Protocols for Unvaccinated Guests on Freedom of the Seas cruises starting July 2

[3kidsncats]

16 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Really? I was not aware of that. Now THAT makes a lot of sense. Covid does cause Myocarditis among lots of other major organ damage.

I was reading an article today about the situation in Brazil, and one of the studies is showing 23% of recovered people have at least one of several different chronic problems — myocarditis, lung damage, psychiatric, and one other that escapes me right now. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by 3kidsncats

[RedIguana]

2 hours ago, Tippyton said:

But why?  What about recovered people?

 

- The Forgotten 20

My wife and daughter are part of the "forgotten 20" They are vaxxed also. Vaccines work against new variants delta and gamma, past infections not so much according to some of the latest studies. 

[ljason913]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

NCL will disagree strongly. 

Is kids and young kids can sail without vaccine 100% is impossible 

[ljason913]

3 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

Um...if they don’t enforce it, on a cruise with enough unvaccinated passengers, they will end up with an outbreak sooner or later, which could put an abrupt halt to the start up.  Maybe it would be better if people could just suck it up and do what needs doing for a change.  The protocols are there for a reason, and if you choose to cruise, then follow the rules.  If you don’t like the rules, you have the option of not cruising.

I will cruise but I won’t be wearing a mask and I will refuse the testing. Happily vaccinated I will not for any reason do mask etc to accommodate unvaccinated people

[I am cruising]

On 6/18/2021 at 9:02 PM, pasodancer said:

Question - our large family traveling party has 1 child (age 4).  All adults are fully vaccinated but the little guy isn't.  Would that mean we would be restricted to only eating in the "unvaccinated dining area" with him, and all of our activities would be limited also?  

Hi 

I contacted Royal Carribean about this and mentioned that both my husband and I are vaccinated but our teen daughter isn't (under 16) and asked if we would not be able to use my time dining and the response was. "My time dining is open to all guests that is a bit of miss information" 

 

there no elaboration but I didn't ask anything else  

[3kidsncats]

36 minutes ago, ljason913 said:

I got the vaccine because I am not selfish but I will not wear a mask and get tested to accommodate selfish unvaccinated people !!! 

I’m going to respond to your two comments in just this one response — I understand you don’t want to wear a mask, and for whatever reason, have a problem with testing.  But since you don’t own the cruise line, I’m assuming, it’s not really going to be your call.  
 

If they require testing to board the ship, and you refuse, you won’t be allowed on.  The US is requiring testing to re-enter after international travel, so I guess you won’t be coming home either if you are booked on a foreign departure cruise. If your departure port requires air travel, you are going to have to wear a mask on the plane, otherwise they either won’t let you board or will escort you off. 
 

Seems like the foreign ports are all requiring masks too — the Bahamas are charging $250 I believe, and up to 30 days in jail for violating the mask rules.  I think Mexico also had some consequences set up.  
 

So if you are going to cruise, or generally travel to foreign countries, you’re going to have to act like an adult and accept the realities of life at the moment.  It’s not all about what we as individuals want — and throwing a tantrum could land you in more trouble than you probably want.

[firefly333]

5 hours ago, ljason913 said:

I will cruise but I won’t be wearing a mask and I will refuse the testing. Happily vaccinated I will not for any reason do mask etc to accommodate unvaccinated people

Why make trouble for the staff? Just follow whatever rules.

 

There are some ports where masks are required like cozumel. I saw it mentioned when adventure was there, and boarding in the terminal. 

 

Some people arent ready to resume  cruises. 

[Tippyton]

8 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

It does indeed, which is why I can’t understand why you are so convinced of your absolute immunity

The immune system goes beyond antibodies.  There are many studies out there about B-cell and T-cell immunity and how they work.  Our immune system is fascinating. 

[Tippyton]

7 hours ago, RedIguana said:

My wife and daughter are part of the "forgotten 20" They are vaxxed also. Vaccines work against new variants delta and gamma, past infections not so much according to some of the latest studies. 

People keep saying that.  Sentiment is not science.  I'm still looking for the study that says "Had Covid?  You are only XX% protected and have a high likelihood of getting it again".  Have you seen one?  I am open minded and willing to change my perspective.

