Protocols for Unvaccinated Guests on Freedom of the Seas cruises starting July 2

[ReneeFLL]

2 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Serious question. The vaccine was developed and pushed through for emergency reasons to help stop the deaths related to covid. Why would anyone that has already had covid want to get a vaccine to prevent covid? They already have the anti-bodies in their system. Why would they want to take the risk to inject a vaccine that has not had the long term studies and is not fully approved? 

They don’t know how long the antibodies last. From what I read it can be possibly less than 3 months. Many people have had covid and still decided to get the vaccines. Why would they not want to take the vaccine and hopefully avoid some of the horrible continuing illnesses that some have been having? Ask yourself that.

[ReneeFLL]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

We just discussed that fact that vaccine immunity is stronger against the variants. Natural immunity is not as protective against the variants.

He doesn’t get it and probably never will.

[gatorskin76]

6 minutes ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

So using some common sense....

 

If anti-vaxxers continue to resist and cause all sorts of costly things based on their position - every pays and is punished somehow.

 

If pro-vaxxers continue to become the only cruise passengers...POOF...the costs go away and the probability of problems pretty much the same.

 

Option #2 becomes easy to understand and makes the most sense for all cruise passengers, even though in denial.

 

On some level do you understand that you don't have to be an "anti-vaxxer" to have some concern over a new type of vaccine that has been in existence for 15 months at most?  Usually it requires several years of testing before anything gets cleared for mainstream use. Kind of hard to test long term side effects when it's been around a year.  You also can be vaccinated without being a "pro-vaxxers".  I wish the constant effort of creating 2 sides would stop.  There are people in the middle, it's just the people on the fringe that are the loudest.  You are clearly biased by your own interests on this one, so you might need to recuse yourself.

[Thenagers]

5 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

Wrong again. Altering/denying goods or services based upon one’s refusal to present vax verification is a violation of FL. That’s exactly what RCI is doing. Denying certain services to the unvaxxed will be interpreted to be a violation of FL law regardless of where that violation takes place.  Just because someone “told” me something doesn’t make it accurate or fact. Just like when you all told me FL was gonna lose the injunction case. Didn’t make it true, did it?

Actually they are allowing you the same services. They just have restricted areas. This is already in place with suite areas, diamond lounges, adult only areas.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

This isn't hard. Try not to let it be either.  

A loyalty program on any product/service in most cases are earned by the amount of dollars spent. In the new RCG world, an unvaxed P, D+, or D would not have the same loyalty rights and priveleges they once had but the vaxed P, D+, & D would continue the same.  And the only difference between the two is that their concerns over the vsccine and/or their natual immunities are being ignored by RCG. 

 

So it is acceptable that a business separate and treat customers differently for any commercial reason but health and safety?

 

If you want to trumpet a treat no passenger differently message, at least be consistent.

 

1 minute ago, CI66774 said:

Wrong again. Altering/denying goods or services based upon one’s refusal to present vax verification is a violation of FL. That’s exactly what RCI is doing. Denying certain services to the unvaxxed will be interpreted to be a violation of FL law regardless of where that violation takes place.  Just because someone “told” me something doesn’t make it accurate or fact. Just like when you all told me FL was gonna lose the injunction case. Didn’t make it true, did it?

 

So anyone that wishes to take a particular voyage from FL must be allowed to do so, regardless of ship capacity? That is effectively what you are saying.

 

For commercial reasons the business has created areas with different mitigation rules. These venues by their nature have a capacity limit established for reasons of safety. Denying somone in one group or the other because a capacity limit has been reached  does not violate the law.

[3kidsncats]

3 hours ago, Tippyton said:

People keep saying that.  Sentiment is not science.  I'm still looking for the study that says "Had Covid?  You are only XX% protected and have a high likelihood of getting it again".  Have you seen one?  I am open minded and willing to change my perspective.

I shared one with you already. 

[ReneeFLL]

1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Got it. And just like in High School, you must've went along with the 'in' crowd trying to be cool instead of just doing the right thing.

 

Bottomline, you can't produce the data....

Doing the right thing would be to get vaccinated if you want to cruise or wait until later. 

[CRUISEFAN0001]

3 minutes ago, gatorskin76 said:

 

On some level do you understand that you don't have to be an "anti-vaxxer" to have some concern over a new type of vaccine that has been in existence for 15 months at most?  Usually it requires several years of testing before anything gets cleared for mainstream use. Kind of hard to test long term side effects when it's been around a year.  You also can be vaccinated without being a "pro-vaxxers".  I wish the constant effort of creating 2 sides would stop.  There are people in the middle, it's just the people on the fringe that are the loudest.  You are clearly biased by your own interests on this one, so you might need to recuse yourself.

