's a recommender, not a decision maker on that. Hence her Senate statement that other agencies had input. And the reply to the email that started this mostly factually incorrect thread.

 

Her lane is health. She has a lot of authorities in law and regulation. But the tone of the EO is a public requirement for coordination. The first 100 days priorities were pretty clear, and enabling a leisure activity wasn't one of them. I can't imagine any scenario where there's any change other than facilitating vaccination and steps to minimize transmission announced before May 1st. 

During the evening news on CNBC tonight they stated that one of the things she was concerned about in addition to more states dropping mask orders, was the number of people traveling and the impact that can have.

[broberts]

If cruises are going to sail with unvaccinated crew and staff (UK) it seems to me there is a serious risk of an early return or possibly extended stay. 

[lyndarra]

1 hour ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Captain D IS quite funny...you have to listen for the wry humour and the quite attractive Greek accent....which he mentions often that he is GRickk.  BTW...the jokes DO get mangled...hahah.

 

 

Like Captain Tasos? He's hilarious.

[Arizona Wildcat]

2 hours ago, HMR74 said:

 

All pro con  play it safe or take risks perspectives aside, this does not look or sound like a CDC director who will easily let cruises sail from US ports, perhaps even after Nov 1 if things are not "right" for her, and might even tighten things for other businesses. And it shows a leader of a major and important adjunct part of the government letting her anger, frustration and emotions take over.

 

Ya might not agree with her, but right now she is calling the balls and strikes.

Actually no.  The CDC reports technically to HHS in turn to the White House.

3 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

They won't go to Southern Ireland (Eire) as that is not part of the UK as they are within the EU. They will go to Northern Ireland though.  No problem. 

 

Phil 

 

[D C]

6 hours ago, nocl said:

The problem is that cruising is not inside of the states.  The small ships that are inside of the states are cruising.

 

There is no single authority with the ability to shutdown businesses across all states.  There are examples of businesses shutdown within states.  One of the ones with the most widespread shutdown orders has been theaters, another is gyms.

 

Let me ask another question name 5 industries that demonstrated an R0 of 10-12 inside of their facility as was demonstrated with COVID on cruise ships in the early days.

Completely pointless question. 

You might as well ask "When the pandemic first started... actually before it was declared a pandemic, back when next to nothing was known about the virus and how it does/doesn't spread, when no controls were in place to protect against spread, where did it spread?" 

 

The 'pointless in every aspect to the world we're in today' answer would be EVERYWHERE. 

[D C]

4 hours ago, HMR74 said:

 

All pro con  play it safe or take risks perspectives aside, this does not look or sound like a CDC director who will easily let cruises sail from US ports, perhaps even after Nov 1 if things are not "right" for her, and might even tighten things for other businesses. And it shows a leader of a major and important adjunct part of the government letting her anger, frustration and emotions take over.

 

Ya might not agree with her, but right now she is calling the balls and strikes.

The reality of the issue is that cruising is one of the very small number of areas where the CDC has direct influence. 

 

They can make a litany of recommendations on everyday life throughout the country that have no meaningful impact whatsoever. Don't travel, don't eat out, don't go to bars, etc, etc, etc.....   all without teeth.  Meaningless other than the power of suggestion. 

 

The CDC essentially has control of borders to prevent the introduction of disease into the US. 

 

With covid being widespread, does cruising present a risk of introducing a disease to the US, increasing the number of cases in the US, and/or taxing the healthcare system in the US if the cruise passengers and crew are fully vaccinated against covid?  It's really that simple. 

 

 

[RoyalC]

4 hours ago, HMR74 said:

another by the way:

 

I think the cruise lines are acutely aware of what can happen if they are not prepared adequately, and they will do as good a job as possible The problem is they cannot guarantee perfection.

 

If there is zero tolerance from the CDC, which some people want, we will not have to worry about cruising out of the US. On the other hand, we cannot be reckless. The answer is somewhere in between.

Now I will wait for those folks regularly disagreeing with me to respond.

 

So the rest of the world opening and planning to open is wrong? Odd how no one here trusts the vaccine, otherwise plans would be in place. 

[RoyalC]

4 hours ago, markeb said:

 

The decision to lift the CSO will be at the recommendation, based on health information, epidemiology, etc., of the CDC. It will be made at the White House, and implemented in all probability by keeping, modifying, or revoking the CSO, which will be issued by the CDC since they have the international and interstate quarantine authorities. The President has required coordination on all actions in his travel related Executive Order through the Executive Office Building and the West Wing. If the CDC continues to recommend no non-essential travel, and they include cruising, and everyone accepts that, it'll stay in place. But she's a recommender, not a decision maker on that. Hence her Senate statement that other agencies had input. And the reply to the email that started this mostly factually incorrect thread.

 

Her lane is health. She has a lot of authorities in law and regulation. But the tone of the EO is a public requirement for coordination. The first 100 days priorities were pretty clear, and enabling a leisure activity wasn't one of them. I can't imagine any scenario where there's any change other than facilitating vaccination and steps to minimize transmission announced before May 1st. 

 

So hotels, beaches, Disney World, Amusement Parks, etc don't count as leisure travel or activities? So 100,000 cruisers with only 10 testing positive is bad- none died? Better odds than land...

[K.T.B.]

18 hours ago, jagoffee said:

For all you knowledgeable people who do a lot more research than others:

 Name five industries in the US that are totally shut down across all states. (Besides cruising)

 

Far more than 5.

 

Carnivals, state and county fairs, sports venues (yes, baseball played, but no fans.  Football had some fans, but no concessions in many arenas.), film industry complete shut down for months (open now), music venues completely shut down (which includes concessions, etc.), theaters (movies just now beginning to open, live theater still closed), convention centers....

 

So that's seven, eight if you want to separate state and county fairs.  The thing is, those that I mentioned affected hundreds of thousands of people.  Just look at a state fair.  All the people who work it, then you have all the food and retail vendors and the people who clean up the area all day every day.  The seven/eight I mentioned affected more people than all the cruise lines in their shut down. It trickled down to hotels losing business, gas stations losing business, restaurants, the food industry, etc., etc.

 

By the way, i didn't do much research.  I knew of those because they all affected me in some way last year, from losing my theater package to losing my 10-game season ticket package for minor league baseball to having to cancel my trip to the Illinois State Fair.

 

Yeah, cruising is big in the news because of the billions of dollars it's lost, but they're far from the only industry to still be shut down.

[markeb]

8 minutes ago, RoyalC said:

 

So hotels, beaches, Disney World, Amusement Parks, etc don't count as leisure travel or activities? So 100,000 cruisers with only 10 testing positive is bad- none died? Better odds than land...

 

They're not international or interstate. There's a 10th Amendment to the Constitution.