[coffeebean]

8 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

Definitely plays an important part — my argument is not that robust immunity is not possible, my argument is that it doesn’t seem to be as consistent across the population, like some other viruses.  So without each individual being regularly tested, they don’t actually know their own status.  And, studies are indicating that convalescent immunity is not proving as effective against some of the variants.  

Yes, I have heard experts claim that natural immunity is not strong at all against these variants. It is too bad, given that there are those who suffer long term effects of Covid don't even have any benefit of having natural immunity. Vaccination would be of great benefit to those who have had Covid, just for the variant protection it offers. I don't know if the J&J is effective against the variants but I do know the mRNA vaccines are effective according to the expert physicians.

Edited June 20, 2021 by coffeebean

[LXA350]

What a mess, why did RCL even bother to get themselves into this. Would have been easier to just have all cruises open for vaccinated adults, like this everyone on board will receive the same instead of causing this two class sepeeration.

[coffeebean]

7 hours ago, ljason913 said:

Is kids and young kids can sail without vaccine 100% is impossible 

Kids will not be sailing on NCL as long as they assure 100% vaccinated passengers and crew.

Edited June 20, 2021 by coffeebean

[coffeebean]

7 hours ago, ljason913 said:

I will cruise but I won’t be wearing a mask and I will refuse the testing. Happily vaccinated I will not for any reason do mask etc to accommodate unvaccinated people

Something tells me you cannot refuse testing if that is the protocol that the cruise line is mandating. They won't allow you on board. As for masking, I don't want to mask either and will not cruise is masking is required on the ship for vaxxed people.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

9 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

If those that have recovered get the vaccine and show proof I would think it would be good enough.

 

Serious question. The vaccine was developed and pushed through for emergency reasons to help stop the deaths related to covid. Why would anyone that has already had covid want to get a vaccine to prevent covid? They already have the anti-bodies in their system. Why would they want to take the risk to inject a vaccine that has not had the long term studies and is not fully approved? 

[coffeebean]

6 hours ago, I am cruising said:

Hi 

I contacted Royal Carribean about this and mentioned that both my husband and I are vaccinated but our teen daughter isn't (under 16) and asked if we would not be able to use my time dining and the response was. "My time dining is open to all guests that is a bit of miss information" 

 

there no elaboration but I didn't ask anything else  

Hmmm. There seems to be a conflict with what has been in writing by Royal and what this rep told you on the phone. I would tend to believe the written word which is on the Royal website.

[coffeebean]

6 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

I’m going to respond to your two comments in just this one response — I understand you don’t want to wear a mask, and for whatever reason, have a problem with testing.  But since you don’t own the cruise line, I’m assuming, it’s not really going to be your call.  
 

If they require testing to board the ship, and you refuse, you won’t be allowed on.  The US is requiring testing to re-enter after international travel, so I guess you won’t be coming home either if you are booked on a foreign departure cruise. If your departure port requires air travel, you are going to have to wear a mask on the plane, otherwise they either won’t let you board or will escort you off. 
 

Seems like the foreign ports are all requiring masks too — the Bahamas are charging $250 I believe, and up to 30 days in jail for violating the mask rules.  I think Mexico also had some consequences set up.  
 

So if you are going to cruise, or generally travel to foreign countries, you’re going to have to act like an adult and accept the realities of life at the moment.  It’s not all about what we as individuals want — and throwing a tantrum could land you in more trouble than you probably want.

Gee. I didn't realize foreign ports are requiring masking. Is that for outdoors too? What about their beaches?

[Goodtime Cruizin]

8 hours ago, cruisegus said:

These that rave about the "natural immunity" and the un-Vaxer's are the one that are prolonging the problem with this pandemic.

Of course we all know that the scientific data shows that the un-educated and lower income populace are those who are more likely to not get vaccinated. That is just the facts whether you like them or not.

 

More mis-information.  You've been led to believe this mess.

Please show us studies of the scientific data that the natural immune anti-bodies of those that have had covid are not as good or equal to your vaccine.  

[coffeebean]

6 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Serious question. The vaccine was developed and pushed through for emergency reasons to help stop the deaths related to covid. Why would anyone that has already had covid want to get a vaccine to prevent covid? They already have the anti-bodies in their system. Why would they want to take the risk to inject a vaccine that has not had the long term studies and is not fully approved? 

We just discussed that fact that vaccine immunity is stronger against the variants. Natural immunity is not as protective against the variants.