WOW - Florida has Royally (pun) screwed all of this up. It's been publicly stated that economics was driving the state's court case...not "right or wrong".

 

You don't have to work at NASA to understand that you either get the vaccine or you don't - that would clearly point to 2 polar opposite views.

 

The amazing science that went into this historic vaccine development and the speed has NOTHING to do with its legitimacy.  It either works or it doesn't.

 

Again easy to understand and polar opposites.

[broberts]

2 minutes ago, gatorskin76 said:

 

On some level do you understand that you don't have to be an "anti-vaxxer" to have some concern over a new type of vaccine that has been in existence for 15 months at most?  Usually it requires several years of testing before anything gets cleared for mainstream use. Kind of hard to test long term side effects when it's been around a year.  You also can be vaccinated without being a "pro-vaxxers".  I wish the constant effort of creating 2 sides would stop.  There are people in the middle, it's just the people on the fringe that are the loudest.  You are clearly biased by your own interests on this one, so you might need to recuse yourself.

 

I do accept that some may have legitimate concerns about covid vaccines. But the argument that it usually takes years of testing before approval is questionable in this context. Most new vaccines have test data from at best a few hundred thousand subjects. The covid vaccines have data from hundreds of millions of subjects.

 

Admittedly long term effects are still to be  discovered. Every vaccine approved has had this limitation. I am not aware of any established time limit before vaccines can be approved.

[3kidsncats]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Gee. I didn't realize foreign ports are requiring masking. Is that for outdoors too? What about their beaches?

It would depend on the country.  From what we heard reported on the first AOS cruise, Bahamas and Mexico both required masking unless eating at a restaurant.  The beach/pool specific question was less clear, but I assume in the water = no mask.

[gatorskin76]

5 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I do accept that some may have legitimate concerns about covid vaccines. But the argument that it usually takes years of testing before approval is questionable in this context. Most new vaccines have test data from at best a few hundred thousand subjects. The covid vaccines have data from hundreds of millions of subjects.

 

Admittedly long term effects are still to be  discovered. Every vaccine approved has had this limitation. I am not aware of any established time limit before vaccines can be approved.

 

Ok, but that isn't my point.  My point is that you don't have to be an anti-vaxxer to have reasonable concerns.  

[gatorskin76]

8 minutes ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

WOW - Florida has Royally (pun) screwed all of this up. It's been publicly stated that economics was driving the state's court case...not "right or wrong".

 

You don't have to work at NASA to understand that you either get the vaccine or you don't - that would clearly point to 2 polar opposite views.

 

The amazing science that went into this historic vaccine development and the speed has NOTHING to do with its legitimacy.  It either works or it doesn't.

 

Again easy to understand and polar opposites.

 

"anti-vaxxer"

 

You want to make two groups, fine, do you think "anti-vaxxer" is appropriate, I don't, but I am not changing your mind.

[ReneeFLL]

27 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

.....Denying certain services to the unvaxxed will be interpreted to be a violation of FL law regardless of where that violation takes place.....

Will be interpreted? Says you? 🤣🤣🤣

[Goodtime Cruizin]

44 minutes ago, Jenjer said:

As someone who survived covid ( I use survive in its literal meaning I had very bad) and then got vaccinated.  I did it because I never ever want to be that sick again. I never want to call my friends and apologies for maybe exposing them (no one got sick off me masking and distance worked)    I also know I didn't have the newest mutated stands of Covid like delta because it wasn't around here when I got sick. My hope and science has shown it to be true is that the vaccines will help against  these mutations, maybe not as much but at least some. 

 

Also it is  just 2 shots and a couple of days of feeling crappy......worth it    

 

I'm not sure when you got covid and/or your subsequent vaccine. There was alot of unknowns early on regarding natural immunities so getting the vax was probably wise at that time. But today, studies are beginning to show that natural immunities are as good as the vaccine itself. Like you, I'm hoping the vaccines fight of any mutations as I don't have any other help with natutal immunities.  

[Babr]

8 minutes ago, gatorskin76 said:

 

Ok, but that isn't my point.  My point is that you don't have to be an anti-vaxxer to have reasonable concerns.  