[Tippyton]

9 hours ago, coffeebean said:

But.....what about the immune system's T cells and B cells? They are the memory cells that will begin production of antibodies when the body is invaded once again by a pathogen. I know antibodies don't last forever with natural immunity or vaccine immunity so those "soldiers" are what gives us lasting immunity to a disease. Isn't that correct?

Darn it Bean - we're not supposed to agree.  This is getting out of hand.😜

[Tippyton]

6 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

We just discussed that fact that vaccine immunity is stronger against the variants. Natural immunity is not as protective against the variants.

Not sure that's been demonstrated.  There are some studies/professionals who have said the opposite.  The vaccinated defense targets one aspect of the virus, but natural immunity is more broad.

[Tippyton]

15 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Serious question. The vaccine was developed and pushed through for emergency reasons to help stop the deaths related to covid. Why would anyone that has already had covid want to get a vaccine to prevent covid? They already have the anti-bodies in their system. Why would they want to take the risk to inject a vaccine that has not had the long term studies and is not fully approved? 

Asking the real questions...

 

- The Forgotten 20 ++

[CRUISEFAN0001]

29 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Serious question. The vaccine was developed and pushed through for emergency reasons to help stop the deaths related to covid. Why would anyone that has already had covid want to get a vaccine to prevent covid? They already have the anti-bodies in their system. Why would they want to take the risk to inject a vaccine that has not had the long term studies and is not fully approved? 

Good questions - good answers:

 

1) Just like the vaccine itself...getting Covid before and developing antibodies IS NO GUARANTEE you won't get it - there have been plenty of reports of both situations contracting it.

2) The primary upside is that the odds are quite low someone will either get it at all after the vaccine or having antibodies, and if so....the symptoms are asymptomatic or else far less severe.

3) With tens of millions of doctors and nurses taking the vaccine themselves...given their knowledge...it is highly puzzling (and virtually an excuse) why anyone would question its safety. 

4) Unlike numerous previous vaccines, the Covid vaccines do not introduce any portions of the actual disease itself...rather...it turbocharges your immune system to reject Covid.  I've spoken to literally dozens of people who had no clue this was the case and developed false ideas to avoid getting it.

5) While the vaccine itself drastically reduces the risk of getting Covid, it also reduces the ability to be a "carrier" significantly - which is why many perceive (right or wrong) that those avoiding vaccination are selfish and not caring about anyone else around them.

6) If everyone who is eligible to get the vaccine did so, the whole pandemic situation would be much closer to the end nationwide and worldwide.

7) The statement that it was developed to just address emergency reasons to help stop deaths is simply totally false.

😎 Per #6...many of us would already be cruising again...DUH.

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by CRUISEFAN0001

[Goodtime Cruizin]

41 minutes ago, LXA350 said:

What a mess, why did RCL even bother to get themselves into this. Would have been easier to just have all cruises open for vaccinated adults, like this everyone on board will receive the same instead of causing this two class sepeeration.

 

You get what you ask for. RCL is basically inviting problems onto themseleves. When you take people, define them into two different classes of people, and then by design allow one group of people to be treated better than the other group... you're going to create issues. TBH, I hope this is a complete failure on RCG. It's wrong to do what they are doing and they'll pay a price for it. It's also why most business', if not all business in the US are not doing this. 

[cured]

This may be a total shocker to some, but as soon as science determines what level of titers is acceptable immunity, I totally support providing a lab report drawn a week before any cruise.

 

 A lab report confirming a certain titer level should be accepted.  If businesses and schools can accept titer levels for diseases such as measles, as soon as the science is there, the same should be acceptable for covid.

 

Not only will requiring this get around DeSantis's law (those vaccinated can opt to provide a titer report,) but will also be inclusive of everyone who has antibodies.  And a lab report is just a tiny bit harder to fake than a cardboard card with handwritten scrawled info.

Edited June 20, 2021 by cured

[broberts]

9 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

You get what you ask for. RCL is basically inviting problems onto themseleves. When you take people, define them into two different classes of people, and then by design allow one group of people to be treated better than the other group... you're going to create issues. TBH, I hope this is a complete failure on RCG. It's wrong to do what they are doing and they'll pay a price for it. It's also why most business', if not all business in the US are not doing this. 

 

So you are in favor of eliminating past guest levels and benefits?