Sure, but relying on good information from reliable sources should allay those concerns. It is hard to sort that out these days. We are fortunate to have a large medical center nearby. The researchers and medical experts are often interviewed by local news outlets. That combined with advice from my own doctor made it an easy decision.

 

I hope you find the help you need. Start with your own doc and be honest about what bothers you.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

49 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

Show me a business that has been dragged thru the mud like the cruise lines have. Most businesses don’t have to prove that they can conduct business safely with thousands of people in one location for days on end. Also, what other businesses have been under the thumb of the CDC like the cruise lines???? You can’t even compare what is going on with any other business in the US unless they involve cruises. 🙄

 

Well that's my. point, they shouldn't have to prove anything to a government agency. Only to their cusyomers. If the CDC would get out of their way, they'd figure this out. But jumping through the hoops is crazy and has prevented the industry from starting earlier. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Goodtime Cruizin

[Babr]

55 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

Violation of FL law plain and simple.

Tell me how the Florida law is helping cruise lines restart in a safe manner.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

55 minutes ago, Jenjer said:

Seems like everyone keep forgetting this is a vacation not a basic human right.  Don't like it, don't cruise. Do something else. Let your wallet speak for yourself. 

 

True. A vacation is not a basic human right... but the idea of segregating the public is against every basic human right there is. If you can have a vacation, so can I. So can my neighbor, my Pastot, my Doctor, my Teacher, and so forth. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Goodtime Cruizin

[Goodtime Cruizin]

44 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

They don’t know how long the antibodies last. From what I read it can be possibly less than 3 months. Many people have had covid and still decided to get the vaccines. Why would they not want to take the vaccine and hopefully avoid some of the horrible continuing illnesses that some have been having? Ask yourself that.

 

You have no idea how long your vaccine is going to last either. Zip. Zero. Zilch. And they wouldn't want to take it because they've already HAD COVID. It's like buying two airline tickets for the same flight in case the flight crashes at least you have another seat! LOL

[ljason913]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You are full of hot air OR You will be left at a port somewhere. The cruise lines will not be playing around with this in the short term. 

cruise line is a business... update the cruise contract. If u get covid or any other disease sailing with us that's on u.travel at ur own risk... problem solved. If ur scared of covid stay home and hide 

[ljason913]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You need to keep up with the news. NCL says “no kids” for the time being. No vaccine, No cruise, No exceptions. 

i dont have kids so that sounds amazing to me....what i meant to say..... royal is allowing kids 16 or 12 and under to sail no vaccine so ur dreaming of a 100% everyone vaccinated no cases ever scenario will NEVER happen ... you will have cases 

[ljason913]

3 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Something tells me you cannot refuse testing if that is the protocol that the cruise line is mandating. They won't allow you on board. As for masking, I don't want to mask either and will not cruise is masking is required on the ship for vaxxed people.

why should i be punished by wearing a mask and get tested all day to accommodate the unvaccinated. 

[caniuseit]

1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that between February 2020 and March 2021, there were about 114.6 million total coronavirus infections in the U.S.. That’s about 81.1 million more cases than are confirmed as of June 17.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article252185473.html

This from the article referenced

 

Maybe not the best article to support your opinion 

 

However, studies have found vaccine-derived antibodies are more robust compared to those from natural infection — and the job is done without causing illness or other long-term complications often brought on by the disease. 

Two doctors from Italy compared the process of infection and vaccination in relation to variants to the plot of an action movie.

It “begins with a character (the virus) running freely across the globe, eluding capture until being finally sent to jail (built by natural immunity). However, if this prison is not secure enough, the virus could escape, aided by certain mutations,” Dr. Emanuele Andreano and Dr. Rino Rappuoli of the Monoclonal Antibody Discovery Lab, wrote in Nature. “Vaccine-induced immunity… should help ensure those escape routes are securely closed.”

An April study that has not been peer-reviewed found that two doses of either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines offered 10 times higher levels of antibodies compared to those developed after natural infection. 

Another April paper showed that people who were previously infected with the coronavirus experienced significant boosts in their preexisting antibodies after two doses of the Pfizer vaccine, which also offered protection against coronavirus variants.

Read more here: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article252185473.html#storylink=cpy

[ljason913]

If i am vaccinated i should not have to wear a mask or get tested ever. This is my opinion if you don't agree that's fine you wont change my mind. 

[ljason913]

3 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Kids will not be sailing on NCL as long as they assure 100% vaccinated passengers and crew.

never been on ncl... i dont have kids so i dont care.